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Amaya wrote:I've heard a lot of 200+lbers younger than 10, but 5'5" to 5'8" as well? That kid is a monster for his age.



And while a public hanging is overly dramatic, this soldier should be executed. Anything less is lenient.

Put him through *debriefing* (basically interrogation), get the shrinks to look at him and then make a decision based on that. Also the fact this guy actually did go through iraq, AND had a documented BREAKDOWN, which SENIOR OFFICERS DISCOUNTED prior to the incident.

First of all, military inquiry. look at why the incident happened. Give the families affected a pension, or adequate compensation. boot the soldier out of the military and keep an eye on him (preferably a no-gun order, and check-in to police every 3 days).

Execution for someone giving into stress or PTSD would be pretty much like shooting vietnam veterans, and I can pretty much guarentee that the soldier, whilst not getting off scot-free would most definately not be executed. It's inappropriate, and quite simply as heck barbaric almost as the taliban.

Yes, the soldier should be punished, but a lethal punishment would actually be counter-productive, both lowering morale even more for the soldiers in the area, and making them even more stressed about this situation occurring which may lead to more incidents of *pychological rampages*.

bibblles wrote: As an american I see no reason to value the lives of foreign nationals (and in all likely-hood hostile combatants) over the lives and lively-hoods of my countrymen.

And that is why everyone loves the good old USA. I can practically smell the xenophobia in your post...

Apparently they flew the soldier out in the middle of the night to a detention center in Kuwait and people of Afghanistan are none to pleased. It was probably the right thing to do, but it still won't sit well. At this point I'm more concerned with the guys still in country becuase the likelihood of some kind of attack has increased exponentially. The people have a right to be outraged and I worry that ones that wouldn't normally have gone after our guys might end up casualties as well becuase they get swept up in hysteria and grief.

All in all it is just a very very bad situation that needs to be handled very delicately. It still may not help even than, but we have to do what we can to maintain both vigilance and peace at the same time.

Ahtman wrote:Apparently they flew the soldier out in the middle of the night to a detention center in Kuwait and people of Afghanistan are none to pleased. It was probably the right thing to do, but it still won't sit well. At this point I'm more concerned with the guys still in country becuase the likelihood of some kind of attack has increased exponentially. The people have a right to be outraged and I worry that ones that wouldn't normally have gone after our guys might end up casualties as well becuase they get swept up in hysteria and grief.

All in all it is just a very very bad situation that needs to be handled very delicately. It still may not help even than, but we have to do what we can to maintain both vigilance and peace at the same time.

Afghanistan is now saying troops should stay at major bases. I have a better idea. Bugout!

I agree.

It's pretty clear that Afghanistan is a lost cause. Recent events like this and the Koran burning have made it all a lot worse.

The thing is, that afganistan is still buggered if the USA leave. The security forces are a laugh, and pretty much as soon as the US forces go, corruption and apathy will pretty much reign supreme and the Taliban occupation will reoccur pretty much as a given.

Kilkrazy wrote:I agree.

It's pretty clear that Afghanistan is a lost cause. Recent events like this and the Koran burning have made it all a lot worse.

Not lost. We wacked Bin Laden and wrecked Al Qaeda. Thats what we went threre to do. Nation building wasn't in the cards and thats where we went wrong. Time to go.

Should have gone eight years ago IMO.

Kilkrazy wrote:Should have gone eight years ago IMO.

Should never had set foot in it in the first place, at least in the way that you did.

You should have gone in, whack the Taliban like you did at first, with SF soldiers and air power and leave as soon at it was clear the Al Quaeda (and Bin Laden) had left the country.

PhantomViper wrote:

bibblles wrote: As an american I see no reason to value the lives of foreign nationals (and in all likely-hood hostile combatants) over the lives and lively-hoods of my countrymen.

And that is why everyone loves the good old USA. I can practically smell the xenophobia in your post...

Your using one post and throwing that as an insult at the whole of the "good old USA"... isnt that pretty much pot calling kettle black on a laughably obvious scale?

Also, I dont think its xenophobic. Its normal human behaviour surely? If someone has to die, better someone you dont know, someone from another nation/tribe/religion/street/family than somebody you actually do have a common link to.

So, wasnt your post actually the xenophobic one?!


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PhantomViper wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Should have gone eight years ago IMO.

Should never had set foot in it in the first place, at least in the way that you did.

You should have gone in, whack the Taliban like you did at first, with SF soldiers and air power and leave as soon at it was clear the Al Quaeda (and Bin Laden) had left the country.

Kilkrazy went to Afghanistan?

PhantomViper wrote:

bibblles wrote: As an american I see no reason to value the lives of foreign nationals (and in all likely-hood hostile combatants) over the lives and lively-hoods of my countrymen.

And that is why everyone loves the good old USA. I can practically smell the xenophobia in your post...

When it comes down to me and my mates and everyone else. Everyone else dies first. That's not to say that every non allied person's life is forfeit, but where the rubber meets the road the decision is simple. My battle buddy comes first, then my squad, then my platoon, then my company, then the rest of the maneuver unit, then everyone else, then the LT. If the fecal matter hits the rotary impeller shoot in ascending order. I doubt that anyone who has not been shot at really understands how simple decision making becomes, it's not racial, it's not xenophobic, it's primal. If you get stuck there I'd imagine it would be very easy to devalue human life.

American Solider goes 'rouge' and murders innocents = Tragedy.

Taliban Solider kills US Soliders = Terrorist.

Enough said really. When the US is involved, its reported as an 'accident' (A-10 Killing UK Troops) or a Tragic event (like urinating on Qu'oran or this). But when someone else does it to the US its reported as a Terrorist attack.

Doctadeth wrote:The thing is, that afganistan is still buggered if the USA leave. The security forces are a laugh, and pretty much as soon as the US forces go, corruption and apathy will pretty much reign supreme and the Taliban occupation will reoccur pretty much as a given.

The problem with Afghanistan is the people themselves. Even Churchill himself was utterly repulsed when he served there near the turn of the 20th century, describing their society as inanely backwards and insular and devaluing the lives of women to the point that animals like cattle were treated with more respect.
Their society is happy to remain ignorant of change and stuck in a barbaric culture of oppression & violence, so I say round-up every young girl who wants out, pull out all our troops and then glass the whole place!

I have no respect or sympathy for a society that treats women like they're less than worthless baby-boy-pooping machines. But then being a girl myself, my opinions might be a wee bit biased!

You realize that you just described nearly every non Western nation and pretty much the entire world prior to the 19th century?

Experiment 626 wrote: Even Churchill himself was utterly repulsed when he served there near the turn of the 20th century, describing their society as inanely backwards and insular and devaluing the lives of women to the point that animals like cattle were treated with more respect.

Churchill wasn't exactly noted for his starry eyed acceptance of foreign culture.

[edited]


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PhantomViper wrote:

bibblles wrote: As an american I see no reason to value the lives of foreign nationals (and in all likely-hood hostile combatants) over the lives and lively-hoods of my countrymen.

And that is why everyone loves the good old USA. I can practically smell the xenophobia in your post...

More like Jingoism...

Amaya wrote:You realize that you just described nearly every non Western nation and pretty much the entire world prior to the 19th century?

Ya know what non western countries do? and pretty much the entire world prior to the 19th century?

They would publicly EXECUTE people without TRIALS or psych evaluations without understanding.

Ya know, like what you've been saying we should do to this soldier.

AustonT wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

bibblles wrote: As an american I see no reason to value the lives of foreign nationals (and in all likely-hood hostile combatants) over the lives and lively-hoods of my countrymen.

And that is why everyone loves the good old USA. I can practically smell the xenophobia in your post...

When it comes down to me and my mates and everyone else. Everyone else dies first. That's not to say that every non allied person's life is forfeit, but where the rubber meets the road the decision is simple. My battle buddy comes first, then my squad, then my platoon, then my company, then the rest of the maneuver unit, then everyone else, then the LT. If the fecal matter hits the rotary impeller shoot in ascending order. I doubt that anyone who has not been shot at really understands how simple decision making becomes, it's not racial, it's not xenophobic, it's primal. If you get stuck there I'd imagine it would be very easy to devalue human life.

Exactly, that is just normal human nature at work.

The problem is that the USA spouts out this "freedom and democracy for all, every person is created equal" nonsense and when these types of situations happen and they naturally treat their own people like 1st class humans and the rest of the world like less valued human beings, it kind of pisses of the rest of the world and ends up creating more ill will towards you (you as a nation, not you as a person).

I'm not saying that the USA are better or worst than every other nation in the world, they are worst than some but better than the vast majority, but they really should get of their moral high horse if they are to keep doing stuff like this.


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bibblles wrote:

Amaya wrote:You realize that you just described nearly every non Western nation and pretty much the entire world prior to the 19th century?

Ya know what non western countries do? and pretty much the entire world prior to the 19th century?

They would publicly EXECUTE people without TRIALS or psych evaluations without understanding.

Ya know, like what you've been saying we should do to this soldier.

If he had done this in the USA to american citizens, what would happen to him?

I'm guessing that since this was a crime done by someone wearing a uniform it would be a Federal crime? You don't have the death penalty at the federal level any more do you?

So at the very least he would be sentenced to several life sentences without parole. I highly doubt that this will be the case.

So, news article may launch an investigation into the Military Hospital the Sgt went through.

The soldier was one of 4,000 soldiers in the 3rd (Stryker) Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division stationed at Lewis-McChord in Washington state. The base's medical center is being investigated for allegedly down-grading post traumatic stress diagnoses to other mental illnesses that do not prevent deployment or qualify soldiers for disability payments.

Shaving money and making false reports/depositions and this case may just blow the doors off of this related issue. Government malfeasance I smell.

From: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/military-sources-name-army-sergeant-suspected-afghanistan-massacre-224453357.html

Atually... that's nothing new under the sun for veteran's care.

Melissia wrote:Atually... that's nothing new under the sun for veteran's care.

Exactly, I went 26yrs w/o knowing what my med records were like, and did more damage to myself than what the records showed, but the records indicated to me that I could have avoided it all if I had known in advance. Now I am waiting to hear a good result for my own compensation case. It may be a pretty hefty back-log lump sum and then monthlies, but it just goes to show how they attempt to skimp on the soldiers, but lo and behold how much is lavished upon the politicians that send soldiers abroad!

As an aside:

"Prior to his deployment to Afghanistan, the soldier had lost part of a foot in Iraq and suffered a traumatic brain injury, according to his lawyer, John Henry Browne. "

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/16/world/asia/afghanistan-shooting-soldier/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

Definitely seems to be a failure of the military to diagnose the soldier... this kind of thing can drastically change someone's personality.

Amaya wrote:The soldier should be summarily executed. Preferably by hanging in view of American soldiers and/or Afghanis. Anything short of execution will be seen as tolerance for his actions by Arab nations.

People calling for this soldier to be executed just to satisfy the Afghan public disgust me. What if this guy had a serious mental condition that led him to do this? And let's face it, it seems fairly likely that he wasn't in his right mind.

To execute this soldier would be no better than the execution of deserters in the Great War because they were branded cowards due to the the fact that PTSD was not understood. No, actually it would be worse than that, because even in the modern light of knowing people can have PTSD and other mental breakdowns there are those still happy to execute him.

The situation is a fething great mess. But executing a sick man to placate the mob does not sit well with me.

Howard A Treesong wrote:What if this guy had a serious mental condition that led him to do this?

He suffered a brain injury.

Melissia wrote:

Howard A Treesong wrote:What if this guy had a serious mental condition that led him to do this?

He suffered a brain injury.

Yes, but you don't know if that is related to what he did until there's a full assessment. Obviously it's likely but you have to wait for the facts to come out.

There should have been an assessment after the injury instead of after this incident.

Are you trying to argue with me? I agree of course.

Nope, not arguing ,just making statements.

Okay, it just came across as being a bit combative, my mistake.

That and the hospital that evaluated him seemed to downplay his condition, and is now under investigation for further soldiers cases being downplayed so as not to pay out VA benefits.

Meanwhile we have senators with paychecks and pensions most folks would droll over with great medial benefits, and it is all on the taxpayers backs that this form of reversed socialism is foisted upon.

Soldiers get scraps and ditched

Senators get Fat checks, fat pensions, awesome medical for virtually free, and retire in luxury??? WTF is wrong with this picture?

And I agree, he never should have been redeployed and does need an evaluation as to the state of his mental health.

I prefer to not feed the mob over there with a killing. The impression I get is that they are a very kill krazy society after all of the other things in their history.