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Kroothawk wrote:

Therion wrote:Kroot I know you're fighting the good fight and all but damn you're late on this one.

1.) Well, I have to work sometimes and may have overlooked some detail on 20 pages per day.
2.) Pics weren't posted AFAIK, esp not the graphic including the different kinds of allies.

At the least they were better quality than the other pictures posted so far...

According to that latest matrix (Kroot posted) Space Marines and Tau are indeed brothers in arms

Hey guys, there's no need to get into personal fighting about a topic.

Please cool it or the moderators will have to hand out some sanction.

The one that Kroot posted has nothing to do with 6th other than give a possible gauge of some of the ally levels. I would say the matrix that GW gave today is fairly accurate, although there are a couple errors.

And why would Sisters of Battle & Black Templars be an "unholy alliance"

lol

TBD wrote:According to that latest matrix (Kroot posted) Space Marines and Tau are indeed brothers in arms

That picture is old, and either speculative or based on Forgeworld/Planetstrike/Apoc/whatever. It has been posted several times in several threads in the lead-up to 6th edition, including before any of the WD leaks or website information went up. It has nothing to do with the new rulebook, unless by chance.

Kroothawk wrote:BTW here the ally matrix from the GW June/July doubles tournament:

According to the GW site guard and others can ally with DE, so I'm guessing that's no longer correct

This is what is listed on the GW site as ally-able:

*GK are listed under Tau but not the other way around. Probably an admin error and they can ally.

Compel wrote:Do all flyers need to start in reserves, or will there be an exception for hover style ones?

That could be quite a big deal if they can't. It'd give people until turn 3 in many case to avoid Storm Raven pwnage. Crash and Burn might avoid some excessiveness too...

It'd also change Vendetta usage a lot.

The snapshots of the Flyer rules says that they start in Reserve. I agree that would limit their lethality a great deal. They would not show up until Turn 2 at the earliest and possibly not until Turn 3 or even 4. Even when they show up, if players keep them in Zoom move (for survivability) they will have a hard time finding good targets since they can only turn up to 90 degrees and still remain in Zoom move. The rule apparently requires them to take that 90 degree turn at the beginning of their move which further reduces flexibility in finding targets when then have to move at least 18 inches and do it in a straight line after the 90 degree turn.

I plan to use an Officer of the Fleet and 2-4 Hydras in my IG list so I'm not too worried about flyers. I may also include three Vendettas if they turn out to be good versus flyers.

Note that we do not have confirmation that Valkyries and Vendettas are flyers yet AFAIK though that seems likely to be the case. I wouldn't mind if Valks and Vens remained as skimmers without the flyers ability tacked on but my fellow IG players will probably disagree. It would be sweet to fly 18" and still fire all three TL lascannons, but as I stated above I think flyers will not get as much action as players think they will.

Altruizine wrote:

TBD wrote:According to that latest matrix (Kroot posted) Space Marines and Tau are indeed brothers in arms

That picture is old, and either speculative or based on Forgeworld/Planetstrike/Apoc/whatever. It has been posted several times in several threads in the lead-up to 6th edition, including before any of the WD leaks or website information went up. It has nothing to do with the new rulebook, unless by chance.

I know, but why were they ever "brothers in arms" in whatever in the first place?

A small detail and probably nothing but GW sales hyperbole, but in the tanks page linked previously the intro at the top of the page mentions that tanks are now more resilient than ever, which would run contrary to the current majority thinking it would appear.

Just to make it clear:
The ally matrix I posted is from a GW doubles tournament and was posted a while ago. But it may be an indication of the different levels of allies.

Kroothawk wrote:Just to make it clear:
The ally matrix I posted is from a GW doubles tournament and was posted a while ago. But it may be an indication of the different levels of allies.

What about the other screenies you posted? Where are they from, are there more?

Video discussion of the new rules revealed in White Dwarf can be found here.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/457218.page

Please continue discussion in this thread here.

So far I'm fairly happy for my Tau and will be even happier if the Skyray is an AA vehicle (again) and our disruption pods still work...I doubt there's any word on this.

Too soon to make a call about allies but on the surface it seems like the wrong direction to take in a game system that already suffers from cheesiness and balance problems. I was happy with allies being an Apoc thing, it may turn out that that's where it should have stayed...hope not.

JB wrote:

Compel wrote:Do all flyers need to start in reserves, or will there be an exception for hover style ones?

That could be quite a big deal if they can't. It'd give people until turn 3 in many case to avoid Storm Raven pwnage. Crash and Burn might avoid some excessiveness too...

It'd also change Vendetta usage a lot.

The snapshots of the Flyer rules says that they start in Reserve. I agree that would limit their lethality a great deal. They would not show up until Turn 2 at the earliest and possibly not until Turn 3 or even 4. Even when they show up, if players keep them in Zoom move (for survivability) they will have a hard time finding good targets since they can only turn up to 90 degrees and still remain in Zoom move. The rule apparently requires them to take that 90 degree turn at the beginning of their move which further reduces flexibility in finding targets when then have to move at least 18 inches and do it in a straight line after the 90 degree turn.

I plan to use an Officer of the Fleet and 2-4 Hydras in my IG list so I'm not too worried about flyers. I may also include three Vendettas if they turn out to be good versus flyers.

Note that we do not have confirmation that Valkyries and Vendettas are flyers yet AFAIK though that seems likely to be the case. I wouldn't mind if Valks and Vens remained as skimmers without the flyers ability tacked on but my fellow IG players will probably disagree. It would be sweet to fly 18" and still fire all three TL lascannons, but as I stated above I think flyers will not get as much action as players think they will.

According to the WD (I know not the best source for rules) Both Valk/Vendettas and Stormravens are subject to the newer flyer rules. Meaning they start in reserves and such. As for the Allies rules, they make people who have large "Forces of Order/Disorder" Collections have the chance to take bits of their collections to become part of one fun or themed armies.

Surely Dark Eldar would ally with anyone if they were being payed. Then after the battle call in reinforcements to finish off the remainder of their allies and take the spoils.

TBD wrote:And why would Sisters of Battle & Black Templars be an "unholy alliance"

I can't think of a Marine chapter that would be more friendly to the Sisters than Black Templars. I'd love to know what committee of minds put that ally matrix together.

GW has 'apperently' taken down the Ultimate Bundle, Collectors Edition and Gamers Edition from the Aussie site...

Dr Mathias wrote:

TBD wrote:And why would Sisters of Battle & Black Templars be an "unholy alliance"

I can't think of a Marine chapter that would be more friendly to the Sisters than Black Templars. I'd love to know what committee of minds put that ally matrix together.

I know, right? One loves burning xenos, mutants and psykers with righteous fire, the other likes burning xenos, mutants and psykers with righteous fire, guess that means they hate eachother!

Hmm, maybe the commity team thought that 'Acts of Faith' were 'Psychic Powers'...

I'm pretty sure most major North American tournaments will allow allies as some army books are unplayable without them. It's really not that bad in practice.

As for the Necron Phalanx being back, I thought losing an assault and getting the whole unit run down killed that unit? Are negative modifiers to morale in a losing assault gone? Otherwise I don't see 12 warriors and a Phaeron being around very long on the tabletop.

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Hmm, maybe the commity team thought that 'Acts of Faith' were 'Psychic Powers'...

"THEY CHANNEL THE POWER OF THE EMPEROR, BROTHERS! BURN THEM!

But Champion, surely that is a...

BURN THEM! THE VOICE IN MY HEAD IS TELLING ME TO BURN THEM! "

Glorioski wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:BTW here the ally matrix from the GW June/July doubles tournament:

Wait a sec there is something wrong with this, surely Blood Angels and Necrons are brothers in arms.

On a more serious note, my point remains Tyranids and Necron should be able to make a somewhat patching unholy alliance based on the simple fact that robots aren't a good food diet for a growing hive fleet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grimnarsmate wrote:Surely Dark Eldar would ally with anyone if they were being payed. Then after the battle call in reinforcements to finish off the remainder of their allies and take the spoils.

That may help to explain why they don't have so many friends.

You mean like nids Darth.... Vehicles being easier to kill seams like a step forward while allies could be an area of concern.

wyomingfox wrote:You mean like nids Darth....

No not Nids. They will do fine with things like Harpies, flying Tyrants and preferred enemy everywhere.

Matt.Kingsley wrote:GW has 'apperently' taken down the Ultimate Bundle, Collectors Edition and Gamers Edition from the Aussie site...

Maybe they ran out of their allocated stock. The ultimate bundle got taken off the UK site this morning.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Dr Mathias wrote:

TBD wrote:And why would Sisters of Battle & Black Templars be an "unholy alliance"

I can't think of a Marine chapter that would be more friendly to the Sisters than Black Templars. I'd love to know what committee of minds put that ally matrix together.

I know, right? One loves burning xenos, mutants and psykers with righteous fire, the other likes burning xenos, mutants and psykers with righteous fire, guess that means they hate eachother!

They can't fight together due to the excessive requirement for supplies of Promethium. They get into a slap fight before a battle to claim the canisters and drums of fuel needed for their fiery temperer hosts.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Hmm, maybe the commity team thought that 'Acts of Faith' were 'Psychic Powers'...

"THEY CHANNEL THE POWER OF THE EMPEROR, BROTHERS! BURN THEM!

But Champion, surely that is a...

BURN THEM! THE VOICE IN MY HEAD IS TELLING ME TO BURN THEM! "

Ha Ha, exactly

azazel the cat wrote:Okay... so the Necrons can ally with the Black Templars... I understand that ally =/= BFF, but I'm pretty sure the Necron codex mentions that at some point, Imotekh cut off Helbrecht's arms. So one way or another, I just don't understand how those two races are gonna fist-bump.

However, now my Necrons can bring a Rune Priest, a Razorback full of Grey Hunters and a squad of Long Fangs!

Personally though, I suspect that the Eldar will be the most-used ally, just because of Runes of Warding and how useful that will be if Psykers are getting a buff.

Robbietobbie wrote:If people use the possibility to write OP lists that's their fault for using that possibility in a way it wasn't intended to be used

I really do think that you should get the award for having posting the most inane thing in the entire thread thus far.

Inane because? People are blaming gw for writing a rule WAAC players can exploit to create even stronger list while these players will find the cheese anyway.. If you use the rules as they were intended i see no problem with the oppertunity to create a fluffy alliance. Hate the player, not the game

Coming soon to a galaxy near you: Abaddon and his gretchin legions unleash their 14th black crusade. Space wolves and thousand sons unite, and Commissar Yarrick teams up with the orks....

I'm glad I turned my back on the mess that GW has become. Andy Chambers and Rick Priestly must be spinning in their graves!

I can buy CSM and Daemons. I can but IG and CSM as part of a planet rebelling, I could even buy Tau and Ultramarines against those walking soup tins, but everything else is getting silly.

A final note on terrain. Given how easy it is to make rock piles, rubble and small ruins, added to all the tutorials on the painting section of this site, then I will be very dissapointed if anybody forks out big bucks for GW terrain.

I need to go and read my FOW rulebook