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Pyrothem wrote:

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:
For anyone that uses the Qaurtermaster app, I have been working on the 8th edition Necron template and just finished it up. I have been working with the main dev throughout the process, and hopefully we'll have it up soon for everyone to use.

Nice thanks for the hard work.
Makes it easier for us lazy bums.

It was certainly a labor of love. Made a couple tweaks, and we're planning on it being up this weekend for everybody.

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

It was certainly a labor of love. Made a couple tweaks, and we're planning on it being up this weekend for everybody.

Initially read that as "twerks" instead of "tweaks" and now I have an image in my head that must be cleansed with fire.

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

I really don't believe you can create sufficient durability in a rule that can be hamstrung so easily.

It's really not easy at all to drop 20 Warriors in one turn. The volume of fire on the table has gone down substantially. Also, you can still use 5th edition shenanigans like anchoring your blobs behind LOS, like a Mono.

The loss of gauss doesn't help either. It's not that we lost gauss, it's that we lost an edge. The mechanics of 7th made it so that our lack of high strength shooting volume wasn't so glaring. Gauss made our volume viable, while our durability kept our volume up.

Getting -1 (or-2 ) AP for basic weapons on troops more then makes up for this. Now we are wounding light to medium vehicles on 5s and heavy vehicles on 6s, and dropping their save at the same time.

It hurts us very badly that crypteks and overlords have no RP

The fact that Character can no longer be shot at makes this largely a non issue. For the most part, the only damage they will take is a random wound here and there from snipers (which living metal will neutralize), or maybe some in CC.

I totally disagree. Focus fire warriors and get them to 7 casualties and morale starts taking effect. Toughness 4 with a 4+? Nothing special. Once people realize all you need to do is focus fire and wipe a unit to deny RP, it will become the tactic. Remember, everything wounds now.

Gauss was way more effective than the current weapon stats due to the game mechanic for durability being different. Vehicles generally had 3-4 hp and no save. Glances were an easy way to dispatch them.

Once everyone has played a few games, these deficiencies become very obvious....especially our reliance on unimpressive and expensive characters that have no rp

 Maelstrom808 wrote:

 SHADOWSTRIKE1 wrote:

It was certainly a labor of love. Made a couple tweaks, and we're planning on it being up this weekend for everybody.

Initially read that as "twerks" instead of "tweaks" and now I have an image in my head that must be cleansed with fire.

punisher357 wrote:

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

I really don't believe you can create sufficient durability in a rule that can be hamstrung so easily.

It's really not easy at all to drop 20 Warriors in one turn. The volume of fire on the table has gone down substantially. Also, you can still use 5th edition shenanigans like anchoring your blobs behind LOS, like a Mono.

The loss of gauss doesn't help either. It's not that we lost gauss, it's that we lost an edge. The mechanics of 7th made it so that our lack of high strength shooting volume wasn't so glaring. Gauss made our volume viable, while our durability kept our volume up.

Getting -1 (or-2 ) AP for basic weapons on troops more then makes up for this. Now we are wounding light to medium vehicles on 5s and heavy vehicles on 6s, and dropping their save at the same time.

It hurts us very badly that crypteks and overlords have no RP

The fact that Character can no longer be shot at makes this largely a non issue. For the most part, the only damage they will take is a random wound here and there from snipers (which living metal will neutralize), or maybe some in CC.

I totally disagree. Focus fire warriors and get them to 7 casualties and morale starts taking effect. Toughness 4 with a 4+? Nothing special. Once people realize all you need to do is focus fire and wipe a unit to deny RP, it will become the tactic. Remember, everything wounds now.

Gauss was way more effective than the current weapon stats due to the game mechanic for durability being different. Vehicles generally had 3-4 hp and no save. Glances were an easy way to dispatch them.

Once everyone has played a few games, these deficiencies become very obvious....especially our reliance on unimpressive and expensive characters that have no rp

Very unimpressed by RP now, but them's the breaks. 20 man blobs don't feel that important to me, they're expensive and don't have as much impact on the game as 10 man Immortal units. I'm really only considering Warriors if I want to do Ghost Arks, which actually doesn't seem that bad now. On the other hand, Night Scythes + Immortals is more expensive, but I think potentially better in the long run. Dropping 10 Gauss into Rapid Fire range and supporting them with the Destructors is a pretty solid amount of damage.

Thinking something like:

Overlord - Warscythe
Cryptek

Immortals x9 - Gauss
Immortals x9 - Gauss
Immortals x9 - Tesla
Immortals x10 - Tesla

Deathmarks x5
Deathmarks x5

Night Scythe
Night Scythe

Destroyers - 2x Regular, 1x Heavy
Destroyers - 2x Regular, 1x Heavy
Destroyers - 2x Regular, 1x Heavy

1996/2000, 6 Command

Lots of decent strength shooting, not the most bodies but also not a super low amount. Lack of screening hurts a bit, but I think there's enough mobility and damage output that eating an early charge won't be the worst thing in the world.

punisher357 wrote:

I totally disagree. Focus fire warriors and get them to 7 casualties and morale starts taking effect. Toughness 4 with a 4+? Nothing special. Once people realize all you need to do is focus fire and wipe a unit to deny RP, it will become the tactic. Remember, everything wounds now.

Gauss was way more effective than the current weapon stats due to the game mechanic for durability being different. Vehicles generally had 3-4 hp and no save. Glances were an easy way to dispatch them.

Once everyone has played a few games, these deficiencies become very obvious....especially our reliance on unimpressive and expensive characters that have no rp

I totally agree with you. I played a few games with necrons and they have durability and leadership issues (which feels very wierd to say). Warriors have the durability of a piece of tissue, so they need to be taken in large units so the unit doesn't get wiped, losing RP (this applies to all of our infantry, but warriors have the biggest problem with this). But because they're so flimsy, they'll take a lot of casualties, so morale becomes a problem (T4 4+ is not hard to kill). This means that you'll be spending command points just to keep the unit alive from morale.

Now that vehicles have 6+ wounds and an actual save, getting 1 or 2 in from gauss is a lot less threatening. In 7th, getting 2 HP off a vehicle usually left a vehicle with 1/3 to 1/2 of its total wounds left. In 8th, getting 2 wounds of a vehicle is only 1/3 the total wounds off something like a venom.

I'm really warming up to Tesla. Doubling the shots on the big ones, letting them "snapshoot" with the bonus, and being able to fall back from combat and still shoot makes them pretty appealing. AP0 sucks, but it's honestly a lot, lot of dice. It's almost to the point where I'm considering the Obelisk - still stupid expensive, but you can potentially put out a really dumb number of wounds in one go, has a lot to chew through, and can't be locked down.

Requizen wrote:
I'm really warming up to Tesla. Doubling the shots on the big ones, letting them "snapshoot" with the bonus, and being able to fall back from combat and still shoot makes them pretty appealing. AP0 sucks, but it's honestly a lot, lot of dice. It's almost to the point where I'm considering the Obelisk - still stupid expensive, but you can potentially put out a really dumb number of wounds in one go, has a lot to chew through, and can't be locked down.

Obelisk is still overcost for most applications, and doesn't really help us in the areas where are weak, specifically anti-vehicle work. Gravity pulse is so flaky and low damage it might as well not exists. You can get the same offense from 10 immortals with tesla for just over a fourth of the cost. Given that they have painted themselves into a corner with it's points cost compared to a monolith, so they can't just reduce it's price to bring it in line so they are going to have to do something with gravity pulse to make it worthwhile.

Our Codex will be the next balance pass for the obelisk, so if we make some noise and offer good suggestion we might see a fix in there.

here is my suggestion, make gravity pulse affect everyone, and if a unit takes a wound from gravity pulse it can't advance or charge on it's next turn.

 krodarklorr wrote:

punisher357 wrote:


Oh right! I forgot it isn't +1 to hit
Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed with this edition so far....too many flash backs to the 5th/early 6th edition codec.

However, I am really looking forward to using the monolith! Being able to put all those shots on one target is a substantial amount of fire power.

Yup. I remember 5th edition when half our codex was useless. Guess we're back to that. I'm super disappointed too.

And the monolith still isn't worth it. You can get more Gauss shots from a unit of immortals, and they have the same strength and AP. And the particle whip is also lame at only AP-2, and the model is BS 4+ now, which is terrible.

The Monolith is supposed to be a durable support vehicle in addition to having weapons.

It can deep strike safely and then bring units super close to the enemy safely. It isn't always about the weapon crunching.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

punisher357 wrote:


Oh right! I forgot it isn't +1 to hit
Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed with this edition so far....too many flash backs to the 5th/early 6th edition codec.

However, I am really looking forward to using the monolith! Being able to put all those shots on one target is a substantial amount of fire power.

Yup. I remember 5th edition when half our codex was useless. Guess we're back to that. I'm super disappointed too.

And the monolith still isn't worth it. You can get more Gauss shots from a unit of immortals, and they have the same strength and AP. And the particle whip is also lame at only AP-2, and the model is BS 4+ now, which is terrible.

The Monolith is supposed to be a durable support vehicle in addition to having weapons.

It can deep strike safely and then bring units super close to the enemy safely. It isn't always about the weapon crunching.

For a "support" vehicle it doesn't have any support functions. No buffs or extra reanimation or anything, just the ability to teleport in. Except you can't teleport from it if they just kill it or surround it. So... it's an expensive Drop Pod that works sometimes and doesn't give much shooting. Not sure what to think of that.

Hey so the more I think about our lack of heavy weapons options the more I'm awaiting the FW book. It may be that we have to look that way for Heavy weapon options.

Think about it. Almost all of our FW stuff is a heavy weapons platform. Pylons have long range melta, a souped up HGC, and THE DEATH RAY!

And a bomber

And a huge pylon

And little fast flying bugs with mass melta. (A squad of these being MWBD'ing by a CCB)...

And the barge.

These might plug the gap in our army, with various roles filled by the different units (Heavy anti infantry/Heavy anti vehicle). It's out a month after 8th drops (next Saturday) so I can't see it being too long to wait before our army balances out.

Requizen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

punisher357 wrote:


Oh right! I forgot it isn't +1 to hit
Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed with this edition so far....too many flash backs to the 5th/early 6th edition codec.

However, I am really looking forward to using the monolith! Being able to put all those shots on one target is a substantial amount of fire power.

Yup. I remember 5th edition when half our codex was useless. Guess we're back to that. I'm super disappointed too.

And the monolith still isn't worth it. You can get more Gauss shots from a unit of immortals, and they have the same strength and AP. And the particle whip is also lame at only AP-2, and the model is BS 4+ now, which is terrible.

The Monolith is supposed to be a durable support vehicle in addition to having weapons.

It can deep strike safely and then bring units super close to the enemy safely. It isn't always about the weapon crunching.

For a "support" vehicle it doesn't have any support functions. No buffs or extra reanimation or anything, just the ability to teleport in. Except you can't teleport from it if they just kill it or surround it. So... it's an expensive Drop Pod that works sometimes and doesn't give much shooting. Not sure what to think of that.

Quoting myself, but that said, I think I'm gonna try it more. Moving assault units with it is dumb, but Warriors or Immortals coming out it it might not be too bad. Just depends on the army you're facing.

 krodarklorr wrote:

punisher357 wrote:


Oh right! I forgot it isn't +1 to hit
Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed with this edition so far....too many flash backs to the 5th/early 6th edition codec.

However, I am really looking forward to using the monolith! Being able to put all those shots on one target is a substantial amount of fire power.

Yup. I remember 5th edition when half our codex was useless. Guess we're back to that. I'm super disappointed too.

And the monolith still isn't worth it. You can get more Gauss shots from a unit of immortals, and they have the same strength and AP. And the particle whip is also lame at only AP-2, and the model is BS 4+ now, which is terrible.

That's because the monolith isn't a combat unit. Its a support/transport unit. It's always been that way. Even in 3rd ed its offensive capabilities were mediocre compared to the other factions.
But yeah, the 4+ to hit sucks. Maybe its a typo or something, but I doubt it.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

punisher357 wrote:


Oh right! I forgot it isn't +1 to hit
Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed with this edition so far....too many flash backs to the 5th/early 6th edition codec.

However, I am really looking forward to using the monolith! Being able to put all those shots on one target is a substantial amount of fire power.

Yup. I remember 5th edition when half our codex was useless. Guess we're back to that. I'm super disappointed too.

And the monolith still isn't worth it. You can get more Gauss shots from a unit of immortals, and they have the same strength and AP. And the particle whip is also lame at only AP-2, and the model is BS 4+ now, which is terrible.

That's because the monolith isn't a combat unit. Its a support/transport unit. It's always been that way. Even in 3rd ed its offensive capabilities were mediocre compared to the other factions.
But yeah, the 4+ to hit sucks. Maybe its a typo or something, but I doubt it.

As you are the second person to say that, I'll just reply to one of you. The monolith is almost 400 points, has no invuln or QS, and 20 wounds. It has to sit a round before it can bring dudes up, and it's not hard to deal with by almost all armies. It is just simply not worth it.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

punisher357 wrote:


Oh right! I forgot it isn't +1 to hit
Yeah, I'm pretty disappointed with this edition so far....too many flash backs to the 5th/early 6th edition codec.

However, I am really looking forward to using the monolith! Being able to put all those shots on one target is a substantial amount of fire power.

Yup. I remember 5th edition when half our codex was useless. Guess we're back to that. I'm super disappointed too.

And the monolith still isn't worth it. You can get more Gauss shots from a unit of immortals, and they have the same strength and AP. And the particle whip is also lame at only AP-2, and the model is BS 4+ now, which is terrible.

That's because the monolith isn't a combat unit. Its a support/transport unit. It's always been that way. Even in 3rd ed its offensive capabilities were mediocre compared to the other factions.
But yeah, the 4+ to hit sucks. Maybe its a typo or something, but I doubt it.

As you are the second person to say that, I'll just reply to one of you. The monolith is almost 400 points, has no invuln or QS, and 20 wounds. It has to sit a round before it can bring dudes up, and it's not hard to deal with by almost all armies. It is just simply not worth it.

Yeah I can see that reasoning. It could use a bit more utility and a defensive buff. Maybe regen 3 wounds instead of 1 or something.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

torblind wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
So, after being unimpressed by our vehicles, and Anni barges in particular, I decided to write a QS heavy list to see what it looks like. Actually seems like it might be ok...

Orikan

20 Warriors
10 Gauss Immortals
10 Tesla Immortals

3x H.Destroyers

T.Stalker
Anni barge
Anni barge
Anni barge
DDA
DDA

2000pts, 4CPs

Pretty good anti-tank for a Necron list and a lot of dakka. Still has a decent phalanx to hold the mid field and the Anni barges are pretty fast moving if they need to grab an objective.

Don't you need another HQ?

It's the heavy support detachment so you only need 1HQ.

I had a DDA charged by a flying hive tyrant on turn 1 in a game. QS stopped a lot of the HTs damage then the Ark fell back and shot it in the face. First blood to Necrons lol.

You're probably right, but just so I understand till I'll be building my own lists; that is not a battalion + heavy support? Since battalion also requires 2 HQs? How do you get 4CPs

torblind wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

torblind wrote:

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
So, after being unimpressed by our vehicles, and Anni barges in particular, I decided to write a QS heavy list to see what it looks like. Actually seems like it might be ok...

Orikan

20 Warriors
10 Gauss Immortals
10 Tesla Immortals

3x H.Destroyers

T.Stalker
Anni barge
Anni barge
Anni barge
DDA
DDA

2000pts, 4CPs

Pretty good anti-tank for a Necron list and a lot of dakka. Still has a decent phalanx to hold the mid field and the Anni barges are pretty fast moving if they need to grab an objective.

Don't you need another HQ?

It's the heavy support detachment so you only need 1HQ.

I had a DDA charged by a flying hive tyrant on turn 1 in a game. QS stopped a lot of the HTs damage then the Ark fell back and shot it in the face. First blood to Necrons lol.

You're probably right, but just so I understand till I'll be building my own lists; that is not a battalion + heavy support? Since battalion also requires 2 HQs? How do you get 4CPs

All Battleforged lists provide 3CP base. The heavy support detachment gives +1 CP
3+1 = 4CP

 Klowny wrote:
Hey so the more I think about our lack of heavy weapons options the more I'm awaiting the FW book. It may be that we have to look that way for Heavy weapon options.

Think about it. Almost all of our FW stuff is a heavy weapons platform. Pylons have long range melta, a souped up HGC, and THE DEATH RAY!

And a bomber

And a huge pylon

And little fast flying bugs with mass melta. (A squad of these being MWBD'ing by a CCB)...

And the barge.

These might plug the gap in our army, with various roles filled by the different units (Heavy anti infantry/Heavy anti vehicle). It's out a month after 8th drops (next Saturday) so I can't see it being too long to wait before our army balances out.

Since there is a concrete possibility that the Pound will keep dropping in the near future (due to the UK general election's result), I am really considering a FW order mid-summer. I'll wait the FW Index to decide on what models to buy.
The sad thing is that playing with FW models will still be as difficult as it has always been (TO not allowing models, random guys that refuse to even play against FW stuff, ...).

I would buy a Tesseract Vault or Pylon in a heartbeat if they were worthwhile. I have a Tomb Stalker I never built because they were just terrible in 6th/7th.

Im seriously looking at aranthracites, barge, pylons. Has been looking glum for me the last few days until I realised I was working on some FW and then remembered the rest of the range.

So something we haven't discussed yet - fortifications.

Normally Fortifications aren't really for Necrons. They're for armies that have extreme range weaponry on troops and don't care about moving (Tau, Devastators, Guard), but now with Tesla Immortals being extremely good, they might be worth a shot.

An Aegis Line with an Icarus Autocannon in front of 10 Immortals and an Overlord gives you a solid 2+ shooting unit anywhere your choice in your DZ, for 100 points (105 with Quad). The gun is a bit crap, but plenty of things have the Fly keyword now, so not all that bad.

A VSG is 190 and gives a 4++ to everything within a foot. Hello invuln HDestroyers, Doomsday arks, and Annihilation Barges! Expensive, though.

A Skyshield is only 110 and gives anything on top a 5++. You can easily fit two DDArks on there, though I'm not sure they need the Invuln given QS.

The Defense Line is probably the best option, able to cover two units of Immortals easily. You can get 2+ in any cover, sure, but the line lets you place it where you need, say on an objective or in firing range of midfield objectives.

Just found this gem of a thread, so sorry if I post an idea already covered.

I've been limited to small games of 8th while I try to learn all the rules, but I came across a pretty potent combo.

Take a Cryptek, an Overlord, a 10 man Immortal unit, and a Triarch Stalker.

Stick the Overlord/Cryptek behind the Immortals and the Stalker somewhat close. Nominate the Immortals for the Overlords 'My Will Be Done'.

Pick a unit in range, than shoot at it with the Stalker, then the Immortals, if you hit with the Stalker the Immortals will have 20 shots hitting on 2+ re-rolling 1's.

This works well when you take 2 Night Scythes and 2 warrior blobs, take the night Scythes and move them the full 60" up, if they survive a turn of shooting you can drop the 20-40 warriors behind or in front of the enemy. This also works well with 2 units of Praetorians.

Just my 2 cents

I totally disagree. Focus fire warriors and get them to 7 casualties and morale starts taking effect. Toughness 4 with a 4+? Nothing special. Once people realize all you need to do is focus fire and wipe a unit to deny RP, it will become the tactic. Remember, everything wounds now.

Gauss was way more effective than the current weapon stats due to the game mechanic for durability being different. Vehicles generally had 3-4 hp and no save. Glances were an easy way to dispatch them.

Once everyone has played a few games, these deficiencies become very obvious....especially our reliance on unimpressive and expensive characters that have no rp

First, everybody realized the way to deal with RP instantly. It's not a big secret. Second, until you've taken at least 12 casualties on a 20 man blob, you're really not fearing the effects of moral at all. In range of a Cryptek and a GA you are getting 75% of your casualties back every single turn.

I really don't think you fully appreciate what a non issue the lack of RP is on Characters. Play a few games. They simply don't need it anymore.

I'm starting to wonder if a more fast elite style force is better. Tomb Blades, Praetorians, Destroyers, and Wraiths are all T5 multiwound models that move fast and (aside from the Wraiths) have good damage output. With a couple DLords to keep up with them you can easily take a very fast force that will almost never be wounded on 2+ (very few S10 guns in the game).

T5 multiwound, I think, is going to be a big part of the meta. TWC, Bikes, Wraithguard, etc. All of those units fit that profile and also are pretty good at killing those units: AP-3 damage on both Praets and Destroyers, shooting and combat on the former and d3 damage on the latter. And Tomb Blades put out a pretty silly number of shots.

Shadar_Logoth wrote:
Second, until you've taken at least 12 casualties on a 20 man blob, you're really not fearing the effects of moral at all.

If you lost 12 warriors, aren't you losing D6 + 2 warriors to morale?

Pretty sure it's 12 (casualties) - 10 (LD) + D6

The monolith is almost 400 points, has no invuln or QS, and 20 wounds. It has to sit a round before it can bring dudes up, and it's not hard to deal with by almost all armies. It is just simply not worth it.

I'm a little skeptic about the current iteration as well, but I'm not sure if it's not worth it, yet. It's volume of fire somewhat makes up for it's poor BS and the fact that it's a giant LOS blocker is one that people seem to completely over look, and have been for 5 editions now. That's arguably it's number 1 trait.

That being said, I agree the current price tag is very limiting.

Hitting, on average, with 6 S5 AP -2 and 3 S8 AP -2 D3 shots isn't awful, really. 5 Destroyers and 1 HD costs almost exactly the same and hits with 7.77 S5 Ap -2 shot and (7/9) S9 AP 04 D6 shots a turn. It's firepower turns out to be pretty comparable to other options.

Taking the comparison further, you get 20 T8 3+ wounds with living metal versus 18 T5 3+ wounds with RP, which seems pretty equitable.

You also, of course, get all the utility previously mentioned. Actually, now that I've gone through that exercise, it seems pretty reasonably priced.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Boogles wrote:

Shadar_Logoth wrote:
Second, until you've taken at least 12 casualties on a 20 man blob, you're really not fearing the effects of moral at all.

If you lost 12 warriors, aren't you losing D6 + 2 warriors to morale?

Pretty sure it's 12 (casualties) - 10 (LD) + D6

Yeah, exactly, and you would need to roll a 6 to wipe.

My point is, until you are in fear of wiping completely, Warriors backed with a GA and Crypteks are extremely hardy.

Right now my list is looking like:

HQ [323pts]

Nemesor Zahndrekh [180pts]

Orikan the Diviner [143pts]

TROOPS [590pts]

Warriors x18 [216pts]

Warriors x17 [204pts]

Immortals x10 (Tesla) [170pts]

ELITES [671pts]

Lychguard x5 (Warscythe) [150pts]

Triarch Praetorians x10 (RoC) [350pts]

Triarch Stalker x1(Heat Ray) [171pts]

HEAVY SUPPORT [406pts]

Doomsday Ark [203pts]

Doomsday Ark [203pts]

TOTAL POINTS: 1990

The basic idea is put Zahndrekh and Orikan behind the Warriors and Immortals. The Lychguard would go behind the HQs to block from deep strike assault, and also the Guardian Protocols on the Lychguard would protect wounds on the HQs. One DDA behind the main line. The other DDA, Stalker, and Praetorians come up along the sides and grab objectives with their faster movement. This list provides pretty sizable infantry shot output to counter horde armies (which I feel are going to dominate the meta), provide a screen for our HQs, and also some solid heavy damage to take out a few enemy tanks. You get a Battleforged Battalion for some solid command points, and if somehow you whittled another HQ in there, you'd be able to grab yourself an extra Spearhead Detachment.

I'm going to have to disagree with people on the Monolith, yeah it's really expenisve, but it's done well in every game I've played it in

People see it and immediately start to target it, it's like a distraction Carnifex almost, just one that puts out 12 S5 and 6 S8 shots per turn.

I wouldn't say it's good but it's situational

Boogles wrote:

Shadar_Logoth wrote:
Second, until you've taken at least 12 casualties on a 20 man blob, you're really not fearing the effects of moral at all.

If you lost 12 warriors, aren't you losing D6 + 2 warriors to morale?

Pretty sure it's 12 (casualties) - 10 (LD) + D6

Moral states that for every unit, you "roll a dice and add the number of models from the unit that have been slain this turn... For each point that the test is failed by, one model in that unit must flee and is removed from play."

So, since our Warriors have a Leadership of 10, and a max dice roll is 6, we must lose 5 Warriors in the turn before a Moral Test can affect our unit. Once the unit has lost 10 Warriors in that turn, it will automatically lose at least 1 Warrior, and up to 6. Thus, for an opponent to guarantee on the 20-Warrior unit being wiped from Moral, they need to kill 15 Warriors:

15 (killed units) + 1 (minimum die roll) - 10 (leadership) = 6 fleeing models

which would remove the last 5 models. Betting the average Moral roll though, they would need to kill 13 models from the 20-Warrior unit:

13 (killed units) + 4 (average die roll) - 10 (leadership = 7 fleeing units.

Shadar_Logoth wrote:

The monolith is almost 400 points, has no invuln or QS, and 20 wounds. It has to sit a round before it can bring dudes up, and it's not hard to deal with by almost all armies. It is just simply not worth it.

I'm a little skeptic about the current iteration as well, but I'm not sure if it's not worth it, yet. It's volume of fire somewhat makes up for it's poor BS and the fact that it's a giant LOS blocker is one that people seem to completely over look, and have been for 5 editions now. That's arguably it's number 1 trait.

That being said, I agree the current price tag is very limiting.

Hitting, on average, with 6 S5 AP -2 and 3 S8 AP -2 D3 shots isn't awful, really. 5 Destroyers and 1 HD costs almost exactly the same and hits with 7.77 S5 Ap -2 shot and (7/9) S9 AP 04 D6 shots a turn. It's firepower turns out to be pretty comparable to other options.

Taking the comparison


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Boogles wrote:

Shadar_Logoth wrote:
Second, until you've taken at least 12 casualties on a 20 man blob, you're really not fearing the effects of moral at all.

If you lost 12 warriors, aren't you losing D6 + 2 warriors to morale?

Pretty sure it's 12 (casualties) - 10 (LD) + D6

Yeah, exactly, and you would need to roll a 6 to wipe.

My point is, until you are in fear of wiping completely, Warriors backed with a GA and Crypteks are extremely hardy.

You're assuming a lot. My point was that morale starts creating more casualties. This lessens durability and increases the likely hood of being wiped. Morale begins impacting at about 7 casualties.

20 t4 4+ models aren't very durable and aren't hard to wipe out with sustained fire. People realize that we don't get RP if they wipe out the unit, but I don't think they fully grasp how damaging that is to our army...... yet. They will.

Volume of fire is very necessary for crons. It's critical due to a lack of high strength shooting. Targeting warriors, or their support is an easy way to drastically decrease offensive capabilities.

Its all opinion. You think they'll do better than I do....i hope you're right, but I think you're wrong. Until we get some adjustments I think its going to be a little rough. I'm still going to play and have fun though