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Razerous wrote:

Benlisted wrote:

Razerous wrote:
Can one replace both set of Monstrous scything talons for a Hive Tyrant with two sets of two brain leech worm devourers?

Because in the unit description, it lists two devourers with brain leech worms as a single item.

Just checking, sorry if this has come up before!

Yup - you replace a Pair of Scytals with 2x Brainleech Devourers (but do Slimer Deathspitters instead, for slightly more they're worth it!). You can do so twice for 4 total Devs/DSes if you choose.

Fair doos! I guess the issue is you loose out on any melee biomorphs (besides the 1A tail) and a hive tyrant is a beatstick in melee.. but will just be AP0 Str user?

Correct, without any melee weapons you attack at Str user and AP0.

I'm struck by just how much S8 and S9 shooting we have access to now.

3 Warriors with a venom cannon is around 90 points. A Prime is a bit over 100. Rounding up, 9 Warriors with 3 cannons at 300, x 3 squads, plus a Prime-27 Warrior bodies, 9 cannons, all hitting on 3's for less than 1000 points. Might not be tournament winning, but could be fun try out.

babelfish wrote:
I'm struck by just how much S8 and S9 shooting we have access to now.

3 Warriors with a venom cannon is around 90 points. A Prime is a bit over 100. Rounding up, 9 Warriors with 3 cannons at 300, x 3 squads, plus a Prime-27 Warrior bodies, 9 cannons, all hitting on 3's for less than 1000 points. Might not be tournament winning, but could be fun try out.

Shoot, you can build a Patrol and get a +1 Command point, HQ Prime, Warrior Brood+ Cannon, x3 Lots of Dakka, and Synapse.

Right now I am pondering a Spearhead: HQ Old One Eye, Carnifex; twin Scythes x2 Adrenal, x3 +1 CP

I'm thinking for carnifex the classic screamer-killer is a huge winner for us. 2x scytal, bone mace, bio plasma and adrenal glands is 103 points. That gets you 6 s6 ap-3 dam3 attacks in combat (4 base plus bonus attack from each set of talons... they are going to need to FAQ that wording) that reroll 1 to hits. They aren't the anti vehicle wrecking balls they once were. Now they are more for mulching enemy elite units like Primaris marines, banners, apothecary/painboy/techmarine type units. The bio plasma helps to soften targets a bit, but not much else. I'm not sure on bone mace or scythe tail, I just went for the budget option.

Go for the slightly more expensive tail option. It allows you to attack with all of your attacks instead of having to waste one on the bone mace, plus the thresher scythe is great vs big units

I second using Thresher Scythe. If you're fighting a unit like ork boyz with a lot of weak models, then I think the extra attack potential from the Thresher Scythe will be worthwhile. You can divide 1 attack to each set of Talons (giving you 4 attacks) and then use the other 2 attacks with the Thresher Scythe. Giving you a total of 4 + 2d3 attacks.

Funny thing I realized.

In 7th we payed 150 points for a dakkafex, which basically was 16.67 points per hit (9 hits).

Now the same build cost around 100 points for 6 hits, which means we still have around same amount of points per hit.

GodDamUser wrote:
I think biggest thing to think about with Tyranids and GSC

Is that unless you are going a Monster/vehicle list you are most likely going to be going 2nd.

A lot of armies will be going MSU. Guard are going to have a ton of drops.

 SeraphimXIX wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 D6Damager wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 rollawaythestone wrote:
The Frontline Gaming guys on their live Q&A insisted that the Tervigon must pay for new Termagants (including replenishing existing units).

Then they're wrong as the Datasheet expressly says otherwise. :-p

No. They are right as they were speaking in terms of matched play where you have to pay their points. It's in the matched play rules. If you play open or narrative then it doesn't matter.

Nah, I've read the rules too. The matched play rules say if a new unit is added, or if a unit that has been destroyed is replaced, you pay the points. Nowhere does it say that if you replenish a unit that has suffered casualties (a special feature of the Tervigon), you have to pay the points. It's an oversight, sure, maybe, maybe not, but you're wrong and the guy you're arguing against is right.

Your argument basically comes down to them saying units and not models. RAI "replace models that have been destroyed" obviously falls under the category of "replace units that have been destroyed". Did you unironically think that wasnt the case?

Not sure if this has been beaten to death but, Necrons says that you cannot replace models if the whole unit is dead. Wording wise that would make sense because it would in effect be placing a new unit on the table. I agree that Tervigons can replace at no extra cost.

xmbk wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
I think biggest thing to think about with Tyranids and GSC

Is that unless you are going a Monster/vehicle list you are most likely going to be going 2nd.

A lot of armies will be going MSU. Guard are going to have a ton of drops.

I wonder if a lot of armies will really be going MSU. Sure, it gets you extra command point re-rolls (like probably in the 12-15 range) and knowing the value of Fateweaver's re-rolls, I can't state enough that this is important.

However, my "monster mash" list with 6-7 MC still can easily get 7 command points (thank you lictors and Rippers ) and having the ability to choose to go second 100% of the time and go first 86% of the time, unless I'm against an even more big guy focused list, plus having decent first blood protection, I think is absolutely worth sacrificing 5-7 command points.

Would I feel that way if I had 2 command points and they had 9? No definitely not. But I think I have enough and the benefits outweigh the costs


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The other two reasons why MSU isn't super OP:

1) kill point missions (obviously)
2) you can shoot one thing and charge another. Previously, MSU was excellent because it wasted turns by only letting the opponent kill one unit with each of theirs. Now that it's more of a 2 for 1 special, I don't see MSU being quite as beneficial

 luke1705 wrote:

2) you can shoot one thing and charge another. Previously, MSU was excellent because it wasted turns by only letting the opponent kill one unit with each of theirs. Now that it's more of a 2 for 1 special, I don't see MSU being quite as beneficial

Also split fire. A 30 Termagant blob in 7th fired every shot into a single unit whether that enemy unit had 10 models or 1. Now I can shoot 5 at the unit of 1 guy and 25 at another. Larger units have becomes significantly more flexible.

One thing i'm tempted to try in the next few days will be be shooty 'Nids. I've got three Exocrines who never saw serious play (and certainly not all at once, I just loved the models), but they've been doing good work for me so far in 8th.

Carnifexes with quad-Deathspitters, Exocrines, etc... all seem like pretty value rich shooting that can be easily and cheaply screened with Gants.

I'm not sure it'll be top-tier by any stretch, but I just wanted an excuse to try it. :-p

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
One thing i'm tempted to try in the next few days will be be shooty 'Nids. I've got three Exocrines who never saw serious play (and certainly not all at once, I just loved the models), but they've been doing good work for me so far in 8th.

Carnifexes with quad-Deathspitters, Exocrines, etc... all seem like pretty value rich shooting that can be easily and cheaply screened with Gants.

I'm not sure it'll be top-tier by any stretch, but I just wanted an excuse to try it. :-p

I can say 1 blob of Termagants with 1 Tervigon is underwhelming. But get 2 Tervigons with 3 30 man blobs of gants and they become a nightmare. Stick that in front of a living artillery node (biovores and exocrine with Warriors to act as back field synapse and fire off their cannons) and I think a shooty Nid list would be down right vicious.

 Lance845 wrote:

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
One thing i'm tempted to try in the next few days will be be shooty 'Nids. I've got three Exocrines who never saw serious play (and certainly not all at once, I just loved the models), but they've been doing good work for me so far in 8th.

Carnifexes with quad-Deathspitters, Exocrines, etc... all seem like pretty value rich shooting that can be easily and cheaply screened with Gants.

I'm not sure it'll be top-tier by any stretch, but I just wanted an excuse to try it. :-p

I can say 1 blob of Termagants with 1 Tervigon is underwhelming. But get 2 Tervigons with 3 30 man blobs of gants and they become a nightmare. Stick that in front of a living artillery node (biovores and exocrine with Warriors to act as back field synapse and fire off their cannons) and I think a shooty Nid list would be down right vicious.

Oooh, tempting! I mean, happily retreating your wall 'o Gants from any combats they absorb, replenishing them, and letting your shooters continue to work those targets, does sound very fun.

Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

45 to 90

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

45 to 90

I'm looking at the leaked rules mate its 41

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

45 to 90

I'm looking at the leaked rules mate its 41

You're not adding the 4 points from flesh hooks and rending claws

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

45 to 90

I'm looking at the leaked rules mate its 41

You're not adding the 4 points from flesh hooks and rending claws

Gotcha OK cheers, what do you choose?

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:

Jaq Draco lives wrote:
Anyone got an idea of Lictor vs Deathleaper

41p to 90p but I haven't really weighed up if the extra expense is worth it

45 to 90

I'm looking at the leaked rules mate its 41

You're not adding the 4 points from flesh hooks and rending claws

Gotcha OK cheers, what do you choose?

Deathleaper is just perfect as an annoyance and tying up a shooting unit for a turn. His character "teleport homer" allows him to practically reach every unit in the enemy army.
Lictors are good as well but still need to do 9" on 2D6", albeit re-rolling the dice (one or both, your choice) and are even less resistant to shooting

Genestealer armies might be the strongest thing in the game now. Cheap, ridiculously fast, backed up by the swarmlord. Your army is turn 2 charge minimum, while the swarmlord give one unit a turn 1 charge. Multiple 20 man genestealer units will annihilate everything they hit with ease.

My new starter list I am painting up is 1k. Swarm lord 30 hormagants and a carnifex with adrenal/double scytal for melee hammer and a tervigon, 30 termagants (or two squads of 15) and a squad of Tyranid Warriors with a venom cannon and deathspitters for the backfield. I know it's not spamhammer but seems fun and very much in the fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Considering we will play 4x4 tables for 1k points as well

stratigo wrote:
Genestealer armies might be the strongest thing in the game now. Cheap, ridiculously fast, backed up by the swarmlord. Your army is turn 2 charge minimum, while the swarmlord give one unit a turn 1 charge. Multiple 20 man genestealer units will annihilate everything they hit with ease.

As much as I love jumping to conclusions, maybe we should get a few games under our belts before we say stuff like that. Having played a number of games with 8th ed stealers, I think you're right that they're strong. And I haven't even used a broodlord yet. But remember that in an edition where literally any unit can just retreat from combat and expose you to shooting, that's kind of a big deal. Turn 2 charges are rather likely for the stealers (or even earlier if they use their buddy Mr. Trygon to catch a ride in) but turn 3 could happen quite a bit - certainly in hammer and anvil.

That being said, they are good. Very good

 luke1705 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Genestealer armies might be the strongest thing in the game now. Cheap, ridiculously fast, backed up by the swarmlord. Your army is turn 2 charge minimum, while the swarmlord give one unit a turn 1 charge. Multiple 20 man genestealer units will annihilate everything they hit with ease.

As much as I love jumping to conclusions, maybe we should get a few games under our belts before we say stuff like that. Having played a number of games with 8th ed stealers, I think you're right that they're strong. And I haven't even used a broodlord yet. But remember that in an edition where literally any unit can just retreat from combat and expose you to shooting, that's kind of a big deal. Turn 2 charges are rather likely for the stealers (or even earlier if they use their buddy Mr. Trygon to catch a ride in) but turn 3 could happen quite a bit - certainly in hammer and anvil.

That being said, they are good. Very good

Retreating isn't a problem with Genestealers. Any unit they hit is already dead .

I've played a few games, and stealers are just really really good. I can imagine a few armies that would do well against them (Man spam guard could speed bump and then shoot them a lot pretty well), but for certain armies I'm having trouble thinking what could be done. Space marines have costlier models, and not many SM players are rocking like 30 or 40 scouts just to run enough bubble wrap.

stratigo wrote:

 luke1705 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Genestealer armies might be the strongest thing in the game now. Cheap, ridiculously fast, backed up by the swarmlord. Your army is turn 2 charge minimum, while the swarmlord give one unit a turn 1 charge. Multiple 20 man genestealer units will annihilate everything they hit with ease.

As much as I love jumping to conclusions, maybe we should get a few games under our belts before we say stuff like that. Having played a number of games with 8th ed stealers, I think you're right that they're strong. And I haven't even used a broodlord yet. But remember that in an edition where literally any unit can just retreat from combat and expose you to shooting, that's kind of a big deal. Turn 2 charges are rather likely for the stealers (or even earlier if they use their buddy Mr. Trygon to catch a ride in) but turn 3 could happen quite a bit - certainly in hammer and anvil.

That being said, they are good. Very good

Retreating isn't a problem with Genestealers. Any unit they hit is already dead .

I've played a few games, and stealers are just really really good. I can imagine a few armies that would do well against them (Man spam guard could speed bump and then shoot them a lot pretty well), but for certain armies I'm having trouble thinking what could be done. Space marines have costlier models, and not many SM players are rocking like 30 or 40 scouts just to run enough bubble wrap.

Genestealers are really good. Give them 'Catalyst' and they're hard to stop even for guard. Lasguns need a 4+ to hit, 5+ to wound, genestealers get 5+ inv save, 5+ feel no pain. I like to combine them with hormagaunts so that the Guard player got to focus at shooting genestealers and get assaulted with hormagaunts that use a 6 inch pile in/consolidate followed by a few MC's.

So I'm returning to 40k for 8th and new to the thread, but has anyone mentioned monstrous rending claws on a hive tyrant? It seems like the best melee option by far considering it's free and has the rending/toxin synergy going on with 6s to wound. Coming from AoS, Biovores and Spore mines seem awesome because of reliable mortal wounds (even if a small number), messing with deep strike deployments when you miss (the enemy won't be able to shoot the mines until after their movement phase) and because they are an extremely cheap way to fill in a brigade detachment for +9 command; just 162 points to fill the 3 fast attack and 3 heavy support slots required.

Also count me in among those who think Genestealer/Hormagaunt combo is very powerful. Though the cult genestealers seem pretty bad; a hive fleet 'stealer is 16 points with toxin sacs while a purestrain is 18 without and I find cult ambush to be resoundingly meh with them (unless you get a 6).

xmbk wrote:

GodDamUser wrote:
I think biggest thing to think about with Tyranids and GSC

Is that unless you are going a Monster/vehicle list you are most likely going to be going 2nd.

A lot of armies will be going MSU. Guard are going to have a ton of drops.

Actually disagree, my list only has 8 drops. Not the lowest but there is a good chance I will get to go first.


My biggest take-away from having played two games against an IG tank list (1 baneblade & 5 Russes) & a Tau Crisis Suit list, is that Tyranid's advantage is from being able to have multiple attack vectors.

Mix of Cult Ambush, Onslaught , Hive Commander, Trygon/Tyrannocyte delivery, flying mc turn 1-2 assault, coupled with superb artillery support. I did not find myself overly dependent on any of the above, but it was the mix and flexibility of the threat vectors that gave me a multiplying advantage during the game. .


tldr, love Tyranids even harder now, everything does something.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So I'm returning to 40k for 8th and new to the thread, but has anyone mentioned monstrous rending claws on a hive tyrant? It seems like the best melee option by far considering it's free and has the rending/toxin synergy going on with 6s to wound. Coming from AoS, Biovores and Spore mines seem awesome because of reliable mortal wounds (even if a small number), messing with deep strike deployments when you miss (the enemy won't be able to shoot the mines until after their movement phase) and because they are an extremely cheap way to fill in a brigade detachment for +9 command; just 162 points to fill the 3 fast attack and 3 heavy support slots required.

Also count me in among those who think Genestealer/Hormagaunt combo is very powerful. Though the cult genestealers seem pretty bad; a hive fleet 'stealer is 16 points with toxin sacs while a purestrain is 18 without and I find cult ambush to be resoundingly meh with them (unless you get a 6).

I would wait for a FAQ confirming that the Rending claw on HT for free is not a misprint. Weapons at 0 points are either base troop weapons (fleshborers, boltguns and such) or strong weapons that are available to a single model and for that they are already included in the cost of that mode (like all the weapons of the haruspex).
Since in 7th the only model with those claws was the broodlord, i think there is a misprint in the monstrous bio weapon list. Rending claws shouldn't be there.

Spoletta wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So I'm returning to 40k for 8th and new to the thread, but has anyone mentioned monstrous rending claws on a hive tyrant? It seems like the best melee option by far considering it's free and has the rending/toxin synergy going on with 6s to wound. Coming from AoS, Biovores and Spore mines seem awesome because of reliable mortal wounds (even if a small number), messing with deep strike deployments when you miss (the enemy won't be able to shoot the mines until after their movement phase) and because they are an extremely cheap way to fill in a brigade detachment for +9 command; just 162 points to fill the 3 fast attack and 3 heavy support slots required.

Also count me in among those who think Genestealer/Hormagaunt combo is very powerful. Though the cult genestealers seem pretty bad; a hive fleet 'stealer is 16 points with toxin sacs while a purestrain is 18 without and I find cult ambush to be resoundingly meh with them (unless you get a 6).

I would wait for a FAQ confirming that the Rending claw on HT for free is not a misprint. Weapons at 0 points are either base troop weapons (fleshborers, boltguns and such) or strong weapons that are available to a single model and for that they are already included in the cost of that mode (like all the weapons of the haruspex).
Since in 7th the only model with those claws was the broodlord, i think there is a misprint in the monstrous bio weapon list. Rending claws shouldn't be there.

It definitely seems like an oversight, but until they FAQ it to say otherwise...

Maybe already addressed:

Also weird that Tyrant guard got a minimum of 3(-6) models in their stats but in the point-stats the can have only 1-3. Also don't no how to deploy the deathleaper if the character is completely blocked within 6 inch. Gw -> FAQ please...