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What would you guys say are the pros and cons of taking talos versus taking grotesques? Trying to decide what to buy to add to my collection and support my Kabal.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
What would you guys say are the pros and cons of taking talos versus taking grotesques? Trying to decide what to buy to add to my collection and support my Kabal.

Buy a talos and a crypt horror kit. Use the extra bits from the talos to make Grotesques. I think you can do the same with ogryns but I haven't done it my self.

Stormfiends are really nice for it too. I can pop some pictures up later if you like.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
What would you guys say are the pros and cons of taking talos versus taking grotesques? Trying to decide what to buy to add to my collection and support my Kabal.

If I have to pick between the two, I tend to gravitate towards the Talos. The 3+/4++/6+++ with T7 (can even get a 2+ in cover) is very strong and makes them a little more resilient than Grots against DW and other matchups. Chain flails + Macro scalpels also make the talos more effective against different unit types and you'd be surprised and how effective those haywire blasters can be as well. They're a bit faster and easier to get into your opponent's face. I think the biggest advantage the Grots have over Talos is the ability to move into ruins and buildings.

The other benefit of starting with Talos, is that you can use leftover bits to make Grots.

Just my 2c

 wannabmoy wrote:

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
What would you guys say are the pros and cons of taking talos versus taking grotesques? Trying to decide what to buy to add to my collection and support my Kabal.

If I have to pick between the two, I tend to gravitate towards the Talos. The 3+/4++/6+++ with T7 (can even get a 2+ in cover) is very strong and makes them a little more resilient than Grots against DW and other matchups. Chain flails + Macro scalpels also make the talos more effective against different unit types and you'd be surprised and how effective those haywire blasters can be as well. They're a bit faster and easier to get into your opponent's face. I think the biggest advantage the Grots have over Talos is the ability to move into ruins and buildings.

The other benefit of starting with Talos, is that you can use leftover bits to make Grots.

Just my 2c

Talos have the fly keyword, moving into ruins isnt a problem

This is a harder suggestion to give than you would think. Since you are getting them to support your Kabal...knowing what you have in a list helps, but generally speaking:

If you are buying 3 Grotesques vs 1 Talos I would go with the Talos as it will cover more ground and basically do more work.

If you are buying 9 Grotesques vs 3 Talos I personally like the Grotesque.

Yeah my thinking is right now I have a 1500 kabal list and would be adding this gaggle of weirdos on top of it. I have zero melee threat and was thinking to use these guys as a buffer and beetstick unit. On paper at least the grots seem to cover my ground getting almost 3 for the price of one Talos and have more wounds and damage output between them. but do not have the fly keyword and zero shooting. I was thinking of a vanguard with three units of 3 grots and urien or three seperate talos to fill out the detachment.

(Meant to post this here but put it in the Ynnari thread by mistake.)

I still really want to use the Ynnari Warlord traits and Relics (for flavour reasons), but I accept what was said before - that they don't work well with Kabalite-based lists. My solution was to add a small CWE detachment:



Obviously I have fewer DE units now, but at least they can keep their bonus. And since my DE lists tend to be light on anti-vehicle, I took the opportunity to add in some Dark Reapers and D-Cannons (not least because I already have some converted DE-Reapers and I think I could convert some appropriate-looking support weapons quite easily).

Yvraine will probably buff the Reapers with Ancestor's Grace and use Word of the Phoenix to either revive Reapers or heal the support weapons.

Might see if I can squeeze a Reaper Launcher on the Autarch somehow.


Any thoughts?

Hey guys,

Since I love the looks of the Drukhari Jetbikes and I got my hands on a really cheap Gangs of Commoragh box I ... well lets say I liked the Idea of a lightning fast army and then bought another box, then another one then sold all the hellions and bought more stuff and I now have a pile of models of which I really like the looks but have yet to Play. (... and build ... and paint ... for the most part)

From what I've read a Wych Cult army is considered the lowest tier of Drukhari armies but I really hope I can still make them work in a player group of wannabe Powergamers

What I have piled up so far is the following:

2 Succubi

20 Wyches

4 Venoms

30 Reavers

2 Razorwing Jetfighters

1 Voidraven Bomber

Loaded with Blasters and Lances to the max I should get roughly 1750 Points out of that. My questions are:

Can this madness work? +1A trait for Maximum carnage or Charge after advance for t1 charge reavers? Am I missing something important?

I just found out that puppetswar sells crow models so I plan on getting a beastmaster and a load of Razorwing flocks next to go with the theme.

What I am afraid of is that I may have absolutely zero staying power. Coven Armies are really tough but Reavers feel a little brittle. I am a little scared of going second with this army composition.

What would you do with this army? Help a Drukhari noob out please

I approve of your wantom lack of self control.

Morkphoiz wrote:
Hey guys,

Since I love the looks of the Drukhari Jetbikes and I got my hands on a really cheap Gangs of Commoragh box I ... well lets say I liked the Idea of a lightning fast army and then bought another box, then another one then sold all the hellions and bought more stuff and I now have a pile of models of which I really like the looks but have yet to Play. (... and build ... and paint ... for the most part)

From what I've read a Wych Cult army is considered the lowest tier of Drukhari armies but I really hope I can still make them work in a player group of wannabe Powergamers

What I have piled up so far is the following:

2 Succubi

20 Wyches

4 Venoms

30 Reavers

2 Razorwing Jetfighters

1 Voidraven Bomber

Loaded with Blasters and Lances to the max I should get roughly 1750 Points out of that. My questions are:

Can this madness work? +1A trait for Maximum carnage or Charge after advance for t1 charge reavers? Am I missing something important?

I just found out that puppetswar sells crow models so I plan on getting a beastmaster and a load of Razorwing flocks next to go with the theme.

What I am afraid of is that I may have absolutely zero staying power. Coven Armies are really tough but Reavers feel a little brittle. I am a little scared of going second with this army composition.

What would you do with this army? Help a Drukhari noob out please

If going Reaver heavy consider Ynarri.

Jancoran wrote:I approve of your wantom lack of self control.

I am suffering from a quite severe case of plastic crack addicition... I know that

Drager wrote:If going Reaver heavy consider Ynarri.

No. Nononononono no. I absolutely loathe the Idea of an incoherent looking army. If it wasnt for that I'd have bought Wraithfighters instead of the Drukhari ones.

OK. I'm not sure why having a particular special character makes an army look incoherent though.

I think Drager means just include Yvraine and take the Ynnari trait for your drukhari force. They have some strats and powers that work well with reavers.

shortymcnostrill wrote:
I think Drager means just include Yvraine and take the Ynnari trait for your drukhari force. They have some strats and powers that work well with reavers.

You have to be Ynnari to get those, adding the character just adds... a character.

I do feel Reavers as Ynnari would be better, the DE stratagems are meh for them, take an Outrider of Reavers with Ynnari.

Onto the topic, Reavers are on the weaker side (Both in Defense and Offense) that doesnt mean you cant use them or make them work, just know that they might be lack luster a lot of the time.

But with that said, show everyone you can make them work, math only goes so far you can always make the odds of winning a game in your favor regardless of math (to a point).

 Amishprn86 wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
I think Drager means just include Yvraine and take the Ynnari trait for your drukhari force. They have some strats and powers that work well with reavers.

You have to be Ynnari to get those, adding the character just adds... a character.

I do feel Reavers as Ynnari would be better, the DE stratagems are meh for them, take an Outrider of Reavers with Ynnari.

Onto the topic, Reavers are on the weaker side (Both in Defense and Offense) that doesnt mean you cant use them or make them work, just know that they might be lack luster a lot of the time.

But with that said, show everyone you can make them work, math only goes so far you can always make the odds of winning a game in your favor regardless of math (to a point).

Adding a character gives you the option to say they are Ynarri though, you aren't taking any different models (except the one special character). Not wanting to play them is fine, but they double the effectiveness of Reavers which takes them from meh, they're ok, to a really solid unit. Also the Visarch is still an Incubi and Yvraine a cromorrite (by adoption) in the fluff, even if they are now also their own thing.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
I think Drager means just include Yvraine and take the Ynnari trait for your drukhari force. They have some strats and powers that work well with reavers.

You have to be Ynnari to get those, adding the character just adds... a character.

I do feel Reavers as Ynnari would be better, the DE stratagems are meh for them, take an Outrider of Reavers with Ynnari.

Onto the topic, Reavers are on the weaker side (Both in Defense and Offense) that doesnt mean you cant use them or make them work, just know that they might be lack luster a lot of the time.

But with that said, show everyone you can make them work, math only goes so far you can always make the odds of winning a game in your favor regardless of math (to a point).

Yes. And they are ynnari by taking the character. You don't have to paint them in any colour scheme to be ynnari. Just take special character. You can literally change your regular army to ynnari by adding that special character into the detachment.

Drager wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
I think Drager means just include Yvraine and take the Ynnari trait for your drukhari force. They have some strats and powers that work well with reavers.

You have to be Ynnari to get those, adding the character just adds... a character.

I do feel Reavers as Ynnari would be better, the DE stratagems are meh for them, take an Outrider of Reavers with Ynnari.

Onto the topic, Reavers are on the weaker side (Both in Defense and Offense) that doesnt mean you cant use them or make them work, just know that they might be lack luster a lot of the time.

But with that said, show everyone you can make them work, math only goes so far you can always make the odds of winning a game in your favor regardless of math (to a point).

Adding a character gives you the option to say they are Ynarri though, you aren't taking any different models (except the one special character). Not wanting to play them is fine, but they double the effectiveness of Reavers which takes them from meh, they're ok, to a really solid unit. Also the Visarch is still an Incubi and Yvraine a cromorrite (by adoption) in the fluff, even if they are now also their own thing.

tneva82 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
I think Drager means just include Yvraine and take the Ynnari trait for your drukhari force. They have some strats and powers that work well with reavers.

You have to be Ynnari to get those, adding the character just adds... a character.

I do feel Reavers as Ynnari would be better, the DE stratagems are meh for them, take an Outrider of Reavers with Ynnari.

Onto the topic, Reavers are on the weaker side (Both in Defense and Offense) that doesnt mean you cant use them or make them work, just know that they might be lack luster a lot of the time.

But with that said, show everyone you can make them work, math only goes so far you can always make the odds of winning a game in your favor regardless of math (to a point).

Yes. And they are ynnari by taking the character. You don't have to paint them in any colour scheme to be ynnari. Just take special character. You can literally change your regular army to ynnari by adding that special character into the detachment.

Calm down guys ffs, i didnt see 1 word and thought he said to take just Yvarine.

But again, i agree Ynnari would be better, and it is a "coherent looking army" B.c DE has Lady Malys aka Yvarine

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Spoiler:

Drager wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
I think Drager means just include Yvraine and take the Ynnari trait for your drukhari force. They have some strats and powers that work well with reavers.

You have to be Ynnari to get those, adding the character just adds... a character.

I do feel Reavers as Ynnari would be better, the DE stratagems are meh for them, take an Outrider of Reavers with Ynnari.

Onto the topic, Reavers are on the weaker side (Both in Defense and Offense) that doesnt mean you cant use them or make them work, just know that they might be lack luster a lot of the time.

But with that said, show everyone you can make them work, math only goes so far you can always make the odds of winning a game in your favor regardless of math (to a point).

Adding a character gives you the option to say they are Ynarri though, you aren't taking any different models (except the one special character). Not wanting to play them is fine, but they double the effectiveness of Reavers which takes them from meh, they're ok, to a really solid unit. Also the Visarch is still an Incubi and Yvraine a cromorrite (by adoption) in the fluff, even if they are now also their own thing.

tneva82 wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

shortymcnostrill wrote:
I think Drager means just include Yvraine and take the Ynnari trait for your drukhari force. They have some strats and powers that work well with reavers.

You have to be Ynnari to get those, adding the character just adds... a character.

I do feel Reavers as Ynnari would be better, the DE stratagems are meh for them, take an Outrider of Reavers with Ynnari.

Onto the topic, Reavers are on the weaker side (Both in Defense and Offense) that doesnt mean you cant use them or make them work, just know that they might be lack luster a lot of the time.

But with that said, show everyone you can make them work, math only goes so far you can always make the odds of winning a game in your favor regardless of math (to a point).

Yes. And they are ynnari by taking the character. You don't have to paint them in any colour scheme to be ynnari. Just take special character. You can literally change your regular army to ynnari by adding that special character into the detachment.

Calm down guys ffs, i didnt see 1 word and thought he said to take just Yvarine.

But again, i agree Ynnari would be better, and it is a "coherent looking army" B.c DE has Lady Malys aka Yvarine

I was agreeing with you, in what I thought was quite a calm way! Sorry for the misunderstanding.

NP!

But it makes me miss our old HQ's again lol, i need to make a Yvarine into a Lady Malys for my DE.

How does Ynaari make Reavers a solid unit?

 rayphoton wrote:
How does Ynaari make Reavers a solid unit?

Here you go, quoted from the Ynarri thread.

Drager wrote:
Incidentally, I've done a little bit of calculation on return on investment in a single turn for a few options. I've pitted Ynarri Shining Spears and Ynarri reavers against each other, Strife Reavers and Black Heart ravagers. Both ynarri units come out looking pretty decent. When I say all units have reroll 1s in the assumption, obviously the Strife reavers don't for shooting as that's not possible for them.

The whole numbers are wounds suffered after all defences. The ROI is a percentage of the attacking units points returned in a single turn. This includes shooting and charging (except the Ravager, no charge there). It doesn't included supporting units as they are mandatory HQs and all cost about the same.

I dont understand that, is is 12 reavers dealing 13 wounds to a Crimson Hunter? b.c even with +1 attack drug i only come out to about 10 wounds, 11 with shooting.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I dont understand that, is is 12 reavers dealing 13 wounds to a Crimson Hunter? b.c even with +1 attack drug i only come out to about 10 wounds, 11 with shooting.

2 Mortals from Grav Talons.

I think what bugs me about the "Ynnari Reavers are amazing" argument is that Reavers have had access to full Doom for the whole edition prior to this and haven't been lighting up the tabletop. Maybe the +1 to hit and other buffs help them, but they still have the same issues - they're still relatively fragile and other units are stronger.

Hell, even in your comparison Alaitoc Spears will outdamage them against everything except horde units, and even then it's close.

Drager wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I dont understand that, is is 12 reavers dealing 13 wounds to a Crimson Hunter? b.c even with +1 attack drug i only come out to about 10 wounds, 11 with shooting.

2 Mortals from Grav Talons.

Ah i didnt know you added those ok that makes since now.

 Burnage wrote:
I think what bugs me about the "Ynnari Reavers are amazing" argument is that Reavers have had access to full Doom for the whole edition prior to this and haven't been lighting up the tabletop. Maybe the +1 to hit and other buffs help them, but they still have the same issues - they're still relatively fragile and other units are stronger.

Hell, even in your comparison Alaitoc Spears will outdamage them against everything except horde units, and even then it's close.

The extra damage for the spears is almost always overkill, excpet in the case of Knights which is a bad target for Reavers. The problem with Doom is it can only hit one target and it's almost always better to use it to boost shooting or to kill a hard target. Reavers are great at killing hordes and planes with the +1 to hit and a doom like power, but that power is in addition to Doom (if you want) not instead and you can hit 2 targets a turn with the Strat and the power, this opens up the benefit to be used with Reavers without the opportunity cost of not having Doom elsewhere. With Ravagers now unable to get a Doom equivalent at all it swings the pendulum. If you are taking Craftworld units with Doom, then why not take Reavers with unibind souls as well? Then you have 2 amazingly efficient units instead of 1. That has never been an option before. Getting 25% more hits (19.4% greater hit chance) is also massively significant in addition to the reroll to wound.

I love Reavers, they're my favourite unit, but because I am a competetive player they've been benched all edition. Now, though, with Ynnari, they are one of the best units in the codex and even have a boost to sruvivability (if you want to use Shield of Ynnead with them).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Drager wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I dont understand that, is is 12 reavers dealing 13 wounds to a Crimson Hunter? b.c even with +1 attack drug i only come out to about 10 wounds, 11 with shooting.

2 Mortals from Grav Talons.

Ah i didnt know you added those ok that makes since now.

Sorry, I mentioned it in the Ynnari thread, but not in the initial post. It makes everything very close to the same points and is a great addition to the Reavers.

Drager wrote:

 Burnage wrote:
I think what bugs me about the "Ynnari Reavers are amazing" argument is that Reavers have had access to full Doom for the whole edition prior to this and haven't been lighting up the tabletop. Maybe the +1 to hit and other buffs help them, but they still have the same issues - they're still relatively fragile and other units are stronger.

Hell, even in your comparison Alaitoc Spears will outdamage them against everything except horde units, and even then it's close.

The extra damage for the spears is almost always overkill, excpet in the case of Knights which is a bad target for Reavers. The problem with Doom is it can only hit one target and it's almost always better to use it to boost shooting or to kill a hard target. Reavers are great at killing hordes and planes with the +1 to hit and a doom like power, but that power is in addition to Doom (if you want) not instead and you can hit 2 targets a turn with the Strat and the power, this opens up the benefit to be used with Reavers without the opportunity cost of not having Doom elsewhere. With Ravagers now unable to get a Doom equivalent at all it swings the pendulum. If you are taking Craftworld units with Doom, then why not take Reavers with unibind souls as well? Then you have 2 amazingly efficient units instead of 1. That has never been an option before. Getting 25% more hits (19.4% greater hit chance) is also massively significant in addition to the reroll to wound.

I love Reavers, they're my favourite unit, but because I am a competetive player they've been benched all edition. Now, though, with Ynnari, they are one of the best units in the codex and even have a boost to sruvivability (if you want to use Shield of Ynnead with them).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Drager wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I dont understand that, is is 12 reavers dealing 13 wounds to a Crimson Hunter? b.c even with +1 attack drug i only come out to about 10 wounds, 11 with shooting.

2 Mortals from Grav Talons.

Ah i didnt know you added those ok that makes since now.

Sorry, I mentioned it in the Ynnari thread, but not in the initial post. It makes everything very close to the same points and is a great addition to the Reavers.

I just miss their old rules so much it doesnt feel the same playing them anymore.

I was playing DE competitively in 7th (yes that was a thing) and i ran 3x6 units of the with Caltrops (6D6 HoW hits) with the flyby and the HoW hits, it made them fun, one of the more fun units in the game IMO.

Now they are just basic melee units that goes fast.

With Ynnari i'll give them a try again, i still feel they are to squishy for what they do, but 1 unit of 9-12 with T5 and a 5++ might make them playable for me.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Spoiler:

Drager wrote:

 Burnage wrote:
I think what bugs me about the "Ynnari Reavers are amazing" argument is that Reavers have had access to full Doom for the whole edition prior to this and haven't been lighting up the tabletop. Maybe the +1 to hit and other buffs help them, but they still have the same issues - they're still relatively fragile and other units are stronger.

Hell, even in your comparison Alaitoc Spears will outdamage them against everything except horde units, and even then it's close.

The extra damage for the spears is almost always overkill, excpet in the case of Knights which is a bad target for Reavers. The problem with Doom is it can only hit one target and it's almost always better to use it to boost shooting or to kill a hard target. Reavers are great at killing hordes and planes with the +1 to hit and a doom like power, but that power is in addition to Doom (if you want) not instead and you can hit 2 targets a turn with the Strat and the power, this opens up the benefit to be used with Reavers without the opportunity cost of not having Doom elsewhere. With Ravagers now unable to get a Doom equivalent at all it swings the pendulum. If you are taking Craftworld units with Doom, then why not take Reavers with unibind souls as well? Then you have 2 amazingly efficient units instead of 1. That has never been an option before. Getting 25% more hits (19.4% greater hit chance) is also massively significant in addition to the reroll to wound.

I love Reavers, they're my favourite unit, but because I am a competetive player they've been benched all edition. Now, though, with Ynnari, they are one of the best units in the codex and even have a boost to sruvivability (if you want to use Shield of Ynnead with them).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

Drager wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I dont understand that, is is 12 reavers dealing 13 wounds to a Crimson Hunter? b.c even with +1 attack drug i only come out to about 10 wounds, 11 with shooting.

2 Mortals from Grav Talons.

Ah i didnt know you added those ok that makes since now.

Sorry, I mentioned it in the Ynnari thread, but not in the initial post. It makes everything very close to the same points and is a great addition to the Reavers.

I just miss their old rules so much it doesnt feel the same playing them anymore.

I was playing DE competitively in 7th (yes that was a thing) and i ran 3x6 units of the with Caltrops (6D6 HoW hits) with the flyby and the HoW hits, it made them fun, one of the more fun units in the game IMO.

Now they are just basic melee units that goes fast.

With Ynnari I'll give them a try again, i still feel they are to squishy for what they do, but 1 unit of 9-12 with T5 and a 5++ might make them playable for me.

Yeah, I liked them then too. I think my favourite time for them was 5th, I had a list with 36 that did well, also had Guardian Jetbikes in my allies.

I've played competetive DE since 3rd, through all the editions so I'm familiar with the 7th ed verison. It was fun. I tended to run them with craftwrold allies for that sweet 2+ cover save.

Morkphoiz wrote:
Hey guys,

Since I love the looks of the Drukhari Jetbikes and I got my hands on a really cheap Gangs of Commoragh box I ... well lets say I liked the Idea of a lightning fast army and then bought another box, then another one then sold all the hellions and bought more stuff and I now have a pile of models of which I really like the looks but have yet to Play. (... and build ... and paint ... for the most part)

From what I've read a Wych Cult army is considered the lowest tier of Drukhari armies but I really hope I can still make them work in a player group of wannabe Powergamers

What I have piled up so far is the following:

2 Succubi

20 Wyches

4 Venoms

30 Reavers

2 Razorwing Jetfighters

1 Voidraven Bomber

Loaded with Blasters and Lances to the max I should get roughly 1750 Points out of that. My questions are:

Can this madness work? +1A trait for Maximum carnage or Charge after advance for t1 charge reavers? Am I missing something important?

I just found out that puppetswar sells crow models so I plan on getting a beastmaster and a load of Razorwing flocks next to go with the theme.

What I am afraid of is that I may have absolutely zero staying power. Coven Armies are really tough but Reavers feel a little brittle. I am a little scared of going second with this army composition.

What would you do with this army? Help a Drukhari noob out please

Reavers do 1 thing, and they do it better than anything else. They go bleeding fast! 26 inches and then charge.

When you put Reavers on the board you need to understand everyone one of those screaming maniacs wants to be the first to die historic on the glory road.

With that force you are going to smash over their front line like a crashing wave. Turn 1 if you want to. No one can hide from 30 bikes.

But if the enemy survives, and they will, you just don't hit that hard, you will need something to follow up with. And I don't see it in that list. Maybe the air power, I don't know I don't run them.

I follow up with Covens. It works well as a one two punch in my list. You want to stay pure Cults I can respect that but the Cults are weak on brusiers. They don't really have anything tough and strong and hard hitting. Maybe a Tantalus?

I run Red Grief, better Sucubus, and I really don't care how many attacks my wytches and Reavers have. I've run it both ways and I really don't. If my knife eared psychos are in combat thats all that matters. But like I said I have real killers coming up right behind them.

Good luck. It will be a fun list to play and at least your games will be short.