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2020/04/16 18:50:52
Subject: 40K RPG WRATH & GLORY - Pg 52, v2 pdf available now/preorder the printed book
Kick ass pic - might well buy cos I have all the others.....
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Albertorius wrote: I expect that the same way that any other game with free XP expenditure does, which is mainly to say, it really doesn't and it's left up to the table and the GM.
From what I can see, archetypes have species limitations, logically enough in 40k, and suggestions on attributes, skills and talents, but no general hard caps (there are talents with specific limitations, though).
Thanks. Once you get a chance to go over it a bit more, let us know what you think. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the changes.
2020/04/17 05:32:20
Subject: 40K RPG WRATH & GLORY - Pg 52, v2 pdf available now/preorder the printed book
Albertorius wrote: I expect that the same way that any other game with free XP expenditure does, which is mainly to say, it really doesn't and it's left up to the table and the GM.
From what I can see, archetypes have species limitations, logically enough in 40k, and suggestions on attributes, skills and talents, but no general hard caps (there are talents with specific limitations, though).
Thanks. Once you get a chance to go over it a bit more, let us know what you think. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on the changes.
Well, for now I can see there's still quite a bit of errata (wrong costs, mainly) and there's still far too few archetypes, but as now there's a "freeform" character generation, I don't think that's as much of an issue. There are more talents now, which should help differentiate characters further, but the core of the game is unchanged.
Comments from an old FFG freelance:
Basic character creation is pick species (species provides base stats and skills rather than modifiers, plus a couple of special perks, all covered in the cost... unless you're human, in which case you don't pay anything, but don't get anything either), pick archetype (haven't gotten to the archetypes yet), spend remaining XP to customise (humans get more customisation because they've not spent anything on species). Astartes is, for example, 160xp for a heap of basic attributes and skills. Primaris is 198 for a bit more. Orks start at Strength and Toughness 3, Aeldari at Agility 3. No tier limits on species, but the Astartes ones obviously are too expensive to play at lower tiers.
Advanced character creation is pick an appropriate keyword, spend XP freely on attributes, skills, archetypes if wanted, and talents. It does mention that you can go without an archetype if you want, but you'd better buy a talent or two to make up for the deficit, and there's mention of archetype-creation guidance later. Again, not gotten that far.
Character creation guidance also has age, hair colour, eye colour, and height random rolls. Humans start out in their late 20s/early 30s on average, but add years per tier. Astartes start out in their 70s and add years per tier (not sure how that syncs up with Scouts, haven't got there yet). Aeldari start off around 5 or 6 centuries old and add 3d6 centuries per tier. Orks don't generally age as much over tier... but they gain an extra 2d6" of height each tier, which I thought was amusingly fitting.
Just realised something here... this is the first 40kRPG to use Imperial measurements rather than metric...
Edit: Space Marine chapter/geneseed variations are a bit meatier and more impactful now, and it looks like, across the board, anything that used to give 1/2 Rank as a bonus now gives Rank, and anything that used to give +Rank as a bonus now gives double Rank as a bonus - for example, Blood Angels get to reroll double rank dice on melee attacks (but risk becoming frenzied if they see blood in melee), and Dark Angels get to reroll double rank dice on aimed ranged attacks (but don't socialise well outside their Chapter), while Space Wolves get both Acute Senses and Dual Wield talents for free (but can never voluntarily retreat).
Meanwhile, the Aeldari choose a Path they've previously walked and get a Rank bonus from that to a particular skill, and can buy additional previous paths by spending xp.
Chaos has no specific archetypes in the rulebook, but rather a page explaining how to alter other archetypes to represent traitor versions.
Edit 2: Started on the Archetype section now, and each archetype includes the cost and effects of the prerequisite species, which makes things even easier to work with.
2020/04/17 18:33:44
Subject: 40K RPG WRATH & GLORY - Pg 52, v2 pdf available now/preorder the printed book
Albertorius wrote: Well, for now I can see there's still quite a bit of errata (wrong costs, mainly) and there's still far too few archetypes, but as now there's a "freeform" character generation, I don't think that's as much of an issue. There are more talents now, which should help differentiate characters further, but the core of the game is unchanged.
That's not promising. :( Mistakes like that were found almost in real time when the original came out and it was bad enough that they made it through the editorial process without someone simply doing simple arithmetic the first time around. If they didn't double check that given the history, it's doubly worse this time around. I'd have preferred if they had limited the book to only imperial characters with the redux (while still keeping the others completely legal though if you have the original) so as not to spread the content so thin but I knew that was very unlikely to happen so am not surprised if it didn't happen. Still... simple math errors (I wonder if they're the same errors they copy/pasted or did someone else screw up with addition a second time?) are inexcusable when you're already revamping an error ridden product so soon after first release.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/17 18:33:56
2020/04/18 01:53:59
Subject: 40K RPG WRATH & GLORY - Pg 52, v2 pdf available now/preorder the printed book
One of the changes I've noticed aside from the much improved layout is that chaos archetypes are no longer entirely separate entries. Instead they are modifications to imperial versions. Generally the change is wargear, some corruption points, the [MARK OF CHAOS] keyword, and [LEGION] instead of [CHAPTER].Chaos marks are talents now. The mark of Nurgle gives you +1 toughness, just like in 7th Edition.
I'm still going through it, but I like what I've seen so far.
"Show me where it says that in the codex!" said Learchus.
"You know brother that I cannot." said Uriel.
warboss wrote: That's not promising. :( Mistakes like that were found almost in real time when the original came out and it was bad enough that they made it through the editorial process without someone simply doing simple arithmetic the first time around.
...snip...
WhIle I'd prefer the PDF to be error free, Cubicle 7 has taken a proactive stance to catching these errors before printing with an open error reporting form to report errors - this via Facebook.
2020/04/18 14:02:09
Subject: 40K RPG WRATH & GLORY - Pg 52, v2 pdf available now/preorder the printed book
Crowdsourcing editing is not praise worthy IMO. I agree that it is preferable to the worst case scenario of just leaving them in though. Again, I don't have the pdf so am going off of what Albertorius wrote but this type of error that the original was notorious for should have gotten special attention the second time around. Ymmv.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/18 14:03:08
2020/04/18 14:11:29
Subject: 40K RPG WRATH & GLORY - Pg 52, v2 pdf available now/preorder the printed book
warboss wrote: That's not promising. :( Mistakes like that were found almost in real time when the original came out and it was bad enough that they made it through the editorial process without someone simply doing simple arithmetic the first time around.
...snip...
WhIle I'd prefer the PDF to be error free, Cubicle 7 has taken a proactive stance to catching these errors before printing with an open error reporting form to report errors - this via Facebook.
They do a have a google form submission for presenting errors as well.
I’ve looked through the new book—lots of stuff is better, but they really half-assed some stuff. I looked in the Tempestus Scion Archetype—Besides any major mechanics stuff changed that they’ve sort of changed everywhere, they copy pasted from the original Wrath and Glory edition, not even looking at the errata, and they ended up removing things as well.
They didn’t make the Scion start with Tempestus Carapace like the original W&G did (they changed it to do this in the errata). They forgot or removed the Omnishield helm rule. In addition, in equipment, Monoscopes are still considered a weapon upgrade, not a piece of equipment that’s shoulder-mounted. This should also be a part of the built-in tech for Tempestus Carapace. The original W&G made this mistake, too.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/18 14:12:50
If the truth can destroy it, then it deserves to be destroyed.
2020/04/18 14:22:45
Subject: 40K RPG WRATH & GLORY - Pg 52, v2 pdf available now/preorder the printed book
From the post, it looks like the book is printed and on the slow boat (from China?) and it'll probably still be a month until copies reach customers hands if you (pre)ordered direct from them. No idea when it'll hit store shelves but the last time with the original WANG it was another month or two to filter down the distribution process and that was without a worldwide pandemic. With over sixth months since the release of the pdf version, I can't help but think no lessons were learnt from the initial version's release as it too was long and very drawn out. :( I don't have the pdf so can't comment on what, if any, changes were made since the thread was last updated in April. Still progress is progress and the Imperial war machine is perceptibly moving forward.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/30 16:48:19
2020/10/31 09:03:13
Subject: 40K RPG WRATH & GLORY - Pg 52, v2 pdf available now/preorder the printed book
Since the thread was bumped, I figured I'd also post that the same company now making WanG announced their new darker, more heresier style RPG using a variant of the classic d100 system. I have no idea what this means for WanG long term.
warboss wrote: Since the thread was bumped, I figured I'd also post that the same company now making WanG announced their new darker, more heresier style RPG using a variant of the classic d100 system. I have no idea what this means for WanG long term.
I'm not a fan of how broad in scope the WanG system, so hopefully it marks a return to a more focused scope and the grimdark themes that Alan Bligh et al. brought to the FFGRPGs.
I appreciate the info (no sarcasm). I would point out though that there is nothing listed there for PDF release post Q1 2023 (with the usual for them half year delay between that and physical copies in stores) which means it's all stuff that was already in the pipeline. I fully admit that it may be normal for them to not announce things out longer than that and may mean nothing but it's not as reassuring as you may think. I've been through that rodeo multiple times with RPG companies over the decades and a lack of long term announced products is usually the first kiss of death for the line; I sincerely hope I'm wrong. They are after all supporting both WHFB and AOS as separate lines to some degree (admittedly I have no interest in either and am just going off of memory) so it's definitely possible to do both for 40k as well. I suppose we'll see about this time next year.
DrGiggles wrote:
I'm not a fan of how broad in scope the WanG system, so hopefully it marks a return to a more focused scope and the grimdark themes that Alan Bligh et al. brought to the FFGRPGs.
Yes and no. I agree that WanG was too broad (personally I think it should have focused on the Imperium first and then released various xenos and Chaos supplements afterwards) but you're probably talking about the spread out of power levels. I initially liked the tripartite split with FFG's 40k lines but then it went to far with six lines ultimately (five if you don't include DH2.0). Only with the release of Only War did I realize that it wasn't a good idea. I just hope history doesn't repeat itself.
DrGiggles wrote:
I'm not a fan of how broad in scope the WanG system, so hopefully it marks a return to a more focused scope and the grimdark themes that Alan Bligh et al. brought to the FFGRPGs.
Yes and no. I agree that WanG was too broad (personally I think it should have focused on the Imperium first and then released various xenos and Chaos supplements afterwards) but you're probably talking about the spread out of power levels. I initially liked the tripartite split with FFG's 40k lines but then it went to far with six lines ultimately (five if you don't include DH2.0). Only with the release of Only War did I realize that it wasn't a good idea. I just hope history doesn't repeat itself.
I was talking mostly about the themes, but yes I don't care for the power levels in W&G either. The dice pool system can make it feel comically easy to complete tasks that should be incredibly difficult, makes the game feel more like a power-fantasy simulator than an RPG at times which is fine just not my cup of tea. I find that RPG's are best when there are high-high's counterbalanced with potentially serious consequences for failure. The sniper in my group hitting the CSM in the head to distract him from murdering half of the party was amazing, and the CSM shooting the bandolier of grenades held by the sniper causing a fiery explosion that immolated the sniper and nearby psyker was also awesome and is still talked about fondly by the group nearly 3 years later.
Agreed that the DH supplements went off the rails. The original rule book, creatures anathema, and the inquisitor's handbook were good though. Based on the interview linked earlier in the thread though this new RPG system will be fairly narrow in focus.
Eilif wrote: I have the same question. For Fluff and possible ideas for wargaming scenarios is the bundle worth it for those not intending to play the RPG?
They might be good for setting up scenarios for kill team and skirmish scale stuff but the FFG books tended to be very *insert sector here* specific though you can cut and paste in other factions/characters as needed.
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