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Oh goodness... I didn't even want to go into the way loans are handled.
The original reason for Greece entering the EU was how attractive super low interest rates were.
A few interest points going up due to both restricted access to the EU loans AND being more of a credit risk being outside of the EU support group.
That could be a financial disaster depending on how the loans are distributed.
A revolution is an idea which has found its bayonets.
Napoleon Bonaparte
Da Boss wrote: There can be no more argument that the Tories are a safe pair of hands after this shambles.
There wasn't an argument for that last time once you looked at actual figures. All that matters is perception.
They'll just wait 10 years or so and then bluff that this was all Labours fault or the EUs fault.
The Labour side isnt much better. At least Blairites are still a thing to blame their woes on. JC is still the man, in spite of his Euro Scepticism......
Labour have a history of blaming Maggie for everything. It's her fault they got Milliband........
"The ratings agency Standard and Poor’s has lowered its rating of British government debt from AAA to AA following the referendum. That was the final AAA rating attached to UK government debt.
Standard and Poor’s forecast a “less predictable, stable, and effective policy framework in the UK” as one of the reasons as well as “a marked deterioration of external financing conditions in light of the U.K.’s extremely elevated level of gross external financing requirements.”
In other words, they are worried about the slide in the value of the pound given how much the UK relies on borrowing from abroad.
They also point towards wider constitutional issues created by the referendum in Scotland and Northern Ireland.
The agency said:
The negative outlook reflects the risk to economic prospects, fiscal and external performance, and the role of sterling as a reserve currency, as well as risks to the constitutional and economic integrity of the U.K. if there is another referendum on Scottish independence."
still what's a few more billions in interest payments eh ?
Is it wrong that I read that as "The global cabal of elite financial interests are pissed that the peasants are revolting."
Selym wrote: Problem is, now that the vote is out, if we don't keep reminding mourners to get on with dealing with it, we won't get anywhere.
We won't get anywhere until government actually comes up with a plan, no matter how much we think it is because we're not "pulling together", which is still a bit of a toxic phrase due to "we're all in it together" austerity.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Is the name "United Kingdom" an oxy-moron now. also
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
We won't get anywhere until government actually comes up with a plan, no matter how much we think it is because we're not "pulling together", which is still a bit of a toxic phrase due to "we're all in it together" austerity.
Right now the only plan they have is for DC to come out and say we aren't leaving the EU and he's no longer resigning. It's the only plan we have that is viable, it's taken years to put together and trying to scrap another together in 6 months is madness. It's all very well throwing yourself on the sword but it's also in my view can be cowardly because he's made the mess but he's not willing to clean it up. It's the only way we can at least stabilise things and if we know this the markets/companies damn well do too. If there was a planned brexit strategy then that would be different but there isn't and it's chaos.
I appreciate there will be a lot of gnashing of teeth because of the referendum result but given that no one has any idea at all where to go from here, that the two major parties are about to spend all their time wailing on themselves, the population is turning on itself, the pound is collapsing, the financial markets are in melt down and contracts are being cancelled. the only way of bringing some semblance of order is back track. Yes it will be the end of DC but he's done for anyway and if he wants to die by the sword he can blame the whole sorry exercise on himself.
If we wait 6 months investment will dry up, companies will move out, interest on our debt will go up, austerity measures will have to be heavier and harder.
If we stay at least we can go back to the EU and work out what's going so horribly wrong and how to extract ourselves from this sorry mess but the overall damage should be light except to our reputation.
Oh and for the comment why the EU isn't helping well their markets are in turmoil too. Japan is having to force devaluing its yen to ensure exports are viable. China is adjusting its currency too. Also we didn't help bailout Greece so why should they bail us out? It's having the cake and eating it.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Monokuma wrote: Why do people assume the European Union is fixable.
Everything is fixable if you are willing to put the blood sweat and tears into it. Just quitting solves nothing other than not looking at yourself as to why things went wrong. Leaving the EU is not going to sort any of the problems that this country faces (including how we deal with the underlying xenophobia).
There are no quick fixes unlike how the leave campaign has sold itself.
"Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. " - V
I've just supported the Permanent European Union Citizenship initiative. Please do the same and spread the word!
"It's not a problem if you don't look up." - Dakka's approach to politics
Monokuma wrote: Why do people assume the European Union is fixable.
Everything is fixable if you are willing to put the blood sweat and tears into it. Just quitting solves nothing other than not looking at yourself as to why things went wrong. Leaving the EU is not going to sort any of the problems that this country faces (including how we deal with the underlying xenophobia).
There are no quick fixes unlike how the leave campaign has sold itself.
That assumes the EU wants to fix things..
Right now it spends millions on two parliament buildings. And moves between.
Waste like that is just mental.
Sgt. Vanden - OOC Hey, that was your doing. I didn't choose to fly in the "Dongerprise'.
"May the odds be ever in your favour"
Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.
FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.
Italian officials are studying a direct state recapitalisation of the banks, to be funded by a special bond issue. They also want a moratorium of so-called ‘bail-in’ rules and bondholder write-downs, but these steps are impossible under EU laws. Mr Renzi raised the subject urgently at a meeting with German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French president Francois Hollande at a Brexit summit in Berlin on Monday.
“There has to be a suspension of the bail-in rules and state aid rules at the highest political level in the EU, otherwise I don’t see how this can work,” said Mr Codogno.
I'll try and dig up the correct regulation but in a nutshell the EU put up barriers for state aid to banks/financial sector. According to some this regulation is pretty poorly written and/or defined.
In waiting so long to tackle the matter, Italy has found it hard to copy Spain, which in 2012 created a “bad bank”, largely to house those troubled property loans. The EU has changed the rules on state aid since then.
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“The Italian government has been severely constrained in its ability to emulate the Spanish example, due to high public debt and the new, more stringent EU state-aid rules, whereby NPL purchases by a public entity would trigger an onerous ‘bail-in’ of bank creditors,” said Federico Santi, an analyst at the risk consultancy Eurasia Group.
Those new EU rules require bondholders – and, crucially, savers – to take 8% of the liabilities before any government funds can be used to prop up banks in a bail-in, the aim of which is to prevent a bailout by taxpayers.
Forcing savers to take losses is unpalatable. Cyprus took that route three years ago, hitting savers with more than the €100,000 guaranteed by EU rules.
Just before Christmas, and before the EU rule change, Italy took steps to avoid depositors having to take losses in four lenders: Banca Etruria, Banca Marche, CariFerrara and CariChieti. But some bondholders were forced to take losses, sparking a furious reaction as the bonds issued by Italian banks are often bought by their retail customers. Renzi was accused of overseeing a “state suicide” when a retired man who lost €110,000 in Banca Etrutia bonds killed himself.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/28 21:27:27
For simplicity-sake I'll repeat my post in the other thread:
Well, all I can do is say that the EU-funded PhD's have mostly vanished like a fart in the wind, with only a few left behind. The projects cancelled or moved abroad.
The company funding me has decided to keep most of its operations and training in Spain for now and the number of research jobs in biotechnology has... well, you get the idea.
On top of this my mother, and myself have both been on the receiving end of anti-immigration abuse because we're from the Republic of Ireland. It's made more amusing as the oiks saying I've apparently 'stolen their jobs' have between them 3 GCSEs and an STD compared to my two MSc's, and BSc (Hons.). Somehow I think I may be contributing more to the country but who am I to argue, I'm just an immigrant - after all, who needs new medicines developed and tested anyway?
In essence, this Brexit has gone and done a real number on UK science which I don't see it recovering from any time soon. I know of people (physicists and other biotechnologists) who moved to France and Spain while the Brexit campaign was warming up as research companies were already getting nervous and expecting the worst. I wish I had done the same too but I have other commitments that hold me in the UK for now.
This said, I expect I'll leave (if Scotland fails to escape England in the next referendum) and follow the EU investment.
In short, the English voted to try and secure menial jobs for themselves at the cost of the jobs of the educated. It would appear the back-tracking of the Brexit politicians suggests this wasn't even achieved.
Edit: This said, I do have sympathy for the English who are in the same position as me with regards to the funding. They, unlike me, don't have EU passports and have no choice but to suffer through this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/28 23:06:22
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / Black Death 1500pts
Edit: This said, I do have sympathy for the English who are in the same position as me with regards to the funding. They, unlike me, don't have EU passports and have no choice but to suffer through this.
This is why I am getting an Irish passport as I have Irish grandparents on my fathers side.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
Edit: This said, I do have sympathy for the English who are in the same position as me with regards to the funding. They, unlike me, don't have EU passports and have no choice but to suffer through this.
This is why I am getting an Irish passport as I have Irish grandparents on my fathers side.
Yeah, I may do the same thing. Got Irish grandparents on my mother's side. Backup passports are always handy.
Wulfmar wrote: For simplicity-sake I'll repeat my post in the other thread:
In essence, this Brexit has gone and done a real number on UK science which I don't see it recovering from any time soon. I know of people (physicists and other biotechnologists) who moved to France and Spain while the Brexit campaign was warming up as research companies were already getting nervous and expecting the worst. I wish I had done the same too but I have other commitments that hold me in the UK for now.
This said, I expect I'll leave (if Scotland fails to escape England in the next referendum) and follow the EU investment.
In short, the English voted to try and secure menial jobs for themselves at the cost of the jobs of the educated. It would appear the back-tracking of the Brexit politicians suggests this wasn't even achieved.
Edit: This said, I do have sympathy for the English who are in the same position as me with regards to the funding. They, unlike me, don't have EU passports and have no choice but to suffer through this.
Right because us stoopid brits can't do science without eurocrats taking our money and telling us to pay scientists. Except no. Britain has been doing science with the best of them since forever. Isaac Newton.. Charles Darwin.. James Maxwell... plenty of others and none of them needed a eurocrat to tell them how do their job. Cambridge and Oxford earnt their prestigious names long before the EU was twinkling in Adolf's eye. The EU money that gets spent on British science is our money! When the euros are not getting it anymore then our PTB will spend it on science as they always have and the euros won't. British science will continue, with a temporary disruption no doubt, but it will continue.
Edit: This said, I do have sympathy for the English who are in the same position as me with regards to the funding. They, unlike me, don't have EU passports and have no choice but to suffer through this.
This is why I am getting an Irish passport as I have Irish grandparents on my fathers side.
Yeah, I may do the same thing. Got Irish grandparents on my mother's side. Backup passports are always handy.
I think I qualify for Portuguese citizenship thanks to Sephardi heritage on my grandfather's side. It helps that he's also a family historian, so detailed proof can be provided if need be.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/29 01:58:39
Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.
Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.
"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation
Wulfmar wrote: For simplicity-sake I'll repeat my post in the other thread:
In essence, this Brexit has gone and done a real number on UK science which I don't see it recovering from any time soon. I know of people (physicists and other biotechnologists) who moved to France and Spain while the Brexit campaign was warming up as research companies were already getting nervous and expecting the worst. I wish I had done the same too but I have other commitments that hold me in the UK for now.
This said, I expect I'll leave (if Scotland fails to escape England in the next referendum) and follow the EU investment.
In short, the English voted to try and secure menial jobs for themselves at the cost of the jobs of the educated. It would appear the back-tracking of the Brexit politicians suggests this wasn't even achieved.
Edit: This said, I do have sympathy for the English who are in the same position as me with regards to the funding. They, unlike me, don't have EU passports and have no choice but to suffer through this.
Right because us stoopid brits can't do science without eurocrats taking our money and telling us to pay scientists. Except no. Britain has been doing science with the best of them since forever. Isaac Newton.. Charles Darwin.. James Maxwell... plenty of others and none of them needed a eurocrat to tell them how do their job. Cambridge and Oxford earnt their prestigious names long before the EU was twinkling in Adolf's eye. The EU money that gets spent on British science is our money! When the euros are not getting it anymore then our PTB will spend it on science as they always have and the euros won't. British science will continue, with a temporary disruption no doubt, but it will continue.
It isn't just money, it is access to resources in the form of labs, personnel etc.
Our best work is done in international collaborations, especially as part of EU programmes. If we lose them, our science will suffer. That is why every single british scientific institution was against Brexit. Also, the fact that EU funding has become so important to UK science is precisely because our government is not funding it and there is no reason to assume that will change. Most voters don't see the direct effects of science funding so politicians don't put the money there.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/29 02:21:46
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
It isn't just money, it is access to resources in the form of labs, personnel etc.
Our best work is done in international collaborations, especially as part of EU programmes. If we lose them, our science will suffer. That is why every single british scientific institution was against Brexit. Also, the fact that EU funding has become so important to UK science is precisely because our government is not funding it and there is no reason to assume that will change. Most voters don't see the direct effects of science funding so politicians don't put the money there.
Those collaborations needn't stop just because we are no longer goose-stepping to der euro fuhrer's tune, if it does it won't be because of the brexit it will be because of petulant spankers in brussels. All you remainers are making the euro-crats sound worse than I thought they were. Highly educated people with institutional connections never struggle to get visas, if that will even be a thing for the future. If the euros close the door on us then we can close it on them and we can open it to the whole world too. How does Japan or the US get science done without the precious overlords in brussels? Honestly this is the worst, most insulting thing about remainers, you just seem to have the lowest opinion of anything british. We are literally just pond scum to you? Britain the land that literally created and spread to the far corners of the world, modernity itself.
Thousand Sons: 3850pts / 
Space Marines Deathwatch 5000pts / 
Dark Eldar Webway Corsairs 2000pts / 
Scrapheap Challenged Orks 1500pts / 
Black Death 1500pts
