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 filbert wrote:

 Red_Zeke wrote:
I see a lot of folks on both sides of the debate in this thread extrapolating their personal experiences, or the conditions of their local playing area and assuming that applies worldwide. There's also some "I know a guy who knows a guys who says sales are down". Is there someone who's got an actual link to sales or some kind of number that might prove/disprove this assertion that Warhammer Fantasy is "dying"?

You are unlikely to ever see any actual sales figures short of rumours, leaks and conjecture. GW are notoriously guarded about things like that. What is true and has been leaked/reported in the past, is that Warmachine/Hordes is more popular (in the USA anyway) than WHFB - with 40K taking top spot. Of course, that says nothing about sales figures and 'more popular' is a very nebulous term.

You might also want to browse through the Chapterhouse vs GW lawsuit as they will give you some basic % numbers on which products were sold in the US. believe 2010 was the most recent info on what was legally posted for the courts.

For me personally, the main reason why I prefer 40k to Fantasy is due to the sheer amount of background compared to fantasy. I love reading the horus heresy novels, omnibuses ect...

Although I have not bothered to play a game of 6th ed 40k or actually read the rule book I bought... 6th ed seems like a way of selling more bastions/flyers.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Not really. We've seen percentage system before in 5th?(sorry memory is foggy). Just like then and now, its not really great becasue all it does is sink points into other areas. Like characters. I've already played hero hammer. Not really liking it again.

This is something that's always confused me, how is 8th less like 7th when it comes to characters? I only played DE, and VC a lot before, and I remember VC taking very minimum core troops (just the required amount), and than putting everything into their characters, DE took upwards of 1-4 casters/masters/lord, with hydra's and repeaters filling out the rest of the points.

How is 7th less herohammer than 8th?

5TH edition. Hero hammer. You could take 50% of the army in characters. More so then 7th. Just like 8th, it mirrors 5th,

This just in:

At our local GW, 2 WHFB events were planned for october. 1 has been fully cancelled while the other one, a Storm of Yahtzee, has been reduced to 1000.

We're looking at 6 40k events though, ranging from 1000 to 1850 points.

I like it

Storm of Yahtzee

Warhammer should be renamed to this

carmachu wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Not really. We've seen percentage system before in 5th?(sorry memory is foggy). Just like then and now, its not really great becasue all it does is sink points into other areas. Like characters. I've already played hero hammer. Not really liking it again.

This is something that's always confused me, how is 8th less like 7th when it comes to characters? I only played DE, and VC a lot before, and I remember VC taking very minimum core troops (just the required amount), and than putting everything into their characters, DE took upwards of 1-4 casters/masters/lord, with hydra's and repeaters filling out the rest of the points.

How is 7th less herohammer than 8th?

5TH edition. Hero hammer. You could take 50% of the army in characters. More so then 7th. Just like 8th, it mirrors 5th,

Yes you can take 25% in Lords and 25% in heroes, however in 7th you had no points limit and instead just a character limit per 1000 points. (At 2000 you had 1, with 4 characters)

So that if you really wanted, you could spend far more then the typical 25% on them if you had the options to. You can have more heroes in 8th, I understand this, but their quality will be far worse then if you fully kitted them out, and I always though that HeroHammer meant having powerful characters that would beat out entire units, rather than a horde of heroes (Which only OnG can pull off very well)

carmachu wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Not really. We've seen percentage system before in 5th?(sorry memory is foggy). Just like then and now, its not really great becasue all it does is sink points into other areas. Like characters. I've already played hero hammer. Not really liking it again.

This is something that's always confused me, how is 8th less like 7th when it comes to characters? I only played DE, and VC a lot before, and I remember VC taking very minimum core troops (just the required amount), and than putting everything into their characters, DE took upwards of 1-4 casters/masters/lord, with hydra's and repeaters filling out the rest of the points.

How is 7th less herohammer than 8th?

5TH edition. Hero hammer. You could take 50% of the army in characters. More so then 7th. Just like 8th, it mirrors 5th,

8th is nothing like 5th in terms of hero hammer. Anyone (with maybe 2 exceptions) who is fielding 50% of there points in heroes is going to loose.


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Reds8n

Come on, man. That's not constructive. I'm in favor of 8th, but it's still relevant to hear what other locale's are doing with respect to the game.

RZ

Sorry bro Ive just about had my fill of folk who dont play anymore taking every chance they can to kick good old fantasy in the face.

I have a bunch of people in the WHFB and LOTR area than 40k. So mainly I play WHFB 'cause my friends aren't interested in 40k.
In my FLGS each time I bring either my dwarfs or DA I get a game no problem. There's another one in the city that if your lucky, you could get a WHFB 500p match, but everyone plays 40k there and they sell mainly 40k and its really the same in Fremantle (I hail from WA). It just really depends which people prefer more, sci-fi or fantasy.
I love both as much, but have only played 3 games of 6th, so I'm not really sure of 40k yet in gameplay, but me and my friend have an epic game of 500p WHFB with Deathmaster Snitch and the High King or Thorek which makes for an interesting battle.

 Red_Zeke wrote:
I see a lot of folks on both sides of the debate in this thread extrapolating their personal experiences, or the conditions of their local playing area and assuming that applies worldwide. There's also some "I know a guy who knows a guys who says sales are down". Is there someone who's got an actual link to sales or some kind of number that might prove/disprove this assertion that Warhammer Fantasy is "dying"?

I think this is a great point. And really, I have no way of knowing what fantasy is doing on a bigger scale.

But of the folks on Dakka who I've gotten together with a few times to play fantasy (Jin, Wehrkind, and Boss_Salvage) only Salvage is still kicking the fantasy tires with any regularity... and even him, not so much from what I can tell. All bitten by the warmahordes bug!

8th definitely gave me the nudge out the door... and I think I gave it a pretty fair shot (even played in a fantasy tourney at Adepticon this past year... which the same fantasy player who is local to me won like he has many times in the past!). I just didn't enjoy it...

However, if Avatars of War ever get their dwarf line done up, and I expect them to, then I WILL be getting back into fantasy with a dwarf army... thanks mostly to RZ's making them look interesting and fun to play (whether this is true or not, I am not sure, but I have been convinced). I anticipate that being something like late next year... as the main motivation for me would be the models, of which I love Avatars of War's the most.

So, all that to say... it definitely dropped off with guys I know from Dakka, and at my local store (on wargaming night it used to be 25-40% or so fantasy... now 40k/warmahordes make up a larger percentage and fantasy is down to something like 10%, or absent at times). But lots of people still have fantasy armies and I could see it picking back up again... particularly with a new ruleset, but that's got to be a ways off!

I am modeller first and gamer second, and for me collecting 40K armies is just more rewarding. I like the fantasy models, especially the Empire, but to actually play you need insane amounts of them. This is not so much about the cost for me, but the time it takes to convert and paint them. And then the buggers need to be ranked, and this is just a pain. Someone's spear always ends up stabbing a mate in the eye, and ranking greatly limits how you can pose the models.

In 40k you can freely pose every model how you like, and they're all visible. And as you need less models, you can pay more attention to converting and painting each one of them.

 Crimson wrote:
I am modeller first and gamer second, and for me collecting 40K armies is just more rewarding. I like the fantasy models, especially the Empire, but to actually play you need insane amounts of them. This is not so much about the cost for me, but the time it takes to convert and paint them. And then the buggers need to be ranked, and this is just a pain. Someone's spear always ends up stabbing a mate in the eye, and ranking greatly limits how you can pose the models.

In 40k you can freely pose every model how you like, and they're all visible. And as you need less models, you can pay more attention to converting and painting each one of them.

I'm not much of a converter atm, but large units of infantry in WHFB gives you the opportunity to put some awesome dioramas in your units, which, in my opinion, look just as cool as nicely posed models.

Besides, with careful planning you can get your models to rank up just fine, and even fit a cool pose or several in there.

 The Shadow wrote:


Besides, with careful planning you can get your models to rank up just fine, and even fit a cool pose or several in there.

I'm afraid I'm not fan of the 'careful planning' phase... Yes, when I do fantasy units I number every model so they can fit properly in their place in the unit, but that is rather annoying thing to do.

You're right about the mini-dioramas though.

Yeah, I understand about that, I agree it is far more fun to just go in all glue/paints blazing, it's just that you may regret it later.

Another thing I like about the aesthetics of a Fantasy Army is the way the unit looks when it's ranked up, painted nicely with cool, draping banner, flocked, and put on an also-flocked movement tray. It just looks nice