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 Lance845 wrote:

 Niiai wrote:
How to arm shrikes?

I am planing on making 9 shrikes that can walk up 2 6 man units of rending claw ravaners. How should I arm them. I was thinking of keeping them cheap.

3 rending claws, 3 bonesword and lash whip, 3 scything talons.
For guns I am unsure. Spinefists are the cheapest (3 points) but they only kick in in the 3rd round of combat, or 2nd if they charge me, witch is not gonne happen.

Devourers are just 1 points more (4) for range 18 s4. Deathspitters are a whipping 8!, really expensive.

The way I see it if anybody should have expensive guns it should probably be the ravaners. Then the opponent has some medium targets, instead of making it easy for him/her to just target the shrikes.

Imputt would be welcome. And perhaps I should arm the ravaners with guns if I am running them with shrikes?

I go bonesword +scytal +fleshhooks on shrikes. Go all out for melee with them. They are fast and fly. They will get where they want to be quickly.

But what guns? They are gone be prime targets for getting shot, so you do not wanne invest to much in them. They are already expensive, but getting assault weapons on them you can shoot aftef you advance.

Edit: Sorry you guys, I did not know that scything tallons where listet under basic bio cannon. Me bad. Scything tallons will make them much cheaper. I stil have to think if I want venom cannons or barbed stranglers on them for some extra reach.

With the unit being around 300 points I also think adrenal glands will be good.

How do I go about filling in the first post? I have stuff to say :-)

You mean the first post of this thread, thereby making a primer? Only the author of the post can do that I believe.

Arkengate wrote:
How do I go about filling in the first post? I have stuff to say :-)

Send a Private Message to the person who created this Thread, they can take your input and publish it on the front page

Yup. send me gak you want added. Right now I am copy pasting to just fill it in. Eventually I will refine general opinions and get it more up to date as we learn more about the army in the general meta.

I would like to make a rating for all Tyranid units like this https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/715040.page
What do you think about that?

 nordsturmking wrote:
I would like to make a rating for all Tyranid units like this https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/715040.page
What do you think about that?

As primer like that is great. I think I have seen one complete in one of the nid threads, and one partial in another. There are 3 nid threads that I have seen. It would be great to gather all the information somewhere.

I have a brood lord from Space Hulk, what size base should he be on? The one on GW's site seems a weird size and shape. It says its 75mm by 42mm? That's pretty odd. Would anyone care if I just put him on a 60mm?

The 'old' broodlord was on a 40mm round base. (The big once that tyranid warriors and resent terminators are on.)

The new brood lord is on 75x42mm Oval base.

Both of those bases could work.

But from an esthetic standpoints I have tryed the Space Hulk broodlord on a 40mm and it does not look good. I am currently looking for a 75x42mm base, but nobody has one spare, and I don't want to buy a box for just the one.

 nordsturmking wrote:
I would like to make a rating for all Tyranid units like this https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/715040.page
What do you think about that?

Make it and I will put it in the op.

I have read a lot of this thread, but 40+ pages is somewhat daunting. What does a competitive Nid list look like nowadays? And is Nidzilla a going thing too?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I have read a lot of this thread, but 40+ pages is somewhat daunting. What does a competitive Nid list look like nowadays? And is Nidzilla a going thing too?

Thats because a lot of players are discussing/comparing single units and about what kind of weapons the should have. But if you are looking for a competitive tyranid list, then you have to look at the synergy of the whole armylist. Decent/cheap shooting in combination with the first turn gives other armies a big advantage and it doesn't matter what kind of weapons you give your carnifex if it get shot before turn 3. A regular tyranid army won't cut it in a competitive setting. To easy to keep the deep striking units outside of reach and not enough shooting compared to other armies. I think my biovore armylist could do well but it involves spamming biovores and not a lot of players like to do that. Not in the same way that other players use 5+ stormravens or 120+ conscripts.

Looking for the best way to walk/fly towards the enemy won't cut it. Tyranids will die that way. It's just target practice.

So I have a handful of Scions and I was thinking of backing them up with GSC/Nids. Probably a min Patrol of GSC so I can get lots of Tyranid things in. What are good back/midfield units that would support deep strikers the best? Scions can drop in and bring the pain with shooting, so maybe Exocrines for long range support and something for midfield?

shogun wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I have read a lot of this thread, but 40+ pages is somewhat daunting. What does a competitive Nid list look like nowadays? And is Nidzilla a going thing too?

Thats because a lot of players are discussing/comparing single units and about what kind of weapons the should have. But if you are looking for a competitive tyranid list, then you have to look at the synergy of the whole armylist. Decent/cheap shooting in combination with the first turn gives other armies a big advantage and it doesn't matter what kind of weapons you give your carnifex if it get shot before turn 3. A regular tyranid army won't cut it in a competitive setting. To easy to keep the deep striking units outside of reach and not enough shooting compared to other armies. I think my biovore armylist could do well but it involves spamming biovores and not a lot of players like to do that. Not in the same way that other players use 5+ stormravens or 120+ conscripts.

Looking for the best way to walk/fly towards the enemy won't cut it. Tyranids will die that way. It's just target practice.

Yea, the AdMech Tactica is way different it seems. Lots of list-focus and not so much unit focus. Though we have a pretty clear line about what is and isn't good with such limited unit choices. 'Nids have a LOT of stuff.

I was hoping to maybe do a big stompy competitive Nidzilla list. So... that isn't doable?

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

shogun wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I have read a lot of this thread, but 40+ pages is somewhat daunting. What does a competitive Nid list look like nowadays? And is Nidzilla a going thing too?

Thats because a lot of players are discussing/comparing single units and about what kind of weapons the should have. But if you are looking for a competitive tyranid list, then you have to look at the synergy of the whole armylist. Decent/cheap shooting in combination with the first turn gives other armies a big advantage and it doesn't matter what kind of weapons you give your carnifex if it get shot before turn 3. A regular tyranid army won't cut it in a competitive setting. To easy to keep the deep striking units outside of reach and not enough shooting compared to other armies. I think my biovore armylist could do well but it involves spamming biovores and not a lot of players like to do that. Not in the same way that other players use 5+ stormravens or 120+ conscripts.

Looking for the best way to walk/fly towards the enemy won't cut it. Tyranids will die that way. It's just target practice.

Yea, the AdMech Tactica is way different it seems. Lots of list-focus and not so much unit focus. Though we have a pretty clear line about what is and isn't good with such limited unit choices. 'Nids have a LOT of stuff.

I was hoping to maybe do a big stompy competitive Nidzilla list. So... that isn't doable?

Sure it is! It depends on the meta, and what you like to run..."pure" Nidzilla is not likely to do well, but a mix can do "OK" The "secret" is having multiple threats. It is just too easy to focus down one or two threats.

I'd suggest...

Swarmlord, Hive Commander makes lots of things work better, and she's a real in CC. A big Brood of Genestealers, and often a Trygon delivery service. Smite spamming (Zoey Broods, Tyrants, Broodlords) spamming Mortals with spores. Any, or all of those can build a good force.

Old one eye, and a Brood of Carnifexen can be real scarey, with support. The main thing is to have a reason for every Brood you toss in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, spitballimg...

Hive Fleet: Generic Bugs

HQ: Swarmlord
HQ: Old one eye

Troops: Stealer Brood, x20 (240)
Troops: Warrior Brood, x3, rending Claws, Deathspittersx2, Barbed Strangler (97)

Elite: Hive guard, x3 Shockers (117)

Heavy: Trygon, Adrenals
Heavy; Carnifex Brood, two sets of Scything, x2 (174)

Basicly you slingshot up the Hive guard, and DS the Trygon, Stealers in the tunnel...that should run about 1148 or so That leaves plenty to fill out acording to you own style of play. Just an example.

em_en_oh_pee wrote:

shogun wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I have read a lot of this thread, but 40+ pages is somewhat daunting. What does a competitive Nid list look like nowadays? And is Nidzilla a going thing too?

Thats because a lot of players are discussing/comparing single units and about what kind of weapons the should have. But if you are looking for a competitive tyranid list, then you have to look at the synergy of the whole armylist. Decent/cheap shooting in combination with the first turn gives other armies a big advantage and it doesn't matter what kind of weapons you give your carnifex if it get shot before turn 3. A regular tyranid army won't cut it in a competitive setting. To easy to keep the deep striking units outside of reach and not enough shooting compared to other armies. I think my biovore armylist could do well but it involves spamming biovores and not a lot of players like to do that. Not in the same way that other players use 5+ stormravens or 120+ conscripts.

Looking for the best way to walk/fly towards the enemy won't cut it. Tyranids will die that way. It's just target practice.

Yea, the AdMech Tactica is way different it seems. Lots of list-focus and not so much unit focus. Though we have a pretty clear line about what is and isn't good with such limited unit choices. 'Nids have a LOT of stuff.

I was hoping to maybe do a big stompy competitive Nidzilla list. So... that isn't doable?

Not if you are looking for a competitive armylist. You could make a 'think outside the box' armylist that could do well against specific competitive armies that runs the risk of meeting its 'rock' to its 'siccors'.

For example:

SPEARHEAD: 1
HQ:Malanthrope
TROOPS: 20 gaunts (10x devourer upgrade)
TROOPS: 3 rippers
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc

SPEARHEAD: 2
HQ:Malanthrope
TROOPS: 20 gaunts (10x devourer upgrade)
TROOPS: 3 rippers
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: Trygon Prime
Heavy support: Trygon Prime

Mawloc spam gives you a great deal for only 100+ points a piece and the mortal wounds are starting to pile up. You can deploy them with the malanthrope and burrow in your own turn and release havoc the next turn. It's a one trick pony but it could work against armies that are not prepared for something like this. I'am not saying it's fantastic but it's a strategy.

pinecone77 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

shogun wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I have read a lot of this thread, but 40+ pages is somewhat daunting. What does a competitive Nid list look like nowadays? And is Nidzilla a going thing too?

Thats because a lot of players are discussing/comparing single units and about what kind of weapons the should have. But if you are looking for a competitive tyranid list, then you have to look at the synergy of the whole armylist. Decent/cheap shooting in combination with the first turn gives other armies a big advantage and it doesn't matter what kind of weapons you give your carnifex if it get shot before turn 3. A regular tyranid army won't cut it in a competitive setting. To easy to keep the deep striking units outside of reach and not enough shooting compared to other armies. I think my biovore armylist could do well but it involves spamming biovores and not a lot of players like to do that. Not in the same way that other players use 5+ stormravens or 120+ conscripts.

Looking for the best way to walk/fly towards the enemy won't cut it. Tyranids will die that way. It's just target practice.

Yea, the AdMech Tactica is way different it seems. Lots of list-focus and not so much unit focus. Though we have a pretty clear line about what is and isn't good with such limited unit choices. 'Nids have a LOT of stuff.

I was hoping to maybe do a big stompy competitive Nidzilla list. So... that isn't doable?

Sure it is! It depends on the meta, and what you like to run..."pure" Nidzilla is not likely to do well, but a mix can do "OK" The "secret" is having multiple threats. It is just too easy to focus down one or two threats.

I'd suggest...

Swarmlord, Hive Commander makes lots of things work better, and she's a real in CC. A big Brood of Genestealers, and often a Trygon delivery service. Smite spamming (Zoey Broods, Tyrants, Broodlords) spamming Mortals with spores. Any, or all of those can build a good force.

Old one eye, and a Brood of Carnifexen can be real scarey, with support. The main thing is to have a reason for every Brood you toss in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, spitballimg...

Hive Fleet: Generic Bugs

HQ: Swarmlord
HQ: Old one eye

Troops: Stealer Brood, x20 (240)
Troops: Warrior Brood, x3, rending Claws, Deathspittersx2, Barbed Strangler (97)

Elite: Hive guard, x3 Shockers (117)

Heavy: Trygon, Adrenals
Heavy; Carnifex Brood, two sets of Scything, x2 (174)

Basicly you slingshot up the Hive guard, and DS the Trygon, Stealers in the tunnel...that should run about 1148 or so That leaves plenty to fill out acording to you own style of play. Just an example.

This is the kind of armylist that wont work in a competitive setting. All units are arriving in manageable chunks and it will be nothing but target practise. If you want to assault then it's better to convert your Genestealers to a GSC-army and go full stealer shock.

Such a tragedy. I don't like painting little critters. I was hoping I could go big stuff only to really get the most out of painting. Darn!

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Such a tragedy. I don't like painting little critters. I was hoping I could go big stuff only to really get the most out of painting. Darn!

If you want to use a lot of big monsters, you should probably try out 3-5 Flyrants and 2-4 Hive Crones. Some player at the ETC used a similar list.

 Astmeister wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
Such a tragedy. I don't like painting little critters. I was hoping I could go big stuff only to really get the most out of painting. Darn!

If you want to use a lot of big monsters, you should probably try out 3-5 Flyrants and 2-4 Hive Crones. Some player at the ETC used a similar list.

Would Exocrines fit in that concept? How about the Tyrannofex - he any good? That S10 gun seems kinda solid for tough targets.

I am trying to wrap my head around 'Nids, but they are baffling me. Hardly the 1's and 0's of my AdMech.

Exocrines are very good, but only if you can avoid moving it.
A Tyrannofex is pretty bad. All of its weapons are lackluster and the S10 gun more than all the others. The problem is the low BF and the bad AP. If you hit with all shoots, it can be very brutal, but that is valid for every weapon in the game.

The nid codex has a very good internal balance, making list building full of second guessing.

It is fun though. :-)

The problem with nidzilla now is that so many weapons are capable of multiple wounds and even wimpy guns wound on a 6. So with a zilla list, your outgunned, outmanned for objectives and you can be shot to pieces as you try to cross the field with little maneuverability.

I've been (very slowly) painting a Tyranid army, after playing a handful of games with proxies and deciding on models I know I will play with. I'm joining a league at a FLGS, and am trying to build a somewhat well-rounded 1k list that incorporates the models I own so far -- Genestealers, a Broodlord, and a Tyrannocyte.

I was wondering what you guys' thoughts were on the following list:

+ HQ [23 PL, 462pts] +
Broodlord [8 PL, 162pts]: Power: Catalyst
The Swarmlord [15 PL, 300pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror

+ Troops [16 PL, 256pts] +
Genestealers [16 PL, 256pts]
. 16x Genestealer [256pts]: 16x Rending Claws [32pts], 16x Toxin Sacs [64pts]

+ Elites [7 PL, 144pts] +
Hive Guard [7 PL, 144pts]
. Hive Guard [48pts]: Impaler Cannon [30pts]
. Hive Guard [48pts]: Impaler Cannon [30pts]
. Hive Guard [48pts]: Impaler Cannon [30pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [7 PL, 138pts] +
Tyrannocyte [7 PL, 138pts]: 5x Deathspitter [40pts]

Idea would be to deploy the Broodlord bubbled by Genestealers, and obviously have threm sticking together; Broodlord would try and keep Catalyst on the Genestealers. The Hive Guards don't need LOS, so would be hidden somewhere -- they wouldn't have a Synapse-sitter, hence placement becomes important. Swarmy-in-a-can would drop and use its slingshot to either guarantee its own charge, or assist the Genestealers.

I'm just not... super keen on the build. Not much ranged, not sure if I should spend 300k on Swarmy + its Tyrannocyte tax (or a Tyrant Guard tax if he has to walk up the table)... and the list doesn't fit into a detachment that actually gives me points, so I'll be short a point vs. most opponents.

And how does Instinctive Behavior ("must shoot at nearest visible enemy unit") work for a Hive Guard wielding an Impaler Cannon, which doesn't require LOS?

shogun wrote:

em_en_oh_pee wrote:

shogun wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I have read a lot of this thread, but 40+ pages is somewhat daunting. What does a competitive Nid list look like nowadays? And is Nidzilla a going thing too?

Thats because a lot of players are discussing/comparing single units and about what kind of weapons the should have. But if you are looking for a competitive tyranid list, then you have to look at the synergy of the whole armylist. Decent/cheap shooting in combination with the first turn gives other armies a big advantage and it doesn't matter what kind of weapons you give your carnifex if it get shot before turn 3. A regular tyranid army won't cut it in a competitive setting. To easy to keep the deep striking units outside of reach and not enough shooting compared to other armies. I think my biovore armylist could do well but it involves spamming biovores and not a lot of players like to do that. Not in the same way that other players use 5+ stormravens or 120+ conscripts.

Looking for the best way to walk/fly towards the enemy won't cut it. Tyranids will die that way. It's just target practice.

Yea, the AdMech Tactica is way different it seems. Lots of list-focus and not so much unit focus. Though we have a pretty clear line about what is and isn't good with such limited unit choices. 'Nids have a LOT of stuff.

I was hoping to maybe do a big stompy competitive Nidzilla list. So... that isn't doable?

Not if you are looking for a competitive armylist. You could make a 'think outside the box' armylist that could do well against specific competitive armies that runs the risk of meeting its 'rock' to its 'siccors'.

For example:

SPEARHEAD: 1
HQ:Malanthrope
TROOPS: 20 gaunts (10x devourer upgrade)
TROOPS: 3 rippers
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc

SPEARHEAD: 2
HQ:Malanthrope
TROOPS: 20 gaunts (10x devourer upgrade)
TROOPS: 3 rippers
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: mawloc
Heavy support: Trygon Prime
Heavy support: Trygon Prime

Mawloc spam gives you a great deal for only 100+ points a piece and the mortal wounds are starting to pile up. You can deploy them with the malanthrope and burrow in your own turn and release havoc the next turn. It's a one trick pony but it could work against armies that are not prepared for something like this. I'am not saying it's fantastic but it's a strategy.

pinecone77 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

shogun wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:
I have read a lot of this thread, but 40+ pages is somewhat daunting. What does a competitive Nid list look like nowadays? And is Nidzilla a going thing too?

Thats because a lot of players are discussing/comparing single units and about what kind of weapons the should have. But if you are looking for a competitive tyranid list, then you have to look at the synergy of the whole armylist. Decent/cheap shooting in combination with the first turn gives other armies a big advantage and it doesn't matter what kind of weapons you give your carnifex if it get shot before turn 3. A regular tyranid army won't cut it in a competitive setting. To easy to keep the deep striking units outside of reach and not enough shooting compared to other armies. I think my biovore armylist could do well but it involves spamming biovores and not a lot of players like to do that. Not in the same way that other players use 5+ stormravens or 120+ conscripts.

Looking for the best way to walk/fly towards the enemy won't cut it. Tyranids will die that way. It's just target practice.

Yea, the AdMech Tactica is way different it seems. Lots of list-focus and not so much unit focus. Though we have a pretty clear line about what is and isn't good with such limited unit choices. 'Nids have a LOT of stuff.

I was hoping to maybe do a big stompy competitive Nidzilla list. So... that isn't doable?

Sure it is! It depends on the meta, and what you like to run..."pure" Nidzilla is not likely to do well, but a mix can do "OK" The "secret" is having multiple threats. It is just too easy to focus down one or two threats.

I'd suggest...

Swarmlord, Hive Commander makes lots of things work better, and she's a real in CC. A big Brood of Genestealers, and often a Trygon delivery service. Smite spamming (Zoey Broods, Tyrants, Broodlords) spamming Mortals with spores. Any, or all of those can build a good force.

Old one eye, and a Brood of Carnifexen can be real scarey, with support. The main thing is to have a reason for every Brood you toss in.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So, spitballimg...

Hive Fleet: Generic Bugs

HQ: Swarmlord
HQ: Old one eye

Troops: Stealer Brood, x20 (240)
Troops: Warrior Brood, x3, rending Claws, Deathspittersx2, Barbed Strangler (97)

Elite: Hive guard, x3 Shockers (117)

Heavy: Trygon, Adrenals
Heavy; Carnifex Brood, two sets of Scything, x2 (174)

Basicly you slingshot up the Hive guard, and DS the Trygon, Stealers in the tunnel...that should run about 1148 or so That leaves plenty to fill out acording to you own style of play. Just an example.

This is the kind of armylist that wont work in a competitive setting. All units are arriving in manageable chunks and it will be nothing but target practise. If you want to assault then it's better to convert your Genestealers to a GSC-army and go full stealer shock.

How so? It puts three units up at once, and has plenty of points left for the rest of the army...I agree that for Tourney play GSC work better, but it is a false belief that Nids "must" charge T1...you can hit anytime before T4 so you can move and prep before striking.

But GSC ambush does not promise to avoid arriving in pieces to be defeated in detail.

Also he said he wants a Nidzilla list, so the extra units will likely be Big Bugs. (Maybe a Supreme Command of Winged Tyrants? )


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SideshowLucifer wrote:
The problem with nidzilla now is that so many weapons are capable of multiple wounds and even wimpy guns wound on a 6. So with a zilla list, your outgunned, outmanned for objectives and you can be shot to pieces as you try to cross the field with little maneuverability.

Yeah, I hesitate to say its dead...but you need at least a basic screen to get good play out of it...

Curious if double scytal and spinefists are better than rending/deathspitters for my raveners. My math says i get .211 wounds per point vs mech (not counting combat pistols shots)on the former while .1918 on the latter. Despite the math i am just concerned with the lack of ap.

My list is centered around threat overload melee with trygon prime with devilgaint bomb unit of 6 raveners, mawloc and then a second wave of hormagants, stealers, broodlord, swarm lord with pod with some venomthropes for some turn 1 protection

If the math is very similar on both, and the point cost is close, then it comes down to matchups. Actually it probably comes down to matchups earlier then that.

Do you have problems with marine lists in genral, take rending. Do you have problems vs IG and similar things, take the 2xScythal.

CHA0SiUM wrote:
I've been (very slowly) painting a Tyranid army, after playing a handful of games with proxies and deciding on models I know I will play with. I'm joining a league at a FLGS, and am trying to build a somewhat well-rounded 1k list that incorporates the models I own so far -- Genestealers, a Broodlord, and a Tyrannocyte.

I was wondering what you guys' thoughts were on the following list:

+ HQ [23 PL, 462pts] +
Broodlord [8 PL, 162pts]: Power: Catalyst
The Swarmlord [15 PL, 300pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: The Horror

+ Troops [16 PL, 256pts] +
Genestealers [16 PL, 256pts]
. 16x Genestealer [256pts]: 16x Rending Claws [32pts], 16x Toxin Sacs [64pts]

+ Elites [7 PL, 144pts] +
Hive Guard [7 PL, 144pts]
. Hive Guard [48pts]: Impaler Cannon [30pts]
. Hive Guard [48pts]: Impaler Cannon [30pts]
. Hive Guard [48pts]: Impaler Cannon [30pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [7 PL, 138pts] +
Tyrannocyte [7 PL, 138pts]: 5x Deathspitter [40pts]

Idea would be to deploy the Broodlord bubbled by Genestealers, and obviously have threm sticking together; Broodlord would try and keep Catalyst on the Genestealers. The Hive Guards don't need LOS, so would be hidden somewhere -- they wouldn't have a Synapse-sitter, hence placement becomes important. Swarmy-in-a-can would drop and use its slingshot to either guarantee its own charge, or assist the Genestealers.

I'm just not... super keen on the build. Not much ranged, not sure if I should spend 300k on Swarmy + its Tyrannocyte tax (or a Tyrant Guard tax if he has to walk up the table)... and the list doesn't fit into a detachment that actually gives me points, so I'll be short a point vs. most opponents.

And how does Instinctive Behavior ("must shoot at nearest visible enemy unit") work for a Hive Guard wielding an Impaler Cannon, which doesn't require LOS?

With instinctive behavior, your hive guard shoot at the closest visible enemy model. If they have no LoS, they don't shoot. The gun may not need LoS, but the model does because of instinctive behavior.

 Niiai wrote:
If the math is very similar on both, and the point cost is close, then it comes down to matchups. Actually it probably comes down to matchups earlier then that.

Do you have problems with marine lists in genral, take rending. Do you have problems vs IG and similar things, take the 2xScythal.

The cost is 7 points per model more for the deathspitter/rending setup for .02 less wounds/point. I was just wonder if my math was wrong. If not the cheaper route seems far more efficient

CDShaddock wrote:
Curious if double scytal and spinefists are better than rending/deathspitters for my raveners. My math says i get .211 wounds per point vs mech (not counting combat pistols shots)on the former while .1918 on the latter. Despite the math i am just concerned with the lack of ap.

My list is centered around threat overload melee with trygon prime with devilgaint bomb unit of 6 raveners, mawloc and then a second wave of hormagants, stealers, broodlord, swarm lord with pod with some venomthropes for some turn 1 protection

When you say mech, what mech are you talking about? There are some variations.

Also, how are they vs IG and SM?

My calculations are based on a 3+ save. They would be even more efficient vs guard equivalent
Double scytal
30*.68=20.4 hits
30*.17=5.1 1's to reroll*.68=3.468 additional hits
23.868 hits*.50 chance to wound tough 4=11.934wounds
11.934 wounds*.42 =5.01 unsaved wounds


Spinefists
24 shots*.50=12 hits*.34 chance to wound=4.08*.42 chance for them to fail save nets 1.7136 wounds

6.7136 wounds for 156 points

this right?