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2015/12/11 14:31:18
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
tetrisphreak wrote: So if I take ammo runts with my Mek guns, and upgrade to KMKs, can I re-roll the 1 on gets hot tests? And does doing that count as a reroll to hit, or would I keep my ammo runt? It looks to me like taking runts + KMKs is an awesome combo.
Yes. No.
If you roll a gets hot, you can reroll it, and that gun can also reroll its scatter that turn, but it does consume the ammo runt.
OK! that's the way i saw it too - so by never using the ammo runt (unless it's a REALLY critical turn and you need dead-on accuracy) the KMK's will have a 1/36 chance of getting hot all game. That's amazing for a 3 pt upgrade.
Ammo runts are a must for ork artillery. Annd especially for guns that get hot. Don't leave home without them cause hen artillery overheats, it kills grots without armor saves. A couple bad rolls and you got to pass ld5.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh, and about Buggzob and his WAAAGH! I'm afraid it's not gona be a fair move to assume he can WAAAGH! Cause the rules were written for 5-th ediion when WAAAGH used to be just an allowance to get fleet which used to allow run+charge. So, basically what 'ere We Go is now.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/11 15:19:50
2015/12/11 15:52:28
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
This doesn't answer my question.
I already had the update. As far as I can tell it says nothing about requirements for dreddmob? Maybe I'm just not seeing it. Are there specific pages to read?
"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket"
2015/12/11 17:10:47
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Frozocrone wrote: No, you can build it from a CAD, Ork Horde or Great Waaagh! Detachment. Or the supplements formation.
Thx. I thought there was something specific to have a dreddmob. So if I wanted to use the profiles for deffdredds and kills kanz do I use the points cost from the dreddmob update (the update has the old point values for those models)?
"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket"
2015/12/11 18:32:25
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Frozocrone wrote: No, you can build it from a CAD, Ork Horde or Great Waaagh! Detachment. Or the supplements formation.
Thx. I thought there was something specific to have a dreddmob. So if I wanted to use the profiles for deffdredds and kills kanz do I use the points cost from the dreddmob update (the update has the old point values for those models)?
Yes. If you use the profiles from the update, you also use the points from the update.
2015/12/11 18:40:20
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
How does that work with upgrades. Does a 75 point deffdredd already have 2 bigshootas? Does a 35 point kills Kan already have a bigshoota? If I give a dreddmob kill Kan a grotzooka does it cost 5pts like from the codex orks? Or is it going off the profiles from the IA book for upgrades?
"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket"
2015/12/11 18:40:20
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
I recommend the great waaagh detachment for deep striking troop deff dreads.
My Armies:
Orks about 15000-16000 mostly unpainted but slowly being worked on
Militarum Tempestus about 2000 points just built
Inquisition about 2000 points unpainted
Officio Assassinorum 570 unpainted
I dont paint quickly
2015/12/11 19:54:29
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
geargutz wrote: How does that work with upgrades. Does a 75 point deffdredd already have 2 bigshootas? Does a 35 point kills Kan already have a bigshoota? If I give a dreddmob kill Kan a grotzooka does it cost 5pts like from the codex orks? Or is it going off the profiles from the IA book for upgrades?
If the profile is available in the IA Dread Mob PDF, and you want to run a Dread Mob Detachment (Can be a CAD, Allied Detachment, Great WAAAGH, or Ork Horde), then you use that profile. If the profile says "See Codex: Orks" or something similar than you use the profile from that book instead. The only exception to this is cases where the reference has been updated. For instance, the Dakkajet profile is in the Ork Codex, and that one replaces the one from White Dwarf so you use that one instead.
2015/12/11 21:05:51
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Ok. Thx. That clears things up. a FW dreddmob can take deffdredds with obsec if in a CAD. While in a ghaz detach there is a 5up chance for deffdredd squads to get deepstrike.
One question still...if I run dreddmob, can I take units not included in a dreddmob, like a normal squad of Boyz or grots?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/11 21:22:42
"dont put all yer boyz in one trukk" "umless its dredds, then take as much uf those as possible"
geargutz interpretation of the 'umies "eggs in one basket"
2015/12/11 22:47:16
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
geargutz wrote: Ok. Thx. That clears things up. a FW dreddmob can take deffdredds with obsec if in a CAD. While in a ghaz detach there is a 5up chance for deffdredd squads to get deepstrike.
One question still...if I run dreddmob, can I take units not included in a dreddmob, like a normal squad of Boyz or grots?
That is actually a really complicated question when it comes to RAW. I think it is the single most problematic question in the 7th edition rulebook, and one of the reasons 40K is completely unplayable without some sort of FAQ, or House Ruling.
That being said, everyone I know has house ruled it the same way. If taking a forgeworld army list (or a supplemental army list like Farsight or Sentinels of Terra), then you are limited to entries that appear inside those army lists. So in this case, no, they wouldn't allow you to include units from the Ork codex that don't appear in the Forgeworld PDF. Also note that despite Zhardsnark appearing in the PDF he is not allowed in a Dread Mob Detachment.
2015/12/13 07:03:19
Subject: Re:Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Deployment: Dawn of War Mission: ITC Emperors will.
The game: I've played this list before. I've actually been tabled by it at past events. But this was ITC mission Emperor's will, and I had a clear advantage. He wasn't all that mobile, and I had tons of MSU to outscore him on Maelstrom, so I didn't need to play that aggressively. Also, I got master of ambush, so I outflanked 3 Squads of Tankbustas, and all of my Deffkoptas. He deployed his VSG, Flash Gits and both Tankbusta wagons on the left flank, and his MANZ and a squad of Gretchin on the right flank. I deployed my wagon, Lobbas, and Lootas, one trukk that I could hide out of LOS and one squad of gretchin that was planning to walk up the right flank and hold it once I cleared the MANZ.
Turn 1, he took out some lootas, a lobba, and move forward aggressively with his manz. I kill his gretchin that were out of the Void shield, and failed to take down any void shields, but his scout plus agressive movement of the Manz wagon gave me a 6" charge with some tankbustas, so they charged and killed it. I also advanced my wagons fairly aggressively. He responded by pouring all of his fire power into the wagon nearest his VSG, but AV 14 stands up pretty well. His MANZ assaulted and killed my other wagon which was fine.
My reserves all come in, and I send them at the VSG. I drop it, and put 3 hull points on a Wagon full of Flash Gitz. The squad that came out of the Wagon assaulted and Kill the Manz after the Gretchin soften them up. I now control the right flank and the middle of the table. He is reduced to a gunline around the VSG. I'm winning on Maelstrom Easily. He manages to kill my Wagon in Shooting, and shoots at, and then assaults the squad inside with Flashgitz and Tankbustas. I challenge with my Warboss, and the Flash gitz kill the entire squad, and put 2 wounds on my warboss at I3. I swing back, and kill 3 flash Gitz, and then mob rule myself to stay locked. A
t this point I manage to kill all the rest of his wagons, and his squad of tankbustas. He still has basically 2 full squad of Flash Gitz, but I control all the objectives and win 10-0. I failed to get Warlord. At the end of the game I had roughly 920 points left of my 1850 list, and he had a ton of points left too in all those flashgitz and badruk.
Resutls: 10-0 Win.
Round 2:
Spoiler:
Opponent: Eldar
His List: Aspect Host 5 Dark Reapers 5 Warp Spiders 5 Warp Spiders
CAD Bahara Mogan Ra
10 Rangers
10 Storm Guardians in a wave serpent (BL, SC) 10 Dire Avengers
7 Swooping Hawks.
Nightspinner 3 WarWalkers (BL, SC)
Deployment: Vanguard Mission: ITC Purge the Alien
The Game: It was Kill Points and I have 28 kill points in my list. Ugg. This is one of my most common opponents and he is a better player than his list might suggest. He took 1st turn. I reserved my Trukks, and deployed my Wagons, Lootas, Lobbas, and my Deffkoptas and Gretchin out of sight.
1st shot was War Walkers into my Wagon. Only 1 Hit. Pen. Explodes. Crap. 2nd Shot Mogan Ra into other Wagon. Hit, Rend, Roll a 6 on the rend, and then Immobalizes my other wagon. Crap. This is going south fast. He kills a bunch of boyz that came out of the wagon, and 2 lootas which fail leadership and run. Well, My plan to hide easy to kill stuff isn't going to work, because my tougher stuff can't put any pressure on him. So I send all of the Deffkoptas to midfield. 4 of the 6 take a wound from dangerous terrain. Ug. I also advance the unwagoned squad in such a way to give the Mek a chance to repair the immobilize resutl. My Lobbas kill a couple of Dark Reapers, and My non running Lootas put a hull point on a War walker. I fail to fix my broken wagon.
His turn, a unit of Warp spiders come in mishap and Die. YAY. Something goes right. He Brings in some Swooping Hawks and kills some gretchin, and the Dire avengers walk on. He kills all 6 Deff Koptas, and another loota. I bring on 2 of my 4 squads of Tankbustas. I declare my WAAAAGH. One squad of Tankbustas Kill a War Walker. The other Flats out to get behind his Dark Reapers. My Lobbas kill most of the Dire Avengers, and my Gretchin kill a couple more. My Gretchin are Heroes. I fail a 7" charge to kill the serpent with one squad of boyz, but make a 8" (10" after overwatch) charge into the Swooping Hawks and Bahara with the other.
On His turn, the last squad of Warp Spiders stays off. He unloads into my boyz at midfield. I am left with a 1 Wound Warboss (My Warlord), and a Mek. His War Walkers pop a trukk, and the tankbustas come out pinned. His Falcon Torrents another Trukk, and kills 2 Tankbustas inside. At this point, I'm up on Maelstrom, He's up on Kill points, and he has 1st blood. I need Warlord and Linebreaker, and to deny him those to win, and my Warlord is wounded, and stranded at midfield, so I'm playing for a Tie. My Tankbustas finish the War Walkers, and Shake the Falcon, and between them and the Lootas finish the Dark Reapers. My Boyz finish the Dire Avengers, and use the consolidation to head towards the rangers. My warboss and Mek Kill the Serpent. A good turn.
His other Warp Spiders come on and kill 1 squad of Lootas. They are getting him linebreaker. His Storm Guardian and Rangers shoot into my Warboss, and I roll a stunning amount of 4+ Saves to keep him alive, but lose the mek. Mogan Ra Kills some tankbustas. His Storm Guardians assault my Warboss. They do 3 Wounds. I make 2 saves, but lose my warlord. On My turn, I must kill those Warp Spiders, and his warlord. My 2 Last Lootas target his Warp spiders, and just as I had hoped, they do a jump to hide behind a building next to my Gretchin and Lobbas. This groups them up so that a small blast gets all 5. Boom. 4 Lobbas put 16 wounds on them. He only fails 4 saves, but one is his Exarch, so he could run. But because my Gretchin are Heroes, the 4 last Getchin shoot and kill the last warp spider. Things aren't going so hot on the other front. I shoot all my Tankbustas and Trukks into Mogan Ra, and he only fails one save. That isn't terrible, because I only made him take 7 or 8, but I needed him to die. My remaining Boyz Make a Charge into falcon and kill it dead.
At this point the game is called for time. I'm bleeding, but still in a pretty good position, and if the game went on there was a good chance I table him, but it didn't. So I lost.
Results: 6-5 Loss.
Round 3:
Spoiler:
I'm the highest Scoring player with a loss, so I play one of the undefeateds.
Ravenwing Support Squad: 3 Land Speeders (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter) Dark Shroud (The one that gives Shrouded).
Some other Ravenwing formation. Samael 3 Black Knights 6 Black Knights (Grenade Launcher).
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil Mission: ITC Scouring
This is a super powerful list. I mean super powered list. So many shots. So much high bs, Rerollable 2+'s. It is the nightmare of most players. I get master of ambush, and Stealth in Ruins. It is a dream combo for this mission, and I have one super powerful piece of terrain that blocks line of sight to an entire trukk in my deployment, but has an upper floor for my Lobbas. My lootas have a building on the other side of my deployment that is pretty good too. I deploy my Wagons, Lobbas, Lootas, and Gretchin. 5 of my 6 Deff Koptas, and 1 Trukk. I outflank my other tankbustas, and 1 Deff Kopta. I give him 1st turn, knowing I had to outscore him to win.
He scouts forward, then moves forward aggressively with his Black Knights, and speeders. He gets 3 plasma guns on side armor of my Battlewagon, but because of Terrain, and night fighting I actually have a 2+ cover (That's never happened to me before. He shoots, Pens once. I fail my 2+. He Rolls a 6. Boom. Crap. Thankfully the terrain in friendly, and I can get a 3+ for most of my boys. 3+ and FNP means I actually have 4 Boyz, a Nob, a painboy, A warboss and a Mek left after he finished shooting at them. He also shoots at a squad of Lootas and makes me take enough saves that I fail 5 2+ saves. On my turn, because his most deadly unit is so close (3-4" charge), I disembark my unhurt wagon, switch the warboss over to the full squad. I Shoot my Lobbas where a few units of Scat Bikes are grouped up, and manage to put 10 Saves on one unit, and 6 on another. He fails one in each unit I Then shoot my Boyz at the Knights they plan to assault. A minor misplay happens here, that isn't really a big thing. He is on Ruins with shrouded for a 2+, so he doesn't Jink. I make him take 3 Saves, and he rolls 2 1's. He Rerolls them (Which he shouldn't be able to do, because it is reroll Jink, not cover saves, but his rerolls are snake eyes. So my 3-4" charge becomes a 7" Charge. Doh! My Lootas put some wounds on another squad of Scat Bikes. He make 3/4 leadership test on Scat bikes. Then I assault leading the Way with Deff Koptas to eat overwatch. I didn't realize these Dark Angels are like Tau, so the Squad kills the deffkopta, but there other squads supporting fire to kill some of my boyzs, and turn my 7" charge into a 10" charge. So now I'm panicked. Even with Rerolls I only get a 9", so my core units are left hanging in the wind. My other squad assaults and kills 3 Black Knights. It wasn't a terrible turn for me. I lost about 280 points, and did about 340 points of damage, but I am way, way out of position.
He gets a little over confident, and advances on me farther planning to charge the squad left hanging in the wind. He shoots a blistering amount of shots into them, and I make a stunning amount of saves and Look out sirs. It comes down to one Warboss looking out to the other warboss. I fail 2 Lucky Stikk rerolls, and by the end of shooting the unit has a giant hole in the middle, the nob is dead, and both warbosses are down to 1 wound. He charges, and rolls a 3" That puts him into base with only 1 model, my warboss, and more than 3" away from the rest of my Orks. I challenge with the warboss, the only one that he is in base with. He accepts with Sammy. Sammy kills the boss, and 1 more Ork. His other models tried to pile into my squad, but were too far away to make base. It was ruled that they couldn't swing even though most of them were within 2" of the ongoing challenge. I did transfer all of the HOW's to the squad, and the overflow from the challenge. So I got to Pile in 2nd, and swung. I killed all but one Bike, and Samual took a wound somehow (overwatch?). I won combat by a bunch. He tries to hit and run and fails.
On My turn, 2 of my Tankbustas came in. I was still hunting jetbikes, and used the trukks to tankshock him off an important objective. I put one wound on 4 different squads of Scat bikes, and he made all of the leadership tests. My Deffkoptas were keeping maelstrom even. We got ready for the combat. I challenge with my Painboy, but his only bike left is the Sargent, so he accepts there. Sammy is piled in such that all of his attacks go on my other Warboss. The Sargent Kills my Painboy, and Sammy does 1 wound, but my warboss fails a look out sir, and dies. So it is just a few boyz left who swing impotently, and then get swept. I didn't see that result coming! Bummer.
We get a 30 Minute warning here. I have no idea how this game has taken so long. My opponent agonizes over where to shoot each squad and rolls a ton of dice, I guess. I also took forever to deploy because my last game ran late, and I was disorganized. We agree this is our last turn. So he Turbo boosts the Jetbikes onto objectives around the table, and moves towards the objective guarded by my heroic gretchin. He shoots me off one objective by killing a Deff Kopta, then assaults the gretchin with his Black Knight plus sammy, and sweep them. Thankfully I have another squad of Gretchin right there to take over. He has racked up a number of free points killing my Deff koptas, and controls a number of objective. I take away the one held by Sammy with my OS gretchin. Then I absolutely must take away 1 more from his OS Scat Bikes. One is triple covered, and I use a Deff Kopta, Trukk, Squad of Tankbustas, and Lobbas to kill one squad and charge the other 2. The Deff Kopta is charging a squad of 2 Jetbikes. It can only kill one, and the survivor makes his leadership. On another objective I'm doing better. I snapshoot my Tankbustas as the 2 solo jetbikes on it, and kill them both, and then turbo boost a Deffkopta onto it winning me the mission. We tied on Maelstrom, but I got EW.
Results: 5-2 Win.
My Final Standing:
Spoiler:
2nd place. There were actually no undefeated players, but one of the other 2-1 players outscored me.
ETA: There were 2 other Ork Players. The one I played ended up DFL. The other one tied me for 2nd, but I had a better strength of schedule.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/13 07:18:37
2015/12/13 07:49:00
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Deployment: Dawn of War
Mission: ITC Emperors will.
The game:
I've played this list before. I've actually been tabled by it at past events. But this was ITC mission Emperor's will, and I had a clear advantage. He wasn't all that mobile, and I had tons of MSU to outscore him on Maelstrom, so I didn't need to play that aggressively. Also, I got master of ambush, so I outflanked 3 Squads of Tankbustas, and all of my Deffkoptas. He deployed his VSG, Flash Gits and both Tankbusta wagons on the left flank, and his MANZ and a squad of Gretchin on the right flank. I deployed my wagon, Lobbas, and Lootas, one trukk that I could hide out of LOS and one squad of gretchin that was planning to walk up the right flank and hold it once I cleared the MANZ.
Turn 1, he took out some lootas, a lobba, and move forward aggressively with his manz. I kill his gretchin that were out of the Void shield, and failed to take down any void shields, but his scout plus agressive movement of the Manz wagon gave me a 6" charge with some tankbustas, so they charged and killed it. I also advanced my wagons fairly aggressively. He responded by pouring all of his fire power into the wagon nearest his VSG, but AV 14 stands up pretty well. His MANZ assaulted and killed my other wagon which was fine.
My reserves all come in, and I send them at the VSG. I drop it, and put 3 hull points on a Wagon full of Flash Gitz. The squad that came out of the Wagon assaulted and Kill the Manz after the Gretchin soften them up. I now control the right flank and the middle of the table. He is reduced to a gunline around the VSG. I'm winning on Maelstrom Easily. He manages to kill my Wagon in Shooting, and shoots at, and then assaults the squad inside with Flashgitz and Tankbustas. I challenge with my Warboss, and the Flash gitz kill the entire squad, and put 2 wounds on my warboss at I3. I swing back, and kill 3 flash Gitz, and then mob rule myself to stay locked. A
t this point I manage to kill all the rest of his wagons, and his squad of tankbustas. He still has basically 2 full squad of Flash Gitz, but I control all the objectives and win 10-0. I failed to get Warlord. At the end of the game I had roughly 920 points left of my 1850 list, and he had a ton of points left too in all those flashgitz and badruk.
Resutls: 10-0 Win.
Round 2:
Spoiler:
Opponent: Eldar
His List:
Aspect Host
5 Dark Reapers
5 Warp Spiders
5 Warp Spiders
CAD Bahara
Mogan Ra
10 Rangers
10 Storm Guardians in a wave serpent (BL, SC)
10 Dire Avengers
7 Swooping Hawks.
Nightspinner
3 WarWalkers (BL, SC)
Deployment: Vanguard
Mission: ITC Purge the Alien
The Game: It was Kill Points and I have 28 kill points in my list. Ugg. This is one of my most common opponents and he is a better player than his list might suggest. He took 1st turn. I reserved my Trukks, and deployed my Wagons, Lootas, Lobbas, and my Deffkoptas and Gretchin out of sight.
1st shot was War Walkers into my Wagon. Only 1 Hit. Pen. Explodes. Crap. 2nd Shot Mogan Ra into other Wagon. Hit, Rend, Roll a 6 on the rend, and then Immobalizes my other wagon. Crap. This is going south fast. He kills a bunch of boyz that came out of the wagon, and 2 lootas which fail leadership and run. Well, My plan to hide easy to kill stuff isn't going to work, because my tougher stuff can't put any pressure on him. So I send all of the Deffkoptas to midfield. 4 of the 6 take a wound from dangerous terrain. Ug. I also advance the unwagoned squad in such a way to give the Mek a chance to repair the immobilize resutl. My Lobbas kill a couple of Dark Reapers, and My non running Lootas put a hull point on a War walker. I fail to fix my broken wagon.
His turn, a unit of Warp spiders come in mishap and Die. YAY. Something goes right. He Brings in some Swooping Hawks and kills some gretchin, and the Dire avengers walk on. He kills all 6 Deff Koptas, and another loota. I bring on 2 of my 4 squads of Tankbustas. I declare my WAAAAGH. One squad of Tankbustas Kill a War Walker. The other Flats out to get behind his Dark Reapers. My Lobbas kill most of the Dire Avengers, and my Gretchin kill a couple more. My Gretchin are Heroes. I fail a 7" charge to kill the serpent with one squad of boyz, but make a 8" (10" after overwatch) charge into the Swooping Hawks and Bahara with the other.
On His turn, the last squad of Warp Spiders stays off. He unloads into my boyz at midfield. I am left with a 1 Wound Warboss (My Warlord), and a Mek. His War Walkers pop a trukk, and the tankbustas come out pinned. His Falcon Torrents another Trukk, and kills 2 Tankbustas inside. At this point, I'm up on Maelstrom, He's up on Kill points, and he has 1st blood. I need Warlord and Linebreaker, and to deny him those to win, and my Warlord is wounded, and stranded at midfield, so I'm playing for a Tie. My Tankbustas finish the War Walkers, and Shake the Falcon, and between them and the Lootas finish the Dark Reapers. My Boyz finish the Dire Avengers, and use the consolidation to head towards the rangers. My warboss and Mek Kill the Serpent. A good turn.
His other Warp Spiders come on and kill 1 squad of Lootas. They are getting him linebreaker. His Storm Guardian and Rangers shoot into my Warboss, and I roll a stunning amount of 4+ Saves to keep him alive, but lose the mek. Mogan Ra Kills some tankbustas. His Storm Guardians assault my Warboss. They do 3 Wounds. I make 2 saves, but lose my warlord. On My turn, I must kill those Warp Spiders, and his warlord. My 2 Last Lootas target his Warp spiders, and just as I had hoped, they do a jump to hide behind a building next to my Gretchin and Lobbas. This groups them up so that a small blast gets all 5. Boom. 4 Lobbas put 16 wounds on them. He only fails 4 saves, but one is his Exarch, so he could run. But because my Gretchin are Heroes, the 4 last Getchin shoot and kill the last warp spider. Things aren't going so hot on the other front. I shoot all my Tankbustas and Trukks into Mogan Ra, and he only fails one save. That isn't terrible, because I only made him take 7 or 8, but I needed him to die. My remaining Boyz Make a Charge into falcon and kill it dead.
At this point the game is called for time. I'm bleeding, but still in a pretty good position, and if the game went on there was a good chance I table him, but it didn't. So I lost.
Results: 6-5 Loss.
Round 3:
Spoiler:
I'm the highest Scoring player with a loss, so I play one of the undefeateds.
Ravenwing Support Squad:
3 Land Speeders (Assault Cannon, Heavy Bolter)
Dark Shroud (The one that gives Shrouded).
Some other Ravenwing formation.
Samael
3 Black Knights
6 Black Knights (Grenade Launcher).
Deployment: Hammer and Anvil
Mission: ITC Scouring
This is a super powerful list. I mean super powered list. So many shots. So much high bs, Rerollable 2+'s. It is the nightmare of most players. I get master of ambush, and Stealth in Ruins. It is a dream combo for this mission, and I have one super powerful piece of terrain that blocks line of sight to an entire trukk in my deployment, but has an upper floor for my Lobbas. My lootas have a building on the other side of my deployment that is pretty good too. I deploy my Wagons, Lobbas, Lootas, and Gretchin. 5 of my 6 Deff Koptas, and 1 Trukk. I outflank my other tankbustas, and 1 Deff Kopta. I give him 1st turn, knowing I had to outscore him to win.
He scouts forward, then moves forward aggressively with his Black Knights, and speeders. He gets 3 plasma guns on side armor of my Battlewagon, but because of Terrain, and night fighting I actually have a 2+ cover (That's never happened to me before. He shoots, Pens once. I fail my 2+. He Rolls a 6. Boom. Crap. Thankfully the terrain in friendly, and I can get a 3+ for most of my boys. 3+ and FNP means I actually have 4 Boyz, a Nob, a painboy, A warboss and a Mek left after he finished shooting at them. He also shoots at a squad of Lootas and makes me take enough saves that I fail 5 2+ saves. On my turn, because his most deadly unit is so close (3-4" charge), I disembark my unhurt wagon, switch the warboss over to the full squad. I Shoot my Lobbas where a few units of Scat Bikes are grouped up, and manage to put 10 Saves on one unit, and 6 on another. He fails one in each unit I Then shoot my Boyz at the Knights they plan to assault. A minor misplay happens here, that isn't really a big thing. He is on Ruins with shrouded for a 2+, so he doesn't Jink. I make him take 3 Saves, and he rolls 2 1's. He Rerolls them (Which he shouldn't be able to do, because it is reroll Jink, not cover saves, but his rerolls are snake eyes. So my 3-4" charge becomes a 7" Charge. Doh! My Lootas put some wounds on another squad of Scat Bikes. He make 3/4 leadership test on Scat bikes. Then I assault leading the Way with Deff Koptas to eat overwatch. I didn't realize these Dark Angels are like Tau, so the Squad kills the deffkopta, but there other squads supporting fire to kill some of my boyzs, and turn my 7" charge into a 10" charge. So now I'm panicked. Even with Rerolls I only get a 9", so my core units are left hanging in the wind. My other squad assaults and kills 3 Black Knights. It wasn't a terrible turn for me. I lost about 280 points, and did about 340 points of damage, but I am way, way out of position.
He gets a little over confident, and advances on me farther planning to charge the squad left hanging in the wind. He shoots a blistering amount of shots into them, and I make a stunning amount of saves and Look out sirs. It comes down to one Warboss looking out to the other warboss. I fail 2 Lucky Stikk rerolls, and by the end of shooting the unit has a giant hole in the middle, the nob is dead, and both warbosses are down to 1 wound. He charges, and rolls a 3" That puts him into base with only 1 model, my warboss, and more than 3" away from the rest of my Orks. I challenge with the warboss, the only one that he is in base with. He accepts with Sammy. Sammy kills the boss, and 1 more Ork. His other models tried to pile into my squad, but were too far away to make base. It was ruled that they couldn't swing even though most of them were within 2" of the ongoing challenge. I did transfer all of the HOW's to the squad, and the overflow from the challenge. So I got to Pile in 2nd, and swung. I killed all but one Bike, and Samual took a wound somehow (overwatch?). I won combat by a bunch. He tries to hit and run and fails.
On My turn, 2 of my Tankbustas came in. I was still hunting jetbikes, and used the trukks to tankshock him off an important objective. I put one wound on 4 different squads of Scat bikes, and he made all of the leadership tests. My Deffkoptas were keeping maelstrom even. We got ready for the combat. I challenge with my Painboy, but his only bike left is the Sargent, so he accepts there. Sammy is piled in such that all of his attacks go on my other Warboss. The Sargent Kills my Painboy, and Sammy does 1 wound, but my warboss fails a look out sir, and dies. So it is just a few boyz left who swing impotently, and then get swept. I didn't see that result coming! Bummer.
We get a 30 Minute warning here. I have no idea how this game has taken so long. My opponent agonizes over where to shoot each squad and rolls a ton of dice, I guess. I also took forever to deploy because my last game ran late, and I was disorganized. We agree this is our last turn. So he Turbo boosts the Jetbikes onto objectives around the table, and moves towards the objective guarded by my heroic gretchin. He shoots me off one objective by killing a Deff Kopta, then assaults the gretchin with his Black Knight plus sammy, and sweep them. Thankfully I have another squad of Gretchin right there to take over. He has racked up a number of free points killing my Deff koptas, and controls a number of objective. I take away the one held by Sammy with my OS gretchin. Then I absolutely must take away 1 more from his OS Scat Bikes. One is triple covered, and I use a Deff Kopta, Trukk, Squad of Tankbustas, and Lobbas to kill one squad and charge the other 2. The Deff Kopta is charging a squad of 2 Jetbikes. It can only kill one, and the survivor makes his leadership. On another objective I'm doing better. I snapshoot my Tankbustas as the 2 solo jetbikes on it, and kill them both, and then turbo boost a Deffkopta onto it winning me the mission. We tied on Maelstrom, but I got EW.
Results: 5-2 Win.
My Final Standing:
Spoiler:
2nd place. There were actually no undefeated players, but one of the other 2-1 players outscored me.
ETA: There were 2 other Ork Players. The one I played ended up DFL. The other one tied me for 2nd, but I had a better strength of schedule.
Orks vs Orks! Good job!!!
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PM me for an INSANE (100K+ points) if you desire.
2015/12/14 04:01:24
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
About the gets hot on the KMKs, I might be reading this wrong? It looks like people were saying that, for instance, if I get a 1 on the "gets hot" roll, and I use the ammo runt, not only do I get to reroll the "gets hot" result, but I also get to reroll the scatter, even though I only consumed one ammo runt. Is that right or was I reading that post wrong, because that doesn't make much sense to me.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
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2015/12/14 06:27:15
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
So, from now on, every army will include a formation of 2-4 scouts + 1-3 vanguards that don't scatter and charge the turn they arrive + they can decide if they want to arrive or not.
We have to adapt to it. First of all, our backlines are never safe again. Lootas, big gunz, tanks - all won't hold on it's own. A massive bauble-wrap is needed. Or mega-characters. That's an allready fine combination. 3-5 big gunz, mega-boss or megamek + regular mek. This way we have a t7 bunker with 2+ armor and ld8-9. Mobile, shooty and capable of killing stuff in mellee to boot.
Oh, and we should also run this scouts + vanguards. They're exactly what orks need. Luckilly, i've got 10-20 sm jumppacks for the original purpose of making stormboyz cause i got exhausted with constructing rokkit packs out of clay.
2015/12/14 07:01:14
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Vitali Advenil wrote: About the gets hot on the KMKs, I might be reading this wrong? It looks like people were saying that, for instance, if I get a 1 on the "gets hot" roll, and I use the ammo runt, not only do I get to reroll the "gets hot" result, but I also get to reroll the scatter, even though I only consumed one ammo runt. Is that right or was I reading that post wrong, because that doesn't make much sense to me.
You always have to reroll both, they are considered one 'to hit' roll. So if you reroll because you have a bad scatter, you also need to reroll the gets hot part.
2015/12/14 14:26:38
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Vitali Advenil wrote: About the gets hot on the KMKs, I might be reading this wrong? It looks like people were saying that, for instance, if I get a 1 on the "gets hot" roll, and I use the ammo runt, not only do I get to reroll the "gets hot" result, but I also get to reroll the scatter, even though I only consumed one ammo runt. Is that right or was I reading that post wrong, because that doesn't make much sense to me.
You always have to reroll both, they are considered one 'to hit' roll. So if you reroll because you have a bad scatter, you also need to reroll the gets hot part.
Actually, what i'm saying is that since the ammo runt gives the ability for a reroll, you get to reroll the gets hot as long as an ammo runt is still there. It doesn't consume the ammo runt, because a get's hot check on a blast weapon is NOT a roll to hit. The reroll comes from the section in the gets hot rules that says "as long as a weapon CAN reroll to hit, you may reroll the dice to see if a blast weapon gets hot...". (emphasis mine, probably paraphrased). So, as long as you never actually use the runt to reroll the scatter (unless it's a critical shot and you really really need to hit something) you'll have very reliable KMKs for the entirety of a game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/14 14:27:10
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2015/12/14 15:58:38
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
koooaei wrote: what? I think you're still consuming an ammo runt. Cause without consuming it, you're not getting an ability to reroll the to-hit.
It's order of operations - you don't declare the reroll until after you've seen whether the blast hits or not. So, when the gets hot check is made there's no decision yet whether or not to burn the runt. The reroll for the gets hot check applies as long as the gun has a runt.
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2015/12/15 00:36:07
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
It's order of operations - you don't declare the reroll until after you've seen whether the blast hits or not. So, when the gets hot check is made there's no decision yet whether or not to burn the runt. The reroll for the gets hot check applies as long as the gun has a runt.
I see what you are trying to do and it would have been nice if this is true, but really it seems definitely wrong to re-roll Get hot without consuming an ammo runt. And i don't know any player (including me) that will accept that even in casual game.
If you get 1 on Get Hot the shot is a miss. You need to consume an ammo runt to reroll, that's it. (as for the scatter, personally i don't think you can reroll it with the same ammo runt, but without ruling you better agree with your opponent first)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/15 04:14:03
2015/12/15 02:38:41
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
If you get 1 on Get Hot the shot is a miss. You need an ammo runt to reroll, that's it. (as for the scatter, personally i don't think you can reroll it with the same ammo runt, but without ruling you better agree with your opponent first)
Yeah, this is what I thought. Technically, the mek gun does not have the ability to reroll misses until the ammo runt is consumed, and you don't get to reroll the scatter because that gets hot counts as the reroll.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2015/12/15 03:04:33
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Rismonite wrote: I thought if it gets hot no shot is fired and you immediately roll to wound, unless you choose to consume a runt and reroll the whole process.
Yes, I think this is correct. Gets Hot is before roll to hit.
If you get 1 on Get Hot the shot is a miss. You need an ammo runt to reroll, that's it. (as for the scatter, personally i don't think you can reroll it with the same ammo runt, but without ruling you better agree with your opponent first)
Yeah, this is what I thought. Technically, the mek gun does not have the ability to reroll misses until the ammo runt is consumed, and you don't get to reroll the scatter because that gets hot counts as the reroll.
No, not technically. The rule for ammo runt says one use only this model may reroll one failed to hit roll. After you use it, it's gone, but up until that point the model can reroll a miss if it desires, this triggering the interaction with gets hot. It's beardy as hell but supported by RAW and let's face it orks can use every crafty trick we can find.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/15 03:05:43
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2015/12/15 03:22:48
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
The rules say "If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule,) a Wound is only sufferered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit."
It specifically says "if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1," which refers to the actual re-roll itself. Since the KMKs can only reroll when they consume an ammo runt, the ammo runt must be consumed to get the re-roll.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/12/15 03:24:08
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
6000 - Death Skulls, Painted
2000 - Admech/Skitarii, Painted
2015/12/15 03:26:45
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Vitali Advenil wrote: The rules say "If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit (including because of BS6+ or the Twin-linked special rule,) a Wound is only sufferered if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1; it may also re-roll Gets Hot results of 1 for weapons that do not roll To Hit."
It specifically says "if the To Hit re-roll is also a 1," which refers to the actual re-roll itself. Since the KMKs can only reroll when they consume an ammo runt, the ammo runt must be consumed to get the re-roll.
Read the last sentence you quoted regarding weapons that do not roll to hit. That one is germane - your point is the wrong part of the gets hot rule in this case. KMKs are blast weapons - ammo runts on weapons that roll to hit like KMBs or Badrukk's gun work as usual - you gotta spend them to reroll. In a blast weapons case the gets hot is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROLL.
Automatically Appended Next Post: How am I the only one who sees this RAW?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/15 03:27:33
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
2015/12/15 03:39:40
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Read the last sentence you quoted regarding weapons that do not roll to hit. That one is germane - your point is the wrong part of the gets hot rule in this case. KMKs are blast weapons - ammo runts on weapons that roll to hit like KMBs or Badrukk's gun work as usual - you gotta spend them to reroll. In a blast weapons case the gets hot is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ROLL.
I see where you're coming from, but even as RAW, this seems like a really douchey thing to do. Even if the exact wording allows this, the rules are clearly meant for you to spend the reroll on it, so RAW or not, I'm not going to do this and I would never agree to let someone else do this. It's a cheap bit of rules lawyering that I absolutely despise because of a few players I had to deal with in Pathfinder campaigns.
"The undead ogre believes the sack of pies is your parrot, and proceeds to eat them. The pies explode, and so does his head. The way is clear." - Me, DMing what was supposed to be a serious Pathfinder campaign.
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2015/12/15 11:47:00
Subject: Making Orks Competitive- Gather the Council, Prepare to Waaagh!
Since when is discovering a combo lawyering? It's certainly a niche use for ammo runts but all the rules read out clearly that it works.
Edit to add - I got this idea prettymuch from a local guard player. he takes commander pask and a retinue of 2 leman russes with plasma cannon eradicators. Since the unit has preferred enemy, they get to re-roll the gets hot check on the big guns. Also, a space marine player likes to take a librarian and use prescience on his plasma cannon devastators - same deal. Here's the deal - just because you *can* reroll a scatter dice, doesn't mean you always will. you still get to re-roll a gets hot check.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/12/15 14:09:28
Been out of the game for awhile, trying to find time to get back into it.
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