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kirsanth wrote:

DJ Illuminati wrote:in the IG codex it appears as a LR Squadron

Again does it really matter to you people? Can't you accept that you can't technically take one by RAW, but that it will never effect you, as tournaments will go with the 'ard Boyz ruling, and no one would ever deny you it in a friendly game?

It matters a great deal to me that certain people lord it up around here with the notion that they have some divine link to the writers of this game and can interpret this as 'truth'. I don't like gurus. Especially when they are wrong and especially when they are wrong and don't even have the balls to admit they are wrong.

Leman Russ Battle Tank = one of the choices of leman russ for a squadron (squadron, a type of fething UNIT), also available as a 0-1 tank choice for the owners of DH and WH armies everywhere, subject to Lumbering Behemoth rule, can use the upgrades listed for the leman russ battle tank as listed as one of the leman russ squadron choices.


I cannot accept I technically can't take one since I technically fething can, the WH codex, the imperial guard codex, the daemonhunter codex and the motherloving rulebook clearly state it a viable choice. The dreamed up little prohibitive loophole that has been touted here is total nonsense designed with no further use than wasting peoples time and giving the illusion certain individuals are fonts of all knowledge.

-Yawn-
God-Emperor, you're still arguing?

Look it's simple. The Unit "Leman Russ Battle Tank" no longer exists in the Imperial Guard Codex, it was Replaced by the Leman Russ Squadron.

As such, WH/DH cannot take them. It doesn't matter because most people will cheat and let you use it anyway, or they will just take a IG Parent list and add DH/WH allies, and therefore avoid the whole problem.

Seriously, all you "Gwar is a mean man" people just give it a rest. You are wrong, but me being right doesn't change anything either.


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MasterSlowPoke wrote:Again does it really matter to you people? Can't you accept that you can't technically take one by RAW, but that it will never effect you, as tournaments will go with the 'ard Boyz ruling, and no one would ever deny you it in a friendly game?

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise you ran my tournaments for me or my friendly games.

Oddly enough, when I do it, we play by the rules!

Ok, everyone execpt Gwar, who thinks that GW's rules are perfect.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:Ok, everyone execpt Gwar, who thinks that GW's rules are perfect.

Did I ever say they were perfect? No, I didn't. However, they are there for a reason. If you don't follow them, what is the point of playing the game? If you want to have fun while using rules, play 40k, if you want to ignore rules, play D&D or LARP.

So you wouldn't ever play against someone using one of the BoLS minidexes?

What's wrong with using the 'ard Boys clarifications? I'd say it has as much weight as an FAQ.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:So you wouldn't ever play against someone using one of the BoLS minidexes?

In a pre arranged game? Sure. In a Random "lolololololiwannausethisinternetcodexlol" pickup game? No.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:It matters a great deal to me that certain people lord it up around here with the notion that they have some divine link to the writers of this game and can interpret this as 'truth'. I don't like gurus. Especially when they are wrong and especially when they are wrong and don't even have the balls to admit they are wrong.

What you have done , and still doing, is no different. That makes you sir , a hypocrite.

The only difference here really , is more people agree to Gwar's interpretation then yours.

The dreamed up little prohibitive loophole that has been touted here is total nonsense designed with no further use than wasting peoples time and giving the illusion certain individuals are fonts of all knowledge.

Just keep telling yourself that , doesnt make your interpretation any more right.

See as i said again , when ever Gwar is trying to solve a rule issue , there will be people like you , that HAVE to include the extra rubbish in the argument. I'll high light them for you for example.

Keep It Out.

I find it ironic , how Gwar can be banned for saying he is right , all at the same time all these petty attacks that have NOTHING to do with the rules discussion gets
thrown around freely with 0 consequences.

Gwar! wrote:In a pre arranged game? Sure. In a Random "lolololololiwannausethisinternetcodexlol" pickup game? No.

But by RaW (Rambings Articulated by gWar) you only play with GW's rules!

Even Ard Boyz rules are inconsistent. One year Dedicated Transports aren't KPs and the next year they are.

Gwar! wrote:
Oddly enough, when I do it, we play by the rules!

As you see fit to interpret them, wrongly.

Oh and /yawn yourself, your inability to admit defeat speaks volumes about your 'friendly' games... All I can see is you getting stuck on a daily basis trying to push doors clearly marked 'pull'.

Gwar! i have just read this whole thing , let me sum up what i see.

Page 1 question is raised , debate starts.
Page 2 debate ended , with 2 sides unable to agree.
Page 3 same reasoning / lack of reasoning is used / recycled
Page 4 same reasoning / lack of reasoning is used / recycled small personal attacks thrown in to attack gwar
Page 5 same reasoning / lack of reasoning is used / recycled even more attacks
Page 6 Discussion turns into more about attacking gwar then original topic.
Page 7? Gwar runs out of patience from the attacks / he retorts .
Page 7 - X (days for 1 month ) Gwar is banned on Dakka dakka.

So, because there is no such thing as a "leman russ" anymore they cant be taken? feth it, i would allow it without any problems what so ever.
If anyone denied it i would just think they are a dick.
Just because they are now available to guard in a squad rather than a single tank does not mean that that type of tank in its self has been removed from the game, it still exists and it is still used.

Now, there is sticking to the rules, and then being a dick head about rules, this would fall under the 2nd catagory in my books.

For those that complain that word changes should be . . . glossed over, see: Daemonic Infestation.


Still.

LunaHound wrote:Gwar! i have just read this whole thing , let me sum up what i see.

Page 1 question is raised , debate starts.
Page 2 debate ended , with 2 sides unable to agree.
Page 3 same reasoning / lack of reasoning is used / recycled
Page 4 same reasoning / lack of reasoning is used / recycled small personal attacks thrown in to attack gwar
Page 5 same reasoning / lack of reasoning is used / recycled even more attacks
Page 6 Discussion turns into more about attacking gwar then original topic.
Page 7? Gwar runs out of patience from the attacks / he retorts .
Page 7 - X (days for 1 month ) Gwar is banned on Dakka dakka.

QFT. However I have decided to not take the bait this time and as such am not going to make any sort of attacks against others no matter what I receive (because I am such a nice guy).

@JD21290: Yes, it sucks. Even I say it Sucks. But them's the breaks. This is GRIMDARK40k™, not Happy Fluffy Hello Kitty

Gwar, lets face it here mate, if someone was to use a russ in a game against you would it bother you?
for me, i wouldnt give a feth. (lets face it, witch hunters need help)

To be honest, its one of those dumbass things GW never took into account when writing (shock horror!, this is a 1st) rules.
I would just ignore the new "russ squadren" and take a single one using options available to witch hunters previously.

Im willing to bet that if/when witch hunters do get an update (and the question gets raised) it will be allowed to take them as RAI rather than how GW has fethed them about.

JD21290 wrote:So, because there is no such thing as a "leman russ" anymore they cant be taken? feth it, i would allow it without any problems what so ever.

They do exist in the codex, they have a point value they are the exact same name as stated in the WH codex, in one out of 3 listings they fall into a squadron,that one listing is what the fuss is about, and most non TFG players dont view this as an issue.

The problem with these threads as it sets a precedence for rulings....some new player decides to google it and see's the TFG interpretation of RAW and plays that way.

JD21290 wrote:Gwar, lets face it here mate, if someone was to use a russ in a game against you would it bother you?

Would you be annoyed if my Grey Hunters Disembarked from a Rhino that had moved 12", Shot then Charged you?

I would just ignore the new "russ squadren" and take a single one using options available to witch hunters previously.

So can I ignore the 4th and 5th editions of the game so I can make my Grey Hunters better?


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R3con wrote:They do exist in the codex, they have a point value they are the exact same name as stated in the WH codex, in one out of 3 listings they fall into a squadron,that one listing is what the fuss is about, and most non TFG players dont view this as an issue.

The problem with these threads as it sets a precedence for rulings....some new player decides to google it and see's the TFG interpretation of RAW and plays that way.

Yes, they exist in the codex, but not as a unit the IG can buy. They can buy The unit "Leman Russ Squadron", but not the unit "Leman Russ Battle Tank".

As for your TFG attack, how is it bad to get newbies to play by the rules?

Gwar, please state how GK's are similar in effect to losing a vehicle due to the wording in a new dex.

and if you got your gak together and came down to london for a game i wouldnt mind your grey hunters moving 12, shooting then charging me, bloodletters would do fine


Edit: Saw your edit
The leman russ battle tank still exists, and guard use them.
Squadren is just a collective term for them.
Much like a flock of birds, or a swarm of trolls.


As for the TFG attack, i take offence to that!

Gwar is not "that fething guy" he is "THE FETHING GUY"

JD21290 wrote:

As for the TFG attack, i take offence to that!

Gwar is not "that fething guy" he is "THE FETHING GUY"

If he's not TFG, what in the world could be? haha. Arguing over a slight difference in wording is pretty hard to beat.

Simple, Gwar is a 1 of a kind critter, he is not in status of TFG as they tend to be complete and utter donkey-caves, Gwar on the other hand isnt, he aint a bad guy
He simply states how the rules have been written and what effect they have due to wording, may piss off some people, but lifes a bitch eh?

LunaHound wrote:

MeanGreenStompa wrote:It matters a great deal to me that certain people lord it up around here with the notion that they have some divine link to the writers of this game and can interpret this as 'truth'. I don't like gurus. Especially when they are wrong and especially when they are wrong and don't even have the balls to admit they are wrong.

What you have done , and still doing, is no different. That makes you sir , a hypocrite.

The only difference here really , is more people agree to Gwar's interpretation then yours.

The dreamed up little prohibitive loophole that has been touted here is total nonsense designed with no further use than wasting peoples time and giving the illusion certain individuals are fonts of all knowledge.

Just keep telling yourself that , doesnt make your interpretation any more right.

See as i said again , when ever Gwar is trying to solve a rule issue , there will be people like you , that HAVE to include the extra rubbish in the argument. I'll high light them for you for example.

Keep It Out.

I find it ironic , how Gwar can be banned for saying he is right , all at the same time all these petty attacks that have NOTHING to do with the rules discussion gets
thrown around freely with 0 consequences.

I am interested why you have weighed in on this thread whilst contributing nothing to the debate whatsoever, that Lunahound, is trolling. In fact the only reason you're posting seems to be in order to elicit drama. Gwar is not 'right' any more than I am, you seem under the impression his answer holds more validity. I hate to tell you this considering your own level of input to this site, but number of posts is not directly proportionate to level of mental competency, in certain cases it seems to mean the exact opposite.

So, chill out man.

Night Lords wrote:If he's not TFG, what in the world could be? haha. Arguing over a slight difference in wording is pretty hard to beat.

Would you rather I just say "Sod the rules"?

Please stop with the personal attacks (you guys know who you are). If you don't have anything constructive to the debate (which has been rinsed and repeated since page 2) then stay out of the tread.

To summorize:

Yaysayers: Squadron=Unit
Naysayers: Squadron!=Unit

Please continue, using these as your template. Put in your supporting facts and conclusion (the basis for all YMDC formats).

MeanGreenStompa wrote:I hate to tell you this considering your own level of input to this site, but number of posts is not directly proportionate to level of mental competency, in certain cases it seems to mean the exact opposite.

So, chill out man.

Hmm, thinly veiled personal attacks against me and Lunahound. Accusing Lunahound of Gender ambiguity?

QUICK BAN GWAR BECAUSE HE IS A BIG MEANIE!

Stompa, in luna's defence here she is nowhere near a troll, i think to some degree she is actually one of the top people on here as she doesent shout and scream opinions about, and she rarely gets involved in any arguments, like Gwar, she stated facts.

And not to be picky, but dont you mean chill out girl? not man




Gwar, dont give up, non-believers will turn around some day
Just need to either run them over or throw a few threats about

Harkainos wrote:Please stop with the personal attacks (you guys know who you are). If you don't have anything constructive to the debate (which has been rinsed and repeated since page 2) then stay out of the tread.

To summorize:

Yaysayers: Squadron=Unit
Naysayers: Squadron<>Unit

Please continue with these. Put in your supporting facts and conclusion (the basis for all YMDC formats).

I prefer:

Yaysayers: Squadron=Unit
Naysayers: Squadron!=Unit

But I am a giant Nerd


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JD21290 wrote:Gwar, dont give up, non-believers will turn around some day
Just need to either run them over or throw a few threats about

That didn't work last time. I am planing on a Hostile takeover of GW and then going to make myself king of all Roolz.

Gwar! wrote:I prefer:

Yaysayers: Squadron=Unit
Naysayers: Squadron!=Unit

But I am a giant Nerd

Edited

Gwar, in theory mate every choice you take from the FOC is a unit

and in all fairness here, im actually wondering how Gwar got suspended for what he said, when to be honest i have had a few arguments that pushed the limits.


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That didn't work last time. I am planing on a Hostile takeover of GW and then going to make myself king of all Roolz.

Take me with you then, ill do product design