Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Raichase wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
It's really rather astonishing that GW hasn't just moved to providing all rules online for free so that they can simply update whichever part needs updating. Do it piecemeal as you finalise most of the army lists and then do it once every other month. Then they can introduce new units and characters whenever they feel like it without worrying about putting them in a book.

[...]

If they want to sell physical books they could make background and art books that are really luxurious to appeal to the die-hard fans of specific armies.

This is honestly how I expected 8th Edition to go too - with rules for units included in the boxes (which would also be free online), the books would be there for people who wanted the background info and the artwork etc. I felt that when the basic rules came out online they made a huge step forward, and with model rules included in the box as a "ready to throw on the table" gesture. Just seems that they need to make one more step forward. It would definitely drive model sales because, as we see almost constantly, a tweak to points values or a change in a special rule and people are dumping their suddenly non-competitive models by the boatload, ready to rush out and buy whatever the latest "most powerful" unit/faction is.

I think they're tending in the right direction, but old habits die hard. Heck, I still remember the dark old days when you couldn't GET the rulebook without buying the damned boxed game, regardless of if you wanted the two starter armies or not!

I think the app is coming but GW wants to push all the codexes out the door first.

nekooni wrote:

 thekingofkings wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

KnightoNi1894 wrote:

nekooni wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
That's 160 USD in rules to run a very simple Space Wolves Patrol. Am I wrong here? I thought 8th Edition was supposed to be simplified. It seems like it's just like 7th in terms of the number of rule books required for a Matched Play game using the most current rules.

Thoughts? Is this sort of nonsense going to continue?

Players thought lot. "Assault will be viable! Game is balanced! It's externally playtested to be most balanced 40k eva!"

Well trust GW to not really change things. Just shuffle around.

I've only played 7th and 8th, and I started somewhat later in 7th. I think 8th edition is way better balanced than 7th. Yes, it's not perfectly balanced, it's far from it.

Compared to 7th? Yeah, sure, I'll take it.
If you compare it to stuff that's better balanced it's still crap, but it's the best crap we have to play with that many and that diverse models on the table. Please correct me (and tell me where to buy it) if you know a game that's better at doing that.

You should check out Warmachine and Hordes. While not perfectly balanced, every army has viable options, and it's getting closer to balance with every CID (community integrated development) cycle. New models, and older models, move into a playtest period that is cycling through the factions. The rules are truly free for both the main book http://privateerpress.com/organized-play/game-rules-errata.
You can also print the current version of the cards four individual models and units here, Http://cards.privateerpress.com, for free. There's also an app called war room 2. It has all the rules, in a searchable and indexed form, and for a nominal fee ($9 per faction) you can use the app for all rules referencing, list building, and damage tacking for the entirety of this edition of the game. Fist two editions lasted around 5 years each.

So yes, the game you're looking for does exist. You also don't need your opponents permission to play with the large centerpiece models, either. They're actually balanced.

Knight

Warmachine models are almost all horrible both in sculpt and production though and have very few oppertunities for conversion or personalisation. And I'm saying this as someone who has 5 Warmahorde armies. Warmahordes is can't even see GW in terms of model variety, looks and diversity they're so far behind.

could not disagree with you more on the assessment of the model quality, I have found it to be the exact opposite.

Damn. Did i start that?
I dont like warma/hordes from an aesthetical PoV but thats subjective of course. I dont think there are nearly as many factions and unique sculpts as 40k has, and i was under tje assumption that its usually ("best") played with less than 50 miniatures on the table. Is any of that incorrect?

The force allowance really limits the amount of certain types of models, so generally I rarely see more than one of any unit on the table. around 50 models is about right (there is scaling to the game) IT does have its problems, but I have rarely if ever seen the kind of "garbage" I have while playing 40k and 8th is so far the worst of the bunch, its like guilliman leads every imp army ever. 40k really could take a lesson from FA in how to limit cheeze and spam. from a core rules perspective I have found GW to be lacking across the board in nearly everything except LOTR which is pretty solidly done. Aesthetic is a common thing I hear from about folks not into IK and to be honest its kinda like licorice, you either love it, hate it, or let it grow on you, either way it turns your poop green. I was not a fan of it in D20, but like its new RPG as much as i like CoI, though warmahordes proper is not my thing either. I have found it overall a much better conceived ruleset that works pretty good. There are those mismatches (but every game has those) that can seem one sided, but generally any force can win. Most of my army consists of "Prime" units and they have served me quite well (I usually win far more than I lose) something that core units in 40k just dont seem to do. I really think the FOC in 40k should be adjusted away from the "bring what you want" concept