Brexit Opinions - Post-Referendum Views

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**jreilly89**

As an American, I think it's a bad idea, not just from an economic stand point, but also half the posts I've seen from people who voted for it boiled down to "I didn't know what it was" or "I didn't they'd take us seriously".

Also, not to paint with a broad stroke, but I have family over in England. Based on their reaction and their beliefs, I think the Brexit was based on a lot of racism and xenophobia.

**Kilkrazy**

Baragash wrote:
Whirlwind wrote:
I have no knowledge on any other aspect of the EU legislation apart from generic information on how it works but right now we have 50m people that were assumed to be experts on it all. It is absolutely ridiculous to expect me or anyone else to vote on this because they simply don't know!

I do think the EU has done a poor job of marketing itself and helping people understand it over the last decade or so, I wouldn't place the blame solely on a poor Remain campaign.

It's that and the Remain campaign and to be completely frank, 30 years of lies from the Daily Mail, Telegraph and the Sun have not helped.

One effect of the campaign on me was that I had to look up information on the EU and so on and I was surprised at how much I didn't know and had misunderstood because of general press moaning about human rights and opaque bureaucracy and so on.

**reds8n**

.... The article 50 negotiation team is a bit of a surprise eh ?

.... TBF this could also be the new Shadow Cabinet in 20 minutes or so.

**Whirlwind**

Baragash wrote:
Whirlwind wrote:
I have no knowledge on any other aspect of the EU legislation apart from generic information on how it works but right now we have 50m people that were assumed to be experts on it all. It is absolutely ridiculous to expect me or anyone else to vote on this because they simply don't know!

I do think the EU has done a poor job of marketing itself and helping people understand it over the last decade or so, I wouldn't place the blame solely on a poor Remain campaign.

Yeah but it is meant to be the MEPs job to do this (not the president) as they are the ones voted for directly by the public. Of course the problem is that it was filled with UKIP members who had no interest in actually engaging with either the EU or any electorate that might take an interest (only those they could persuade to say the EU is "insert expletive here!"). So hence you have a problem where the public don't understand, a small minority vote in MEPS that don't engage who then come back and tell us it's all rubbish and have no interest in trying to improve it - and we wonder why more and more people consider it a flawed system. The EU is like a relationship, you have to work at it to get it to work and sustain it, but that's something fundamentally the UKIP MEPS opposed doing.

What I blame the government for doing it calling the Referendum in the first place - it was a political career stunt that massively backfired and is now going to have massive negative ramifications for decades to come.

**Lone Cat**

Anti- Polish xenophobic remarks, post BREXIT referrendum.

http://news.voicetv.co.th/world/382290.html?_utm_source=1-2-2

Aren't these cab drivers aware that the Poles exodus to Britain began during the rise of Prussia. in the days Frederick II rules. shouldn't they get used to the poles community in Britain that exists for some 200 years?

**BigWaaagh**

As I watch the global stock markets continue to shed the world's cumulative wealth, I heard an interesting statistic with caveat of course.
UK potential EU savings GBP8Bn. If UK bank meltdown continues, i.e. Barclays, RBS, etc. and there comes a need another bailout of some sort, let's say just half the 2008 level infusion, then that's approximately a cost of GBP80Bn. So net-net the result is a loss of GBP72Bn(80-8).
Ahhh, the price of uninformed, misinformed xenophobia.

**Skullhammer**

Agh!! the price of freedom to rule your self .... priceless

**Whirlwind**

Skullhammer wrote:
Agh!! the price of freedom to rule your self .... priceless

Well strictly you are correct. The Leave camp had no idea what it would cost to leave so literally you are correct.

But I'm intrigued what freedoms of rule do you think we were denied by being in the EU specifically?

**BigWaaagh**

Skullhammer wrote:
Agh!! the price of freedom to rule your self .... priceless

Thank you so much for so perfectly making my point.

**Skullhammer**

Just to give one example (so we dont rehash the closed thread) and to me a major one is the supremacy of law. Any compantancy that the eu claims an intrest in means that the eu court (not the court of human rights thats totaly diffrent) can overrule a nations laws. And at the start of the eu standadisation was ok then they moved to any trade even if the bisness never traded outside there own country then farming rules, fishing rules, vat rules. Its the creep that got me. And yes giving some rules to international bodies is good war crimes/climate change things that one country just cant do on its own.

My response was mostly a dig at your comment about xenophobia. Which on a lot of media is the new islamaphobia when ever this topic arises.

**loki old fart**

With all the bank shares falling, I hope they don't resort to bail ins.
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/Documents/quarterlybulletin/2015/q302.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/bail-in-powers-implementation-including-draft-secondary-legislation/bail-in-powers-implementation

**notprop**

Hang on, we're still part of the EU. Why aren't they shoring up the British Economy. Bloody EU!

**Selym**

notprop wrote:
Hang on, we're still part of the EU. Why aren't they shoring up the British Economy. Bloody EU!

Because it's the UK's duty to only give money to the EU, it must never receive anything back.

**Ustrello**

I mean it is nice when a dozen million xenopohbic brits push the economy closer to a recession. Then again I have sold off most of my stocks and patiently wait to buy them cheap again.

**Selym**

Ustrello wrote:
I mean it is nice when a dozen million xenopohbic brits push the economy closer to a recession. Then again I have sold off most of my stocks and patiently wait to buy them cheap again.

It's nice when a few times that number of xenophobic 'muricans join the Trump bandwagon of muslim-hating...

The world's always been incredibly racist. It's just that in the last few decades we've been unusually good at repressing it.

**Ustrello**

Selym wrote:
Ustrello wrote:
I mean it is nice when a dozen million xenopohbic brits push the economy closer to a recession. Then again I have sold off most of my stocks and patiently wait to buy them cheap again.
It's nice when a few times that number of xenophobic 'muricans join the Trump bandwagon of muslim-hating...

The world's always been incredibly racist. It's just that in the last few decades we've been unusually good at repressing it.

Population percentage wise if we go by the 2012 presidential election 9 percent of the population voted republican (so figuring for trump probably less than that in the 2016 because a lot of the moderate republicans dont like him), and 18 percent of brits voted for the leave. So numbers year we got you beat, percentage of population we are even.

**Mr. Burning**

Ustrello wrote:
I mean it is nice when a dozen million xenopohbic brits push the economy closer to a recession. Then again I have sold off most of my stocks and patiently wait to buy them cheap again.

Or dozens of millions of drones voted, banking on their own convoluted idiocy that Jeremy 'anti Eu' Corbyn. would somehow end up as prime minister on the 24th June and keep us in on a wave of free education, and unionised utility services.

Its their own damn 48% fault we are now in this mess.

**Silent Puffin?**

Selym wrote:
Because it's the UK's duty to only give money to the EU, it must never receive anything back.

£350 million a week !1!1eleven!1!

**jhe90**

Silent Puffin? wrote:
Selym wrote:
Because it's the UK's duty to only give money to the EU, it must never receive anything back.

£350 million a week !1!1eleven!1!

Billions of pounds off hard earned UK taxes.
Spend them here. We need them more than EU does.

**Silent Puffin?**

jhe90 wrote:
We need them more than EU does.

Especially now that the economy is begining to implode, sorry I mean 'stabilise'.

**A Town Called Malus**

jhe90 wrote:
Silent Puffin? wrote:
Selym wrote:
Because it's the UK's duty to only give money to the EU, it must never receive anything back.

£350 million a week !1!1eleven!1!

Billions of pounds off hard earned UK taxes.
Spend them here. We need them more than EU does.

You do realise how little that actually is in terms of the UK economy, right?

**Talizvar**

In another thread I had posted that the savings of staying within the EU and benefits of this collective far exceed the cost of the transfer payments the UK is seeing.

The main #1 argument is simply to have the ability to have unfettered policy change within the UK without external "interference".

I have done a fair bit of research but I am still unclear of the logistics / policies the EU made where the UK got to keep their currency and still be part of the "brotherhood".

I figured if they did not adopt the Euro, it would make exiting the EU a tiny bit less painful.

This situation reminds me of Quebec trying to separate from Canada and holding referendums: the need to have self determination seemed to outweigh the economic destruction they would face and vast privileges that would be taken away due to the exit. Probably the worst of this is the EU trying to balance the books after this and a bunch of "me too" moments with the other countries.

Were the external policies being pushed for things like immigration quotas that decisive and divisive?

**Selym**

Were immigration policies divisive? Hell yes. You had a few large camps:

>Belief that immigration is all bad (racist)
>Belief that unlimited immigration is the best
>EU migrants that felt that all talks about immigration policies would lead to racist persecution (what seems to have happened)
>Belief that while immigration can be good, the EU's way of handling it needed to be stopped (winning argument in the referendum)

**reds8n**

http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/liveblogs/2016-06-27/#dd10c3455b6200de6cb57b8c4eb4fd11

"The ratings agency Standard and Poor’s has lowered its rating of British government debt from AAA to AA following the referendum. That was the final AAA rating attached to UK government debt.

Standard and Poor’s forecast a “less predictable, stable, and effective policy framework in the UK” as one of the reasons as well as “a marked deterioration of external financing conditions in light of the U.K.’s extremely elevated level of gross external financing requirements.”

In other words, they are worried about the slide in the value of the pound given how much the UK relies on borrowing from abroad.

They also point towards wider constitutional issues created by the referendum in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The agency said:

The negative outlook reflects the risk to economic prospects, fiscal and external performance, and the role of sterling as a reserve currency, as well as risks to the constitutional and economic integrity of the U.K. if there is another referendum on Scottish independence."

still what's a few more billions in interest payments eh ?

**Da Boss**

Immigration was not seriously being pushed on anyone, there was free movement of people inside Europe. This had negative effects and positive effects.

The UK was not forced to take refugees and took a pretty small number of them.

I think the advantages of free movement are less obvious in the UK due to it's island nature. Imagine putting up borders and restrictions between Scotland, Wales and England and you begin to see why it's more popular on the continent.

**Prestor Jon**

reds8n wrote:
http://blogs.ft.com/westminster/liveblogs/2016-06-27/#dd10c3455b6200de6cb57b8c4eb4fd11

"The ratings agency Standard and Poor’s has lowered its rating of British government debt from AAA to AA following the referendum. That was the final AAA rating attached to UK government debt.

Standard and Poor’s forecast a “less predictable, stable, and effective policy framework in the UK” as one of the reasons as well as “a marked deterioration of external financing conditions in light of the U.K.’s extremely elevated level of gross external financing requirements.”

In other words, they are worried about the slide in the value of the pound given how much the UK relies on borrowing from abroad.

They also point towards wider constitutional issues created by the referendum in Scotland and Northern Ireland.

The agency said:

The negative outlook reflects the risk to economic prospects, fiscal and external performance, and the role of sterling as a reserve currency, as well as risks to the constitutional and economic integrity of the U.K. if there is another referendum on Scottish independence."

still what's a few more billions in interest payments eh ?

S&P has had the US rating at AA+ down from AAA since 2011 and it really hasn't had much of an impact on our economy. The UK still has one of the largest economies in the world and all that commerce will continue regardless of the credit rating.

**A Town Called Malus**

Prestor Jon wrote:

S&P has had the US rating at AA+ down from AAA since 2011 and it really hasn't had much of an impact on our economy. The UK still has one of the largest economies in the world and all that commerce will continue regardless of the credit rating.

Whilst that is true, the Conservatives massively criticised the previous Labour government when it was merely hinted that the UKs credit rating would be lowered, basically saying it would ruin us.

So to have this happen is quite ironic, I think.

**Mr. Burning**

Da Boss wrote:
Immigration was not seriously being pushed on anyone, there was free movement of people inside Europe. This had negative effects and positive effects.

The UK was not forced to take refugees and took a pretty small number of them.

I think the advantages of free movement are less obvious in the UK due to it's island nature. Imagine putting up borders and restrictions between Scotland, Wales and England and you begin to see why it's more popular on the continent.

I really think that 'multiculturalism' and its weaponised nature within UK politics has a heck of lot to do with our voters opinions on immigration, rather than the act immigration itself.

Almost 20 years of political dodgeball and point scoring makes for a confused electorate. From my own experiences so called liberals and leftists appear to be most fearful of having any discussion on immigration for fear of being called a bigot or a racist. And I do mean any discussion other than what the current super positive opinion should be.

**Da Boss**

There can be no more argument that the Tories are a safe pair of hands after this shambles.

**A Town Called Malus**

Da Boss wrote:
There can be no more argument that the Tories are a safe pair of hands after this shambles.

There wasn't an argument for that last time once you looked at actual figures. Sadly, all that matters is perception.

They'll just wait 10 years or so and then bluff that this was all Labours fault or the EUs fault.