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Orders and their rules, units list with initial points, weapons and kit list.
Some of the features of Word10 might not be viewable in open office, but they are simply my army structure rules and can be found in an earlier post.

Hi DJB.
Having read through what you have posted so far, here are some comments and questions.

Introduction.
1) if the game is to be 20 to 500 minatures a side , perhaps we should focus on UNIT interaction , to reduce the amount of dice rolling to a managable amount?

Game objectives,
2)I belive we could get more interesting games with senarios , randomly generated by mission cards , or written specificaly for the game based on heroic encounters in history!
There is NOTHING wrong with the ones you sudgested, its just I want MORE!

3)Deployment could be randomly generated from a fixed set.(Similar to mission deployments .)Or specific to particular senario as indicated in 2).

4)Charactersitics.

Movment -OK.
Dicipline -OK
Armour -OK.

Could we add
Hit points(wounds -structure points .)

Command.(How good the leader is.)

Stealth.(How good the unit is at not being seen.)

If you want to use seperate skills and weapon effects.
Shooting -OK
Close Quarters -OK.

Attacks in close combat could simply be put on the weapon profile like number of shots for shooting?

5)The method you propose for close combat resolution is a bit too time consuming.Why not use multiple dice (set by situation) modified by the CQ value.

EG
Normal 2D6.
Additional freindly unit +1D6
Charged this turn +1D6.
On higher ground -defended obticle+1D6.
Defending fortification +2D6.
Supressed - 1 D6
Neutralised -1 D6 loose CQ value.
Routing NO dice rolled.

Compare the scores , the difference is the amount of hits, points the unit with the lowest score suffers.

Game turn
6)If you want to use alteranating actions ,GREAT.
But if you want to issue orders to, why not combaine the to to allow the units to select the actions they want to perform , set by the level of command the unit has?

(Eg the unit has a higher level of command it can perform actions more effectily.)

And if we have the units selecting the actions from a pool of options,then we dont need to have a seperate set of reactions do we?As we can include them in the action pool avaialble perhaps.

7)Moral descriptions -OK

8) Types of unit. Vehicles and MCs, descrete, and other types of unit indesrete.
The inability to move and fire should be on the WEAPONS profile NOT dictating the tye of unit...

Other wise you get units defined bt equipment (14 types !)Not game mechanics (2 types.)

Oh a final note , the idea of spliting fire betweeen nearby units is good ,BUT you need a simple and intuitive way to control this.
(May I sugest using a targeting zone mechanics ,as used in SST,BFE, and others ?)

The unit and weapon lists are a great starting point .
But I think it would be best to finalise game emchanics and resolution methods first.

TTFN

OK, sorry this is late but my internet went down for more than a week so posting has had to wait until now

2&3) I want to put in more varied methods of deploying, I enjoy playing DoW from 40k so will probably include that and have a basic pitched battle too. scenarios will have to come later in but they are also going to be there, and a scenario table.

5) Thanks for the alternative combat method, I knew my current one was very clunky and wanted a better one. your idea will be included in the second edit. this also means we are focusing on unit interactions.

4) Hit points and stealth can be put in with a little update to the current rules. am not sure about command tho, I was going to have tiers and ranks of officers of command teams, this is going to be coming in the next edit.

6) The orders are designed to stand alone like the IG orders and the charge reactions are intended to respond to being charged, similar to WHFB charge reactions where different units will take different reactions depending on their role.
These could be made mandatory by having a charge response table? a D6 is rolled, 1, the unit is immediately suppressed/shaken/flees, 2/3 they hold, 4/5 they stand and shoot, 6 they counter charge.

8) the inability to move weapons is only forced onto infantry units manning ordnance because these are guns that require towing to a battlefield rather than being carried by a two man team.
granted I have been rather heavy handed, blanketing several weapon into move or fire groups, but again this is subject to change.

For split fire, units must declare who is shooting who, and they must have TLOS to their target
picture of this coming up

Hi DJB.
Maybe I should explain about the command level -orders available idea in more detail?

Here is just an example ...to see if you like the idea or not.

If we assume ALL leaders have a area of effect.

Section leader own unit.

NCO own unit and freindly units within 6"

Junior officers own unit and freindly units within 12"

Senior officers own unit and friendly units within 24"

Actions are split into Leader-NCO-Jofficer-Sofficer.

S'Leader- Move ,Attack,Ready.(Normal actions to give standard orders as detailed in my rule set.)

NCO, Move, Attack, Ready, *Sustained Attack.

J,Officer. Move Attack Ready,*Sustained Attack.*Defencive positions.

S Officer.Move Attack Ready,*Sustaned Attack,*Defencive positions, *Withdraw/Covered advance.

All units get 2 actions per turn.(Move Attack-Ready.)

BUT higher level command inspire greater feats of bravery-add more tactical insight.

NCOs can give ONE extra *special actions to a unit in thier command area.

J-Officers can give up to 2 units ONE *special action each , in thier command area.

S-Officers can give up to 3 units ONE *special action each , in thier command area.

Units may ONLY ever take a maximum of 3 actions in a game turn .

EG Move Attack-Sustaned attack.


As reguard to splitting fire .

If you designate an aiming point within LOS and range ,And say all models within 6" radius of this point can be targeted.
(If in weapons range and LOS)

Its a simple way of allowing units to 'split fire' without using more complicated explanations and restrictions.

Just some alternative ideas for you to concider.

Sounds good. I might give it a go.

Lanrak, that is similar to my current plan, but I will only have commissioned officers will be giving orders.

Hi DJB.
I just wanted to show an example of how the basic idea could be implemented.

If its only 'characters' (officers) that can give out orders, wont that make them overly importantant?
Maybe some level of autonomy within units might be a good idea?

Or are you going with sequenced actions with seperate order overlay?
Beause if you are, is that not making things more complicated than necissary?

Would you be able to post up your latest draught, so we can see how its going?
(And i can get a better picture of what is happening... )

I have a 'Marshal' unit that acts like an independent officer, basically a commissar
Tiers are represent skill and rank of officers.
The tiers and points on the Units are in red

Hi DJB.
Rather than have seperate units with 'commanders ' in.
How do you feel about simply adding a Commander (model )to a unit ?
Rather than buying a special unit with the 'commander' in?
As this simply reduces the number of units we have to list...
EG 4 levels of command and 5 unit types means 20 extra unit descriptions .
Where as 4 levels of command , can be described independantly , and put into the units the player wants them in.

Also , are you indending to use a , move then shoot then assault game turn , with the orders as a seperate system that acts as an overlay ?

Wouldnt it be bettter to use the actions to make up 'orders' , as highlighted above , so the whole thing is included in the core game mechanic.
Rather than haveing the orders as a seperate game mechanics to the game turn?

I like your idea alot, I am just trying to find the most straight foreward way to present them.

Lanrak,
The Marshals would be bought as a support choice and act as adding a commander to a unit, and only infantry units would be able to purchase them. I need to add that to the unit description. Also the marshals would act out of the regular chain of command, as a political officer to give inspiration, improve discipline and act like an angry drill sergeant.

The rank/tier is simply an upgrade to a command unit rather than a separate unit in its own right.
And I only have 2 unit types, infantry and vehicle/MC

I intend the army to act as if it is already under 'simple orders'; move to that hill, fire over there, etc
Then the overlaying orders come into play, as if a high-ranking officer is directly ordering a unit to do something or demanding more reserves etc.

The overlaying orders would be given at the start of the game turn at the same time as the other player, representing the orders being given secretly.
An alternative to this would be to have the player who is going first, give his orders first, therefore giving the player going second, a slight advantage.

Thoughts?

Hi DJB.

4 levels of command sounds about right IMO.(I am a bit worried you are focusing too heavily on 'IG' type armies, and the system would not 'fit' as well with xenos type armies.)

If we let the player allocate orders-(actions sets) in secret at the start of the game turn.Eg putting order counter(s) next to units.

We could use dummy special orders counters , so the opponent doesnt know which ints have the actual special actions-orders.
OR
We could JUST use order counters with NORMAL actions.
And then let the player use up thier very limited 'special actions' that the leaders-commanders give them.
As and when required?

I think keeping the units intended actiosn sevret unitll the are activated makes for a more tatical game.

Granted these orders dont do well fire alien races, but they can be modified to suit every army, and currently we only have one!

If we let the player allocate orders-(actions sets) in secret at the start of the game turn.Eg putting order counter(s) next to units.

that is what i want to do

Do you think we have the basic rules sussed out, or do they need some final fine-tuning?
If they are ok atm, can you write up a xenos army list? just to give us two armies to be looking at and compare, feel free to do what you want with the xenos.

Hi DJB.
I think It might be a good idea to just do a re-cap of what we have so far.
As we have discussed things in isolation.They may need a bit of fine turning so they hang together as a set of rules.
(And my memory is not very good...)

Do you want to start by going over the game mechanics/resolution methods.

(I was hopeing to convert established sci fi armies into the new game.)

I just want the rules to be written to cover all army types , and use more generic language.

Eg In the rules refer to Unit leaders level 1,2,3,4.

Inthe game -army list these could be given race specific name like;-
Sgt, Vet Sgt, Leutenant and Captain.

Bruiser ,Thugg, Boss, Waross .

Master, Knight, Barron, Lord.

Or other better names written by people more artisticly gifted than me.

I prefer the rules straight forward and generic instructions on how to play.

All the theme and artstry in the army lists and background.

No worries, fluff will be left where fluff should be, in the back of the book, and written by someone who is not called Matthew Ward.
I will have a full revised draft coming up, i just need to put everything into one PDF/Word doc

Please add comments in blue and additions/edits in red

Hi DJB.
I was thinking about a recap in game mechanic 'short hand' so we can cover everthing in the open.And other can chime in with ideas as we built up the game from the basic frame work...

Game turn mechanic .
Alternating actions , driven by order allocation.

Eg(Players alternate )
Place orders face down.
Reveal orders and take first action.
Remove order counter and take second action.
**Take extra action of special order as required.**

Mobility.
Listed as Type /Speed.
How the unit moves / the maximum distance the unit can move taking a move action.

(Terrain type modifies speed of units dependant on unit type, as losted in a terrain chart?)

Defencive ability.

Armour value.(How hard the unit is to damage.Deduct this value from the weapon damage value to arrive at the units armour save.)

Hit Points.(How much damage the unit can take.)

Stealth.(How hard the unit is to hit at range.)

Morale.(How dedicated the unit is to staying in the fight!)

Command.(How good the leader is!Level 1 2 3 or4.)


Offencive capability.
Do want to list the net effect of units + weapons ?

Eg list the weapon data on a unit card under the unit stats?

Type /Name/Eff range/Eff/Special .

Is this the basics covered?Do you want to change any names,(I am rubbish at naming stuff! )

Or would you like to change some aspects?

Ok, here goes nothing

General
Characteristics: Movement, shooting, CQ skiill, strength, Armour value, Discipline, Attacks
Attacks can be dropped as we don't seem to have a good system where they are of use.
You also want to add stealth, any thoughts on how to do that, as i dont really know.

Two types of unit, infantry and non-infantry for tanks, MCs etc.
Sub-category, infantry w/ ordnance, the only difference is that the cannot move their ordnance around as it would require a truck to move it.

Weapons have an effective range(0-2/2-X, strength, shots(no. of shots fired) and effect(like blast, suppressing etc)

Game Turn
players alternate actions,

Players roll to see who goes first this game turn,

Players declare orders they want to give depending on command level of their command squads and marshals

Players roll for reserves and place them on the board edge

Players Move,
listed as M for movement value, terrain modifies movement distance depending on terrain

Players Shoot
simply roll above their shoot value
Then the targeted unit takes saves, Deduct the armour value from the weapon damage value to arrive at the units armour save.

Players Assault
Declare all assaulting units and targets targets then react. Models move. Combat is resolved
Morale is tested for as appropriate

Hi DJB.
To use Stealth we simply change the Shoot value , from how good the unit is at shooting , to how good it is at avoiding being shot at!

Eg rather than roll over the attackers shoot value, we roll over the TARGETS stealth value.(Cover adds to the target stealth value.)

Movement,Type and distance.

Stealth.(How hard the unit is to hit with ranged weapons.)

Assault value ,(How good the unit is in close combat. )

Armour value .(How hard the unit is to damage.)

Disciplin ,How likely the unit is to stay in the fight.

Command (How good the leader is.)

(Strenght - dependant on weapons used , more than sodiers own strenght.should we use weapon damage, on weapon profiles , to cover this perhaps?)
Do you think the units wounds/structure points are required to keep track of damage on non infantry targets?

Treat ordnance as a crewed vehilce with a movement value of 0.

Ill comment more on the game turn mechanic in a bit...

Hey guys, I've updated both the core ruleset for Crimson Galaxy and also the army lists.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/57594130/Pirates-of-the-Crimson-Galaxy
http://www.scribd.com/doc/58334160/Crimson-Galaxy-Army-Lists

The "Core" rules include a basic human army list along with the Pirates and the Ashurzurian Dominion.

The Army Lists supplement includes all of the Dominions mentioned in the background of the core ruleset (excepting the Frenthons, I have a special use for them later!).
The supplement also includes rules for using stuff like Dinosaurs, swarms, giant spiders, and all that fun stuff. Also, it includes rules for Primitive Humans.
My current favorite tactic: Espannian Conquistadores supported by troops with muskets and crossbows.

Also, I have a fluff bible for the game here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/58762057/Pirates-of-the-Crimson-Galaxy-Fluff-Bible

It's a little outdated and the newer version is on another computer I don't currently have access to, but that should be some good reading. : )

Are you sure about having a roll to 'spot and shoot'
since most of the units are going to have a similar Stealth value, this really undermines the more elite units as they are not the pro shooters they should be.