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How does the Drakeslayer monster hunter bonus work with dedicated transports?

From the wording of the Ironwolves formation, it looks like their dedicated transports are considered part of their formation.
eg. "All Ironwolves vehicles can move..." and "wargear options taken by Ironwolves vehicles..."

"These Dedicated Transports do not use up a slot on the force organisation chart, but count as having the same role as the unit they were bought for all other rules purposes." From the rulebook. I would think that it works like I think it does?

The Drakeslayers formation vehicles would get monster hunter if it worked like this. A dedicated stormwolf with monster hunter doesn't sound bad.

Rasko wrote:
The Drakeslayers formation vehicles would get monster hunter if it worked like this too. A dedicated stormwolf with monster hunter doesn't sound bad.

Monster Hunter on anything Helfrost is a mean way of dealing with stuff like a Riptide. Heck, being able to throw multiple wounds on a Wraithknight per shot is as well. I don't see why it wouldn't affect Dedicated Transports for these units. They are being purchased as part of the formation.

I am actually eyeing the Drakeslayers as an army. I have many of the components already. I could get a couple of the 15-man sets of Blood Claws, build 10 as Grey Hunters to go with my current 10, and 20 as Blood Claws. I have the Terminators already, and Krom. Would just need a box of Long Fangs, and I would have the requirements for that formation. Then just figure out what sort of auxiliary I want, and BOOM, I have a fully functional Space Wolves army to build onto.

Yea, that is a nice buff. I guess it applies to Deathwolve's transports too. You can have the Deathwolf transports outflanking by themselves, which is kind of funny.

On another note, trying to get the Wulfen to work is pretty hard. If you want to make use of the force multiplier effect, all the units that you want to affect AND the wulfen as well, have to be on the field at the start of your turn. Or do you just forget about the force multiplier and run them in a transport.

Not to mention, the only way to field them in the decurion is the damn Murderpack. Assuming 2 TH/SS and 3 claws, they are 235pt a pop. So, you have a 470pt investment foot-slogging it. :S

Yeah, if I end up doing the Drakeslayers, it will be with Drop Pods. I favor 10-man squads for that exact reason. Though I would probably swap the Terminators for regular Wolf Guard if I do that, though I would probably just get a Stormwolf or Stormfang.

EDIT:
By the way, GW, where are our campaign boxed sets like Tau and C:SM got?! I want an Iron Priest in a boxed set with some other dudes, damnit! The ideal would be an Iron Priest, a Wolf Pack, and a Dreadnought. Then do something similar with Chaos. Also, don't put Krom in this, release him as a clam pack character. You're welcome.

Has anyone got sight of Murderfang's formation, The Curseborn.

Would love to see rules for it.

Wraithwing wrote:
Has anyone got sight of Murderfang's formation, The Curseborn.

Would love to see rules for it.

His formation doesn't have a page number. It literally consists of just him. No special rules.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Wraithwing wrote:
Has anyone got sight of Murderfang's formation, The Curseborn.

Would love to see rules for it.

His formation doesn't have a page number. It literally consists of just him. No special rules.

I feel obligated to try this donkey-cave at least one more time... :-p Maybe i'll throw him in a Lucius Pattern Pod and see if he can be a distraction to keep people from shooting at Wulfen for a turn.

Any mention of changes to Wolf Guard?

Just wondering if all power weapons/shields etc may get a points reduction ala V Vets?

Would love to be able to use a tooled up squad without busting the bank!

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Wraithwing wrote:
Has anyone got sight of Murderfang's formation, The Curseborn.

Would love to see rules for it.

His formation doesn't have a page number. It literally consists of just him. No special rules.

I feel obligated to try this donkey-cave at least one more time... :-p Maybe i'll throw him in a Lucius Pattern Pod and see if he can be a distraction to keep people from shooting at Wulfen for a turn.

I really wish that the Curseborne actually was a formation so I could field just him on his own.

Billymac321 wrote:
I have a question. Seeing as how this is not a new codex, can I still use the iron priest from the codex or do I have to use the new one? I would personally rather have the Priest taking up a elite slot than a extra wound.

There is no change to the original codex, the new codex book online is basically a compilation of the old codex+wulfen+champion of fenris. When did IP get a +1 wound?

The IP got +1 wound in this supplement., he also has the option for a helfrost pistol. So there are no updates on the dread profile or any character profiles? Which ebook did you purchase, I saw there was the Wulfen Edition and then the Wulfen Edition Enhanced?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Wraithwing wrote:
Has anyone got sight of Murderfang's formation, The Curseborn.

Would love to see rules for it.

His formation doesn't have a page number. It literally consists of just him. No special rules.

I feel obligated to try this donkey-cave at least one more time... :-p Maybe i'll throw him in a Lucius Pattern Pod and see if he can be a distraction to keep people from shooting at Wulfen for a turn.

Murderfang in a Lucius is really, really good actually. If nothing else, he makes for a great distraction carnifex while your other units move upfield in the cover of the shrouded cone the pod gives you.

So am I to understand there are two ways to play a IP then. One from the codex and one from the supplement. Are both still legal? Or do you have to play with the newest one?

Billymac321 wrote:
So am I to understand there are two ways to play a IP then. One from the codex and one from the supplement. Are both still legal? Or do you have to play with the newest one?

No, there is only the new way. You cannot use older versions of rules for the same unit. The Supplement is not just a supplement - it is also a codex update (coming out in a separate release next week).

beir wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Wraithwing wrote:
Has anyone got sight of Murderfang's formation, The Curseborn.

Would love to see rules for it.

His formation doesn't have a page number. It literally consists of just him. No special rules.

I feel obligated to try this donkey-cave at least one more time... :-p Maybe i'll throw him in a Lucius Pattern Pod and see if he can be a distraction to keep people from shooting at Wulfen for a turn.

Murderfang in a Lucius is really, really good actually. If nothing else, he makes for a great distraction carnifex while your other units move upfield in the cover of the shrouded cone the pod gives you.

Well, he does feel like something that has to be addressed, and a Lucius Pod means a fair bit of shooting will have to be spent on it, that isn't being directed at Wulfen/TWC, etc. I really feel like people are under-estimating Wulfen now, distracted by the bad models, and math-hammer which doesn't account for their force-multiplier value.

A Murder Pack formation can super easily be dropped into anything, and three Wulfen units of 5 (geared to the gills) are not only threatening, but give you, on a 4+ a chance to move TWC 24" BEFORE the charge.

A murder pack really cant be dropped into anything as you are talking at least 500 for 2 units of 5, but if you are really trying for the 7+ result, you need 3 units which is 750 and even then you are hoping to roll a 4+ (which if you dont roll it the first or second turn you probably wont have 3 units anymore.

As far as a force multiplier, I'm sorry but I just dont see it. A 12 inch bubble is good but that only affects Blood Claws and when you look at the most mobile blood claws (bikers and jump packs) they cant use the best rolls on the table- the +1 attack (they have rage) and Hammer of Wrath (they already have it). Now, lets look at units that are affected in the 6 inch bubble (which is REALLY close, hope your opponent didnt bring any pie plates) - many of those units, TWC or Wolves (which would benefit) have to slow down and wait for the Wulfen, which in general you want your TWC in cc as quickly as possible, while Grey Hunters and Wolfguard are too slow to keep up on foot.

Now I am not saying they aren't cool units or that they cant work, what I am saying is for the price, you could thunderwolves already assaulting on turn 2 without having to get lucky and they are too expensive (again my opinion) to take as a distraction unless you are playing very large games (like over 2000 pts). I generally stick to 1500-1850 and that is too much for a distraction.

How many points is a lucius pattern drop pod? I wouldnt mind getting one.

50pts. Its a wonderful Pod and if you deploy it aggressively it has to be removed first, or else it confers, essentially a 3+ cover-save to a decent part of the table. It also comes with its own 5+ cover save so it tends to be a little more obnoxious to remove than a Drop Pod should be.

beir wrote:

Billymac321 wrote:
So am I to understand there are two ways to play a IP then. One from the codex and one from the supplement. Are both still legal? Or do you have to play with the newest one?

No, there is only the new way. You cannot use older versions of rules for the same unit. The Supplement is not just a supplement - it is also a codex update (coming out in a separate release next week).

Thanks for the answer. Will you still be able to use the normal codex force org or even the champions of Fenris one? Or will you have to play the new " Decurion style" ?

Billymac321 wrote:

beir wrote:

Billymac321 wrote:
So am I to understand there are two ways to play a IP then. One from the codex and one from the supplement. Are both still legal? Or do you have to play with the newest one?

No, there is only the new way. You cannot use older versions of rules for the same unit. The Supplement is not just a supplement - it is also a codex update (coming out in a separate release next week).

Thanks for the answer. Will you still be able to use the normal codex force org or even the champions of Fenris one? Or will you have to play the new " Decurion style" ?

Because the codex is still called Codex: Space Wolves (just a new edition), you can use all of the previous force orgs and formations from Champions of Fenris. I really don't know if you can use the Wolves Unleashed anymore (unless it is in the new codex), but really - who cares about that one? It has always been pretty crappy and the new formations do what it did, only better.

You can always use a Combined Arms Detachment or Allied Detachment from the BRB with any 7th edition army as well.

Eh. the Wolves Unleashed isn't horrible. I don't see why they would get rid of it. The only reason to go generic greatpack over WU is if you want a cheap'ish greatpack strictly for the decurion.

One thing to keep in mind is that the decurion doesn't any ANY generic force org charts for heavy/fast attack/elites. Which is actually pretty huge. It means you can't run Wulfen in a pack of 1, you can't run sicarans, you can't buy drop pods for allies, etc. There are quite a few implications... I wouldn't write off the other detachments. If anything, ironically, all the other detachments got better because, would you really want a highly restricted list for counter-charge? Or a MUCH more lenient force org chart (where you can still ally in any formation you want from the campaign)? I still need to playtest counter-charge more but so far, it has been underwhelming.

Rasko wrote:
Eh. the Wolves Unleashed isn't horrible. I don't see why they would get rid of it. The only reason to go generic greatpack over WU is if you want a cheap'ish greatpack strictly for the decurion.

One thing to keep in mind is that the decurion doesn't any ANY generic force org charts for heavy/fast attack/elites. Which is actually pretty huge. It means you can't run Wulfen in a pack of 1, you can't run sicarans, you can't buy drop pods for allies, etc. There are quite a few implications... I wouldn't write off the other detachments. If anything, ironically, all the other detachments got better because, would you really want a highly restricted list for counter-charge? Or a MUCH more lenient force org chart (where you can still ally in any formation you want from the campaign)? I still need to playtest counter-charge more but so far, it has been underwhelming.

I agree completely. Honestly other than a few of the formations the complete detachment ( and all the taxes you have to use) does not interest me.

Quick question: the old SW kit could be built as Blood Claws, Grey Hunters or Wolf Guard, right? Now the repacked kit can't build Wolf Guard anymore and you have to buy the more expensive 5 man kit?

One day I'll need a box to make some Space Bears, so I wan't to know if I have to rush out and get one of the old boxes.

It is still the dame kit.
You can buy the Blood Claw Box and build 15 Wolf Guard if you want.

This is just that people don't have to buy 2 10 Marines Boxes to build 15 Blood Claws (or whatever GW think about it)

No. They have the exact same sprues in all the kits. Blood claws can be built as wolf guard and it's a lot cheaper (unless you only want 5).

Is there any new on the Wolfkin formation? I been looking though te thread but have not seen it.

Waited for clear phots after all the "it's a bad photo, wait for better shots this is normal" talk and even with clear photos now, those models are utter arsegravy. I've got 15 of the old Wulfen which I think I'll ebay tonight, hoover up some suckas cash.

Happy to hear that, then I can wait.

The Wulfen, well, like most current GW kits there're some pieces of pure brilliance in there, let down by super whacky poses and "details" that are just ridiculous clutter destroying perfectly fine parts and price that's twice as expensive as it should be. And GW just can't do good human heads anymore, I don't get it.

For 25€ I would still get them and make awesome CSMs out of them, at their real price I might buy some bits from the kit.

shadowfinder wrote:
Is there any new on the Wolfkin formation? I been looking though te thread but have not seen it.

It is minimum 2 units, gives them monster hunter and outflank. And they can direct any outflanking SW unit to the side that the wolfkin are on if within 12" of that side. They can be played as an alpha unit which gives the wolves +1A if they are 20+ wolfkin.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, I have a question. If I use the Ironwolve's formation and attach an IC to an Ironwolves unit. If the transport moves 12", can my IC unit still disembark?

And #2. The mobile assault ability reads "Ironwolves units can disembark from their transports even if it has moved...". It feels like that means the ability is granted to the unit. So they would be able to disembark even if you moved 12" on a non-dedicated transport. This could be very useful to know because you could spam razorbacks for the Ironwolves formation dedicated transport requirement (for the free weapon platforms). AND just buy rhino's from a CAD or CotGW, while still getting the ability to disembark after a 12" move. That sounds pretty powerful.

So are Iron Priests still elite choices? Or are they HQs now?

HQ's based on the datasheet now.

Also I think the winner is the Iron Wolves by far.

For 1,500pts you can get 2 TWC Battle Leaders, 4x5 Blood Claws in Razors w/Power Axes & Flamers, 8 Land Speeders upgraded to taste, and 2 Long Fang units of 3 with 2 heavies and a melta in Razors.

That's a solid amount of firepower.