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Made in au
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





It's hard to see from the pictures, but it looks like the guns haven't grown much, but rather the base has just gotten bigger with more space around the guns?
   
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






RazorEdge wrote:
Maybe because it's 8mm and not 6mm.

Or because for whatever reason, Onslaugh Miniature's sisterhood, particularly the first couple of releases, are on the tiny side, height wise.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/01 20:44:25


 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





AllSeeingSkink wrote:
It's hard to see from the pictures, but it looks like the guns haven't grown much, but rather the base has just gotten bigger with more space around the guns?


The base is undeniably bigger (especially the Astra Militarum ones), but the guns are longer too. About one half for the Hydra version and nearly two times bigger for the basilisk artillery one (which honestly makes sense, given its nature).


 Albertorius wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
Maybe because it's 8mm and not 6mm.

Or because for whatever reason, Onslaugh Miniature's sisterhood, particularly the first couple of releases, are on the tiny side, height wise.


It's a Vanguard Miniature sister, from their Convent range. It's not from Onslaught Miniatures. The height is a "real" 6 mm scale.
   
Made in nl
Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





The Netherlands

RazorEdge wrote:
Maybe because it's 8mm and not 6mm.

Not this again.

Titanicus/Aeronautica are 1/4th of 40k scale, but we see that a lot of 6mm models (especially more true scale stuff like Vanguard Miniatures) work just fine here. 40k itself is very inconsistent, super humans in power armour that are supposed to be way bigger than regular humans are smaller than Necromunda gangers (and I'm not even talking about the Goliaths here) or Rogue Trader crew members. GW has never really been that consistent when it comes to scale (ever tried fitting 10 Space Marines into a Rhino?), so we kinda have to work around it. Regular humans are somewhere between 6-7mm tall, Space Marines are about 8mm. Vehicles should be 1/4th the size of their 40k counterparts.

The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





 Malika2 wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
Maybe because it's 8mm and not 6mm.

Not this again.

Titanicus/Aeronautica are 1/4th of 40k scale, but we see that a lot of 6mm models (especially more true scale stuff like Vanguard Miniatures) work just fine here. 40k itself is very inconsistent, super humans in power armour that are supposed to be way bigger than regular humans are smaller than Necromunda gangers (and I'm not even talking about the Goliaths here) or Rogue Trader crew members. GW has never really been that consistent when it comes to scale (ever tried fitting 10 Space Marines into a Rhino?), so we kinda have to work around it. Regular humans are somewhere between 6-7mm tall, Space Marines are about 8mm. Vehicles should be 1/4th the size of their 40k counterparts.


For the most part, AI is 8mm scale, because when FW made aircraft for 40k or the original AI they mostly scaled them correctly. 8mm is around 1/200 to 1/225 scale, and if you measure most of the aircraft in AI and compare them to their fluff dimensions, they are in that range. The fluff dimensions for AI aircraft are generally the proportions of WW2 aircraft or early jets, but they're as big as modern jets.

Once you start expanding to other infantry and vehicles that exist in the regular GW 40k range or the Titans, the scale gets whacky because GW have never scaled their models well and titans are generally undersized compared to their fluff values, and we've had scale creep over the years meaning recent models are bigger than older ones.

It'll be interesting to see what size infantry is in this new Epic universe, as GW have the opportunity to correct all the scale issues they have in regular 40k. So far the only "infantry" model we have are the grot gunners on the Eavy Bommer, which are ~5 to 5.5mm tall when seated (and a grot is probably about the same height sitting as he is standing, lol).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/02 12:32:03


 
   
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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





The Netherlands

The Aeronautica Grot model seems to match the 6mm scale counterpart by Vanguard Miniatures perfectly.


The Wars of Tusculum Nova - A Vanguard Miniatures fanblog 
   
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Ye Lord of The End Times (and a good guy)





RazorEdge wrote:
Maybe because it's 8mm and not 6mm.


Didn't GW say scale is same as AT? Which is 100% 6mm...In AT 8mm myth became when GW designer said SPACE MARINES would be 8mm in it if infantry was made but last time I checked space marines are taller than humans.

AT is 6mm and pretty sure(like 95% sure) AI is same scale. Unless I misremember and AI is indeed different scale to AT then AI is 6mm scale.

2021 painted/bought: 506/499 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





Ottawa Ontario Canada

tneva82 wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
Maybe because it's 8mm and not 6mm.


Didn't GW say scale is same as AT? Which is 100% 6mm...In AT 8mm myth became when GW designer said SPACE MARINES would be 8mm in it if infantry was made but last time I checked space marines are taller than humans.

AT is 6mm and pretty sure(like 95% sure) AI is same scale. Unless I misremember and AI is indeed different scale to AT then AI is 6mm scale.


AT is 7-8mm, 6mm is smaller, which is actually ideal for AT bases because it makes the titans seem that extra little bit bigger. If you actually put 7-8mm stuff next to AT models, it's usually about right but can look a bit big at times. It's a bit like heroic scale exaggerating hand and weapons, you wanna want that in the inverse for at, at least in terms of basing.

Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
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Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf





tneva82 wrote:
RazorEdge wrote:
Maybe because it's 8mm and not 6mm.


Didn't GW say scale is same as AT? Which is 100% 6mm...In AT 8mm myth became when GW designer said SPACE MARINES would be 8mm in it if infantry was made but last time I checked space marines are taller than humans.

AT is 6mm and pretty sure(like 95% sure) AI is same scale. Unless I misremember and AI is indeed different scale to AT then AI is 6mm scale.


Nah, AI is closer to 8mm than 6mm. When FW released AI a bit over a decade ago, they scaled it between 1/285 and 1/300 which is pretty much 6mm, then when GW released the new plastic AI it upsized to 1/200 to 1/225, which is the range for 8mm.

The problem is as mentioned earlier, they scaled AI and AT off 40k, and the Titans were already undersized for 40k but the FW aircraft were pretty much right, so when they got scaled down to AT size they ended up closer to 6mm scale, but AI is more like 8mm scale.

I guess it's close enough that it doesn't really matter and they can be used side by side since they're different unit types, but I own some 6mm scale real world aircraft and there's no way AI is 6mm unless the 40k aircraft are huge compared to modern aircraft (which according to the fluff, they aren't).
   
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Looted thunderbolt and Marauder
   
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New Jersey, State of Perfection

I don't know why this scale thing is still a debate. GW stated that its scaled such that a space marine stands 8mm in height. Space Marines are about 8ft tall according to GWs fluff, ergo the minis are roughly 6mm scale because if we assume the average human is 6mm tall you get 1mm per foot which matches the space marines 8mm height.

All this stuff about titans being scaled incorrectly in 40k etc. is nonsense. It doesn't matter that GWs novel told you that a Warlord titan could fit a company of guardsmen in each foot, etc. GWs design studio is the arbiter of the truth, and their warlord titan is 24" tall or whatever and has enough room to fit the crew in the cockpit as described, ergo thats the proper size for it.

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chaos0xomega wrote:
I don't know why this scale thing is still a debate. GW stated that its scaled such that a space marine stands 8mm in height. Space Marines are about 8ft tall according to GWs fluff, ergo the minis are roughly 6mm scale because if we assume the average human is 6mm tall you get 1mm per foot which matches the space marines 8mm height.


Except 40k Space Marines are no taller than regular humans, so if we're saying a Space Marine (scaled off 40k) is 8mm, then a human would also be 8mm

I'm just going off the fluff scales for the aircraft, and what scale that turns out to be, which is 1/200 to 1/220-ish, which makes them 8mm scale. The resin FW ones that came out over a decade ago are closer to 6mm scale. The fluff sizes are reasonable relative to what you'd expect actual aircraft to be, so I'm happy enough using those values as canon.

If you call AI 6mm scale, then the aircraft are huge, it would be strange for a GW game to actually have vehicles that are large relative to their real life counterparts

But as someone said earlier, it seems they've scaled it off 40k rather than a specific scale and fluff values. And in 40k, Space Marines are short arses, Titans and Tanks are tiny, and in general there's scale creep from one generation to the next. I think the 40k FW aircraft are one of the few things that seem reasonably scaled, maybe the bloke in FW in charge of aircraft is a historic modeller and just defaults to making things the correct scale, lol.

We don't even have any infantry models to bother calling it 6mm or 8mm yet

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/09 11:33:28


 
   
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AllSeeingSkink wrote:


We don't even have any infantry models to bother calling it 6mm or 8mm yet


We actually do, there are grots showing in a few anti air turrets on the ork big bombers.

And they seem a bit big for 6mm scale, IMHO.


About the White Dwarf 459 article, it seems like we will be strictly restricted to a few imperial aircrafts for orks and T'au. Certainly to have future articles to deal with the others...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/09 11:53:46


 
   
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Warwickscire

Marauder Colossus!



   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




Too expensive for a bomber. In original AI they cost 16 points and Colossus Bomb have its own rule, and had to be dropped from a certain attitude or higher.

Whoever wrote these rules have no idea what they're doing.

What's next? Marauder Vigilant cost 30 points?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/15 20:42:26


 
   
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Chopstick wrote:
Too expensive for a bomber. In original AI they cost 16 points and Colossus Bomb have its own rule, and had to be dropped from a certain attitude or higher.


Wasn't everything cheaper in the old rules? I'd have to check but I thought in general things got more expensive this edition.

It's probably a hard one to price though. It still has 5 structure points, so it can't be too cheap, but it doesn't look to have much use other than being a bullet bag, and it looks to have less utility than a regular Marauder which is cheaper.

I think they first need to fix the problem of bombers being junk first, then we can start rebalancing the points based on them being useful bombers.

   
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Longtime Dakkanaut




There is a price relation between the aircrafts, ground-attack and transport crafts suppose to be much cheaper than fighters, unless there're a game where the only I do is bombing tiny marines and tanks.

Marauder bomber is 23 pts, have more firepower and carry 3 bombs that do 8 hit each. Extra damage might not be as good. But it can bomb more targets, and It is still cheaper with wing bombs.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/15 21:05:42


 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Bombers are just here for specific scenarios. Just like transport aircrafts.

Since AI is all about playing specific scenarios anyway...which is obviously already counted in the points.

Good to have bombers with a fair number of structure points, since they're usually the litteral key to victory - so the more they last, the better. Having a one time use bomb isn't that much of a handicap if you take into accounts the ground targets aren't that many. May be overkill, but when it's deciding if you win the game or not, you better be sure.

This Marauder version is just using the same miniature, isn't it ? Guess they technically kept their promise of having a Flight Plan this month but looks like the real news for the future of the game won't be before 2021. Oh well.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/15 22:42:57


 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




Remember when AI launched and we got the Marauder Bomber & Destroyer, we knew from the sprue lettering designation there would be another Marauder variant coming. So the Colossus is it.

Well I kind of like the slimmer look, losing the top turret and replacing the front turret las-cannon with heavy bolters does make it a bit more streamlined. Still has the big tail but with no top turret it doesn't get in the way anymore lol.

The use of this variant really is mission dependant and like they say in the article it should have support craft too. After its dropped that single big payload the choice of wing armaments becomes interesting too.

Personally I find it more interesting:

- How long it has taken to preview this one seeing as we knew early on it was coming

- How long it takes to release, will it be 3 months away

- With the Colossus and that Ork Mega Bomber will they now do actual ground bunkers/targets that need bombers like these to penetrate them

- And how many Imperial Navy craft are left to come out. Surely they must start focusing on more Xenos craft soon

With this month's White Dwarf including looted plane rules etc could we also see maybe traitor rules in the future? Using Imperial craft as the basis for another faction, like traitor/rebel navy, would mean little investment in new models at least.

Anyway it's all interesting and good for the game we are getting something new. It's nice to be able to plan while waiting (dreaming) for other factions like Eldar, Space Marines or Chaos.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I was hoping the next marauder variant would be the EW version. This doesn’t seem like it adds much over the standard. Marauder. Does the bomb bay look different? The angle of the photo makes it look pretty bland.
   
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Warwickscire

Remora drone!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/01/18/introducing-the-tau-aircraft-so-advanced-it-flies-itself/



Forgeworld Resin

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/01/18 14:08:18


 
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut






Look like nice point filler, too bad there're no AX-2-2 this edition, also no new variant.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/01/18 14:15:07


 
   
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MN

These, I might actually get as the scale change between 1st and 2nd won't bother me so much. The old ones were all ready pretty tiny!

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Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, they had to make them bigger, if only so that the hole for the flying peg is big enough without destroying the low part.

T'was to be expected there'd be no surprise here, it was the only release left for Taros AI book. We can finally move to the next for the future of AI...and it looks like filled in FW resin, sadly.
   
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Trustworthy Shas'vre





Leicester

I got the FW Vultures for Christmas and the quality was excellent; couple of tiny mould lines that scraped straight off and that was it. Just as easy as the plastics, so I wouldn’t let it bother anyone from a quality / ease of use point of view.

Can’t comment on the overseas pricing though.

DS:80+S+GM+B+I+Pw40k08D+A++WD355R+T(M)DM+
 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
Made in au
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Looks okay. Shame it's FW resin. Depending on the price I might grab a few alongside some Lighters I've also been meaning to pick up.

The rules seem a bit mediocre to me in terms of firepower and structure per point, but I guess if you've got a squadron of mostly Tiger Sharks having a few drones to boost the numbers so you aren't getting destroyed on activations isn't a bad idea. But back to backing it against most other aircraft it seems mediocre.

 Jadenim wrote:
I got the FW Vultures for Christmas and the quality was excellent; couple of tiny mould lines that scraped straight off and that was it. Just as easy as the plastics, so I wouldn’t let it bother anyone from a quality / ease of use point of view.

Can’t comment on the overseas pricing though.


It's mainly the price and bent parts I don't like about resin, but also in the past I've gotten several mould slips from FW resin models which is just a pain in the arse.

I hope we get more plastics in the future as I won't be investing big bucks to make all resin squadrons.
   
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[DCM]
Trustworthy Shas'vre





Leicester

Any idea when these will be released? I want to get some of the Necromunda angry kitties, but if I can get these at the same time and save myself some postage that would be great.

DS:80+S+GM+B+I+Pw40k08D+A++WD355R+T(M)DM+
 Zed wrote:
*All statements reflect my opinion at this moment. if some sort of pretty new model gets released (or if I change my mind at random) I reserve the right to jump on any bandwagon at will.
 
   
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Warwickscire

 Jadenim wrote:
Any idea when these will be released? I want to get some of the Necromunda angry kitties, but if I can get these at the same time and save myself some postage that would be great.


Typically, it's the second Sunday after these are previewed that they're announced as going on sale the following friday. So, three weeks Friday for pre-order would be my guess based on previous patterns
   
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Dakka Veteran




Germany

Seems like Aeronautica is basically a Forgeworld-only game by this point

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
 
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