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No idea why they would have deleted it. Your guess is as good as mine.

I've got no idea how bartertown works, so forgive me if I ask a dumb question. It's basically a site to set up trades, list your items or wantlists, co-ordinate deals and such? And the bad trader posts basically are there to keep people honest, and notify other potential victims of unscrupulous people.

If that's basically correct, then the main question I'd ask is "Did you use bartertown to contact TDZ, or did he find you from a post you made on bartertown?" If BT wasn't involved in the trade at all, they might have deleted your post for that reason. They aren't collecting information on bad traders, just bad traders that are using BT.

Just guessing on this one.

Hopefully you get your stuff soon. Ordering from GW's Bitz service takes a bit longer than ordering in stock items. (1 to 3 weeks for Mailorder, vs. less than a week for normal orders.)  Chaos Hounds just moved out of the regular range, I think,  and although some stores may still have them in stock, an independent store can't order them from Trade Sales, but can get them as bitz from mailorder.

For me, having the Direct Order Point in my store, I get bitz orders in about 10 days average, but they always say 2 to 3 weeks. I have had some orders take as long as 3 weeks to get to me. If TDZ ordered them about halfway through Feb., he probably didn't get them till first of March, and maybe a week later. That was the point when he had a death in the family, stuff backed up, and things stopped getting shipped out. Hopefully your order is on it's way to you soon.

Posted By Iorek on 03/19/2007 6:12 PM
Bad trader alert posted on Bartertown.

Click the link above if you really want to see the transcript of this monstrosity.

It was up for a bit, I saw it. I think it got nuked because you stated you saw the TDZ ad on Dakka, not Bartertown. Just a guess.

You can't post bad trader references for people you didn't start a trade on from bartertown. Thats why it went away.

Posted By Nuwisha on 03/19/2007 9:21 PM
You can't post bad trader references for people you didn't start a trade on from bartertown. Thats why it went away.

Makes sense I suppose.

That makes sense.  I just did it as AncientSociety recommended it as a course of action.

Exactly.

It wasn't a bad idea to do it though. As you saw, there are about 5 other threads dedicated to TDZ from people who contacted him, or were contacted by him, on Bartertown.

Welcome to B-town Iorek. Don't judge the site by one POS. It's full of good traders.

Posted By Iorek on 03/20/2007 4:56 AM
That makes sense.  I just did it as AncientSociety recommended it as a course of action.

Yes it was there for a while. I read it, and was looking for it this morning.

But they only deal with bartertown problems, not other ones...

Nothing to see around here. Move along....

Oh, I know it's mostly good traders.  I actually used it in its infancy back in the late 90's, but I'll be darned if I can remember that old user name.  I mostly just use Dakka for trades, but I may start frequenting B-Town.  I do have a painted marine army that I'll be looking to dump in a few months.

Thanks!

Ok first of all, Ancient... seriously, your conspiracy theory about all of this is getting a little out of hand.

By the way,
That doesn't mean that ANY TRADE FROM ANY SITE be posted to his ITL... ONLY BARTERTOWN TRADES.

Iorek, its not overly bad that you posted the BTR, we aren't going to go all nuts on you and bop you with a newspaper or anything. Its simply that we don't handle bad trades originating from other sites. Much like not being able to post about someone who scammed you on ebay in the BTR section. Despite whatever AncientSociety wants to believe, the thread only went away because it wasn't something that originated on bartertown.

Its silly to think we'd decide to delete Ioreks thread when it badmouths TDZ when there are five other threads from other customers on there from other people. I do hope he gets your stuff to you Iorek, but I do not have any contact with Robert myself.

Yeah, Lin just PM'ed me about it and clarified things for me.  That's what I get for reading the other posts but not the posting rules.  It makes sense, and I just didn't think about it.  On the plus side, it did get me over to Bartertown again.

Well I hope you have fun there. And bring the evil monkey!

I brought the angry polar bear; I should change it here, too.

Well, check this out.  It's a regular meeting of the BT moderators over here. :-)

The Bad Trader Forum's rules clearly state that it is for Bartertown-based transactions only.  That's it.  Not Dakka, or eBay, or anywhere else.

Now, for these others (Good Trader and ITL)...there's nothing specifically posted that states "Thou Must Do This."  In any event, there will be a new set of rules that will spell this out for everyone coming soon.  In both the Good Trader Forum as well as the ITL users must create a Bartertown Account in order to post something there.

Moving on...
Starslayer, shame on you.  We have one dust-up about trade practice and you have to squirrel over here to *female dog* about how much you think we're coddling Robert?  If we coddled him, do you really think I would have suspended him for two weeks for threadjacking?  Would I leave up all the bad trader reports, even the resolved ones? 
That's the thing people forget:  I don't care who someone is, if they break the rules they face the consequence.  Even if they owe me stuff, which is a whole other issue.

IGFan:  Yes, Hearsay:  Unverifiable statements made by anonymous or potentially biased claimants.  I am a federal librarian and if a source has no veracity, if it can't be proven, it is disregarded until such time as it can be proven.  Also, Mikhaila never posted anything on BTown (at least not under that username).  Robert's allegations against the callers were non-specific, so he wasn't sanctioned for them in much the same manner as unprovable allegations made by people against him were not sanctioned.

So what you are saying is that TDZ is not potentially biased? I would claim the reverse actually, he is very biased as he is one of the involved parties. Anyway, I don't care either way if the guy received threats or not, I do not use Bartertown nor this guy's service, I was just writing what I thought as a neutral third party who got interested in this thread and I do not have to either apologise for it nor explain any further to you, especially since my opinion on his shady practices was not posted on your site but in this forum.

I know what hearsay is, I do not know what a federal librarian is as I am not American and to me a librarian is a person who helps you find books and then returns them back to their shelves or stacks at night (so your credentials do not awe me, do not impress me, nor do they make you an authority on hearsay in my eyes, as I find it doubtful that they are much different than those of a normal, non-federal librarian), and finally I would trust Mikhaila more than TDZ, as the former appears to be the voice of reason while the latter is quite defensive and rude towards people who are his clients, allowing me to stipulate that he in fact did not receive any threats.

I would venture as far as to say that he did not even have a death in the family as apparently this is the second time he has played this card. I mean, other people's close relatives who were loved have died before and will die in the future, even many of mine, it takes us a day or two to get over it, organise a funeral and attend it, and that's the end of it. They are dead, their troubles are over. Should we jump into the funeral pyre with them? It does not take over a month to get back in whatever business you are in and I know this for a fact and from experience. As I wrote previously, even if the death is real (and my condolences for his loss if so), trouble with his business started before it happened and he happily posted on other threads while he was too "grief-stricken" or "busy" with the death to deal with his paying customers, leading me to believe that it was just an excuse for him to buy time. Finally, his general attitude towards customers is insulting to say the least, and even if all his excuses were real and credible there is no excuse for the behaviour he has demonstrated.

Ok, LIN,prove me wrong. Tell us 1 thing Btown has done to stir TDZ into action?
Its quite beneath you to think this is about our prior "dust-up on trade practices",its not. I came here to *female dog*,well what choice do you leave anyone? TDZ threads get locked on Btown.

I'd like to know point blank. ....how long is this going to go on???
We all know this could be wrapped up in a WEEK tops.
Have the item in hand? Ship it. Priority 3 day with tracking/delivery confirmation.
Don't have the item? Paypal refund.
Whats the hold up???

IMHO you treatment of Ancient Society is discouraging others from coming forward. How many bad deals does it take for Btown to turn down a sponsor? 10? 100? More? Or doesnt it matter? Like it or not,what the TDZ does to Btown members represents Bartertown.

I have respect for Btown and its Mods,but I think this has gone on way too long. Want these TDZ threads to go away? TDZ needs to ship or refund.

People deserve 1)the items they ordered in timely manner,2) decent communication if a problem arises,3) good customer service or 4)a REFUND. The first three went out the window,so whats left?

Posted By Linrandir on 03/20/2007 9:24 AM
  I am a federal librarian

That is the funniest credential I have heard.  

I know that a bad trade is to be expected every now and then, but to have that many posts, plus almost fifteen pages over here should give someone cause to take notice.

I don't see why BT doesn't drop this guy. advertiser or not, this guy has miffed WAY too many people. And then to come over here and defend a bad decision, and try to put the blame elsewhere... no, This guy is a scam artist. Too many coincidences for just having a bad day, or bad luck.

As for the Federal Librarian buisiness, sure, whatever. The bottom line here is that you all have a shady trader on your hands and instead of dealing with it, some parties are washing thier hands of the guy. I looked over most of the threads, and they basiclly come down to cop out.
For this guy, its someone elses fault, and if you pay me it'll make it all better. Thats bull, and everyone knows it. Hes doing this on purpose, and it has been going on as long, and will continue, as long as he can string you all along.

Time to pull his library card.

Guess you missed the part of Lin's post where he said he was trying to get items owed from TDZ also. He's in the same boat as Iorek and the others.

There is more going on here than I will make publicly available.  It is the professional thing to do, and those of you in business will understand that One Does Not Air One's Dirty Laundry In Public.

The relevant parties are aware of what's going on and the decisions that have been made for quite longer than this silliness, so don't anyone get a swelled head that you influenced anything.  You didn't and you haven't. 

People who have asked nicely and agreed to confidentiality have been advised of the situation.  The rest of you can wait until it is resolved.

Now, regarding the Drop Zone threads on the Bad Trader Forum:  I am a firm believer in Equal Protection Under the Law.  Drop Zone is entitled to the same protections that everyone else would - not because he's a paying advertiser but because that is the way I designed the site rules.  I'm not bending the rules because he owes me stuff.
That means all threads and all posts must follow the posting rules, which can be summed up thusly:  Factual Information Only.  The federal librarian bit means this:  I hold two master's degrees in informatics and library science.  I know how easy it is to manipulate information and twist it around, so I require a high standard of evidence.  I verify, or ask to have verification for, just about everything I'm told.  In my opinion, anyone who accepts something on blind faith is asking to be taken advantage of.
 Yeah, that stance means some jackholes get away but the ones who get nailed are *proven* with a standard of evidence that one can successfully file US mail fraud charges.

In closing, if you have a beef with Drop Zone take it up with him.  It's not Bartertown's problem any more than it is Dakka's.

Iorek: Sorry for advising you to post a BTR on BT about your order. I thought you were one of the several people WAY, WAY back on pg 6 or so who mentioned that they had been directed thru BT. My info was incorrect and it led to way too much drama.

Drama Pajama Par-tay! *dances*

No problem, Ancient Society, I know you were trying to help.

As a member of the OT Brigade, I'm usually trying to stir things up a bit, but the one time I wasn't, I end up with a 15+ page thread and mods from Bartertown joining in!  Sheesh!

So, apologies for all that were dragged into Charybdis here.

Group hug guys?

Posted By Linrandir on 03/20/2007 4:48 PM
There is more going on here than I will make publicly available.  It is the professional thing to do, and those of you in business will understand that One Does Not Air One's Dirty Laundry In Public.

The relevant parties are aware of what's going on and the decisions that have been made for quite longer than this silliness, so don't anyone get a swelled head that you influenced anything.  You didn't and you haven't. 

People who have asked nicely and agreed to confidentiality have been advised of the situation.  The rest of you can wait until it is resolved.

*on the professionalism of airing one's dirty laundry in public*
In PR this is called making a crisis release -- it's what you do to reassure and inform your clients when something is greatly impacting your company and your ability to serve them.

*on the relevant parties being aware of what's going on*
The relevant parties are the clients. 15 pages here of internet anger suggest to me that they are not much aware at all.

I'd like to echo Starslayer here:

<table width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="4" border="0"> <tbody> <tr> <td class="afpostbody" colspan="2">

People deserve 1)the items they ordered in timely manner,2) decent communication if a problem arises,3) good customer service or 4)a REFUND.

</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="afpostattach" colspan="2"> </td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Well, I'm not a member of Barter Town ( BT ) and from reading the various posts, especially from the Top MOD over there, I must say I happy NOT to be a member.

When I look at the tolerance and understanding the MODS from Dakka have given this situation, and compare it to the "crap" I'm reading from the BT mob, all I can say is its disgraceful.

Linrandir

It seems to me that the only reason you've stepped down from your mighty horse and posted on Dakka is to defend the "good" name of BT?!?! And you talk about "washing your dirty laundry in public"......I find it laughable that you suggest that "certain" members of your website are privvy to whats going on and the rest can wait.....well, again, thats support right there! You almost make it sound as it the "masses" who have been ripped off by TDZ are at fault.

I also find it offensive that you have the cheek to use words like silliness in relation to this thread, when in actual fact its your comments that have helped to direct the turn in thread direction. If you've got everything so "sorted" over at BT, then why come onto another forum feeling a need to defend yourself?

Is there a reason this hate fest hasn't been locked down yet? All interested parties are up to speed. There is no need to keep this cyber-war going for everyone to see...

Actually, I'm not up to speed.  I've called numerous times and sent several emails to Robert in the last few days, and he STILL hasn't responded.  He's got until Friday before I open up a PayPal dispute on him (I've already emailed him cancelling the transaction and requesting a refund).

And this is a personal message to Robert:  On your ad, it says, "The Game is about Battles - buying your models shouldn't be!".  You forgot to add, "But it will be, chumps.  You'll never hear from me again!".