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Got my hands on the PDF and flicking through it I can see why the RT is only Tier 2.
No ship, Warrent of Trade ability I guess would be useful when tracking down items you want, but still nothing exciting. All it seems to have is +2 influence.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
jonolikespie wrote: Got my hands on the PDF and flicking through it I can see why the RT is only Tier 2.
No ship, Warrent of Trade ability I guess would be useful when tracking down items you want, but still nothing exciting. All it seems to have is +2 influence.
He has a ship (an imperial frigate). It's his last wargear in the list.
But I don't think the ship should be increasing the RT tier nonetheless. The group will have a ship to transport them (owned by a NPC or a PCRT) nearly every time and it isn't an item making you more powerful than the other members of your group because all the group is using it. It's more a "status" thing inside the dynamic of the team ("the ship is mine", "I'm the one doing orders on the deck") than a thing breaking the balance in a team.
Oh, how did I miss that. Well, ok good that is something.
Fafnir wrote: Oh, I certainly vote with my dollar, but the problem is that that is not enough. The problem with the 'vote with your dollar' response is that it doesn't take into account why we're not buying the product. I want to enjoy 40k enough to buy back in. It was my introduction to traditional games, and there was a time when I enjoyed it very much. I want to buy 40k, but Gamesworkshop is doing their very best to push me away, and simply not buying their product won't tell them that.
Any thoughts on using the SOB archetype for a tier 2 full marine (instead of a scout)? Unlike in the old FFG system, there is almost no difference between SOB power armor (just 1 str boost difference) and bolt weapons compared with marine equivalents. It's ostensibly a point but system so theoretically adding the cost of the archetype to the Astartes race should be equivalent. I'd just have to change the keywords and trinkets and it seems to make a decent Black Templar as is rather than putzing about with a scout.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
At over 450 pages Warhammer 40,000 Wrath & Glory is a veritable tome...
This makes me feel better about the price tag.
I haven't seen anyone mention the bestiary/foes section of the book. Does anyone who's laid eyes on it care to comment on it ?
The bestiary section is 45 pages. It starts with a section detailing how they work (types of threats, how to scale, sizes, special abilities) and a quick NPC creation section. After that, it continues with a list of adversaries, by type:
Other Xenos:
Genestealer
Genestealer Hybrid Metamorph
Clawed Fiend
Gliead Swoopbat
Enochian Death Skate
Ostian Sabretooth Vulpine
Leviathan Worm of Avachrus
Gilead Night Scarabs
After that, the chapter ends with a small section about named adversaries and an example, Arthius, "an opportunistic alien shapeshifter from a nearly-extinct xenos race".
I am the author of the review linked above. I joined to let you folks know that the 2nd part of my review is online.
The forum doesn't allow me to post links, but you'll find a link to the 2nd part under the 1st part of the review. If you have any questions or comments, feel free to post them on my blog or here in this thread.
Don't get me wrong, it was a nice read, but it is hard to give your review of the system much weight when you have admitted to not having played/tested it at all.
EDIT: This sounded meaner that I intended after re-reading. What I mean to say is, how W&G plays in practice is important. Is there a possibility of you posting a 'part 3' after playing a one shot or something? I meant it when I said it was a good read, and would like to hear your thoughts after some hands on experience.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/29 13:58:58
Grinshanks wrote: Don't get me wrong, it was a nice read, but it is hard to give your review of the system much weight when you have admitted to not having played/tested it at all.
EDIT: This sounded meaner that I intended after re-reading. What I mean to say is, how W&G plays in practice is important. Is there a possibility of you posting a 'part 3' after playing a one shot or something? I meant it when I said it was a good read, and would like to hear your thoughts after some hands on experience.
I fully understand your position. I'd love to play every product I review, but this is unfortunately not possible. Often just reading the book has to be enough. If I actually get a group of friends excited about the game, I'll run it and post my experiences on the blog.
Grinshanks wrote: Don't get me wrong, it was a nice read, but it is hard to give your review of the system much weight when you have admitted to not having played/tested it at all.
EDIT: This sounded meaner that I intended after re-reading. What I mean to say is, how W&G plays in practice is important. Is there a possibility of you posting a 'part 3' after playing a one shot or something? I meant it when I said it was a good read, and would like to hear your thoughts after some hands on experience.
I fully understand your position. I'd love to play every product I review, but this is unfortunately not possible. Often just reading the book has to be enough. If I actually get a group of friends excited about the game, I'll run it and post my experiences on the blog.
I've read a comment about character creation over at rpg.net that I find... less than encouraging, TBH.
I'll repost it here:
Spoiler:
A friend of mine has proposed to run a T4 game of Wrath & Glory. Since nobody has made characters for this game before, I decided to log my adventure through character creation in detail. You can read it below.
Okay, we're Tier 4. This means I have 400 build points. It would be nice if I the book had a pregen for me to work from but it doesn't, so we'll look and see what my options are...There aren't a lot of options! I decide to play an Eldar Warlock. That's a Tier 3 character. It's recommended in the book I do things this way:
1. Build the character at their "original" tier, which is 300 for an Eldar Warlock.
2. Advance them to Tier 4 by spending the appropriate BP.
3. Buy the "Staying the Course" Ascension Package. So that's what I'm going to do.
A few notes: I can't spend more than 150 BP on my attributes as a T3 character. I can't have an attribute or skill above 6 as a T3 character.
Let me mention something great here: Attribute value modifications due to species don't affect XP costs. This means if your primaris marine has +2 strength, and your strength starts at 5? You pay XP to advance it as though it's five, not as though it's seven. This is really good in terms of not creating an incentive to put all your points into the attribute(s) you get a bonus in.
So as an Eldar I get the following stuff from Species:
[*]Build Point Cost 10 (I'm down to 390)
[*]Speed 8
[*]+1 Agility
[*]Outsider: +2DN to all interaction tests with anyone with the Imperium keyword (Ouch!)
[*]Intense Emotion: +1DN to all Resolve tests. Failing a Willpower-based test in a scene involving intense emotion grants the GM +1 Ruin
[*]Psychosensitive: All Eldar may purchase 1 Minor Psychic Power if they also purchase the Psychic Mastery skill. This purchase also gives them the Psyker keyword. In addition, the Tier Restriction for Maximum Psychic Powers for Eldar Characters is increased by 1 to accommodate this purchase.
Then, I buy the Warlock package. It has a build point cost of 80 (!) which is a hell of a lot. This is, no gak, enough to make me want to rethink my entire concept and play something else. Whatever, I'm finishing this sheet and then if I don't want to play it I'll write up something else. I have no idea what is going on at a game design level, like what I'm getting in return for that. The Imperial Sanctioned Psyker costs 50, maybe it's just for the psychic powers and gear?
Anyway, here's what I get:
[*]80 BP cost. I'm down to 310 free.
[*]Prerequisites: Willpower 4, Psychic Mastery 2
[*]Keywords: Aeldari, Asuryani, Psyker, <Craftworld>. This tells me that I need to pick a Craftworld. There's a list of those somewhere that I'll look at later.
[*]Influence Bonus +2. I don't actually know what this does.
[*]Runes of Battle: A Warlock begins play with the Psyniscience and smite psychic powers (these do not count towards the maximum), and may purchase additional Minor Psychic Powers, Universal Psychic Powers, and Runes of Battle Psychic Powers, subject to Tier restrictions. I know that it costs points to buy psychic powers. This is going to be expensive.
[*]Rune armour, witchblade, shuriken pistol, a set of wraithbone runes, spirit stone.
So, let's start on Attributes. I suspect the party is going to be heavy on Astartes and other badasses, so there's not much point in trying to compete in those arenas. Fellowship is also a bit of a waste, with my Outsider trait I'm not going to succeed much on Interaction tests anyway. Instead, I'm going to try and buy up the stuff I want to be good at: Initiative (which is actually the basis for your Defense! That's why it only gets one skill linked to it), Willpower (because psyker), and after that Agility/Intellect (because Eldar.)
So! Scores of 3 for Strength, Toughness, and Fellowship. That's 10 points apiece. Score of 4 in Intellect and Agility (not counting racial bonus) 18 points apiece. Willpower and Initiative of 5 each, those are 33 (!) points apiece. I'm not sure if that's an exponential scale or a logarithmic one or what, but it definitely creates an incentive to shore up weaknesses rather than buy one single legendary attribute. Now let's double check those costs 30 (10x3) + 36 (2x18) + 66 (2x33) = 132. That leaves me with exactly enough points to increase one of my attributes from 5 to 6. I could also increase two of my attributes from 3 to 4, but obviously that's not nearly as cool. I want to increase willpower to 6 because if you're going to roll psyker, you'd best roll a lot of dice. But if I do that, I've spent 240 points out of 300, and I have to fit skills *and* psyker powers in that last sixty points. So instead I'm going to try and be a little more well-rounded, and try to fit in the extra willpower when I "advance" to T4.
And that's 132 (attributes) + 10 (race) + 80 (class) = 222 points spent. I have 78 left to buy skills and stuff with. Sadly, due to how expensive some of my stuff is, I can't even buy the "standard" T3 skill package. I'll go ahead and buy the T2 skill package for 70 points. This leaves me 8 points left (hahaha, so much for buying psychic powers).
[An Interesting Note: Buying Strength & Toughness up to 9, which would bring you to the maximum for an Astartes character if I'm reading this right, would cost 280 points. That would leave you paltry few points for the rest of your sheet, even at Tier 5. What I am getting at is that starting characters of a given tier will probably not be even close to their racial maximums. Primarchs may be Tier 5, but Tier 5 ain't Primarchs.]
Anyway, that package is:
One skill at rating 5
Two skills at rating 4
Four skills atrating 3
One skill at rating 2
So let's go:
Psychic Mastery 5
Weapon Skill & Scholar 4
Stealth, Awareness, Survival, & Pilot at 3.
Athletics at 2.
Now I've got 8 points to screw around with, which is not a lot. It costs one BP to learn a language, let's get rid of a few there. By default I speak Low Gothic & Aeldari. Let's spend 3 BP to be know Ork, Tau, and High Gothic. Now I've got 5 points left.
I'd really like to buy some cool gak in the equipment chapter, but I don't understand how that works at all at this point, and I'm not even sure I use BP to do it. So I'll save that for a later revision, or try to acquire things in play. Like a Jetbike. Jetbikes are cool.
So...five points for Gout of Flame, just because it seems hilarious, is IMO under-costed at 5 points, and I'm not going to have a lot of offensive power.
So, character sheet as a T3 non-ascended dude, except for traits (derived attributes) that reference Tier directly.
Skills Skill rating is below the dash, after the dash is the normal die pool.
Athletics: 2/5
Awareness: 3/7
Languages: Aeldari, High Gothic, Low Gothic, Ork, Tau.
Pilot: 3/8
Psychic Mastery: 5/10
Scholar: 4/8
Stealth: 3/8
Survival: 3/8
Weapon Skill: 4/9
Equipment: Rune armour:
Witchblade: 11+3ED; AP 0; Force, Parry, Warp Weapon
Shuriken pistol: 10+1ED; AP 0; Range 24m; Salvo 2; Penetrating [3], Pistol
A set of wraithbone runes: Not sure what this does
Spirit stone: Only useful if my character dies I think
Psyker Powers Smite
Psyniscience
Gout of Flame
...
And that's it. Let's see what happens during Ascension.
...first off, this bs costs me 40 more Build Points, which let me tell you I rather resent. I have no idea how I'm supposed to buy the attributes, skills, and psyker powers I need to be Tier 4 when I have to pay a giant tax of BP just to get there.
In return for this, I get
One free keyword which can be whatever the GM lets me have. I'm going to take Anhrathi, which is Eldar Corsairs. I think my dude was a pirate for a while.
My skill prerequisite goes up by one, which isn't a problem.
My Influence goes up by 1.
I can gain either 3 corruption or a Memorable Injury (Memorable injuries are supposed to have mechanical effects, but I can't find them anywhere near the chart, so for all I know they were left out.)
Gain either one T+3 Very Rare wargear or 2 T+3 Rare wargear.
Well, let's look at equipment. I think I have basically pretty good weapons and armor. I can't afford a jetbike (notably, I couldn't afford one even if I was ascending to Tier 5 - you're telling me a Tier 4 Eldar, a dude who is the supposed equivalent of an Inquisitor, cannot have a fething space motorcycle. That's dumb as hell. I can't afford a webway keystone, either, although I can imagine those being legitimately not a thing the Eldar hand out very easily.
Hmm, I bet those runes I got are supposed to be a Psychic Focus.
Anyway, I think I'm going to take a jump pack and an Eldar cybernetic implant; Eyes of the Crone. The latter will emulate the effect of a Night's Eye (no penalties from darkness or fog) and a reticule eye (+1d to Ballistic Skill tests. Since I don't have BS at all, I need all the help I can get.) I guess this is going to be my Memorable Injury - Morwyn has some serious scarring around one eye. He probably got that when he was a pirate. Yarrr, matey.
So anyway that was a waste of 40 points, let's see what I can do with the other 60.
18 points to raise Willpower to 6. I'd like to take Initiative up, too, but I just don't think I can afford it.
Skills are actually cheap and there aren't that many, so it's a good place to stash "leftover" points. So I'm going to buy psychic powers next.
Genuinely the major thing I want here is Mind Probe, because this is probably going to be a game where we investigate gak. That's fifteen points. I think I'm better off waiting to buy more psychic powers in-game.
I have 25 points to buy skills.
So let's say:
Ballistic Skill to 3 is 6 points.
Insight to 3 is 6 points.
Athletics to 3 is 3 points (it was already at 2.)
Stealth to 4 is 4 points.
Awareness to 4 is 4 points.
That's 23 points. Umm. I guess I can take Tech, & it turns out Intimidate is based on Willpower. Intimidate 7 might be handy, I could use it for interaction attacks. I hope that Outsider doesn't affect that? I feel like being an Aeldari shouldn't make it harder to scare the gak out of Imperials. Who knows.
So, here's a finalized sheet:
Morwyn of Saim-Hann Former Corsair & Warlock, has a scar around his left eye, and a shining black orb in its place.
Skills Skill rating is below the dash, after the dash is the normal die pool.
Athletics: 3/6
Awareness: 4/8
Ballistic Skill: 3/8
Insight: 3/7
Intimidate: 1/7
Languages: Aeldari, High Gothic, Low Gothic, Ork, Tau.
Pilot: 3/8
Psychic Mastery: 5/11
Scholar: 4/8
Stealth: 4/9
Survival: 3/9
Tech: 1/5
Weapon Skill: 4/9
Equipment: Rune armour:
Witchblade: 12+3ED; AP 0; Force, Parry, Warp Weapon
Shuriken pistol: 10+1ED; AP 0; Range 24m; Salvo 2; Penetrating [3], Pistol
A set of wraithbone runes: +1 to Psychic Mastery tests
Spirit stone: Only useful if my character dies I think
Jump Pack
Eye of the Crone: +1 Ballistic Tests, not affected by darkness or fog.
Psyker Powers Smite
Psyniscience
Gout of Flame
Mind Probe
I'm going to be straight with y'all. This process actively pissed me off. For a game that looks to be very light and fast in play, it took me every bit of 2 hours to make a character. Admittedly that's due to inexperience with the system, but that's going to describe most people who sit down to play the game. Also, I was doing it with the PDF, where I could use the bookmarks to flick instantly to what I wanted. With a physical book this process would have been torture. W&G desperately needs workable quick-start or pregenerated characters.
Secondly, my character at T4 feels like they aren't much more advanced than T3, but they'll probably be expected to deal with more serious issues. I think the "ascension tax" is a mistake. I wasn't trying to power game with some wild combo, there just aren't a lot of archetypes to work with, and none of the ones at T4 looked appealing. There are only two archetypes given at Tier 4, if you play at this tier expect people to have to advance a lower-tier archetype. Like me, they may be annoyed to find they have to pay a giant BP tax to get there.
Secondly, take note of this: An Eldar Warlock (T3 archetype) is 90 points. The quick-start attribute array for T3 is 126 points. The quick-start skill array for T3 characters is 101 points. 90+126+101 = 317 points. Congratulations! Your suggested starting arrays, the closest thing to quick-start in this book, are unusable with the stated point totals for starting characters, and I still haven't bought any psyker abilities, the whole point of my archetype.
I'm not going to check any of the other race/archetype/tier combinations, because I'm exhausted from dealing with this.
While I agree that it's definitely complicated and not in any way fast and light, I disagree with his assertion that the "ascension tax" is a mistake. Each package gives tangible benefits to a player and therefore deserves to have a discrete cost based (supposedly) on those benefits. Making it free is a more than a few steps down the Palladium RPG road to ruin where things are just better for free just because.
I made up a test character myself last week using my idea of a tier 2 "marine" SOB and ascended him to 3. My ascension conversion was relatively easy as it only consisted of the package and two talents though due to the limited budget I had to work with. Alternately, I swapped out one of those talents for a couple of skill and attribute buffs instead.
One thing that did come up was that there is no mention of rank with ascension in that section (although its covered in the GM progression section). If you're organically trying to play the character and then increase them to the next tier as a party due to accumulated build point "xp", you lose all your rank when you ascend which makes certain talents useless again. It felt to me that ascension was more like repeat character generation and should be treated as such thematically instead of "ascending" an existing character unfortunately.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/31 14:47:49
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So someone brand new to the system found building an advanced, higher level character somewhat confusing on their first try? With no help and literally no one in the group having made any sort of character for the game before?
That doesn't say anything about the system at all.
It does say one thing: you can't build some Tier-appropriate characters with the points you are given and the suggested, tier-appropriate, attribute and skill expenditures.
That is not exactly good, as is something you really should be able to catch on the first review pass.
Also, it says that there is a "one size fits all" ascension cost. As not every package gives the same benefits, I find this... less than ideal. Cost should always be proportionate with gains.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/31 15:19:23
I didn't catch that they were the same cost. I largely skipped over the psychic one as I had no intention of being a librarian in the test build I did. With only two packages so far, it's hard to tell whether it'll be the same cost going forward but I do hope they price things differently rather than apparently just going with New Tier x 10 for everything. It defeats the purpose of having points if they're not actually tied to benefit level. Thanks for pointing that out.
Yeah, I didn't have much wiggle room with attributes and skills myself either. I basically used the cheapest "packages" and bumped up one attribute a little higher. Same with the skills (lowest package, bump up one). I didn't get no where near the tier limits with the highest base attribute being 3 for me at tier 2. At tier 2, the cost of astartes (which admittedly bumps some attributes to 4) plus a class doesn't leave much wiggle room.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I read through the RPG.net thread and see a bit more clearly what you're referring to now. I do feel the example the original poster is giving is a bit of an extreme case though. He's taking a mid-cost race and adding literally the most expensive class in the entire book and then wondering why in his edge case he can't afford to take tier "appropriate" attributes and skills. Maybe it's the long time Shadowrun player/GM in me but I don't find that to be an issue with these sorts of point buy systems. If you prioritize something (and taking the single most expensive class and then loading it up with even more psychic stuff) then something else has to be deprioritized. In SR, you don't end up with a whizbang troll physad face merc because you can't afford to do all of that well at the same time starting out. YMMV.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/08/31 17:03:00
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Honestly, I think it just sounds like someone who isn't familiar with RPGs with point cost builds, or someone who missed the point that the "tax" is to simulate a more experienced lower tier hero without leaving them the build points to buy attributes and skills equal to the higher tier ones.
adamsouza wrote: Honestly, I think it just sounds like someone who isn't familiar with RPGs with point cost builds, or someone who missed the point that the "tax" is to simulate a more experienced lower tier hero without leaving them the build points to buy attributes and skills equal to the higher tier ones.
I know the poster. That is emphatically not the case. He is a 30-years veteran rpger. And an rpg.net admin for, like, decades, which would clearly rule out him being a newbie.
It might be as simple as the he doesn't like it very much, instead of a fault of his background.
I read through the RPG.net thread and see a bit more clearly what you're referring to now. I do feel the example the original poster is giving is a bit of an extreme case though. He's taking a mid-cost race and adding literally the most expensive class in the entire book and then wondering why in his edge case he can't afford to take tier "appropriate" attributes and skills. Maybe it's the long time Shadowrun player/GM in me but I don't find that to be an issue with these sorts of point buy systems. If you prioritize something (and taking the single most expensive class and then loading it up with even more psychic stuff) then something else has to be deprioritized. In SR, you don't end up with a whizbang troll physad face merc because you can't afford to do all of that well at the same time starting out. YMMV.
It might be that, but one of the other examples was an admech (no extra points iirc) and an Ork boy (lot me, 3 points left I think). That still feels of something going awry with the costs (which if that's all it is is actually a good thing! A slight errata and done).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/01 16:02:39
It might be that, but one of the other examples was an admech (no extra points iirc) and an Ork boy (lot me, 3 points left I think). That still feels of something going awry with the costs (which if that's all it is is actually a good thing! A slight errata and done).
I do agree though that it looks bad from a thematic and game design standpoint to not have your quick buy plug and play system literally not work for so many classes. With the pedigree of those involved, it's a bit surprising but maybe it was rushed due to the breadth of the content and trying to get it out for gencon. Either way, the quick but problematic fix is to adjust the package costs (and obviously contents) so that all combos work out of the box. Players can then either tweaking obsessively or take a talent or two to use the extra points freed up. That of course wouldn't help the people who bought the physical copy though but as long as the packages are correctly calculated then it's not really a big issue but rather just a minor stain on their reputation/editing/proofreading.
We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
adamsouza wrote: Honestly, I think it just sounds like someone who isn't familiar with RPGs with point cost builds, or someone who missed the point that the "tax" is to simulate a more experienced lower tier hero without leaving them the build points to buy attributes and skills equal to the higher tier ones.
I know the poster. That is emphatically not the case. He is a 30-years veteran rpger. And an rpg.net admin for, like, decades, which would clearly rule out him being a newbie.
It might be as simple as the he doesn't like it very much, instead of a fault of his background.
I never accused him of being a newbie. I have friends who've played D&D, Marvel, White Wolf, etc.. for 30 years which are all games where you roll or assign points and they all cringe at character creation in games like DC Heroes or Mutants and Masterminds which have crunchy point buy character building mechanics.
He complained about the tier upgrade costs. He clearly viewed that as a negative concept. It didn't leave him a lot left to buy the good stuff in his opinion. I'm viewing that as a good intentional design decision.
As player, I understand the desire to be as effective as possible. From a game design perspective I understand the intent to represent a lower tier character who's accumulated wealth, perks, gear, etc.. and is not a dice pool match for the higher tier characters.
A lone Guardsman in a group of Space Marines, who has plasma gun, friends and low places, and a komisar who's out to get him, makes more sense than a Guardsman who can go toe to toe with a Space Marine in combat.
W&G is a dice pool game. That guardsman after a few adventures can have a Ballistic and Melee skill equivalent to a Space Marine, but he probably shouldn't start out that way.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/02 16:02:24
I have a question for the dakka hive mind regarding WANG. The marine black carapce impant allows the armor to plug directly into the marine's nervous system for better control/maneuverabilitiy. From the wiki entry which is usually copied from a codex blurb:
"Note that a Space Marine needs the Black Carapace to use his Power Armour to its maximum capabilities, but Power Armour technology in general does not require this implant in order to function. The Sisters of Battle, for example, as well as some Inquisitors or wealthy Imperial functionaries such as Rogue Traders, also wear Power Armour into battle. However, since their central nervous systems are not linked directly to their armour's Machine Spirit (artificial intelligence) as a Space Marine would be, movement is cumbersome in comparison to the surprising grace and natural movement afforded by Astartes Power Armour, and the suit is likewise less capable of efficiently providing bio-monitoring and auto-treatment functions. "
So, with the impant rule for astartes in WANG, should Black Carpace give +1d to all physical tests made in the armor that require coordination (like attacking and full defense)?
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warboss wrote: I have a question for the dakka hive mind regarding WANG. The marine black carapce impant allows the armor to plug directly into the marine's nervous system for better control/maneuverabilitiy. From the wiki entry which is usually copied from a codex blurb:
"Note that a Space Marine needs the Black Carapace to use his Power Armour to its maximum capabilities, but Power Armour technology in general does not require this implant in order to function. The Sisters of Battle, for example, as well as some Inquisitors or wealthy Imperial functionaries such as Rogue Traders, also wear Power Armour into battle. However, since their central nervous systems are not linked directly to their armour's Machine Spirit (artificial intelligence) as a Space Marine would be, movement is cumbersome in comparison to the surprising grace and natural movement afforded by Astartes Power Armour, and the suit is likewise less capable of efficiently providing bio-monitoring and auto-treatment functions. "
So, with the implant rule for astartes in WANG, should Black Carpace give +1d to all physical tests made in the armor that require coordination (like attacking and full defense)?
Citing a non game source to get a game bonus seems dubious at best, but even if we went with that concept I've never heard of the armor enhancing coordination beyond it not being a hinderance to movement.
WEG's STAR WARS games almost always impose a DEX penalty while enhancing STR to resist damage, and sometimes lifting heaving things. I see the Space Marine Power armor in the same vain, where the connection to the armor allows the user to move without any hinderance, but doesn't make them better at shooting or hitting things in melee.
Is this the.. official acronym for the game, or is this referring to some other roleplay term?
Wrath ANd Glory
We have 4chan to thank for the nickname.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
adamsouza wrote: Citing a non game source to get a game bonus seems dubious at best, but even if we went with that concept I've never heard of the armor enhancing coordination beyond it not being a hinderance to movement.
WEG's STAR WARS games almost always impose a DEX penalty while enhancing STR to resist damage, and sometimes lifting heaving things. I see the Space Marine Power armor in the same vain, where the connection to the armor allows the user to move without any hinderance, but doesn't make them better at shooting or hitting things in melee.
Fair enough (although I disagree with demoting GW's own codex space marine description parotted on the wiki as just a "non game source" though and all that implies). It's not that it enhances the movement beyond what is normal but rather stops the power armor from slowing you down like it is supposed to do for non-black carapace users. Unfortunately, the lack of diversity between power armors means that the only difference functionally between the marine power armor and SOB is a one point strength boost. Same features and same protection otherwise despite the difference in size and the black carpace. Also, in the previous rpgiirc, the black carapace meant that you didn't count as one size larger (making you easier to hit) with the armor because of the increased coordination unlike others in heavy armor.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/02 16:35:11
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