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 j31c3n wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
The lexicanum lists 250 known Chapters out of the total 1,000 Chapters. However, we only know that there are around 91 individual Chaos Space Marine Warbands, total, across the entire ten millennia. We don't have a total number of Warbands, and thus it can only be concluded that there are 91 Warbands over the entire course of ten millennia to the best of our knowledge.

Keep in mind as well, a warband isn't necessarily comparable in size to a chapter. Could be larger or smaller. In my opinion, smaller is more likely, in general. Though I think the Red Corsairs are supposed to be "legion sized."

Red Corsairs are Legion sized. By now they've recovered from the losses of the Badab War, not to mention they also recruit both VOTLW and fresh traitors. They're pretty much the poor man's Black Legion now.

And yeah, their size likely is smaller then average. Without the resources of a full Legion or a proper Chapter, a Warband probably has a harder time replacing their losses then normal. And then there's the times like the Avenging Sons, where only one Company turned traitor.

j31c3n wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
And they will wolf no wolf.

Exalted.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Astartes are highly religious, they just don't subscribe to the Imperial Cult, preferring their own chapter cults.

I thought the latest fluff stated that only an extreme minority of SM chapters (maybe just the Black Templars) religiously worshiped the Emperor?

It is. That does not, however, mean that they are not religious. Most every chapter out there religiously worships their primarch for starters, and that's without getting into the Machine Cult.

I get the feeling that they aren't as fervent as the Sororitas, though. Don't see many Astartes running around in loincloths with giant chainsaws, for example. Sure, there are Penitant Crusades, but those have always felt more political than religious to me.

I get the feeling that they aren't as fervent as the Sororitas, though. Don't see many Astartes running around in loincloths with giant chainsaws, for example. Sure, there are Penitant Crusades, but those have always felt more political than religious to me.

I would agree up to certain point with you, but marines are ultra-religious they aren't in the same sect then the Sororitas who are themselves not really in the same cult than the rest of the Imperium. Plus Astartes all wear on their chest the symbol of the Emperor which also happen to be the equivalent of the crucifix. They don't need to wear monkish cloathing to prove their faith (they do wear togas in their down time).

Admittedly, my views on the Astartes are colored by my own opinions about religiosity. (That, and the 30k ideal of the "Imperial Truth.")

Wearing the Aquila on their chest doesn't necessarily imply a religious meaning, though. The Aquila is simply the symbol of the Imperium. It's like how US troops wear an American flag patch on one shoulder.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:
Sisters are militaristic, but aren't a full fledged military force.

Oh yes, they are! It is their role.

Just a little side-note, not all Adeptas Sororitas are meant for battle. They also serve myriad other duties that nuns would do, like healing, but battle is just what we see the most in the war game that this is based off of. The Adepta Sororitas are basically just female monks, with warrior monks and non-warrior monks alike.


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 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

Considering everyone loves to point out most of the marines in the legions aren't the original marines, that means a lot of 'loyalist' marines have gone traitor to fill their ranks.

Not even close. Chaos Space Marines are constantly recruiting mortals and creating more Space Marines through the most brutal means possible, with even higher failure rates than Loyalists have. The thing is, that they are CONSTANTLY recruiting, and thus are constantly creating more Space Marines no matter that the quota has been filled.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 j31c3n wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I suppose I'm just really annoyed that one of my favourite armies isn't really as awesome on the tabletop as it should be...

And yes, it would be awesome if every faction recieved the same attention as C: SM, which honestly is the way it should be. Hands down it is the best codex GW has made.

In my local gaming group, I am notorious for pointing out and complaining about (what I think are) minor mechanical flaws and design errors. The latest C:SM is the recordholder for "least complaints" from me - only one. I still miss the trait tables from 4th edition. :(

Buuuuut anyways. I still contend that fluffwise, ATSKNF represents the duty and focus instilled in a Marine by their daily devotions and adherence to the Codex Astartes (even the non-Codex chapters like the Space Wolves and the Black Templars would be pretty idiotic to not at least consult the book from time to time for tactical or spiritual advice) and/or that chapter's equivalent tradition.

Marines lose ATSKNF when they defect because they are no longer limited to that austere and spartan lifestyle. Their newfound freedom blunts their focus and adherence to duty.

Please explain to me why the very concept of fear was alien to the Pre-Heresy Luna Wolves, then

Just in case you can't, it would make the most sense that the chemical glands that produce fear hormones and pheromones have been dulled in Astartes so that the emotion of "fear" is almost impossible to evoke in them, but still possible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To the people posting about how superior the Sororitas are to the Space Marines:

Your average Space Marine is, first and foremost, a soldier. There are your knightly Chapter (DA), your monastic Chapters (BT), and your downright insane Chapters (Mino.), and there are the Chapters that are all 3, but the vast majority of Chapters are soldiers, not monks, or knights of Paladins. Something that the Ultramarines have brought to play is that Space Marines are soldiers, not Angels, or Knights, or Vikings, or Mongols, or or or. The vast majority of your Space Marines are soldiers with the most severe levels of brainwashing and biologcal modifications (think KGB-level brainwashing), while the Emperor is just a great man who died 10k years ago. A huge part of the reason that "so many" (very few have actually fallen since the Heresy) have fallen is that most of your Space Marines do not see the Emperor as the God or the Omnissiah, but simply a man that they now fight for for reasons that they don't understand but have been brainwashed into not questioning.

Then, you have Chapters like the Soul Drinkers and the Salamanders, who fight for the good of humanity. You have Chapters like the Blood Angels and Black Templars, who revere the Emperor as a god. These are the Chapters that you will see Chaos struggling to turn, even moreso than ordinary Chapters, because these Chapters falling would demonstrate the absolute fallability and weakness of modern Astartes. However, time and again, Chaos fails to bring these Chapters into the fold. Why? Because they have something greater to fight for than their Chapter, or glory, or obeying their psycho-indoctrination; a greater good. They have genuine reasons to serve the Imperium, and thus are far more difficult to bring down.


Then, we go to the Adeptas Sororitas. These are essentially female monks, pure and simple. They have their military arm (SoB), that also acts as the military arm of the Ordo Heretics (might have been Malleus, not sure on that one) and the Ecclesiarchy. They have their healers and Saints, builders and public servants. But, here we are discusing their Sisters of Battle. Why has only a single member of the Adeptas Sororitas ever fallen to Chaos? It is simple really, only a few contributing factors. I'll make a list, because lists please me.

1.) Elitism. They only choose the most faithful and able to join their ranks, and thus ensure that their people are strong (mentally and spiritually). The faiths of those they choose cannot be questionable, and thus they (in this manner) are superior to the Astartes, for the Astartes regulate predilection and talent for combat, but not necessarily faith.
2.) Training. They are trained to face the horrors of the galaxy. They learn about the Daemons of Chaos, they learn about how they may be perverted from the light, they are taught how to counter these threats and they are taught how to combat them.
3.) Monastic lifestyle. The Spartan lives of the Adeptas Sororitas ensure that they do not acquire addictions or soft spots. Their monastic traditions and complete and utter devotion to the Emperor ensure that even when faced with the lies the Imperium may try to feed them (exposed for what they are), they will still refuse Chaos; for they know that the Emperor's divine hand is behind them.



From the evidence that I have acquired in both the Horu Heresy novels and ordinary 40k novels, the Space Marines acquired ATSKNF through a combination of brainwashing, cultural stigma, and brain suppression. The very neural response of fear is weakened in the process of becoming Astartes, and thus it is almost impossible to elicit fear in an Astartes unless what they are facing is absolutely fearsome and terrible - like failure.

j31c3n wrote:I get the feeling that they aren't as fervent as the Sororitas, though. Don't see many Astartes running around in loincloths with giant chainsaws, for example. Sure, there are Penitant Crusades, but those have always felt more political than religious to me.

That's just because Repentia duty isn't part of the majority of Space Marine chapter cults. Some chapters do, however, have something similar. Imperial Fists spend hours upon hours repenting in the Pain Glove. The Angels Resplendent put their entire chapter into repentia-style service when they became the Angels Penitent. Blood Angels who begin to fall into the Black Rage often consign themselves voluntarily to the Death Company to make sure they don't fall and betray their squad by accident. Mantis Warriors exile themselves to the Mantidae... and so on and so forth.

 dusara217 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:
Sisters are militaristic, but aren't a full fledged military force.

Oh yes, they are! It is their role.

Just a little side-note, not all Adeptas Sororitas are meant for battle. They also serve myriad other duties that nuns would do, like healing, but battle is just what we see the most in the war game that this is based off of. The Adepta Sororitas are basically just female monks, with warrior monks and non-warrior monks alike.

Not exactly. All Sororitas, whether they're Militant, Famulous, Dialogous, Hospitaller, Sabine or Pronatus receive the same basic training in weaponry and armour. They are all at the very least trained to use a bolter and power armour before they're selected by their Order. Even then, a Sister can request to be transferred to another Order - militant or otherwise.

To the people posting about how superior the Sororitas are to the Space Marines:

Being a saint has nothing to do with being a Sororitas, and Marines have some of the most knowledgeable healers in the galaxy in the form of the Apothecarion. It's got nothing to do with how focussed on being 'soldiers' the Astartes are, because the Adepta Sororitas Orders Militant are ever bit as much the consummate soldier as the Astartes. You keep trying to say that the Sororitas aren't as much soldiers because they're also nuns. That is because you're operating under a vital misconception: To the Orders Militant, war is worship. Morning prayers are as likely to include bolter drill as they are to include kneeling on a wooden bench or a rubber mat with their hands together. Every stroke of a spade when planting a devotional garden is practice with a Sarissa. Every hymn of glory is a marching song. The Sisters do not sacrifice their soldiering for religion. Their soldiering is religion.. and as for the 'healers, builders etc', they mostly have direct Astartes equivalents. Hospitaller/Apothecary. Dialogous/Librarian (although without the witchery), Pronatus/Librarian, etc. Although I'm not sure where you get the builders from. There's no Order Enginerius.

Next, the idea that Space Marines don't venerate the Emperor. The Space Marines most definitely do venerate the Emperor. They may not see him as a God, but they most certainly venerate him as the pinnacle of Humanity and their father.

1.) Elitism. They only choose the most faithful and able to join their ranks, and thus ensure that their people are strong (mentally and spiritually). The faiths of those they choose cannot be questionable, and thus they (in this manner) are superior to the Astartes, for the Astartes regulate predilection and talent for combat, but not necessarily faith.
2.) Training. They are trained to face the horrors of the galaxy. They learn about the Daemons of Chaos, they learn about how they may be perverted from the light, they are taught how to counter these threats and they are taught how to combat them.
3.) Monastic lifestyle. The Spartan lives of the Adeptas Sororitas ensure that they do not acquire addictions or soft spots. Their monastic traditions and complete and utter devotion to the Emperor ensure that even when faced with the lies the Imperium may try to feed them (exposed for what they are), they will still refuse Chaos; for they know that the Emperor's divine hand is behind them.

Point #2 confuses me. Thorough as Sororitas training is, I severely doubt that Space Marines are not taught how to fight daemons. Exorcisms are a proven technique, not 'religious mumbo-jumbo', so if the Sororitas are trained to use them, its a safe bet the Astartes are too.



From the evidence that I have acquired in both the Horu Heresy novels and ordinary 40k novels, the Space Marines acquired ATSKNF through a combination of brainwashing, cultural stigma, and brain suppression. The very neural response of fear is weakened in the process of becoming Astartes, and thus it is almost impossible to elicit fear in an Astartes unless what they are facing is absolutely fearsome and terrible - like failure.

You people are constantly derailing this thread. It's not about it's effectiveness, it's not about if it's right or wrong and it's definitely NOT about SoB.

So please stop, or make another thread.

The OP has received his/her/its answer. It was introduced as a part of Codex Astartes just after the Horus Heresy to prevent another galactic-scale civil war from happening.

/Thread.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but consider why chaos marines turned to chaos. Personal gain. They are selfish. So where a space marine is willing to sacrifice his life for the emporer, a chaos marine will m not do the se for the chaos gods. Why? The chaos marine serves chaos because it benefits him (with a few exceptions), but the loyalist serves out of devotion to the emporer... Not himself. When in a hopeless situation, a loyalist will serve the emporer. The traitor will serve himself.

TLR Chaos serve the gods because it benefits them. Loyalists serve the empires from devotion.

Also, I have seen a few comments on how 30k marines Don't have it... I don't think we should use rules to justify fluff.

Many Chaos Marines turned because they were betrayed by the Imperium or out of loyalty to their immediate leaders, actually.

Also, Finland, the thread is actually about why Vanilla Marines get ATSKNF and nobody else does, even other armies that have the same benefits as them. So the SoB talk is actually completely on topic.

 Wyzilla wrote:
The lexicanum lists 250 known Chapters out of the total 1,000 Chapters. However, we only know that there are around 91 individual Chaos Space Marine Warbands, total, across the entire ten millennia.

There are 5 loyalist marines codex and only one imperial guard codex. Therefore, there are 5 times as many loyalist marines as there are imperial guard.
.
This is what your logic looks like. There are less chaos space marine warband listed, because chaos marines get way, way, less spotlight than loyalists.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dusara217 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:
Sisters are militaristic, but aren't a full fledged military force.

Oh yes, they are! It is their role.

Just a little side-note, not all Adeptas Sororitas are meant for battle.

Not all Sororitas, but yes all Sisters of Battle.

 dusara217 wrote:
The Adepta Sororitas are basically just female monks, with warrior monks and non-warrior monks alike.

The militant orders have the lion's share of the total number of Sororitas, which is unsurprising given how they were created: as a personal army by the most powerful man on the Imperium.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
The lexicanum lists 250 known Chapters out of the total 1,000 Chapters. However, we only know that there are around 91 individual Chaos Space Marine Warbands, total, across the entire ten millennia.

There are 5 loyalist marines codex and only one imperial guard codex. Therefore, there are 5 times as many loyalist marines as there are imperial guard.
.
This is what your logic looks like. There are less chaos space marine warband listed, because chaos marines get way, way, less spotlight than loyalists.

What the hell does that even mean? That rebuttal is merely a false analogy that doesn't even make sense to the original statement and point. Out of ALL currently known Chaos Warbands, for the entire past ten millennium, there are only roughly 91 individual Warbands, and the number of those who are actually former loyalists may even be lower, given the founding of some of those Warbands is unknown. There's no set number for Chaos Astartes like the Loyalists' approximate one thousand Chapters, indeed, there isn't truly a need for many Chaos Warbands given that the Black Legion, Word Bearers, Iron Warriors, Red Corsairs, and Alpha Legion certainly are the size of their former loyal legions (in the case of the Black Legion, probably greater), which reduces the needed amount of Chaos Warbands to equal/rival the number of Loyalist Marines.

You only operate off what is already known, and the data states that there are only 91 active Chaos Space Marine Warbands formed over the course of the past ten millennia in 40K, and we have nothing pointing to any greater amount.

Your quoted argument is a false analogy that doesn't make a lick of sense compared to my original statement, and your entire point banks on an appeal to probability, when there is nothing to suggest that there IS more Chaos Space Marine Warbands. At best you may be looking at a number around a hundred or very generously, a hundred and fifty total, and that's it. GW not publishing more material is not a valid argument- you only argue and judge off what is already known, not which is unknown (which is an argument from ignorance). And mind you, I am saying this as a Chaos Space Marine player and fan, considering that Night Lords are downright my favorite sub-faction.

Unless there is further evidence, there is no reason to believe the number is sufficiently greater at all. "Oh noez GW doesn't produce enough material for C:CSM" is not an argument, and not a blank cheque to immediately assume a staggering around of traitor Chapters. Hell it's also unsupported by the lore in the first place, just look at how the allies of the Astral Claws in the Badab War realized the error of their ways and repented for their sins and being misled (rather then cutting their losses and simply fleeing into the Maelstrom). Who gets the spotlight is irrelevant.

But by all means, please do proof the information that has apparently so convinced you of the staggering amount of Astartes Chapters that so regularly turn traitor, when last stands are among the main tropes of the Adeptus Astartes, to the point that one Legion is downright infamous for them.

@dusara217

Space Marines cannot be soldiers because they don't don't sign contracts of enlistment, receive no pay for their work, aren't directly linked to a political power who commands them and don't answer to any other military structure but their own. They are warriors and Chapters are armies, but they are not soldiers. They finance their activity by being granted stewardship of planets, recruit from the locals who don't even need to be volonteers and once Space Marines they remain until their death or betrayal. They are much like saxon huskarls or knights or golden riders, etc. In history, we consider the first real army with professionnal soldiers to be the Marius reformed roman legion and the next one would be the sweedish national army of the 30 years war. The Militant Sisters are in the exact same spot, warriors and armie, but not soldiers.

Just thought you might like to know that. You can read Clausewitz if you want to learn more.

epronovost wrote:


Space Marines cannot be soldiers
because they don't don't sign contracts of enlistment,
receive no pay for their work,
aren't directly linked to a political power who commands them
and don't answer to any other military structure but their own.

To ignore the Emperor is Heresy.

So be happy some orkmoticons are all you got.

Codex Chaos Space Marines 4e wrote:Though there are no complete accounts even in the archives of the Inquisition, the lords of the Ordo Malleus believe that as many as fifty Space Marine Chapters have fully fallen to the wiles of Chaos since the end of the Horus Heresy.

Not too bad for 10k years.

Going back to the follow up question of if the Astrates received the necessary training and hypnoconditioning to receive ATSKNF after the heresy, does this mean that when a current marine switches allegiances to Chaos that the process also involves breaking or overcoming the conditioning that grants them ATSKNF?

Do Primarchs have ATSKNF? For example, the Salamanders find Vulcan out there and he returns to lead his Chapter, I'm assuming he will lack the discipline, indoctrination, whatever we want to call it to have no fear. I wonder what he (or any other loyalist primarch) would think about the way his chapter has been manipulated by the Imperium?

@1hadhq

I don't get your point? Am I wrong when I say they don't receive any pay, sign no vonlonteering contracts for a specific period of time, aren't subjected to the Departemento Munitorum edict and authority and don't have to take orders from Imperial Guards officers or commissars? From what I know from them, they choose which battles they want to fight, obey only members of their Chapters. control their own lands and don't have to respect Imperial laws. They are just like vassals. They do have a relation to the Imperial Command structure, but it's not throught a civil contract, but throught oaths and traditions.

Stravo wrote:
Do Primarchs have ATSKNF?

Primarchs have the Primarch rule, which grants Independant Character, Master of the Legion, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Adamantium Will, Fleet, Fearless, and It Will Not Die!. Sheesh.

 j31c3n wrote:

Stravo wrote:
Do Primarchs have ATSKNF?

Primarchs have the Primarch rule, which grants Independant Character, Master of the Legion, Eternal Warrior, Fear, Adamantium Will, Fleet, Fearless, and It Will Not Die!. Sheesh.

Waitwaitwait. The immortal Primarchs, leaders and scions of the greatest armies Humanity has ever gathered, peerless warriors, tacticans, smiths and artists... Has as much instict of self-preservation as a fething robot?!

@The Wise Dane

Primarchs are invicible. You don't know fear or understand it when you are inviscible so basically yes. they have the self-preservation instinct of mindless robots because no matter what they do, they can virtualy not be killed besides by magical means.

Or one another.

epronovost wrote:
@The Wise Dane

Primarchs are invicible. You don't know fear or understand it when you are inviscible so basically yes. they have the self-preservation instinct of mindless robots because no matter what they do, they can virtualy not be killed besides by magical means.

But... There's SO MUCH they wouldn't be able to understand about war and strategy, if they are immortal! Sure, they might learn that not everyone are immortal like them, but will never fully understand it or care for it, because it's not a part of their world! Human psychology, really. Besides, they all wear armour and fight with weapons, so I suppose they aren't immortal, or they'd not need those. In fact, I've never encountered the fact that they are immortal anywhere I've read about them... Sure, immortal to time, but they all have a physical and harmable body, however formidable it might be.

Why would Corax use stealth at all, if he were immortal? Why would he use the slaves of the future Deliverance to liberate the planet, instead of barging in the front door to do it himself?

How could Sanguinius be killed as a little child (as the tribesmen were planning)? How could Horus kill him? Because he is immortaler?!

Where did Guilliman learn all his experience of regular human war, when he would never have experienced itself, as his form of war would be different (basically a Rambo killingspree)?

I mean, I get why Angron would be Fearless, but not the likes of Guilliman or Vulkan... Subborn would be better in those cases.

The problem is the wording of the Fearless rule. It SOUNDS like a cool rule. FEARLESS! But it's a piece of junk. They should just have the rule that Marneus Calgar has that lets him decide if he's going to pass or fail Morale checks. That would make a billion times more sense.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
I mean, I get why Angron would be Fearless, but not the likes of Guilliman or Vulkan... Subborn would be better in those cases.

A primarch getting sweeping advanc'd?

 j31c3n wrote:
The problem is the wording of the Fearless rule. It SOUNDS like a cool rule. FEARLESS! But it's a piece of junk. They should just have the rule that Marneus Calgar has that lets him decide if he's going to pass or fail Morale checks. That would make a billion times more sense.

That's a general problem with the USRs, I find... Furious Charge, Fearless, Smash, Shred, And They Shall Know No Fear, Feel No Pain... I mean, Fantasy has the same to some extend, but at least some are just called Regeneration, Immune to Psychology or Extra Attack...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:
I mean, I get why Angron would be Fearless, but not the likes of Guilliman or Vulkan... Subborn would be better in those cases.

A primarch getting sweeping advanc'd?

Oh that's right, Stubborn doesn't help prevent Sweeping in 40K... Been reading to much into Fantasy xD

But, you know, if you manage that, you can just say that the Primarch went "Well, screw this" and fled the battle, to brood behind the battlelines... Or add another rule called "Fighting Another Day" or something, that let you place him in Ongoing Reserves with half his wounds left, representing him fleeing to come back later. Dunno, sounds fair.

Horus charges Corax. Both have 2 tactical marines with them. Corax' tactical marines kills a Sons of Horus tactical marine. Horus loses combat, flees and gets swept.

#forgingthenarrative

They could write the Black Library Rule

"Everyone Lives to Fight Another Day"

Rule text: Primarch battles have no consequence. If a Primarch model loses a combat with another Primarch model, immediately return two troop models to play who take its place while the losing Primarch model retreats with the closest unit.

 Wyzilla wrote:
You only operate off what is already known, and the data states that there are only 91 active Chaos Space Marine Warbands formed over the course of the past ten millennia in 40K,

No, the data does not point to that. The data point states that there are at least 91 named active Chaos Space Marine Warband, and an unknown amount of unamed Chaos Space Marines Warband. Just like the data states that there are 250 named active Space Marines Chapters, and 750 unamed Space Marine Chapter.

 Wyzilla wrote:
when there is nothing to suggest that there IS more Chaos Space Marine Warbands.

The simple fact there was no set number ever given and new warbands keep getting introduced regularly suggest that there are more Chaos Space Marine Warbands, actually.

 Wyzilla wrote:
At best you may be looking at a number around a hundred or very generously, a hundred and fifty total, and that's it.

If I was to apply the same assumption on the proportion of unnamed chapters versus named chapters, it would give us around 300 chapters, way less than the actual number given in the fluff. Hence the assumption is plain out wrong to make.

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:


You people are constantly derailing this thread. It's not about it's effectiveness, it's not about if it's right or wrong and it's definitely NOT about SoB.

So please stop, or make another thread.

The OP has received his/her/its answer. It was introduced as a part of Codex Astartes just after the Horus Heresy to prevent another galactic-scale civil war from happening.

/Thread.

Please explain to me why the very concept of fear was foreign to Garviel Loken and the other Astartes of the Luna Wolves, then.


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@ Furyou Miku

Space Marines are soldiers in the sense that they aren't religious warriors, they fight and then they fight and they train to fight, they don't worship and practice art, etc. etc. Their driving motivation is loyalty to the Chapter and the Imperium, which is incredibly finite when compared to relgion and faith.


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@ Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl
This:

Animus wrote:

Codex Chaos Space Marines 4e wrote:Though there are no complete accounts even in the archives of the Inquisition, the lords of the Ordo Malleus believe that as many as fifty Space Marine Chapters have fully fallen to the wiles of Chaos since the end of the Horus Heresy.

Not too bad for 10k years.

That quote talks about entire chapters falling, which is admittedly rare. It does not talk about the entire number of marines that have fallen (ranging from individual marines, squads and even companies in additional to the aforementioned ~50 chapters)