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Eh. It does make a kind of sense if you realize that they might just want people to be able to identify things based on pictures or to utilize their website more.

Hopefully they'll keep the multiple languages along one of the box edges for those who need to look at them. I know people buying gifts might not know the army well enough to identify them by sight. I know at one local store there are people coming in looking for a gift and aren't sure about the difference between Warhammer and Warhammer 40k and Warmachine. Now add in products that are labeled in another language.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:


"Stern" as in your rear, not "stern" as in strict. Contrast to the Vanguard Veterans, who are in the vanguard...

I don't believe Sternguard is a traditional term in English. An army is led by the Van (guard), but the men at the back are the rearguard, not the sternguard, which as you said is a nautical term.
I realise marines are sort of nautical in theme, but for consistency the Vanguard should be called the Bowguard or the Prowguard as bow and prow refer to the forward parts of a ship.

Okay I just looked this up, but vanguard comes from medieval French Avant-garde which raises the question why the Vanguard aren't called Avante-garde in French since the word came from them originally. Instead they're called Veteran assault marines. Of course it being 40k and everything stays the same or goes backward, maybe avante-garde would send the wrong message.


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dlight wrote:
Can't we find something else to post about than this garbage? So what, maybe GW didn't like the look of the extra wordings
on their products. Get over it.

This tread is a waste of time.

It's fulfilling its purpose well, it's going round and round.

Words are important though, ask this guy:

 Malika2 wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
That's all nice and well, but not all countries (inhabitants) are skilled in the english language, so translation need to be done, if all the rulebooks would only be in english they could kiss a large market goodby.

I noticed that...especially since you clearly haven't read the rest of my post(s)...

Sorry, English is difficult to comprehend.

In other words; Miljaar ik had die laatste zinnen niet gezien. potjandorie!

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
That's all nice and well, but not all countries (inhabitants) are skilled in the english language, so translation need to be done, if all the rulebooks would only be in english they could kiss a large market goodby.

I noticed that...especially since you clearly haven't read the rest of my post(s)...

Sorry, English is difficult to comprehend.

In other words; Miljaar ik had die laatste zinnen niet gezien. potjandorie!

Talking like Urbanus does not excuse you from quoting out context.

Death from the Skies is only available in English.
All digital publications are only available in English.
All supplements so far are only available in English.
The new mini rulebook (!) is only available in English.

Good observation. Also the add-on codizes are all in English...

And it will get fewer. Since the english versions still sold quite well in Germany they will do less translations. The original German translation team has been disbanded for quite some time and now what is left moves back to Nottingham these days. If the French, Italian or Spanish markets ar an indicator of what to come than German versions will be quite rare in the not so far future.

Alpharius wrote:English harder than Mandarin Chinese?
I might have to close this thread now...!

The Chinese language itself is quite simple once you have an ear for different pronounciations (less grammar, more context). It is the script that is the killer for foreigners.

frozenwastes wrote:Could it be an issue of unexpected demand? Perhaps for the US and UK market, they're going with more minimalistic boxes and they simply ran out of the boxes with all the different languages on them and are shipping things out with the English & French only boxes?

They ran out of languages ?
No, same boxes and blisters for everyone.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:The original German translation team has been disbanded for quite some time and now what is left moves back to Nottingham these days. If the French, Italian or Spanish markets ar an indicator of what to come than German versions will be quite rare in the not so far future.

And the power-shrinking of GW continues. Only thing we can hope is that GW survives the 2 last years of Tom Kirby, the Götterdämmerung, before some common sense and standard economic wisdom returns to the higher management.

To be honest, I'll personally see to the deaths of the newest French translation team. They went ahead and tried fixing things that weren't broken, getting us new lame terms for no apparent reasons.

 Alpharius wrote:
English harder than Mandarin Chinese?

I might have to close this thread now...!

Once you get the difference between the tones, Mandarin is easy peasy. Writing Mandarin on the other hand... that's another kettle of fish.

I actually find Japanese the easiest to learn because it has very simple rules and the pronunciations are the same as Tagalog (except for the r/l). I've heard people telling me French and German are very hard languages to learn, too but I don't have experiences in them.

But for a non-native speaker, English is very hard to learn. And I have the advantage of being semi-exposed in it, because everyone and their grandma here has English as a second language and at worst can speak smatterings of it.

Only native English speakers think that English is easy, and yet you can see a lot of them misusing words. I don't think it's because most of them are idiots (but I'll give it to you that some of them most definitely are): it's because English has so many rules that you'll definitely gonna miss a few. Saying things like "just learn English or don't play the game" just reeks of arrogance and ethnocentrism. imagine how American/British/Australian Infinity players would feel if the rules are just available in Spanish and you need to learn the language in order to play, and when asked for a translation the Spanish players would tell them "well, why don't YOU learn Spanish or quit playing?".


Back on topic, I'm not too affected by this change given the fact that I am fluent (I think?) in English. And even if if say, I can't speak English, it would not be that much of a hindrance to me if i really want to buy it. But I might feel a bit alienated about the change especially if it was available in my native language in the past and now it's gone. Again with the Infinity what-if scenario, how would a native English speaker feel if all the units are named and labelled in Spanish? Those who truly love the models will buy them anyway, but I would surmise that they'll feel a bit... off (for lack of a better word) that it's not in English.

In the end, for me it's not that big of a deal but it'll bug me for a moment.

cadbren wrote:
I don't believe Sternguard is a traditional term in English. An army is led by the Van (guard), but the men at the back are the rearguard, not the sternguard, which as you said is a nautical term.
I realise marines are sort of nautical in theme, but for consistency the Vanguard should be called the Bowguard or the Prowguard as bow and prow refer to the forward parts of a ship.

The term "rearguard" is rarely used in English these days. It's not the 18th century anymore, and the term "rear" in modern military parlance has a negative connotation (non-combat support troops are described as being "in the rear with the gear" and there is the charming acronym "REMF" or "Rear Echelon Mother Fether"). Outside of a military context, the idiom "fighting a rearguard action" means to fight a battle that has already been lost. As a result, "rearguard" would be a pretty terrible name for toy soldiers designed primarily for sale in an English-speaking market. However, "Stern" means unrelenting and harsh. It also means the aft-most portion of a ship. That's a lot more evocative and flavorful for an unyielding unit of veterans experienced in fighting at range.

Although "vanguard" isn't used too much in modern military parlance, its common English usage is very dynamic and positive. It suggests boldness and being at the forefront. It's a pretty good name for toy soldiers designed primarily for sale in an English-speaking market. "Prowguard" and "Bowguard"? Not so much.

Of course, we're talking about made up names for models that depict completely fictional units in a completely fictional military organization. Consistency and tradition are kind of beside the point. I mean, in the real world, "Dreadnought" and "Ironclad" are terms for warships, not heavily armed combat cyborgs.

cadbren wrote:
Okay I just looked this up, but vanguard comes from medieval French Avant-garde which raises the question why the Vanguard aren't called Avante-garde in French since the word came from them originally. Instead they're called Veteran assault marines. Of course it being 40k and everything stays the same or goes backward, maybe avante-garde would send the wrong message.

No. That's not why. It's because, over the past two centuries, "avant-garde" has taken on a new meaning in French, one that describes a certain approach to art and culture. Using the term "avant-garde" would call to mind images of radical Bohemians experimenting at the fringes of the art world, which probably isn't the association GW is going for.

 BrookM wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
That's all nice and well, but not all countries (inhabitants) are skilled in the english language, so translation need to be done, if all the rulebooks would only be in english they could kiss a large market goodby.

I noticed that...especially since you clearly haven't read the rest of my post(s)...

Sorry, English is difficult to comprehend.

In other words; Miljaar ik had die laatste zinnen niet gezien. potjandorie!

Talking like Urbanus does not excuse you from quoting out context.

But it did make me laugh, which is a good thing!

 frozenwastes wrote:
Yeah, people exposed to different phonemes than those present in English can often grasp the tone differences in Mandarin far more easily than native English speakers. The sounds of the language you grow up with have a massive impact on what languages are easier and harder to learn. And then add in that English does not have consistent rules as it is a amalgam and bastardization of a bunch of other languages.

The times I've been to Europe, I've noticed that many, many products have a huge variety of languages on them. It's really, really strange to remove them.

Products sold in the UK very rarely have multiple languages on them. The ones that do tend to be the cheap/low market end, which is a possible reason GW want to remove languages from the box. It does look a *bit* tacky, but I couldn't really care either way.

is it on the back of the new boxes or in the instruction booklets??

If there are any Eldar players out there who have one of those new boxes then maybe they could answer it.

I also like having the other languages names on there because I practice my french one them!! Who knew warhammer 40k could be eductional...

Can't GW just milk this out? Have different box art for different regions of the world. Meaning he German box will have the English and German names on there and a specific picture on the front. The French box has a different picture on the front and then French and English text.

That way you might have those nutty collectors who will try to collect all the different versions of the boxes.

Youngblood13 wrote:

cadbren wrote:
I don't believe Sternguard is a traditional term in English. An army is led by the Van (guard), but the men at the back are the rearguard, not the sternguard, which as you said is a nautical term.
I realise marines are sort of nautical in theme, but for consistency the Vanguard should be called the Bowguard or the Prowguard as bow and prow refer to the forward parts of a ship.

The term "rearguard" is rarely used in English these days. It's not the 18th century anymore, and the term "rear" in modern military parlance has a negative connotation (non-combat support troops are described as being "in the rear with the gear" and there is the charming acronym "REMF" or "Rear Echelon Mother Fether"). Outside of a military context, the idiom "fighting a rearguard action" means to fight a battle that has already been lost. As a result, "rearguard" would be a pretty terrible name for toy soldiers designed primarily for sale in an English-speaking market. However, "Stern" means unrelenting and harsh. It also means the aft-most portion of a ship. That's a lot more evocative and flavorful for an unyielding unit of veterans experienced in fighting at range.

Either way, Sternguard is an awful name. It's effectively an official form of 'Angry Marines' if you go with the dour, strict meaning of stern. If you go with the nautical term then they become the rear echelon troops, the reserves.
If you want to evoke them in the sense of household troops who are only used in the most dire of circumstances, then call them something like the Chapter Guard, but better.

 DrSchwartz wrote:
If there are any Eldar players out there who have one of those new boxes then maybe they could answer it.

Sorry, no Eldar players have the new September Space Marine boxes yet. Neither do Space Marine players.
Changes start with September releases.

xruslanx wrote:
Products sold in the UK very rarely have multiple languages on them. The ones that do tend to be the cheap/low market end, which is a possible reason GW want to remove languages from the box. It does look a *bit* tacky, but I couldn't really care either way.

German products usually have multiple languages on them, because they are so good that other countries want to buy them as well

As a Dakka reader, I'm used to most english names to units (most, not all), but this can be a trouble when facing the GW preferred target client (kids and teens). Even lots of adults can't read in English, and this policy punish them.

Also, using previous examples: a German dude searching for a "scriptor" for his kid in GW's website is redirected to a product which picture says "librarian" but is described (in German) as a scriptor. This doesn't match. He can hesitate and quit without buying.

I think, boxes should be named, at least, in every language that has its own codex (using the same box, of course). If there is not Bulgarian codex, I understand there is not Bulgarian named box***, but if there is Spanish Codex, I would like to have Spanish named boxes. Hope this doesn't lead to just English products.

And finally, I liked to learn units in other languages, but this is less important (love my Symbionten/Genoraptor box!!).

And to those that defend that picture says enough, let's remove every name from boxes.

***Note: the author doesn't have anything against Bulgarian codices. In fact, the author would like to see codices translated to every language, even Sanskrit.

cadbren wrote:
Either way, Sternguard is an awful name. It's effectively an official form of 'Angry Marines' if you go with the dour, strict meaning of stern. If you go with the nautical term then they become the rear echelon troops, the reserves.
If you want to evoke them in the sense of household troops who are only used in the most dire of circumstances, then call them something like the Chapter Guard, but better.

"Stern" and "dour" are mostly synonymous, but they do have different connotations. "They thought he would break under questioning, but he was made of sterner stuff than that." "The judge was stern, but fair." "The government is introducing stern new measures to deal with piracy." That's how the term "stern" is usually used. Substitute "angry" or "dour" and those formulations don't work. "Stern" may refer to the aft-most portion of the ship, but at least it's still on the ship, so the term doesn't really suggest "rear echelon".

Like I said, I think the term is pretty evocative and flavorful, in a way that "Chapter Guard, but better" probably isn't and "rearguard" definitely isn't.

That points to one of the problems with translating things. Whether you or I personally like the term, it's clear that the designers were going for a certain vibe. The French name on the box is "squad of supporting veterans," which is pretty bland in any language. It's a really poor translation. While it would be easy for me to simply say that GW fails at translation, people who are fluent enough in a language to translate stuff at even that level don't come cheap, people who are fluent enough to do it well are even more expensive. Especially when it comes to more technical writing, like the kind that goes into rulebooks. Add to that the cost of printing rulebooks and employing customer service personnel who can field questions and deal with issues in different languages, and those costs add up quickly. People have been getting a bit indignant that GW is closing the door on foreign customers (which is probably true), but they just might not have the resources to translate the game into several foreign-language markets and provide the necessary support.

cadbren wrote:

Either way, Sternguard is an awful name. It's effectively an official form of 'Angry Marines' if you go with the dour, strict meaning of stern. If you go with the nautical term then they become the rear echelon troops, the reserves.
If you want to evoke them in the sense of household troops who are only used in the most dire of circumstances, then call them something like the Chapter Guard, but better.

It is an awful name... if you don't know what stern means. But in reality, stern means uncompromising, strict, tough, rather than angry - and bringing up the rear doesn't make them rear echelon troops, it makes them like the triarii, the toughest, oldest troops who you rely on in a crisis.

I wonder if it's anything to do with changes to the translation team? I know the Japanese stuff used to be done by a Japanese woman in Nottingham, maybe it's a change in that regard? Staff have been reduced in other areas, although that wouldn't stop them paying £50 to get a list of words translated so perhaps is unlikely to be the reason..

Couldn't it just be a preview of the box before the languages have been added?

 heartserenade wrote:

But for a non-native speaker, English is very hard to learn. And I have the advantage of being semi-exposed in it, because everyone and their grandma here has English as a second language and at worst can speak smatterings of it.

It was only when teaching for a couple of years overseas that I realised what a bloody awkward language English is! The number of different rules involved regularly sends foreign learners into the depths of despair. From language teaching professionals I've been told this is because of the number of influences that it has (i.e. the number of countries that 'visited' the UK over the past 2000 years, and which all introduced elements into the local lingo). Chinese is difficult for a similar reason, as it's an old language with many influences that has evolved over time. Newer languages, like Korean, (which was essentially constructed because Chinese was such a mish-mash) are far more like a mathematical formula in how they work, and far easier to learn as a result.

 Malika2 wrote:
Can't GW just milk this out? Have different box art for different regions of the world. Meaning he German box will have the English and German names on there and a specific picture on the front. The French box has a different picture on the front and then French and English text.

That way you might have those nutty collectors who will try to collect all the different versions of the boxes.

that would be hugely expensive for no real benefit. Either multi lingual or english only, they'd still be much better off with just one box per product.

Aye, there is no profit to be had in a box for every country or demograph.

Youngblood13 wrote:
People have been getting a bit indignant that GW is closing the door on foreign customers (which is probably true), but they just might not have the resources to translate the game into several foreign-language markets and provide the necessary support.

If this is the reason, GW must be in a dire state indeed. My international clients certainly don't have GW's turnover and usually shell out the few thousand bucks for translations (of legal documents exceeding a codex's length by far) without a flinch if they are necessary.

I'd still assume it's part of their ongoing crusade to recapture their IP from the infidels, but then again, maybe they've finally run out of other costs to cut in order to prop up their profit.

Youngblood13 wrote:

cadbren wrote:
Either way, Sternguard is an awful name. It's effectively an official form of 'Angry Marines' if you go with the dour, strict meaning of stern. If you go with the nautical term then they become the rear echelon troops, the reserves.
If you want to evoke them in the sense of household troops who are only used in the most dire of circumstances, then call them something like the Chapter Guard, but better.

"Stern" and "dour" are mostly synonymous, but they do have different connotations. "They thought he would break under questioning, but he was made of sterner stuff than that." "The judge was stern, but fair." "The government is introducing stern new measures to deal with piracy." That's how the term "stern" is usually used.

Yeah thanks, I'm quite au fait with what the word means, and it still makes an awful name. What next, the Grit Squad? The Brute Squad?


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Allod wrote:

Youngblood13 wrote:
People have been getting a bit indignant that GW is closing the door on foreign customers (which is probably true), but they just might not have the resources to translate the game into several foreign-language markets and provide the necessary support.

If this is the reason, GW must be in a dire state indeed. My international clients certainly don't have GW's turnover and usually shell out the few thousand bucks for translations (of legal documents exceeding a codex's length by far) without a flinch if they are necessary.

I'd still assume it's part of their ongoing crusade to recapture their IP from the infidels, but then again, maybe they've finally run out of other costs to cut in order to prop up their profit.

They seem to be about "the brand" these days. They may feel that by having set names for their product it makes it them easier to identify from a marketing perspective. If everyone is talking about 'Space Marines' and 'Sternguard' rather than local language variations, it makes those product identities stronger. It's not about ignoring other languages, but about having a common set of terms that everyone knows, kind of how the scientific community relies heavily on latin and greek words to provide a common framework for scientists from around the world to discuss technical details.

Between this and the DMCA BS, you would swear GW is a company from 'AMERICA.

BrookM wrote:Aye, there is no profit to be had in a box for every country or demograph.

But there is guaranteed less profit, if 80% of the German, Spanish, Chinese and Japanese customers can't read the content of the boxes and blisters anymore.

Youngblood13 wrote:People have been getting a bit indignant that GW is closing the door on foreign customers (which is probably true), but they just might not have the resources to translate the game into several foreign-language markets and provide the necessary support.

Shipping is even more expensive. Maybe GW should sell their products only in the Nottingham area.

BTW the names of the units already exist and translation work on them is done, GW just can't be bothered to print them on the products anymore.
Also, GW has so much money they can't find a use for, they have to give it to the shareholders. This is the official line in their business report.

You might like to add to that how they treat their english speaking customers in the Southern Hemisphere.

 Kroothawk wrote:

BrookM wrote:Aye, there is no profit to be had in a box for every country or demograph.

But there is guaranteed less profit, if 80% of the German, Spanish, Chinese and Japanese customers can't read the content of the boxes and blisters anymore.

So 80% of German, Spanish, Chinese, and Japanese customers can't read English?

I call shenanigans on this statement.

Okay, I get that some of us dislike GW, but aren't we treading across the border into Sillytown? I mean, we still know what's in the box. Or is there a larger point I'm missing?

So besides all of this back and forth on rudeness, has anyone thought to include other companies that do not include foreign languages on the boxes?

Why is it just about GW? PRIVATEER PRESS doesn't include foreign languages on the front of boxes, nor does Soda Pop Miniatures. I am sure there are other companies...just checked Infinity...same thing. So what is the big deal that it is in English? My initial reaction to the first 3 pages is that this a renewed attack on GW...yet again. I guess since it is a new month it is necessary to start GW bashing. Is it just taboo to talk bad about Warmachine and Hordes like people do with GW?

I see all too often the complaints against GW can be made about many miniature companies. Perhaps that is what is needed is a Privateer Press bashing thread, complaining about the following: A few bad models, odd rules, one sided tournament play, prices (yep prices) and a new one I just learned...no foreign languages on the box!!

Ive got a Psyc paper coming up, maybe I should look into this as a possible topic.