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Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






With the changes to the number of attacks on units are Falchions worth taking on any unit now?

GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants" 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine




UK

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
With the changes to the number of attacks on units are Falchions worth taking on any unit now?
The falchion is pretty trash now - it's the equivalent of an AP-2 chainsword that has to compete with the equivalent of mastercrafted power weapons that are also free. You could try and convince yourself that all the melee buffs available could make them good - but those same buffs also work on the superior sword/halberd loadouts.

My rule of thumb for loading out units is now pretty much:
1. If it has hammerhand, swords
2. No hammerhand? halberds
3. If it is a GMDK or min size paladin unit, take some hammers
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






 Insularum wrote:
 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
With the changes to the number of attacks on units are Falchions worth taking on any unit now?
The falchion is pretty trash now - it's the equivalent of an AP-2 chainsword that has to compete with the equivalent of mastercrafted power weapons that are also free. You could try and convince yourself that all the melee buffs available could make them good - but those same buffs also work on the superior sword/halberd loadouts.

My rule of thumb for loading out units is now pretty much:
1. If it has hammerhand, swords
2. No hammerhand? halberds
3. If it is a GMDK or min size paladin unit, take some hammers


Sounds good. Do you still give hammers to the Justicars on units whenever possible?

GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants" 
   
Made in hk
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
With the changes to the number of attacks on units are Falchions worth taking on any unit now?


Unfortunately now I think the falchions are only better than other GK melee weapons in killing the non-Nurgle minor Daemons (maybe will be ok aganist Nurgle minor Daemons if Nurgle Daemon also change their DR to be in line with Deathguard) ..... It fits the fluff though, but it is too narrow.
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine




UK

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
 Insularum wrote:
 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
With the changes to the number of attacks on units are Falchions worth taking on any unit now?
The falchion is pretty trash now - it's the equivalent of an AP-2 chainsword that has to compete with the equivalent of mastercrafted power weapons that are also free. You could try and convince yourself that all the melee buffs available could make them good - but those same buffs also work on the superior sword/halberd loadouts.

My rule of thumb for loading out units is now pretty much:
1. If it has hammerhand, swords
2. No hammerhand? halberds
3. If it is a GMDK or min size paladin unit, take some hammers


Sounds good. Do you still give hammers to the Justicars on units whenever possible?
I'm using hammers sparingly - if you have some points left over to spend then by all means go for them but they are not going to be an auto take on all units for me. I'll probably be using Rapiers Brotherhood the most, so for me I probably won't bother upgrading from basic swords on hammerhand units, but on the brotherhood units without hammerhand (probably just Interceptors) they could use symphonic strike quite effectively with a hammer justicar mixed in.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Hammers are so bad I don't even consider them on my heros. -1 to hit is awful - esp when you can get a mortal on a 6 to wound.

   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






So uh, are Purifiers worth running anymore? Seems to be the unit people are talking about the least right now. Lack of access to Brotherhoods (without the buffs to WS and powers that Paladins have to make up for that) and needing a transport to actually survive getting into flame range makes me think they're pretty crap at the moment.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/31 20:17:03


GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants" 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So uh, are Purifiers worth running anymore? Seems to be the unit people are talking about the least right now. Lack of access to Brotherhoods (without the buffs to WS and powers that Paladins have to make up for that) and needing a transport to actually survive getting into flame range makes me think they're pretty crap at the moment.


The buff to casting Puriflying flame isn't bad per se but for pretty much the same price as 5 of them you can just take 3 paladins with it AND the +1 to saves armor. Now that we have full smite on everyone the flame isn't good enough to warrant a unit dedicated to casting a slightly stronger smite.

What's really silly for MW output is a Librarian with the Gem, the apposite warlord trait and Smite+Flame+Vortex.
Just drop him next to anything and he'll output 13 MW on average with just 2 CP (1 for the additional cast and 1 for extended range on the flame).
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I think Purifiers are worth it. Take a squad of 10, combat squad them, and put them into a Rhino. Their purifying flame can be cast multiple times and get a +1 to the cast. Once you cast Smite a few times you get to an 8 or 9 and you probably won't get many more. Purifiers let you switch over to another kind of power and continue to lay in the psychic hate.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





It's actually much worse than that - lots of tedious details in the GK rules.

Gem only gives +2 to cast dominus powers. (only vortex is dominus)

Psychic Epitome only gives +1 mortal to witchfires (smite is not a witchfire)

Purifying flame has only 9 " range too ehh...pretty much useless. You are better off using your bonus castings on your core abilities (entropic amplification/Gates of infinity/sanctuary) with the 3d6 to cast drop the lowest stratagem + gem for a turn - you drastically improve their cast rates.Dont get me wrong - I do like the nuclear librarian but I just don't think it's worth getting gem and the +1mortal trait for him. Just take vortex + gates on him.This way he can reliably teleport nuke with vortex/smite. Or gates him in with something else and in that cast youd be best off with vortex/smite/purge soul (cant be spending a cp to give 1 abilitiy out of 3 +6" range)


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/01 14:39:16


 
   
Made in us
Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




Illinois

I was thinking you could take the Librarian plus Vortex and Purifying Flame and the Epitome WL trait and then use the "cast another power strat" on him so he can cast smite. I also think you should give him a combi-melta to add insult to injury.

Time flies like an arrow, fruit flies like a banana. 
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





New Topic.

I have fooled around with 3 different lists.
Lesson I have learned is CP is hugely valuable in this army. So despite the awesomeness of Crowe and a chaplain they are simply to expensive to include due to detachment costs.

For brotherhoods - it's just a spell you probably wont be using much and a stratagem you wont be able to afford later in the game because you are buffing your librarian up for more reliable powers. At least that is how my first 3 games have gone. Out of CP by turn 2 and every turn after that I am using 1 cp to get 3d6 to cast gates and sanctuary for my support libby - because those spells are so important.

The best ability we have is empiric amplification - it massively buffs damage against a single target so strategies that make use of this power the best will be most effective.

Min 5 man strike squads are the best unit in the army. Swords most the time /halberds some of the time. I see no reason to ever give them a heavy weapon because they will be moving literally every turn. I'd recommend 1 or 2 10 mans and combat sqaud them msot the time - it is nice to have a big opening play with a 10 man on turn 1 and it's also great to gates a 10 man into action later in the game with sanctuary (can be a game winning play).

Have not actually fooled around with tides much so far (just starting and staying in convergence all game) this I feel might actually be a hindrance. The +1 armor tide I would be getting a lot more out of as our units already hit so hard and there is so much short ranged damage in this army - mortals on 6 to wound is kinda overkill (unless you are playing custodians or something obviously) I would really recommend bringing warp shaping in your list. Literally no idea where to put it though.

Just some things I have learned and observed so far. Still far from making a perfect list.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 LesPaul wrote:
I was thinking you could take the Librarian plus Vortex and Purifying Flame and the Epitome WL trait and then use the "cast another power strat" on him so he can cast smite. I also think you should give him a combi-melta to add insult to injury.

You can.

here is the issue though. Epitome WL trait does not give +1 damage to smite (not witchfire) - Gem only gives +2 to cast for dominus powers (so just vortex in this case) - you will also have to pay 1 CP for + range just to benefit purifying flame. So 3 CP now for 3d6 cast +1 power and +6 range. You will likely do about 10-11 mortal wounds. Where as a Libby with just vortex and smite will probably do about 5.

Just think about it. For 3 CP you could play 2/3 other stratagems.

That +6" range power is probably better used apply empyric amplification from a safer position out of deny range and the damage stratagems for our psi weapons and storm bolters are also quite good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/01 17:04:45


 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






So...should I be looking for how to spam as many librarians as possible? Like 3 or something?

GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants" 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I sincerely believe that the strength of the Grey Knights codex is in it's power-armored troops. Strike Squads, Interceptors, Purifiers, and maybe a GMDK. A couple of Rhinos and Servitor squads to taste, and as few characters as you can get away with. I may be wrong, but that seems to be the strongest mix to me.
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






bmsattler wrote:
I sincerely believe that the strength of the Grey Knights codex is in it's power-armored troops. Strike Squads, Interceptors, Purifiers, and maybe a GMDK. A couple of Rhinos and Servitor squads to taste, and as few characters as you can get away with. I may be wrong, but that seems to be the strongest mix to me.


No, its true, and it sucks. GK Terminators IMO are some of the best models GW has ever made but the units themselves haven't been competitive since like 6e. I still take them, but I'm handicapping myself by not taking another GKSS instead.

Anyway, managed to find a box of GK Termies at my FLGS. Thinking about making them into a Apothecary, a Brotherhood ancient, and 3 Paladins with hammers. Should I give the Apothecary any weapon instead of the sword? I was thinking about a hammer but he's only WS 3+...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/02 03:17:58


GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants" 
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine




UK

So, thought I would share a couple of dumb ideas I've been thinking about. While looking through less optimal units to see if they have any unusual options, I started looking at what a Stormraven could do besides acting as the required transport to make purifiers work and came up with these:

1. Psybolt Ammunition is not <CORE> or <INFANTRY> locked, and the Stormraven is a unit of less than 6 models, so could benefit from buffed hurricanes/twin heavy bolters for the discounted 1cp version.
2. The core rulebook FAQ on warhammer community (page 2, "Psychic Actions") seems to confirm that psychic actions are equal to psychic powers in all respects... The Stormraven would make a good delivery system for an Ancient with banner of refining flame who could use Powerful Adept to make that a 12" radius MW nuke (about 15% coverage of a minimum size table).
For all intents and purposes, when a unit attempts a psychic action, this is treated the same as if they were attempting to manifest a psychic power, and as such triggers any rules that interact with manifesting a psychic power

**edit, undercooked table coverage of the nuke, including base size into blast radius it gets even worse

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/02 09:45:10


 
   
Made in it
Fresh-Faced New User




 Insularum wrote:

2. The core rulebook FAQ on warhammer community (page 2, "Psychic Actions") seems to confirm that psychic actions are equal to psychic powers in all respects... The Stormraven would make a good delivery system for an Ancient with banner of refining flame who could use Powerful Adept to make that a 12" radius MW nuke (about 15% coverage of a minimum size table).


As nice as it sounds it's still just d3 mortal wounds. Had it been a Smite you could've hoped for a d6 mortals bomb, maybe sniping out some charachters but as it stands it's hardly worth building around. Maybe just a nice addition if you were already dropping people off the Stormraven and wanted to bring the Ancient along
   
Made in gb
Bounding Assault Marine




UK

The relic banner action is d3 on each enemy unit in range though, so it can stack up quickly when that range is pushed out to 12", and like purifying flame it is another low warp charge alternative to smite. Sniping isn't a bad idea though, as both purge soul and severance bolts can be targeted, so potentially a reasonably reliable 3d3 MW's thrown at a choice character.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So...should I be looking for how to spam as many librarians as possible? Like 3 or something?

Lots of good characters but only so many have 2 spell casts. Just draigo/ Voldus/ and libbys have cast 2 powers standard. Libby is by far the cheapest option.
They all combo really well for 2 CP to cast 3 powers at 3d6 drop the lowest. I haven't had a turn yet where I havnt used that combo if I had the CP.

Grand masters do know 2 spells though can just cast 1 - so they also aren't a bad place to use the combo - you just miss out on the smite.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/02 16:46:44


 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






Are Brother-Captains worth considering? Getting a re-roll to wound, even if just on a 1, without having to risk a psychic test on Hammerhand for multiple units seems tempting.

GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants" 
   
Made in hk
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Are Brother-Captains worth considering? Getting a re-roll to wound, even if just on a 1, without having to risk a psychic test on Hammerhand for multiple units seems tempting.


I think he is worth considering if you are taking more than one Purgation Squad. The GK powers/stratagem offering reroll to wound usually don't apply to shooting. But his buff covers shooting.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





Bringing a Paladin deathstar this weekend. 4x Psilencers and plan to buff it's shooting every turn.

Running as Mardmakers so I can get empyric amplification off every turn with the undeniable 8+. to boost Their damage and draigo will be giving them reroll all hits as often as possible.

Their spells are +1 save and ignore cover but they can always forget a power and learn whatever power they want for 1 CP- probably will do this to get hammer hand at some point. They all have halberds.
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






Does a 10-man Paladin deathstar like the DraigoWings of old still have a chance?

Thinking of a 10 man group, 9 hammers, 1 warding staff, 4 psycannons. 600 points but anything it shoots or assaults is dead, end of story. Only thing I can't decide is what their second psychic power should be after hammerhand.

GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants" 
   
Made in pl
Been Around the Block




Well, Strike Marines as well as Interceptors in 10 Man group also kill anything they touch, and you can have almost 3 squads of them for the 1 paladinstar squad.
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






Jabberscythe wrote:
Well, Strike Marines as well as Interceptors in 10 Man group also kill anything they touch, and you can have almost 3 squads of them for the 1 paladinstar squad.


Well yeah but they die quick to everything. 10 paladins with staff, Armored Resilience, and if needed Truesilver Armor are pretty going to tank anything thrown at them.

GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants" 
   
Made in hk
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant




 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Jabberscythe wrote:
Well, Strike Marines as well as Interceptors in 10 Man group also kill anything they touch, and you can have almost 3 squads of them for the 1 paladinstar squad.


Well yeah but they die quick to everything. 10 paladins with staff, Armored Resilience, and if needed Truesilver Armor are pretty going to tank anything thrown at them.


I think if you are going for Armor Resilience, you don't need warding staff. 1+ armor means even against AP-3 you still have 4+ save, so unless the enemy can spam lots of multiple shots AP-4 weapons, your enhanced armor save is better than 4++. Also if you are standing in terrain, great, enemy need Ap-5 weapon to drop your save below 4+ now.
   
Made in pl
Been Around the Block




Idk if they die quickly? 60 wounds total, with option to have 4+ invul, being able to trade in 3 diffrent places, more firepower to clear screens.
If your opponent have a unit with similar dmg output and he delete one of your units you still have 2 for trade, if he delete paladins you will not have much left to fight, they were super strong when you could stack multiple defensive powers and stratagems to make them nearly unkillable, they lost a lot of those tools which makes them not worth the points in my opinion, unless You play a game for fun and just want this draigowing to be alive
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR


Hey there folks,

So I'm thinking of putting together a themed Dreadnought list of Grey-knights, (heavily converted sci-fi psychic storm-giants,) mostly because I love dreadnought style lists and wanted to give the new grey-knights a go.

My proposed start to this endeavor is a simple 1k list that I put together using battle-scribe, and can currently afford to get all the parts for. Here is the list:

1x Grand master in Dreadknight: Sword, Heavy Incincerator and Heavy Psycannon (prob with the warlord trait that gives obsec to core units within 6'')

x2 Dreadnought w/assault cannon and close
combat weapon

x2 Ven. Dreadnought w/Multi-melta and close
combat weapon

x1 Dreadknight with sword, Heavy Incinerator and Heavy Psycannon

All this comes out to around 1k points. What I want to know before I might actually put this together is: will it be mildly competitive in a casual setting? Not "beat everyone and make them hate me and my army" style competitive, I'm not looking for that, just: "will it provide a good game" type competitive.

(also: If there are small things you can think that would fit within the theme then please let me know!)

Thanks in advance everyone!
   
Made in pl
Been Around the Block




It will not, dreadknights are competetive but dreadnought’s and vendreds are not.
If you dont want to play any other models beside robots, go for imperial knight’s or chaos knights.

If you want to play grey knights you will need some heroes and regular Dudes aswell just to be able to play missions (primary and secondary objectives)
What you can do is including swordbearers brotherhood detachment with GMNDK and 3 NDK for a total of 4 big robots, this should be strong.
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws






The only weapon you should be giving dreadnoughts are twin Lascannons as long-range heavy firepower is the only thing they do that other GK units don't do better and/or cheaper.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/05 23:36:33


GW: "We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants" 
   
 
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