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So I'm painting that greater daemon of the miniature world that is white, the one colour that is notoriously difficult to paint and the bane of many a keen hobbyist.

What I'm trying to find out is if theres any decent brands of white that give a solid coverage?

I'm interested in these new citadel foundation paints, especially the greys. However they wont come out for months.

I've only ever used citadel skull white and whilst i find it okay its has the coverage strength of diluted milk.

Any opinions on Vallejo (model or game colour) whites, or Rackham whites, Reaper whites?

I want a way to paint a nice solid white that wont take me 20 years and 20 layers of gradual greys to white.

 

And I've tried undercoating white in the past and hate it as i've always found the GW skull white spary to be extremely chalky with alot of excess dust and powder.

In terms of simple raw covering power, you'll get better results out of Vallejo Game Colour, and out of Reaper I cannot say. I would not recommend Vallejo Model Colour for the purpose of covering large areas with white. I also probably would not use Rackham simply for the sake of covering large areas en-masse with white either, more for careful detailing. Rackham can definitely cover, but the nature of it's binder just isn't as suited to covering large areas with speed. The Vallejo Game Colour product dries extremely rapidly so it's very good for quickly coating large areas. I think I would recommend Vallejo Game Colour the most since even though you will need to do more than a single coat, you can do coats extremely rapidly. You could also look at other manufacturers like Golden or Liquitex acrylics or Winsor & Newton's galeria series (cheaper series) of acrylic paints.

In my opinion however I think if you want to do a whole lot of white you should go get yourself a filbert-tip brush. Filbert brushes can be seen here: http://www.dickblick.com/brushshapes/filbert/
The large flat sides of the brush are perfect for covering large areas quickly, far better than using round brushes, and the rounded end is better than a perfect flat tip on miniatures since flat tips will tend to spread out over time if you're not supremely careful with them. That will make things go a whole lot faster no matter what brand you choose.

Of course I'm assuming that you *want* to cover a whole lot of area in a hurry to create a white basecoat after priming black. If that's not the case and you are just looking for spot-treatments of white, then what I said might not apply to you.

Ah, that classic of classic paint questions. White primer really is the best place to start *if* there is a majority of white surface on the fig. If you can, use Gunze Sanyo's "Mr. Primer" spray. It's a very light grey and will provide an excellent primer coat as well as a good light base to build upon. Assuming this is a Slaaneshi DP, atop that I would put a middle to light tone (tint) of pink, purple, blue, grey or whatever color the skin is starting from, and then add more white to it.

As to coverage, I've found Vallejo Game Color's white to provide good coverage and good opacity. However, like all paints, it is going to take two or more coats if put directly over black or some other very dark basecoat. In that case, you want to bring the highlight up more slowly, starting with a shade before moving to the pure color and it's tint.

Hi Caern

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes I'd be looking to cover a lot of white in bulk. Lots of cloth, fatigues, and jackets.

I'll try the game colour white, i think it will be very interesting to compare it to Citadels Skull white in terms of coverage power.

It would be the main colour going onto a grey base coat. I'd probably blast the black with some codex grey, then paint white onto it, since I'd need to keep a little grey underneath anyway for shading etc. I just wanted peoples experiences and feedback with white paints as i know from persoanly exeprience that it takes a lot of coats going from codex grey to Fortress grey, to Space wolf Grey then Skull white, in your standard citadel colour paints.

Better get internet shopping!!!

 

Posted By nyarlathotep667 on 01/31/2007 6:32 AM
Ah, that classic of classic paint questions. White primer really is the best place to start *if* there is a majority of white surface on the fig. If you can, use Gunze Sanyo's "Mr. Primer" spray. It's a very light grey and will provide an excellent primer coat as well as a good light base to build upon. Assuming this is a Slaaneshi DP, atop that I would put a middle to light tone (tint) of pink, purple, blue, grey or whatever color the skin is starting from, and then add more white to it.

As to coverage, I've found Vallejo Game Color's white to provide good coverage and good opacity. However, like all paints, it is going to take two or more coats if put directly over black or some other very dark basecoat. In that case, you want to bring the highlight up more slowly, starting with a shade before moving to the pure color and it's tint.

Cheers Narly.

Do you have a link to an online store that sells this Mr Primer spray? I'm based in England so often its hard for me to get decent US sprays such as Krylon etc.

I'll try the game colour white, i think it will be very interesting to compare it to Citadels Skull white in terms of coverage power.

It's not heaps better *per layer*, but it dries super quickly, so you can do those multiple layers pronto.

If you just wanted to cover heavily in a minumum number of coats, I'd actually try something like Winsor & Newton's Galeria line of paint instead, but because of the heavy body you have to be careful not to leave it unattended in a mini's recesses. It is one *bold* white. If you go with something like this though get Titanium whites, not Zinc whites (zinc whites are transparent whites for mixing)

Okay so i found an online store that sells gunze sangyo sprays.

But they don't have MR Primer. They have Mr Base white spray and Mr White surfacer spray...

Are these okay to use to you think? Maybe Mr White surfacer is the new name for Mr White Primer?

Also very interestingly they have a Mr Resin primer. This could be especially helpful for my death korp of krieg.

Thanks Caern I'll try that. Is Citadel white Oxide based?

Narly have you ever had experience with Floquil Spray Figure Primer?

Apparently mr surfacer is used to fill air bubbles and surface imperfections... so i'm thinking this is probably a bad thing for forgeworld infantry models as theres a whole shed load of very fine lines and detail that I want to keep.

Also the Mr Resin Primer has the same qualities and i'm concerned that i might get the same effects thus obscuring surface detail. I was going to try priming with purity seal first as I've heard that this works well with priming resin peices.

Any ideas on this technique?

Thanks Caern I'll try that. Is Citadel white Oxide based?

I don't know. I've searched high and low in the past in order to find a paper from Games-Workshop detailing the ingredients of their paints. All one can do is to guess. Citadel white doesn't behave totally like a good titanium dioxide or zinc (and there are no other inexpensive ingredients you can make a white from except lead, and it's not lead). It's weaker and slower drying than titanium dioxide should be, but still covers far better than zinc ever will. My guess would be it's just a rather weak (not enough pigment) titanium white.

Since you live in England you might want to go check out the Winsor Newton tour sometime. There's a small 'donation' of five pounds but I hear they sometimes hand out small samples. http://www.winsornewton.com/news_8EN.php

Ah, crap, you know what, it's Tamiya's "Surface Primer" spray that I've been using. Duh. I do have Gunze Sanyo Mr. Surfacer 500, but it's paint on stuff (which is still really, really good). I've also heard nothing but accolades from some very talented scale modelers & prop builders for the rest of Gunze Sanyo's "Mr. xxxxx" line of products, including their sprays.

Rather than going out and getting a tube of Titanium White paint, get Titanium White gesso. It includes glue in it's binder, is designed to be a primer coat and will shrink a bit when once cured (ie: it shouldn't obscure any details). There was a recent topic on using gesso as a primer here recently, which might help.

As for your resin: I think you already know this, but be sure to scrub them all down using a mild abrasive soap (like Ajax, Comet or whatever powdered soap brand you lads on Old Dart have) and lukewarm water. And I'd definitely prime them using either Tamiy's surface primer or some sort of automotive primer, the latter which should be available in either primer grey or white.

Whatever you do Do NOT use GW purity seal (or any of their varnishes), they are utter gak and have been known to completely wreck models. Go with an actual primer or resin primer. The Mr. Surfacer stuff, particularly the fine grain, only masks the minor imperfections on "smooth" surfaces, not actual detail. At least that's my experience with the paint on stuff. It is, however, aimed at the neurotically anal retentive scale modeler that primes, sands down any imperfections (which the primer helps reveal), then primes again.

A good place to look would be an artists' supply store. 95% of artists' acrylics have an opacity factor, which tells you exactly how transparent it is or isn't...

Rather than going out and getting a tube of Titanium White paint, get Titanium White gesso. It includes glue in it's binder, is designed to be a primer coat and will shrink a bit when once cured (ie: it shouldn't obscure any details). There was a recent topic on using gesso as a primer here recently, which might help.

I do that in the summer when I can't use my spray paints (humidity). If you go with that option, do yourself a huge favour and buy a couple cheap as dirt brushes *just* for doing this. It dries in no time and has a huge amount of tooth in order to grab paints going on above it, so it will rapidly degrade any light-duty brushes you use it with.

Thanks everyone for the ideas and feedback its great.

Yeah I've heard mixed things about GW purity seal, but wasn't sure if this batch issue had been resolved yet? I still have an old can from years ago that i was planning to use as i know that this mix at least is alright.

I've heard people recommend car spray however I was always dubious and a bit worried that it would eat surface detail. I guess not. Preferably I'd like to try and get some of that Gunze Sangyo if it doesn't obscure surface details, as it has had lots of decent feedback.

I'll check out the Tamiya stuff also. Has anyone tried using Vellejo's range of sprays?

EDIT** Well I just ordered some of the Gunze Sangyo Mr Resin Primer. I'll give it a shot when it arrives on a spare kreig trooper and let you guys know how it works. I'm hoping it will be great and will feel much better knowing that i've primed the model with a proper resin primer before painting. I have recuring nightmares of spending tons of money on my kreig army, painting them beautifully, then watching all the paint gradually flake and peel off!

I dont post here often but I thought this would be a good link to share on the question of paints and especially white paint:

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/?p=3754

Since I am working on an Eldar Army with a strong white component, I have been doing some research on this subject.

 Gregg

Reaper pure white will cover over black primer in one coat so will there yellows too