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 SRSFACE wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

The point of YMDC is to find the RAW.

No, it's not. It never has been. It never will be.

There are multiple ways to interpret rules. Says so in the tenets of YMDC.

We really need to squash this idea RAW is the end-all, be-all of rules discussions. The point is YOU make the call. YOU say how you interpret the rule. That might be RAW, RAI or HYWPI. Neither is superior to another, or inferior to another.

Anyway, the rules clearly state base sizes are merely an assumption. People have failed over 5 pages now to point me to something that utilizes a hard line rule that clearly, unambiguously states how to base models. That's because such a thing doesn't exist. If anything, this is kind of the ultimate YMDC discussion. HIWPI, this is a game played by and for people who collect, build and assemble models, so wiggle room in order to make things way cooler is necessary. Therefore, sure, using what is surely going to be the next size iteration from official GW space marine boxes pre-emptively is just gravy.

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with".

Ah, GW and it's love of ambiguous rules writing. Sure, it can be argued that the missing part of this statement is "...but it is not required". However, I would argue that the cases where there are no supplied bases, the part left open by the "assumption", is outlined below: Cases where bases are not supplied or where there are unusual bases.

Also, you are correct. HIWPI/RAI is a valid way of talking about the rules. I still think it's important to determine RAW just so that we have a clear understanding of what it is.

On many situations I agree with you. It is often the baseline. However, this one the intentional ambiguity is a good thing I believe.

For one, GW themselves features guys on larger than standard bases occasionally. Kriswall brought up the Space Wolf captain from the Stormwolf boxset earlier. I've checked and double-checked my own personal box of that. I have a spare 25mm base for him, not a 40mm that he's consistently shown on in the official rules for that box set. I'm actually going to go hunt down a spare 40mm when I get around to building and painting him.

The way this rule is worded, I keep focusing in on "Sometimes, players may have models on unusual bases." That line, to me, is huge. Astronomical. This is a game for hobbyists at the end of the day, and rules allowing people to do cool things and still play a game with their bad-ass models I think is very important.

The single most important part of the model basing rule is the rule of thumb at the end about using models of a similar type as guidance.

Dare I even mention the Forge World Space Marine primarchs and their double bases now?

Do you use the Horus model on his 40mm base, or on the entire staircase he stands upon? Both are supplied, and both are 'his base'. In that same vein I chose to start the discussion about heavy weapons teams from a custom source (or in my case multiple custom sources) where no bases were supplied, and GW never gave a clear and consistent rule. Just an assumption, and then a reference to type of model, as opposed to identical sorts of models and current model kits. I know, like probably most people here, that the difference between two guardsmen on individual 25mm bases, or both on a single 60mm base, is huge. The 60mm pie plate is way easier to clip with a blast marker or template attack, and cause the heavy weapons team some damage. The same with Horus on his staircase. Conrad Curze and his archway of balance?

However, when in the spirit of the rules I mention putting custom guardsmen on 25mm bases, and making a scenic 60mm plate to put the heavy weapons team on, and people on other fora still calling me a dirty cheat, an advantage-modeling-bastard, and way more unfriendly things, where is their RAW then? They never did mention anything to oppose my arguements about that little Rulebook Page 9 entry, about models and base sizes. A list like I made a very small example of, that would be huge. That would be RAW. Spirit of the rules? I gosh-darnedly put my models on my choice of bases, which I can use in any game with people who do the same. And I haven't found a single player yet who bases his gretchin mob of 20 each on their own 60mm base. To me, it seems, a lot of people still have a bit of common sense.

The mentioning of "Sometimes, players may have models on unusual bases." makes a big difference for mee, too. It implies choice. If I want my regular power armoured Space Marine Captain on a nice, scenic 40mm base, I should be able to, and this part of the rule provides me with just that permission. "May have" grants permission, as opposed to "might have", which states there is possibility even if prohibition could be found somewhere else.

The single most important part of the model basing rule is the rule of thumb at the end about using models of a similar type as guidance.

This, however, might be problematic. Heavy Weapons Teams are of the type "Infantry". So are Chaos Space Marines Terminators. So with this rule of thumb, I base my heavy weapons teams on 40mm bases? Or on 32mm bases, as Blood Angels Space Marines are of the "Infantry" type as well and their current box set provides 32mm bases?
In my opinion, this rule of thumb is shaky, as it allows me to have Horus (Infantry) on a 25mm base (which is unusual for him even though I may have him on an unusual base as per the RAW) even despite the box coming with not one but two bases for him.

Something else to add to that is that in the early editions it was common to put Sgts and HQs on larger scenic bases.

That's because some earlier editions specifically allowed that. Already been discussed.


For that matter, I think all of the normal ground had been well and truly covered by this point, so it's probably time to put this one to bed.