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So yeah, couldn't find a clear answer anywhere.

1. I need to know if my Tactical Marines and Librarians from my Space Marines CAD can use the bases employed by their brothers from a Blood Angels AD.

It would feel really, really dumb that a Blood Angel Tactical Marine can use a 32mm base, but a Tactical Marine from another chapter cannot. However, this being Warhammer 40K we're talking about I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.

2. And what about Librarians, they are basically Space Marines, they just like sticks and books.

3. What happens if I use my Blood Angels Tactical squad models as a squad from a Space Marines armylist, as I'm playing a custom chapter, hence being able to use whatever kind of Tactical Marines models I want? They are supplied with 32mm bases, which should be used according to the rulebook. I could even make the BA models look like a standard Tactical Squad.

By the rules, the models need to be on the Bases supplied for them.
So BA Tac Squads need 32mm bases, while "normal" Tactical Squads need 25mm bases. Same for Librarians on 25mm.

If you use your Blood Angels Marines as Tactical marines for an Ultramarines Chapter for example, they need to be put on 25mm bases.

That's the rules.
If you wish to play differently to them, i'm sure it will not be a problem but let your opponent know

Ah well, I rather go by the rules, however dumb.

It would just look great, having guardsmen, scouts and other mortals being on 25mm, and the Astartes on 32mm.

 BlackTalos wrote:
So BA Tac Squads need 32mm bases

This bit has been answered to by GW though, stating 32mm isn't required for a BA Tactical Squad, but can be used if one so wishes.

 RunicFIN wrote:
Ah well, I rather go by the rules, however dumb.

It would just look great, having guardsmen, scouts and other mortals being on 25mm, and the Astartes on 32mm.

 BlackTalos wrote:
So BA Tac Squads need 32mm bases

This bit has been answered to by GW though, stating 32mm isn't required for a BA Tactical Squad, but can be used if one so wishes.

Ah well there it is if it has been answered:

All of the infantry goes on 25mm bases, but the BA Tacticals have the "option" to go 32mm, because that's the bases found in the boxes.

1. Please, use whatever you like!
2. Librarians are more powerful space marines that can cast psyhic spells.
3. You can use any type to tactical squad models you want. Just indicate which rulebook your custome chapter is based from.

wufai wrote:
1. Please, use whatever you like!
2. Librarians are more powerful space marines that can cast psyhic spells.
3. You can use any type to tactical squad models you want. Just indicate which rulebook your custome chapter is based from.

1. No. The rulebook does not say that.
2. They cannot be on 32mm bases, but what you said is correct.
3. Also correct. But they need 25mm bases if you want to follow the rules.

You don't have to follow the rules, but we are on the YMDC forum, and there are Tenets you have to follow:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/253892.page

 BlackTalos wrote:

You don't have to follow the rules, but we are on the YMDC forum, and there are Tenets you have to follow:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/253892.page

Assuming "Rules as Worded" is the only way to play is a fallacy according to the thing you linked.

So please follow the tenets of YMDC.

That said, the rules as worded do not state a model must come on the bases supplied for them.

"Models and Bases" on page 9:

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with. Sometimes a player may have models in his collection on unusually modelled bases. . . . You should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."

No where in there does it say you must mount models on the base they are supplied with.

Sounds to me you have explicit permission to use the 32mm bases, RunicFN. Just because YMDC is full of anal-retentive Asperger's types I know someone will come along and argue "But Blood Angels tacticals are not similar to Space Marine tacticals because different codexes!!!!!" There's no way future iterations of tactical marines of all shapes and sizes don't come with 32mm bases now as feedback on them has been really good, and GW seems to be fond of them.

And 99% of people who actually bother to show up to hobby stores to play will offer a hearty "Those look nice!" if you use the larger base sizes and utilize them for Rule of Cool. So, I think you're safe.

Yeah, I guess it depends on who I'm playing. Need to ask around from a few TO's about how's it gonna be.

As has been pointed out, GW doesn't strictly require this. They just require that the base be an "appropriate size". The most appropriate size just happens to normally be the base supplied with the model. Given recent releases, 32mm is perfectly appropriate for models in Power Armour. You could easily argue 40mm for Captains/Chapter Masters as the limited edition Wolf Lord guy in Deathstorm came with a 40mm base.

HOWEVER, most big tournaments seem to require you to base the models on the base the model came with.

So, while you don't have to use the supplied base, you might want to consider your main opponents and whether or not you participate in organized play when making basing decisions.

 Kriswall wrote:
You could easily argue 40mm for Captains/Chapter Masters as the limited edition Wolf Lord guy in Deathstorm came with a 40mm base.

1) The Space Wolves/Orks box was Stormclaw, not Deathstorm. Deathstorm is the Blood Angels/Tyranids one.

2) The Stormclaw box comes with ten 40mm bases. 5 for the terminators, 5 for the nobs. The captain goes on one of the myriad of 25mm bases supplied in the kit.

3) Deathstorm's limited edition Captain is a Terminator, and is on a 40mm base as a result.

I got the boxed set name wrong, but I'm talking about Krom Dragongaze. He comes with a 40mm base. I have two of them.

Huh. I literally just went through my box and there wasn't one for him in there, yet there was a spare 25mm base.

How about that quality control?

At 1:51 it definitely shows Krom on a 40mm base.

Bases and cheating question then. For those of you saying I must use the based they came with, to include tournaments, I must go back to all 25mm bases for my mega nobs instead of the 40mm I increased them to when the new ones came out? Because thinking that way is full of fail. But hey, what ever you think the rules say, I'll use when I play you.

Mega nobz have always been on 40mm bases AFAIK.

Someone already pasted the section of the rulebook that mentions base size, and it doesnt say "You have to use the base the model comes with"..I suggests it's best to, but you can use bases that similar models use as guidance... I'd say a Blood Angels tactical marine is similar enough to a regular space marine tactical marine model to use that base at guidance....

If someone calls you out for using the slightly bigger base when playing them id tell them they are a spud, pack up, and go home.

Actually the quote above is misleading. This is what the rulebook says:

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with. Sometimes a player may have models in his collection on unusually modelled bases. Some models aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness, relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance.

 Ghaz wrote:
*Stormclaw Video*

At 1:51 it definitely shows Krom on a 40mm base.

Huh, so it apparently is my box that's missing what it's supposed to. Now that I think about it, I've ONLY got ten 40mm bases and I'd need at least another for the Warboss even if Krom wasn't also on one.

I am kind of perturbed right now to be honest with you.

@Ghaz: I just snipped out the "Some models aren't supplied with a base at all" part because it wasn't relevant to this discussion.

 Ghaz wrote:
Mega nobz have always been on 40mm bases AFAIK.

The original (2nd ed, metal) meganobs were on 25mm bases.

FratHammer wrote:
Bases and cheating question then. For those of you saying I must use the based they came with, to include tournaments, I must go back to all 25mm bases for my mega nobs instead of the 40mm I increased them to when the new ones came out? .

Technically, yes, you have no permission to change the size of their bases just because new models come with a different size.

In practice, most tournaments will allow models that have been rebased to match the current release. Some just don't really care at all, so long as the base that is on the model looks appropriate... which is also the attitude I have mostly encountered amongst gamers outside tournies.

 SRSFACE wrote:

@Ghaz: I just snipped out the "Some models aren't supplied with a base at all" part because it wasn't relevant to this discussion.

It's relevant to the discussion, because it's the part that puts the 'put them on whatever seems appropriate' into context.

The rule you partially quoted isn't saying that players can just throw away their bases and use whatever they want. It's saying that if your models come with no bases, or with the wrong bases, then you should use whatever seems appropriate based on similar models. Otherwise, they're assuming you're using the bases that the model was supplied with.

 insaniak wrote:


The rule you partially quoted isn't saying that players can just throw away their bases and use whatever they want. It's saying that if your models come with no bases, or with the wrong bases, then you should use whatever seems appropriate based on similar models. Otherwise, they're assuming you're using the bases that the model was supplied with.

But that's not what it says, nor what it suggests. Some models not being supplied with a base is an example of why someone might choose alternate bases.

No, it's exactly what it says.

It lists two situations where a model may not have its normal base, and says that in 'these cases' players can use whichever base is appropriate.

It gives no suggestion that this solution applies to any other situation.

I don't know how you could look at the same words and come to such a wrong conclusion.

Tell you what. You guys find me a rule that says without any ambiguity you must use the base supplied in the GW kits, and I'll relent. But one doesn't exist, so I'm not going to.

BA need larger bases for nipples.

So 1, yes, mega nobs came with 25mm bases just like terminators, you may not have played till after that changed, but I can't help that. And so even though it would give me an advantage, along with older SM players, we are suppose to be using smaller bases even though the same models were later sold with larger bases?

Point is, this can't be right. If your model gets a new base size you have to use it. No picking the one that is more advantageous and using it. No keeping tiny bases to make sure you can get more into base to base.

Ps we can add flash gitz to this list for Orcs.

 SRSFACE wrote:
I don't know how you could look at the same words and come to such a wrong conclusion.
.

I came to that conclusion by reading the whole rules entry, rather than chopping out the bit in the middle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FratHammer wrote:
So 1, yes, mega nobs came with 25mm bases just like terminators, you may not have played till after that changed, but I can't help that. And so even though it would give me an advantage, along with older SM players, we are suppose to be using smaller bases even though the same models were later sold with larger bases?

That's the way it's been in every edition since GW added rules on bases, yes. Although (If I remember correctly) 4th edition did allow you to upgrade to a larger base if you wanted to. Commonly used to put characters on more impressive bases.

Point is, this can't be right. If your model gets a new base size you have to use it

The actual rules disagree with you.

 SRSFACE wrote:
I don't know how you could look at the same words and come to such a wrong conclusion.

Tell you what. You guys find me a rule that says without any ambiguity you must use the base supplied in the GW kits, and I'll relent. But one doesn't exist, so I'm not going to.

As has been said previously in this thread, there is no hard fast rule in the actual 40k rule set. The rules assume you are using the bases provides, but do provide exemptions for models with no bases and models that have been modeled with unusual bases. That second category basically covers all situations as you can always simply choose to model your dudes with unusual bases.

HOWEVER, if you want to play in tournament or otherwise organized play, basing your models on base sizes different from what they came with can cause problems and disqualify those models. It all depends on the rules of the event. "Must be based on the included base" seems to be a common requirement in these events.

If you only play with your friends, you could base them on Oreo cookies and then eat them as you wound models... so long as you both agree. This mainly only impacts organized play or games with strangers.

 Kriswall wrote:
That second category basically covers all situations as you can always simply choose to model your dudes with unusual bases. .

I think you have seriously misread what that passage is saying. It's not giving you permission to use odd sized bases. It's giving you permission to replace any odd sized bases that happen to be in your collection worth an appropriately sized base, using other similar models as a reference.

 insaniak wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
That second category basically covers all situations as you can always simply choose to model your dudes with unusual bases. .

I think you have seriously misread what that passage is saying. It's not giving you permission to use odd sized bases. It's giving you permission to replace any odd sized bases that happen to be in your collection worth an appropriately sized base, using other similar models as a reference.

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with. Sometimes a player may have models in his collection on unusually modelled bases. Some models aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness, relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."

I'm reading an acknowledgement that players sometimes have models with unusually modelled bases. The correct course of action in these cases is to "feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size...".

We can't control which models aren't supplied with bases, but we can certainly control whether or not our models are on unusually modelled bases. That's all I was getting at. If I want to take my model my Space Marine Chapter Master on an "unusually modelled base", it seems that all I need to do is use an appropriate base size, using models of a similar type as guidance. To me, that would mean I could probably get away with 25mm (stock base), 32mm (Blood Angels in Power Armour) or 40mm (Krom Dragongaze) bases as being appropriate. 60mm or larger would be a hard sell as I can't think of any similar models using bases that large.

 SRSFACE wrote:
I don't know how you could look at the same words and come to such a wrong conclusion.

Tell you what. You guys find me a rule that says without any ambiguity you must use the base supplied in the GW kits, and I'll relent. But one doesn't exist, so I'm not going to.

 Kriswall wrote:

 SRSFACE wrote:
I don't know how you could look at the same words and come to such a wrong conclusion.

Tell you what. You guys find me a rule that says without any ambiguity you must use the base supplied in the GW kits, and I'll relent. But one doesn't exist, so I'm not going to.

As has been said previously in this thread, there is no hard fast rule in the actual 40k rule set. The rules assume you are using the bases provides, but do provide exemptions for models with no bases and models that have been modeled with unusual bases. That second category basically covers all situations as you can always simply choose to model your dudes with unusual bases.

HOWEVER, if you want to play in tournament or otherwise organized play, basing your models on base sizes different from what they came with can cause problems and disqualify those models. It all depends on the rules of the event. "Must be based on the included base" seems to be a common requirement in these events.

If you only play with your friends, you could base them on Oreo cookies and then eat them as you wound models... so long as you both agree. This mainly only impacts organized play or games with strangers.

There are many ways in which i could argue to you why models must be based on their supplied bases.

One method:
The rules you have quoted:

"The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with. Sometimes a player may have models in his collection on unusually modelled bases. Some models aren't supplied with a base at all. In these cases (which are, in all fairness, relatively few and far between), you should always feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size if you wish, using models of a similar type as guidance."

There is a clear suggestion that "The rules in this book assume that models are mounted on the base they are supplied with." This is fact. If you want to follow the rules (as per my previous post) then these rules assume "the base they are supplied with". You have no permission to assume otherwise.

If you want to prove "suggestion is not definite rules", then please get me some RaW on what "Deep Strike Reserves" are, because all i can find is:

When placing the unit in
Reserve, you must tell your opponent that it will be arriving by Deep Strike (sometimes called Deep Strike Reserve).

"assume that" and "sometimes called" must both be "assertions", as many rules and Codices in existence refer to a term called "Deep Strike Reserve".

Second Method:
Using RaW, what allowance (following the Rules) is there to field your models onto the gaming Table? (Please provide your own RaW if you disagree)
I read my Codex:

ARMY LIST ENTRIES
Each entry in the army list represents a different unit. More information about the background and rules for the Space Marines and their options can be found in the Adeptus Astartes section, while examples of the Citadel miniatures you will need to represent them can be found in the Defenders of Humanity section.

And the Rulebook:

The Citadel miniatures used to play games of Warhammer 40,000 are referred to as ‘models’ in the rules that follow.

Every model in Warhammer 40,000 has a profile that lists the values of its characteristics. You can find these profiles in a variety of Games Workshop publications, including codexes.

So i have a look in the "Defenders of Humanity section" of the Space Marine Codex, and i see miniatures based on 25mm bases (and others). These are the only miniatures (and options) that the models on the table, by RaW, can be represented as.


I would like to conclude that is is purely Rules as Written, because we are in YMDC forums. My HIWPI and personal view on this matter is indeed that you can model your miniatures on any bases you feel fit to use. As long as Tactical marines are not on 80mm oval bases, i'm sure 32mm for all of your Infantry should be absolutely fine !

 Kriswall wrote:
I'm reading an acknowledgement that players sometimes have models with unusually modelled bases. The correct course of action in these cases is to "feel free to mount the model on a base of appropriate size..."..

Yes, that was my point.

Your previous post seemed to be suggesting that the rule was giving permission to model stuff on unusual bases, which it isn't. It's just giving permission to replace those unusual bases with 'correct' bases.