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Well,the spectres rules are a great dissapointment.
Although the models look really nice.
A full squad would be to expencive to make worth the single shot that actually can accompilsh anything. Even with the spectres movability the wraithguard are far superior at their close range role (seeing they have similar firepower).
They may deepstrike and move more freely than infantry. So? they are supposed to stand at the back and fire longrange anti tank blasts anyway. I can see some small use in a deepstriking anti light-tank unit, but not for that cost, and not as heavy support.

The main problem I see with them though, s that the iindividual models cant do anything by them self. Why not make a new aditional Prism tank instead? Then you would not have to pay about 200 points for that single blast either. As it is now the squad get hit by a frag blast, two spectres die (not unlikely they do), and they can at best produce a 36" s8 shot (not that bad, like the bright lance, still a unit of guardians with a BL platform would be cheaper.

Edit: OK the individual specters not beeing able to do anythingwas maybe a bit hard, they are not worse than most other shoting squad in the codex I suppose. Still, I find the ambivalence between their squad wapons and joined attack to contradictory to make sence of the unit.

Those models are just awesome looking, will be fun to paint.

Kroothawk wrote:Use the Warp Hunter as Fire Prism and the Spectres as Warp Spiders or Fire Dragons and forget the rules

Why, Kroot? The final Forge World rules are as valid as the rules produced in-house by GW.

Only case for the counts-as is due to hide-bound TOs.

Dysartes wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Use the Warp Hunter as Fire Prism and the Spectres as Warp Spiders or Fire Dragons and forget the rules

Why, Kroot? The final Forge World rules are as valid as the rules produced in-house by GW.

Only case for the counts-as is due to hide-bound TOs.

He's saying to do that because he's unimpressed by the rules, not because of legality arguments.

AlexHolker wrote:

Savnock wrote:Hmmm. Dunno, copying the function of an already-existent unit wouldn't be that great, especially because their mobility is worse (sure they can JSJ but Prisms are fast skimmers with an option for star engines) and their fragility as well.

I am suggesting an expansion of the existing synergistic ability of the Prism weapon, not merely a copy of a standalone function. It's kind of like a combination of Tesla and Prism Towers in Red Alert: all the Fire Prisms in a network can combine their attack into a single massive blast, but nearby Shadow Spectres can contribute power to the network with their Prism Rifles as well.

That's a great idea. You know, even if it (probably) doesn't end up working that way in the FW rules, an Apoc datasheet with that concept would be a really cool idea. It's pretty close to the Sunstorm or whatever the prism sheet already is- but with Spectres in there too. Would you want to whip up some rules for that and post them?

chaos0xomega wrote:

Dysartes wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Use the Warp Hunter as Fire Prism and the Spectres as Warp Spiders or Fire Dragons and forget the rules

Why, Kroot? The final Forge World rules are as valid as the rules produced in-house by GW.

Only case for the counts-as is due to hide-bound TOs.

He's saying to do that because he's unimpressed by the rules, not because of legality arguments.

Yepp!

Savnock wrote:

AlexHolker wrote:

Savnock wrote:Hmmm. Dunno, copying the function of an already-existent unit wouldn't be that great, especially because their mobility is worse (sure they can JSJ but Prisms are fast skimmers with an option for star engines) and their fragility as well.

I am suggesting an expansion of the existing synergistic ability of the Prism weapon, not merely a copy of a standalone function. It's kind of like a combination of Tesla and Prism Towers in Red Alert: all the Fire Prisms in a network can combine their attack into a single massive blast, but nearby Shadow Spectres can contribute power to the network with their Prism Rifles as well.

That's a great idea. You know, even if it (probably) doesn't end up working that way in the FW rules, an Apoc datasheet with that concept would be a really cool idea. It's pretty close to the Sunstorm or whatever the prism sheet already is- but with Spectres in there too. Would you want to whip up some rules for that and post them?

But then the problem is nobody takes Shadow Spectres for what they bring to the table, but because they augment an already powerful choice(the Fire Prism).

For Apoc? That's fine. But with people wanting Spectres moved to FA, then you're going to have an issue with Spectres forcing out the other FA slots because of synergy with Fire Prisms.

Sorry, I was unclear: I meant that no matter what the regular 40K rules for the Spectres are, a datasheet that gives them the ability to function as members of the Sunstorm too would be great.

As for the other FA slots, the Eldar FA choices have been doing a fine job of edging _themselves_ out of regular tabletop armies, just by being less effective than, say, Prisms, Fire Dragons, War Walkers, etc. Except maybe Warp Spiders. I regularly see Eldar armies with maxxed HS but very rarely maxxed FA choices, and for Mechdar no FA choices at all is common (ironically).

Dysartes wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:Use the Warp Hunter as Fire Prism and the Spectres as Warp Spiders or Fire Dragons and forget the rules

Why, Kroot? The final Forge World rules are as valid as the rules produced in-house by GW.

Only case for the counts-as is due to hide-bound TOs.

Eh no offense, but with those books weighing in at at least $60 each(and some close to $100!), and there being what, 11 now, unless you're gonna buy them for me, I can't afford to get them to read over them and ensure that there isn't anything wonky and game breaking (i.e. the godawful rules for the LR Achilles, for example)

Aramus wrote:Eh no offense, but with those books weighing in at at least $60 each(and some close to $100!), and there being what, 11 now, unless you're gonna buy them for me, I can't afford to get them to read over them and ensure that there isn't anything wonky and game breaking (i.e. the godawful rules for the LR Achilles, for example)

You know what I say to that? Tough. I don't have any inclination to buy your army's Codex and am thus forced to rely on your say-so as to its contents. The least you can do is return the favor.

Agamemnon2 wrote:

Aramus wrote:Eh no offense, but with those books weighing in at at least $60 each(and some close to $100!), and there being what, 11 now, unless you're gonna buy them for me, I can't afford to get them to read over them and ensure that there isn't anything wonky and game breaking (i.e. the godawful rules for the LR Achilles, for example)

You know what I say to that? Tough. I don't have any inclination to buy your army's Codex and am thus forced to rely on your say-so as to its contents. The least you can do is return the favor.

I believe Aramus was speaking from the POV of a tournament organizer.

Of course the FW rules are extensively tested and balanced, that's why they are called "experimental rules"

And in most cases the experimental rules make it into the book with hardly a change at all. Or half the rules get lost during the copy-pasting.

Or they might just make overpriced things randomly more expensive (Malcador Defender)

Anyone know how to provide Forge World with feedback on their experimental rules?

You mail them.

Phone?

probably the best way, they get alot of emails

or snail mail, if you want a challenge

FM Ninja 048 wrote:Phone?

probably the best way, they get alot of emails

or snail mail, if you want a challenge

They actually are doing much better than they feasibly should be doing with emails, considering it's one or two guys answering them.

If you write them an email, title it "<(Wh40kFeedback: Experimental Rules for XXXXXXX-unit)>" and it should get their attention.

And don't do it from a junk email account, because their spam filters block them, same as ours do.

Those Shadow Spectres are awesome. The Warp Hunter is pretty cool as well.

However, this further pushes back any potential Tyranid releases, so that's not to good....

Squigsquasher wrote:Those Shadow Spectres are awesome. The Warp Hunter is pretty cool as well.

However, this further pushes back any potential Tyranid releases, so that's not to good....

You weren't going to see any Tyranid releases at this point anyways. The Tyranid line is pretty rounded out from Forge World.

FW's pretty much moved towards only doing releases to go with their Imperial Armour books.

mostly, those hazard suits and the tomb stalker were out of the blue, but yeah, don't expect much from FW if they don't have a book planned for it.

If you do get something, consider it a treat

FM Ninja 048 wrote:mostly, those hazard suits and the tomb stalker were out of the blue, but yeah, don't expect much from FW if they don't have a book planned for it.

If you do get something, consider it a treat

The Hazard Suits weren't really out of the blue. They came out with Imperial Armour Apocalypse 2.

The Tomb Stalker most definitely was out of the blue though.

eldar are cool but are very hard to convert because the have smooth armour and curved edges

Those look awesome. Rules don't look half bad either.

supagigashoota wrote:eldar are cool but are very hard to convert because the have smooth armour and curved edges

And therein lies the challenge!
They are however a joy to paint.

the models are great the challenge will be fielding them inanything but apoc. But, I can't lie they will make an apperance in my Eldar force.

Got mine today, they are better than in the pictures. It is going to be a nightmare to get the Spectres together, the same as any of the fiddley Eldar range. I will start working on them both (Spectres and Warp) next week when I have some time spare.

I'm waiting for my Spectres to arrive.

Hopefully, this weekend

Been fighting with mine this weekend. The sculpts are awesome, but I may have a few suggestions for everyone else who's waiting:

1. There's a helluva lot of flash from the moulds, especially on the tabards, which is especially fiddly to clean off. A craft knife is a must, as is absolute thoroughness. I've moved them under the light and found stuff I missed the first time.

2. The fabric strips fit some of the arms better than others, and will often only match one of the bases for the logical flow of the streamers, definitely worth checking which matches up. Also, there is one piece of streamer per model that is two intertwined. This is meant to fit with the right arm of each model, gluing the arm first then trying to fit the streamer after is much more difficult.

3. It's not 100% clear to me where the other streamers go, but my guess is the waist. It's not an easy fix and the pics don't make it that clear.

4. Transportation is going to be a pain. Something like a box where the models are completely immobilised and not touching anything else, tissue paper or foam or anything else is going to break the fragile streamers off the back. Bluetacking the bases to a sealable box might work.

Apologies if this is teaching anyone to suck eggs, but I would have liked someone to tell me before I started, so I hope it helps at least a few.

Reanimator wrote:Been fighting with mine this weekend. The sculpts are awesome, but I may have a few suggestions for everyone else who's waiting:

1. There's a helluva lot of flash from the moulds, especially on the tabards, which is especially fiddly to clean off. A craft knife is a must, as is absolute thoroughness. I've moved them under the light and found stuff I missed the first time.

2. The fabric strips fit some of the arms better than others, and will often only match one of the bases for the logical flow of the streamers, definitely worth checking which matches up. Also, there is one piece of streamer per model that is two intertwined. This is meant to fit with the right arm of each model, gluing the arm first then trying to fit the streamer after is much more difficult.

3. It's not 100% clear to me where the other streamers go, but my guess is the waist. It's not an easy fix and the pics don't make it that clear.

4. Transportation is going to be a pain. Something like a box where the models are completely immobilised and not touching anything else, tissue paper or foam or anything else is going to break the fragile streamers off the back. Bluetacking the bases to a sealable box might work.

Apologies if this is teaching anyone to suck eggs, but I would have liked someone to tell me before I started, so I hope it helps at least a few.

If I may offer my own solution for transport, I used this method for Confrontation figures which might as well have been made of glass held together by faerie dreams.

I put a very thin piece of metal on the bottom of the base, custom cut for the 25mm bases. Litko Aero sells some great ones. then I but a magnetic strip attached to the bottom of a box and put them in there. That way, they are always standing as they will for gaming. You can also put the magnet on the base and use a metal case instead. Whatever is easier for you. Saves on packing peanuts.