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2017/06/28 00:47:16
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
Things that catched my eye from playing my first match of the 8th edition with a foot slogger list (Grey Hunters with WGT leader, 3x TWC with lots of equipment, TWC Lord, Terminator Njal, Vindicare, Long Fangs) against and Eldar elite army and from reading the index and lots of brainstorming:
- Foot slogging Grey Hunters with a Terminator leader are trash, 5" of movement gets you nowhere and people can easily take your squads apart as you will get little cover bonuses now that you need ALL the models in the unit in a terrain piece to get them, put them in a Rhino or at least leave off the Terminator, just not worth it if neither the squad nor the terminator can't take a heavy weapon.
- A power armour wolf guard pack leader costs as much as a regular model in a unit, while having another attack and still counting towards 'one special weapon per 5 models in the unit' limits. While they themselves give you another point of leadership, abovementioned extra attack as well as access to another special weapon (combi) or a super cheap and very killy storm bolter, so there is no reason to not take one in any pack that can take them.
- There is little reason to take Njal in his Terminator armour. His Power-Armour version is 29 points cheaper and already has a 2+ save and a 5+ inv save. 29 points just for a 4+ inv and one wound at the price of nerfed movement is steep, only take it if you want to deep-strike him, you can e.g. get two SS on TWC for the point difference. PA Njal is only 133 points too, so there is no reason to ever take a standard Rune Priest if you have the extra points, Njal does the job so much better, particularly psychic defense.
- Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves are beat sticks... but Wolf Guard Battle Leaders are much more point efficient while being almost as good. There is especially little reason to take a Lord if you will take a Storm Shield anyway. You pay 31 points extra over the WGBL version and the only things you gain is one wound (7 instead of 6), a 4+ inv save that's wasted anyway if you take a SS and BS 2+ which doesn't matter either (you want that SS after all, right?), and +1 Leadership which basically doesn't matter for characters that don't have a morale buff bubble. You don't even get additional attacks. Re-rolling to-wound rolls of 1 is not quite but almost as good as re-rolling 1s to hit.
Paying 122 instead of 153 points on your melee beat stick goes a long way to free up more points for other things in your list and getting more bodies on the table (which is always a problem if you run TWC + TW Characters).
- Long Fangs with plasma cannons are much better than missile launchers statistically against MEQ/TEQ (and most of our army already covers killing hordes) and monsters/vehicles if you overcharge against the latter, which is very save to do thanks to your re-roll 1s ability. And you pay 4 points less. I definitely recommend stacking up on Lascannons, Plasma cannons and Heavy Bolters (would take 1-2 per squad as extra ablative wounds). Missile Launchers are just too expensive for the jack of all trades role when horde killing is already covered by almost all of the units we consider must-haves (e.g. TWC, Grey Hunters, etc.), while we seriously lack ranged tank hunting ability if we don't take Predators. I'd always take a Wolf Guard Pack leader as ablative wound and give him a super cheap 2 pt. stormbolter so he can contribute. Terminator WG are also an option, though I'd keep them cheap and use them to soak small-arms wounds. Build examples given below
- Storm Bolters on Wolf Guard are amazing, especially for pack leaders. They are only 2 points while giving you the firepower of two Grey Hunters. A serious consideration over the often ten times as expensive combi weapons. A Wolf Guard pack leader in a Wolf Scout unit armed with a SB is only 13 points. If you aren't taking terminator assault builds, combi weapons or give them Terminator Heavy Weapons then I'd always give every single Wolf Guard a SB if points allow.
- Spamming Stormshields and special melee weapons on TWC should be reconsidered IMO. Remember that mortal wounds COMPLETELY ignore them, and there is quite a bunch of units that dish them out. Even one smite will do a serious number on a TWC unit and you will regret stacking all the pricy equipment on them in that case, especially when a SS costs 15 points (3 of them gets you another TWC rider :/!) . Particularly Eldar and Grey Knights can spam smite without remorse (the latter with almost every single unit, even if only dealing one mortal wound with most of them). In my first 8th Edition game against eldar they just melted thanks to being mortal wound spammed, despite having 3 SSs.
Also every TWC model besides the pack leader only has two attacks that benefit from special weapons, and with a S4 base stat. As a result I'd keep them as cheap and expandable as possible, to serve as an efficient shield for the Thunderwolf Lord/WGBL they shield and who deals the actual damage. So only 1-2 Stormshields max on a unit of four or five and only one cheaper special melee weapon (e.g. a frost blade or power axe) on the pack leader who has three attacks to actually benefit from it. 45 for a thunderwolf isn't that cheap to begin with and the chainsword actually gives them an extra attack to boot. I'd still keep bolt pistols over other ranged weapons as you WILL want to advance/run to get closer and when you actually get to use them they are an extra, out of sequence attack in melee.
- Land Raider Crusaders are amazing, while Land Raider Redeemers are massively overpriced and have LESS firepower. Now I regret not magnetizing that Redeemer I built 8 years ago.
- Arjac as mentioned before is amazing for his points and has massive synergy with cheap, teleporting Terminator units. Re-roll 1s to wound AND an extra attack to all of them if within 6". And rather unkillable. For only 140 points.
- I wouldn't go overboard with combi weapons, they are pricy and especially combi-meltas are not as good as they might look on paper (you need to deep strike 9" away from any enemy model, and you need to get within 6" to benefit from them), while SBs are extremely cheap for what they offer...
- ... Though as far as Wolf Guard Terminators are considered, 50/point Termies with combi-plasma and a power sword, as well as 37 points for a SB+Power sword (and only another point for power axes, which we got plenty of thanks to Grey Hunter sprues with all their two handed power axes!) are the absolute highlights though, even without overcharging the plasma.
- Single wolf claws seem nice but look rather weak compared to 1 point more expensive frost axes and particularly cheaper frost blades.
---
Example Long Fang loadouts that are only slightly more expansive than a 4x Lascannon Predator but much cheaper to buy moneywise and have more damage output, while having several ablative wounds would e.g. be
Long Fangs [10 PL, 205pts]
1x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
3x Long Fang w/Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/ Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter
or
2x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
2x Long Fang w/ Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter
Hope I managed to contribute something worthwhile with this wall of text .
I think you did good.
Storm Bolters are beyond amazing in this edition, they give us firepower that makes Tau and Imperial Guard re-think their purpose in life.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2017/06/28 02:04:33
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
Things that catched my eye from playing my first match of the 8th edition with a foot slogger list (Grey Hunters with WGT leader, 3x TWC with lots of equipment, TWC Lord, Terminator Njal, Vindicare, Long Fangs) against and Eldar elite army and from reading the index and lots of brainstorming:
- Foot slogging Grey Hunters with a Terminator leader are trash, 5" of movement gets you nowhere and people can easily take your squads apart as you will get little cover bonuses now that you need ALL the models in the unit in a terrain piece to get them, put them in a Rhino or at least leave off the Terminator, just not worth it if neither the squad nor the terminator can't take a heavy weapon.
- A power armour wolf guard pack leader costs as much as a regular model in a unit, while having another attack and still counting towards 'one special weapon per 5 models in the unit' limits. While they themselves give you another point of leadership, abovementioned extra attack as well as access to another special weapon (combi) or a super cheap and very killy storm bolter, so there is no reason to not take one in any pack that can take them.
- There is little reason to take Njal in his Terminator armour. His Power-Armour version is 29 points cheaper and already has a 2+ save and a 5+ inv save. 29 points just for a 4+ inv and one wound at the price of nerfed movement is steep, only take it if you want to deep-strike him, you can e.g. get two SS on TWC for the point difference. PA Njal is only 133 points too, so there is no reason to ever take a standard Rune Priest if you have the extra points, Njal does the job so much better, particularly psychic defense.
- Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves are beat sticks... but Wolf Guard Battle Leaders are much more point efficient while being almost as good. There is especially little reason to take a Lord if you will take a Storm Shield anyway. You pay 31 points extra over the WGBL version and the only things you gain is one wound (7 instead of 6), a 4+ inv save that's wasted anyway if you take a SS and BS 2+ which doesn't matter either (you want that SS after all, right?), and +1 Leadership which basically doesn't matter for characters that don't have a morale buff bubble. You don't even get additional attacks. Re-rolling to-wound rolls of 1 is not quite but almost as good as re-rolling 1s to hit.
Paying 122 instead of 153 points on your melee beat stick goes a long way to free up more points for other things in your list and getting more bodies on the table (which is always a problem if you run TWC + TW Characters).
- Long Fangs with plasma cannons are much better than missile launchers statistically against MEQ/TEQ (and most of our army already covers killing hordes) and monsters/vehicles if you overcharge against the latter, which is very save to do thanks to your re-roll 1s ability. And you pay 4 points less. I definitely recommend stacking up on Lascannons, Plasma cannons and Heavy Bolters (would take 1-2 per squad as extra ablative wounds). Missile Launchers are just too expensive for the jack of all trades role when horde killing is already covered by almost all of the units we consider must-haves (e.g. TWC, Grey Hunters, etc.), while we seriously lack ranged tank hunting ability if we don't take Predators. I'd always take a Wolf Guard Pack leader as ablative wound and give him a super cheap 2 pt. stormbolter so he can contribute. Terminator WG are also an option, though I'd keep them cheap and use them to soak small-arms wounds. Build examples given below
- Storm Bolters on Wolf Guard are amazing, especially for pack leaders. They are only 2 points while giving you the firepower of two Grey Hunters. A serious consideration over the often ten times as expensive combi weapons. A Wolf Guard pack leader in a Wolf Scout unit armed with a SB is only 13 points. If you aren't taking terminator assault builds, combi weapons or give them Terminator Heavy Weapons then I'd always give every single Wolf Guard a SB if points allow.
- Spamming Stormshields and special melee weapons on TWC should be reconsidered IMO. Remember that mortal wounds COMPLETELY ignore them, and there is quite a bunch of units that dish them out. Even one smite will do a serious number on a TWC unit and you will regret stacking all the pricy equipment on them in that case, especially when a SS costs 15 points (3 of them gets you another TWC rider :/!) . Particularly Eldar and Grey Knights can spam smite without remorse (the latter with almost every single unit, even if only dealing one mortal wound with most of them). In my first 8th Edition game against eldar they just melted thanks to being mortal wound spammed, despite having 3 SSs.
Also every TWC model besides the pack leader only has two attacks that benefit from special weapons, and with a S4 base stat. As a result I'd keep them as cheap and expandable as possible, to serve as an efficient shield for the Thunderwolf Lord/WGBL they shield and who deals the actual damage. So only 1-2 Stormshields max on a unit of four or five and only one cheaper special melee weapon (e.g. a frost blade or power axe) on the pack leader who has three attacks to actually benefit from it. 45 for a thunderwolf isn't that cheap to begin with and the chainsword actually gives them an extra attack to boot. I'd still keep bolt pistols over other ranged weapons as you WILL want to advance/run to get closer and when you actually get to use them they are an extra, out of sequence attack in melee.
- Land Raider Crusaders are amazing, while Land Raider Redeemers are massively overpriced and have LESS firepower. Now I regret not magnetizing that Redeemer I built 8 years ago.
- Arjac as mentioned before is amazing for his points and has massive synergy with cheap, teleporting Terminator units. Re-roll 1s to wound AND an extra attack to all of them if within 6". And rather unkillable. For only 140 points.
- I wouldn't go overboard with combi weapons, they are pricy and especially combi-meltas are not as good as they might look on paper (you need to deep strike 9" away from any enemy model, and you need to get within 6" to benefit from them), while SBs are extremely cheap for what they offer...
- ... Though as far as Wolf Guard Terminators are considered, 50/point Termies with combi-plasma and a power sword, as well as 37 points for a SB+Power sword (and only another point for power axes, which we got plenty of thanks to Grey Hunter sprues with all their two handed power axes!) are the absolute highlights though, even without overcharging the plasma.
- Single wolf claws seem nice but look rather weak compared to 1 point more expensive frost axes and particularly cheaper frost blades.
---
Example Long Fang loadouts that are only slightly more expansive than a 4x Lascannon Predator but much cheaper to buy moneywise and have more damage output, while having several ablative wounds would e.g. be
Long Fangs [10 PL, 205pts]
1x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
3x Long Fang w/Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/ Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter
or
2x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
2x Long Fang w/ Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter
Hope I managed to contribute something worthwhile with this wall of text .
I think you did good.
Storm Bolters are beyond amazing in this edition, they give us firepower that makes Tau and Imperial Guard re-think their purpose in life.
Im currently wondering the best way to utilize them. I keep thinking wolfguard bikers with storm bolters and shields are deadly. 41 points a head, 8 shots each at 12 inches and the move to get there. If they get charged they still have thier chain swords so they are still 3 attacks each.
2017/06/28 03:33:52
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
How do people feel about Swiftclaws in 8th? I recently purchased some bike models from the used bin at my FLGS. The bikes themselves are built already, but not the riders. I was debating using them as Swiftclaws, making one of them a Wolf Guard Bike Leader to bring a frost weapon (the squad was going to be tooled for melee). Are they any good?
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
2017/06/28 03:35:20
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
Things that catched my eye from playing my first match of the 8th edition with a foot slogger list (Grey Hunters with WGT leader, 3x TWC with lots of equipment, TWC Lord, Terminator Njal, Vindicare, Long Fangs) against and Eldar elite army and from reading the index and lots of brainstorming:
- Foot slogging Grey Hunters with a Terminator leader are trash, 5" of movement gets you nowhere and people can easily take your squads apart as you will get little cover bonuses now that you need ALL the models in the unit in a terrain piece to get them, put them in a Rhino or at least leave off the Terminator, just not worth it if neither the squad nor the terminator can't take a heavy weapon.
- A power armour wolf guard pack leader costs as much as a regular model in a unit, while having another attack and still counting towards 'one special weapon per 5 models in the unit' limits. While they themselves give you another point of leadership, abovementioned extra attack as well as access to another special weapon (combi) or a super cheap and very killy storm bolter, so there is no reason to not take one in any pack that can take them.
- There is little reason to take Njal in his Terminator armour. His Power-Armour version is 29 points cheaper and already has a 2+ save and a 5+ inv save. 29 points just for a 4+ inv and one wound at the price of nerfed movement is steep, only take it if you want to deep-strike him, you can e.g. get two SS on TWC for the point difference. PA Njal is only 133 points too, so there is no reason to ever take a standard Rune Priest if you have the extra points, Njal does the job so much better, particularly psychic defense.
- Wolf Lords on Thunderwolves are beat sticks... but Wolf Guard Battle Leaders are much more point efficient while being almost as good. There is especially little reason to take a Lord if you will take a Storm Shield anyway. You pay 31 points extra over the WGBL version and the only things you gain is one wound (7 instead of 6), a 4+ inv save that's wasted anyway if you take a SS and BS 2+ which doesn't matter either (you want that SS after all, right?), and +1 Leadership which basically doesn't matter for characters that don't have a morale buff bubble. You don't even get additional attacks. Re-rolling to-wound rolls of 1 is not quite but almost as good as re-rolling 1s to hit.
Paying 122 instead of 153 points on your melee beat stick goes a long way to free up more points for other things in your list and getting more bodies on the table (which is always a problem if you run TWC + TW Characters).
- Long Fangs with plasma cannons are much better than missile launchers statistically against MEQ/TEQ (and most of our army already covers killing hordes) and monsters/vehicles if you overcharge against the latter, which is very save to do thanks to your re-roll 1s ability. And you pay 4 points less. I definitely recommend stacking up on Lascannons, Plasma cannons and Heavy Bolters (would take 1-2 per squad as extra ablative wounds). Missile Launchers are just too expensive for the jack of all trades role when horde killing is already covered by almost all of the units we consider must-haves (e.g. TWC, Grey Hunters, etc.), while we seriously lack ranged tank hunting ability if we don't take Predators. I'd always take a Wolf Guard Pack leader as ablative wound and give him a super cheap 2 pt. stormbolter so he can contribute. Terminator WG are also an option, though I'd keep them cheap and use them to soak small-arms wounds. Build examples given below
- Storm Bolters on Wolf Guard are amazing, especially for pack leaders. They are only 2 points while giving you the firepower of two Grey Hunters. A serious consideration over the often ten times as expensive combi weapons. A Wolf Guard pack leader in a Wolf Scout unit armed with a SB is only 13 points. If you aren't taking terminator assault builds, combi weapons or give them Terminator Heavy Weapons then I'd always give every single Wolf Guard a SB if points allow.
- Spamming Stormshields and special melee weapons on TWC should be reconsidered IMO. Remember that mortal wounds COMPLETELY ignore them, and there is quite a bunch of units that dish them out. Even one smite will do a serious number on a TWC unit and you will regret stacking all the pricy equipment on them in that case, especially when a SS costs 15 points (3 of them gets you another TWC rider :/!) . Particularly Eldar and Grey Knights can spam smite without remorse (the latter with almost every single unit, even if only dealing one mortal wound with most of them). In my first 8th Edition game against eldar they just melted thanks to being mortal wound spammed, despite having 3 SSs.
Also every TWC model besides the pack leader only has two attacks that benefit from special weapons, and with a S4 base stat. As a result I'd keep them as cheap and expandable as possible, to serve as an efficient shield for the Thunderwolf Lord/WGBL they shield and who deals the actual damage. So only 1-2 Stormshields max on a unit of four or five and only one cheaper special melee weapon (e.g. a frost blade or power axe) on the pack leader who has three attacks to actually benefit from it. 45 for a thunderwolf isn't that cheap to begin with and the chainsword actually gives them an extra attack to boot. I'd still keep bolt pistols over other ranged weapons as you WILL want to advance/run to get closer and when you actually get to use them they are an extra, out of sequence attack in melee.
- Land Raider Crusaders are amazing, while Land Raider Redeemers are massively overpriced and have LESS firepower. Now I regret not magnetizing that Redeemer I built 8 years ago.
- Arjac as mentioned before is amazing for his points and has massive synergy with cheap, teleporting Terminator units. Re-roll 1s to wound AND an extra attack to all of them if within 6". And rather unkillable. For only 140 points.
- I wouldn't go overboard with combi weapons, they are pricy and especially combi-meltas are not as good as they might look on paper (you need to deep strike 9" away from any enemy model, and you need to get within 6" to benefit from them), while SBs are extremely cheap for what they offer...
- ... Though as far as Wolf Guard Terminators are considered, 50/point Termies with combi-plasma and a power sword, as well as 37 points for a SB+Power sword (and only another point for power axes, which we got plenty of thanks to Grey Hunter sprues with all their two handed power axes!) are the absolute highlights though, even without overcharging the plasma.
- Single wolf claws seem nice but look rather weak compared to 1 point more expensive frost axes and particularly cheaper frost blades.
---
Example Long Fang loadouts that are only slightly more expansive than a 4x Lascannon Predator but much cheaper to buy moneywise and have more damage output, while having several ablative wounds would e.g. be
Long Fangs [10 PL, 205pts]
1x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
3x Long Fang w/Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/ Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter
or
2x Long Fang w/ Lascannon
2x Long Fang w/ Plasma cannon
1x Long Fang w/Heavy bolter
Long Fang Pack Leader w/ Boltgun and Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
Wolf Guard Pack Leader w/ Chainsword, Storm bolter
Hope I managed to contribute something worthwhile with this wall of text .
I think you did good.
Storm Bolters are beyond amazing in this edition, they give us firepower that makes Tau and Imperial Guard re-think their purpose in life.
Im currently wondering the best way to utilize them. I keep thinking wolfguard bikers with storm bolters and shields are deadly. 41 points a head, 8 shots each at 12 inches and the move to get there. If they get charged they still have thier chain swords so they are still 3 attacks each.
Depends on the opponent - WGBikers are amazing all-rounders, they throw down enormous amounts of dice.
They aren't heavy hitters though - I'd be hunting Infantry and hoards early game then using them to throw more dice at MCs and Vehicles in the late game.
I think Razerbacks with Assault Cannons and Storm Bolters will be my dedicated big game hunters.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2017/06/28 06:26:05
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
One out of two, the other nabbed the wooden spoon.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
ZergSmasher wrote: How do people feel about Swiftclaws in 8th? I recently purchased some bike models from the used bin at my FLGS. The bikes themselves are built already, but not the riders. I was debating using them as Swiftclaws, making one of them a Wolf Guard Bike Leader to bring a frost weapon (the squad was going to be tooled for melee). Are they any good?
Swiftclaws aren't bad there are just better things in the same roll. If you're looking to save a hundred points I'd grab some Swiftclaws.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/28 08:47:03
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2017/06/28 08:56:57
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
ZergSmasher wrote: How do people feel about Swiftclaws in 8th? I recently purchased some bike models from the used bin at my FLGS. The bikes themselves are built already, but not the riders. I was debating using them as Swiftclaws, making one of them a Wolf Guard Bike Leader to bring a frost weapon (the squad was going to be tooled for melee). Are they any good?
Swiftclaws are OK but I would rather build them as Wolf Guard bikers. Either build them with storm bolters for massed horde-clearance or tool them up with frost weapons and a few TH/SS. Add a Wolf Priest on bike to patch them up and lead them and voila!
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
Stormbolters are amazing, I agree, they're way undercosted. But how can you spam them?
Other than bikers, which I'm not going to buy.
I'd like to give those stormbolters to all pack leaders but they are 3-6 at most. And a wolf guard unit on foot (or embarked in some vehicles) isn't cheap, having more grey hunters is better IMHO.
I also agree with ragnar about thunderwolves but I also think that a single thunder hammer in each squad should find a room. It's quite cheap and extreme deadly.
Blackie wrote: And a wolf guard unit on foot (or embarked in some vehicles) isn't cheap, having more grey hunters is better IMHO.
For 2 points more than a Grey Hunter you can get a PAWG who has an extra attack and an extra point of Ld (meaning that you no longer have to worry about keeping a Pack Leader alive).
But more importantly you can now customise the squad however you want. A squad of plasma gunners to accompany Bjorn or a WL for rerolling 1s. some frost weapons and TH/SS in a Rhino or Land Raider hit hard. Spam storm bolters for dakka.
I agree that if you are just running bolter, BP and chainsword then the advantage is modest (although 2 points for +1A is not bad) but the real advantage is the opportunity to tool up a squad for whatever role you want. And with access to the Vanguard Detachment, we no longer have to run 3+ Troops unless you specifically want those extra CPs.
I stand between the darkness and the light. Between the candle and the star.
Blackie wrote: Stormbolters are amazing, I agree, they're way undercosted. But how can you spam them?
Other than bikers, which I'm not going to buy.
I'd like to give those stormbolters to all pack leaders but they are 3-6 at most. And a wolf guard unit on foot (or embarked in some vehicles) isn't cheap, having more grey hunters is better IMHO.
I also agree with ragnar about thunderwolves but I also think that a single thunder hammer in each squad should find a room. It's quite cheap and extreme deadly.
Wolf Guard Terminators?
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
Wolf Guard Termies aren't a unit that you can cheaply spam, though we have better reason to have them equipped with storm bolsters now that they doubled in firepower
The list is cut off on Best Coast Pairing but it looks like he used a battalion and vanguard detachment with blood claws, a wolf priest, rune priest, two las/missile dreads, storm wolf, lukas, wulfen, and a Land Raider Crusader. The other wolf player didn't have a list posted.
I think putting extra storm bolters on razorbacks, HQs, Rhinos, terminators, and possibly bikes is the way to go.
I'm not 100% that PAWG are worth putting too many points into because of how easily they die, even with storm shields 1 wound means losing a lot of points per failed save. Once they get out of a transport they need to blow up enough things to be worth it, or tie up enough enemy units in close combat to limit the shooting back next turn. And my issue with them is they don't assault much better than the same points worth of blood claws.
Never been much of a fan of bikers, but after reading more recent posts here I'm convinced I need two 5man WG bike squads with storm bolters and storm shields. The amount of dakka is just insane. And they can easily be tooled with a power weapon or two so they're no slouches in CC either.
biggie_reg wrote: Wolf Guard Termies aren't a unit that you can cheaply spam, though we have better reason to have them equipped with storm bolsters now that they doubled in firepower
Not truly cheaply but at 185 points for five with Storm Bolters and Power Swords they aren't bad value either and they're stupidly flexible - like Wolf Guard with Jump-Packs and Skyclaws they can be dropped in Rapid-Fire range, unlike Jump-Guard and Skyclaws they are likely to survive EWO triggers to hammer their twenty shots into the enemy, admittedly, once you have dropped them they are limited to 5" movement but they're still not Immobile, plant them between units you want to shoot and objectives that will force your opponent to divert forces to defend then march over, sit on them and bunker down. Ten ap-3 melee attacks aren't to be laughed off either, anyyhing that wants to dislodge them will have to have the bollocks to pass through Storm Bolters and Power Swords to contest that objective, easing pressure off your lines.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2017/06/29 04:06:43
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
Note: I made a mistake in my list. At the time, I did not realize that regular dreads could not take Fenrisian Great Axes + Blizzard Shields. But going forward, I'd probably drop either 1 dread or my infantry to fit the Venerables in.
Note: I made a mistake in my list. At the time, I did not realize that regular dreads could not take Fenrisian Great Axes + Blizzard Shields. But going forward, I'd probably drop either 1 dread or my infantry to fit the Venerables in.
Been thinking of dread heavy list too, but with 2-3 ironpriests on foot to heal the dreads, while the wolf priest heals the iron priests if they take damage. Do you think iron priests would benefit your army? Or is the D3 heal per model too little?
My idea was to let blizz shield dreads encircle the iron priests and wolf priest in a 6" radius from the wolf priest. Venerable dreads have 6+ regen on every unsaved wound, so they should get atleast 1 W back from that, then D3 from the iron priests which again benefits from the blizz shield and regen, if not killed in one turn, of course.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/29 22:29:32
2017/06/29 23:10:51
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
Note: I made a mistake in my list. At the time, I did not realize that regular dreads could not take Fenrisian Great Axes + Blizzard Shields. But going forward, I'd probably drop either 1 dread or my infantry to fit the Venerables in.
Been thinking of dread heavy list too, but with 2-3 ironpriests on foot to heal the dreads, while the wolf priest heals the iron priests if they take damage. Do you think iron priests would benefit your army? Or is the D3 heal per model too little?
My idea was to let blizz shield dreads encircle the iron priests and wolf priest in a 6" radius from the wolf priest. Venerable dreads have 6+ regen on every unsaved wound, so they should get atleast 1 W back from that, then D3 from the iron priests which again benefits from the blizz shield and regen, if not killed in one turn, of course.
Iron Priests are amazing, it's worth keeping something quick and melee focused nearby, most opponents will try to cut the priest away from the dreads, you'll need to cut it or the Dread free every turn or two.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
Thanks! With 6 dreads encircling the HQ, there's still lots of points left. Maybe run a couple of the WG bike squat that's been talked about, screened by the deathstar, to take off when enemies are near to get directly into haf range and fire 40 bolt shots at whatever is trying to cut the formation. Alternatively to fill gaps in the formation. Wolf priest can heal the bikers too.
Im interested in hearing what people think is generally strongest between 5 WG bikes and 3 TWC (both with SS on every model), as these units are roughly the same points cost.
Northern85Star wrote: Thanks! With 6 dreads encircling the HQ, there's still lots of points left. Maybe run a couple of the WG bike squat that's been talked about, screened by the deathstar, to take off when enemies are near to get directly into haf range and fire 40 bolt shots at whatever is trying to cut the formation. Alternatively to fill gaps in the formation. Wolf priest can heal the bikers too.
Im interested in hearing what people think is generally strongest between 5 WG bikes and 3 TWC (both with SS on every model), as these units are roughly the same points cost.
In my opinion Wolf Guard Bikers are more flexible but TWC respond better to buff auras - Having three wounds each means a Wolf Priest has more chance of saving models, they can chew through blob units and wound most big things naturally on a 5+, a little bit on the costly side but more than capable.
WGB on the other hand are stupidly mobile bolter platforms, capable in melee but nothing special - I use them for thinning MSU that don't recover numbers.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
2017/06/30 02:36:37
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
Hey folks, as this seems to be one of the best collection of people who know their SW, I've got a few questions I hope you can help with. I'm coming back to 40k after being away more than 20 years and picked up a bunch of SW second hand. I'm hoping you folks could suggest ways to tool out my forces, expand them, and then some ideas of what to do with them
What I have:
x10 BC/GH on sprue
5 x PAWG - 2x Claws, 1 x TH/SS, 2 x BP/CS TWCSS + Claws
TWCSS + TH TWCSS + TH TWCSS + Claws
TDA Wolf Lord SB/PS 4 longfangs + ancient - 2x lascannon, 1x Missile launcher, 1 x plasma cannon, 1 x plasma gun
5x TDAWG (or lone wolves I guess) - SB Chainfist, Flamer Pfist, TH Stormbolter, SB Pfist, SB chainfist
5x PAWG - SS + TH, Frost Axe, 2x claws, TH + SS, 2x claws
Ulrik
Iron priest
17 GH/BC assembled.
Land Raider Crusader
Drop pod
3 x Rhinos
I'm thinking of picking up a pair of Ven Dreads with axe/shield, Bjorn, some scouts, Arjac, Bikes (for rune/wolf/iron priests), runepriest and then I'm a bit lost. Maybe Wulfen to put in the Landraider (unless that's too many eggs in one basket)
The thinking is to be able to construct multiple lists that have BC/GH in Rhinos as objective runners, Bjorn/dreads or TWC as roving beatsticks/fire magnets, and then WG as deep strikers.
But I really have no idea, as it's been a while. Any feedback welcome
2017/06/30 03:06:16
Subject: Re:Owoo!! Space Wolf Tactica: 8th Edition.
Note: I made a mistake in my list. At the time, I did not realize that regular dreads could not take Fenrisian Great Axes + Blizzard Shields. But going forward, I'd probably drop either 1 dread or my infantry to fit the Venerables in.
Been thinking of dread heavy list too, but with 2-3 ironpriests on foot to heal the dreads, while the wolf priest heals the iron priests if they take damage. Do you think iron priests would benefit your army? Or is the D3 heal per model too little?
My idea was to let blizz shield dreads encircle the iron priests and wolf priest in a 6" radius from the wolf priest. Venerable dreads have 6+ regen on every unsaved wound, so they should get atleast 1 W back from that, then D3 from the iron priests which again benefits from the blizz shield and regen, if not killed in one turn, of course.
Iron Priests can only buff 1 unit. I much prefer characters that can buff multiple units. Buffing multiple units > buffing 1 unit. You can run Iron Priests but don't overdo it by running several. Instead, look at HQ's that have "bubble-buffs" (i.e. force-multiplier units that buff multiple other units).
Also, experienced generals will have the tendency to focus down enemy units. Say you have 3 dreads and 3 iron priests. In your opponent's turn, he focus-fires and wipes out one of your dreads. Now you have 3 iron priests and only 2 dreads. The extra iron priest just became deadweight! Smart players will just focus down 1 dread at a time so that you either have nothing to heal or very minimal units that can be healed.
I played two games tonight with my grey knights buddy. Decided on smaller 1500 point games. I thought I'd just make a 7th style murder list (twc, wulfen, WGBL on TWC and longfangs) to see how it does in 8th since I've only played one game of 8th so far.
I absolutely murdered him... twice. I rocked his LR Crusader with Longfang lascannon fire(just 2 of them) and then surrounded it with fully intact TWC and Wulfen and beat it to death with hammers and great axes. Since I had it surrounded Draigo, the Paladin 5 man squad and the apothecary all died because they couldn't be placed anywhere and not be within 1" of me @.@.
I know the list isn't viable as an all comers list but I found the Wulfen to be absolutely BRUTAL and survivable beyond anything I imagined. The storm shield spam on my TWC was more effective than ever as well with hot dice rolls and 3 wounds on the TWC now. Frost swords are so cheap I was able to put them on all of them. They killed a dreadnight after dying too.
Just wanted to share my surprise with TWC and Wulfen still being so brutal, I felt they weren't going to be as good. With higher point games and heavy support raining fire to support them I'm thinking of using them more again.
Sad to hear Wulfen are so great, since I don't particularly love the models. Are they notably better than TWC? Or is it the buff bubble that makes them so valuable?
Weazel wrote: Sad to hear Wulfen are so great, since I don't particularly love the models. Are they notably better than TWC? Or is it the buff bubble that makes them so valuable?
I felt the same until I thought of the Wulfen as the (fantasized) version of the "berserker rage" that Odin would bestow upon particular warriors during a battle and it kind of grew on me for some reason lol. I like them now.
I don't think they're notably better than TWC. Part of what happened was they synergized so well together still. The TWC with frost swords was only a little more expensive then I'd like because I gave the pack leader a thunder hammer. With good advance rolls though.. Wulfen are just as fast and just as deadly, if not more deadly, than the TWC. Least that's how it felt. The extra attacks + reroll wounds from the WGBL was a big factor as well though.
I'm fairly sure the murder list I ran would struggle against someone who brought a more balanced list (possibly). I only had the longfangs and skyclaws to deal with something like flyers.
A WGBL with jump pack costs only 3 points more than without! That's surely an error, but we should enjoy it while it lasts )
I am thinking about packing 2 small squads of BCs with WGPLs and a WGBL in a Crusader.
Another good combo is a fast Wolf Priest with 1 or 2 units of Fenrisian Wolves. You can use them to shield your TWC, Wulfen or transports from unwanted charges and buff them at the same time.
It's also worth noting that there are some serious differences between building a list with points or with power.
I.e. 10 GHs incl. WGPL is the same cost as without in points, but in power there is a difference of 2. Crusaders cost about the same in points as a Stormwolf, but noticably more in power.
10 BCs in a Rhino cost way more points than 10 GHs on foot, but only 1 power more.
Weazel wrote: Sad to hear Wulfen are so great, since I don't particularly love the models. Are they notably better than TWC? Or is it the buff bubble that makes them so valuable?
I find paint jobs matter a great deal.
I know three people who run Wulfen and two of them constantly get mocked for their Wulfen looking like monkeys - oh, and the Karate-kid pose of their leader.
My leader sits on the FLGS owner's shelf along with MC and A, they won me a modelling/painting competition.
Anyway, back to business. The models on the box look like monkeys or apes and most people paint theirs like the ones on the box.
Paint your Wulfen the same way you paint your TWC with the face and hands being the same or very similar to the rest of the furry parts, the classic wolfman job doesn't work because he looks like a monkey too, you gotta nab your inspiration from the Howling, Van Helsing and Underworld.
As for the Wulfen on the battlefield their best place is alongside the TWC not replacing them. Wulfen are beasts in their own right, they have access to S10 attacks that the TWC can no longer get, the shields cost them a puny five poins a model while TWC cough up three times that plus they let any non-wulfen or non-wolf Space Wolves model nearby re-roll charges or give them an extra attack.
Admittedly, they make beasts out of Wolf Guard Bikers.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
Gibs55 wrote: Is it worth putting Wulfen in a Land Raider?
Depends on what your opponent has to shoot with.
If they're packing squads of bolters or can dish up masses of mortal wounds load up the Land Raider, if they're packing a small number of single wound, multi-damage weaponry or are too close to get a solid round of shooting foot slog those bad boys and reap the aura benifits.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
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~15000 Astra Militarum: 
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