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Made in no
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




I'll repost my old math on this, from when the Bad Moons trait was first revealed:

Say you fire 60 shots at BS5

20 are hits. 10 shots are 1's. Reroll those.
That should net you an extra 3,33 hits.
So 23,33 hits. Half of those are 6's.
So 11,65 extra shots. Divide that by 3,nets you 3,88 extra hits.
Those 11.65 extra shots should also have another 1,94 1's in there. Reroll those for another 0.65 hits.

So you get 20+3.33+3.88+0.64 hits. for a total of 27.85 hits That's 46.4%
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Isn't a reroll a mutually exclusive event, and as such uses the calculation for compound math? Or does DDD change it up a little?

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






tneva82 wrote:
 G00fySmiley wrote:
 Vineheart01 wrote:
I mean, nothing stops that wave of bolters from shooting the grots first so they cant take the lascannon shots afterwords other than how "optimal" your opponent is trying to be and doesnt want to overkill something.
15 bolters should delete a 10man grot squad without even trying. But theres those people that dont want to overkill because its "wasteful" and will fire at the manz anyway - big mistake...


Provided the tabel has enough terrain and given how small grot models are one could keep them as much as possible between the manz and threats but out of LOS from major threats to them. IE in a vaccum or 1 dev squad and one tac squad. try and keep grots between the devs and manz while staying out of los of the tac marines. so sure... please choose to las cannon my grots and bolter my manz.


That's...Pretty custom terrain keeping in mind all the raised pistols and swords grots have. Raised arms knife is not THAT much shorter than meganob seeing tip of the knife is enough for whole squad to be seen.




depends on your gaming store or own table. in my area we use a lot of LOS blockign terrain as playing on planet bowling ball mean imperial soup is unbeatable. all terrain is tall enough or played as if it is tall enough to block LOS of any infantry model. think short pieces of stone wall and sandbags scattered, usually large enough to fit 5-10 models. from about 45 degrees on the opposite side of the board. additionally as I plan to run my MANZ it will be 2 5 man units in 2 BWs with 10 gretchen each. possibly with a painboy on bike keeping up.the BW assumign they do nto get blown up on the turn 2 when the orks disembark can also be used to block LOS as well.

10000 points 7000
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2000
 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Haven't seen it mentioned yet, but it looks like the double-choppa nob is dead (long live the big/little choppa nob)?

faq wrote:
Page 83
– Ork Wargear Lists, Battlewagon Equipment
Add the following sentence:
‘Each item can only be taken once.’
   
Made in gb
Norn Queen






Coh Magnussen wrote:
Haven't seen it mentioned yet, but it looks like the double-choppa nob is dead (long live the big/little choppa nob)?

faq wrote:
Page 83
– Ork Wargear Lists, Battlewagon Equipment
Add the following sentence:
‘Each item can only be taken once.’
I shall highlight the part you have missed. That's only for Battlewagons. In fact the FAQ explicitly allows double choppa.
Q: When a Nob replaces their slugga and choppa with items
from the Nob Weapons list, can they take two weapons from
the first list and one weapon from the second list, for a total of
three weapons (e.g. a big choppa, killsaw and a kombi-weapon
with skorcha)?
A: No. They can take two weapons in total, only one of
which can be from the second list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 21:16:09


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+++++There are currently ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY TWO (122) documents required to play Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
+++++List of "broken" RaW in Warhammer 40,000 8th edition+++++
Disclaimer: My YMDC answers are from a "What the rules, as written (or modified by Special Snowflake FAQ) in the rulebooks, actually say" perspective, not a "What I wish the rules said" perspective. Even GW agrees with me, send an email to 40kfaq@gwplc.com for a confirmation reply "4. Apply The Rules As Written. If you still don’t have a satisfactory answer, use the rule just as it is written if you possibly can, even if you are not completely happy with the effect the rule has."
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Made in us
[DCM]
Probably Drunk




Colorado Springs

Don't kill my 10 Nob mobs each with a killkannon dreams.
   
Made in us
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw





Nebraska, USA

Yeah nothing is stopping nobz from chopchopping it up. It was there to prevent you from taking a kombi weapon as its own freebie slot instead of replacing one of those choppas.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

9000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
4000pts Admech/Knights 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

If a nob could carry a killkannon, he totally would.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





 G00fySmiley wrote:

depends on your gaming store or own table. in my area we use a lot of LOS blockign terrain as playing on planet bowling ball mean imperial soup is unbeatable. all terrain is tall enough or played as if it is tall enough to block LOS of any infantry model. think short pieces of stone wall and sandbags scattered, usually large enough to fit 5-10 models. from about 45 degrees on the opposite side of the board. additionally as I plan to run my MANZ it will be 2 5 man units in 2 BWs with 10 gretchen each. possibly with a painboy on bike keeping up.the BW assumign they do nto get blown up on the turn 2 when the orks disembark can also be used to block LOS as well.


But tall enough to LOS block every raised knife tip of grot without blocking MAN as wwell?

Also battlewagon has wheels with hollow hole in the bottom. That means it's very hard to prevent from feet of enemy drawing line to feet of your MAN/grot...

Grabbing grot and MAN from my collection and measuring...Needs to be over 4cm(hide grot) and less than 5cm(if it's bigger than that MAN is blocked as well).

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/16/tneva82-goblins-humans-and-elves/ <- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in es
Fresh-Faced New User




DDD + reroll 1 ->> hiting in 5+ is 45,37%

(2/6) [hitting on 5+] + (1/6*2/6) [reroll again with dakkadakka] + (1/6*2/6) [First 1 rerolled] + (1/6*1/6*2/6) [1 of dakkdakka rerolled]


Passed probability I and II last year, very easy done with a tree diagram


EDIT: With more dakka stratagem, rerolling 1, 5 and 6 --> 51.85%, I don't see any kind of fire power here tbh

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/19 21:40:49


8th Codex Orks 1500p: 3-1-0 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Good faq ....
to be fair I think this faq was good because a lot of us sent feeedback quickly to the rules team.

I’m fairly positive they only look at faq submissions during the first work week after the codex drops!

I’m also waiting for chapter approved to mess with both the Index and forgeworld points.

Overall orks are a decent codex and I think the scrapjet is The best buggy (and it’s purposefully 1 big shoota).
   
Made in no
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




Kebabcito wrote:
DDD + reroll 1 ->> hiting in 5+ is 45,37%

(2/6) [hitting on 5+] + (1/6*2/6) [reroll again with dakkadakka] + (1/6*2/6) [First 1 rerolled] + (1/6*1/6*2/6) [1 of dakkdakka rerolled]


Passed probability I and II last year, very easy done with a tree diagram


EDIT: With more dakka stratagem, rerolling 1, 5 and 6 --> 51.85%, I don't see any kind of fire power here tbh

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. You have not accounted for the fact that the 1's you reroll on the DDD shots. The correct answer is 46.45%

EDIT: And 54% with more dakka, bad moons and DDD

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 21:48:44


 
   
Made in us
Wicked Warp Spider





 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
If a nob could carry a killkannon, he totally would.

Badrukk for sure tries hard enough.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/19 21:57:01


Generic characters disappearing? Elite units of your army losing options and customizations? No longer finding that motivation to convert?
Your army could suffer Post-Chapterhouse Stress Disorder (PCSD)! If you think that your army is suffering one or more of the aforementioned symptoms, call us at 789-666-1982 for a quick diagnosis! 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Thinking on a list to best use now confirmed freebootas kulture with KMK's. I'll run a unit of 5 under a deathskulls KFF mek w/fixer uperz relic, since the unit(s) will have a huge target on their back's. Now what do I buff them with? Tankbustas could run up in trucks and shoot open topped with 4+ BS and re-roll but is this better than them being bad moon's shooting twice? (mobed up even more so) I could see Lootas doing well with a good number of shots roll and BS 4+, but again, is badmoons better? been also liking the idea of alot of warbikes (12+) rolling up and shooting with 4+ BS DDD and 6 shots each, would be very good against other horde armies... my god....

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2018/11/19 23:25:01


 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

Apparently badmoons only hit 46.5% of the time, whereas Freebootas hit 50% of the time.
However, you need to proc the Freeboota effect first, whereas Bad Moons always get it.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in es
Fresh-Faced New User




PiñaColada wrote:
Kebabcito wrote:
DDD + reroll 1 ->> hiting in 5+ is 45,37%

(2/6) [hitting on 5+] + (1/6*2/6) [reroll again with dakkadakka] + (1/6*2/6) [First 1 rerolled] + (1/6*1/6*2/6) [1 of dakkdakka rerolled]


Passed probability I and II last year, very easy done with a tree diagram


EDIT: With more dakka stratagem, rerolling 1, 5 and 6 --> 51.85%, I don't see any kind of fire power here tbh

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. You have not accounted for the fact that the 1's you reroll on the DDD shots. The correct answer is 46.45%

EDIT: And 54% with more dakka, bad moons and DDD

What do you think (1/6)*(1/6)*(2/6) is?
1/6 chance to DDD * 1/6 chance to get a 1 * 2/6 chance to get a 5 or 6.

Its 45.37.

EDIT: Did it again to make sure every branch is done, is 0,4537037037 100%.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/11/19 22:26:47


8th Codex Orks 1500p: 3-1-0 
   
Made in si
Steady Stonecleaver







 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Apparently badmoons only hit 46.5% of the time, whereas Freebootas hit 50% of the time.
However, you need to proc the Freeboota effect first, whereas Bad Moons always get it.


Surely Freebootas hit even more than that, it's 50% before even counting DDD.

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40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

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Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

 lord_blackfang wrote:
 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Apparently badmoons only hit 46.5% of the time, whereas Freebootas hit 50% of the time.
However, you need to proc the Freeboota effect first, whereas Bad Moons always get it.


Surely Freebootas hit even more than that, it's 50% before even counting DDD.


Well, yes they do have DDD which gives a bit more hits.
I have no idea how to calculate that though. Perhaps I should have added a "without DDD" clause, because that does change the math a little.

Either way, Freebooters will hit more than Bad Moons if they get their buff procced.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 22:29:07


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in es
Fresh-Faced New User




Never played freeboters, I'm Reading they go +1, meaning 4+.

3/6 first roll + 1/6*3/6 for dakka = 0.5833333

The point is, you do not have always this buff.

8th Codex Orks 1500p: 3-1-0 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

It really boils down to how much you want Flash Gitz in your army

If you don't have Flash Gitz, go bad moons.
If you do have Flash Gitz, go Freebootas because that's the only Kulture they can use, and putting them in a Bad Moons army would be a waste.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 22:37:50


What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Squishy Squig





 Quackzo wrote:


I made a thread on r/orks with all the shooting probability just prior to the codex release. I've been meaning to revisit it and account for how it would work for Deathskullz (it's a bit more nuanced and involved), and take a look at charging probability. I was going to post all of that here when I had that resolved but might of forgotten to finish the job.
If you want the tl;dr version so you don't have to read the post I made: a bad moonz unit with BS5+ gets you 0.465 expected hits with DDD and 0.54 expected hits with More Dakka. Tankbustas get 0.71 expected hits with DDD and 0.864 expected hits with More Dakka, when targeting a vehicle.


Thank you, and thanks all whom answered.
   
Made in es
Fresh-Faced New User




Jesus, with freebota klan and gun-crazy showoffs, free gitz goes 90.74% hit ratio

8th Codex Orks 1500p: 3-1-0 
   
Made in nl
Been Around the Block




So with the new faq, I guess positioning your mek guns is really important. Since the wording on the fb kultur implies that the 24inch is from the unit that destoyed the enemy and not the enemy itself. Am I correct here?
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Sadly there's no mention of Kustom Shootas or Shootas for our nobs in green. Gamesworkshop please.
   
Made in no
Growlin' Guntrukk Driver with Killacannon




Kebabcito wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Kebabcito wrote:
DDD + reroll 1 ->> hiting in 5+ is 45,37%

(2/6) [hitting on 5+] + (1/6*2/6) [reroll again with dakkadakka] + (1/6*2/6) [First 1 rerolled] + (1/6*1/6*2/6) [1 of dakkdakka rerolled]


Passed probability I and II last year, very easy done with a tree diagram


EDIT: With more dakka stratagem, rerolling 1, 5 and 6 --> 51.85%, I don't see any kind of fire power here tbh

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. You have not accounted for the fact that the 1's you reroll on the DDD shots. The correct answer is 46.45%

EDIT: And 54% with more dakka, bad moons and DDD

What do you think (1/6)*(1/6)*(2/6) is?
1/6 chance to DDD * 1/6 chance to get a 1 * 2/6 chance to get a 5 or 6.

Its 45.37.

EDIT: Did it again to make sure every branch is done, is 0,4537037037 100%.
Yeah, but you're doing it in the wrong order. You're rolling the DDD before rerolling the 1's.

The order should be Shots->Reroll 1's->DDD->Reroll 1's

EDIT: Fixed the quote

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 23:07:00


 
   
Made in es
Fresh-Faced New User




PiñaColada wrote:
Kebabcito wrote:
PiñaColada wrote:
Kebabcito wrote:
DDD + reroll 1 ->> hiting in 5+ is 45,37%

(2/6) [hitting on 5+] + (1/6*2/6) [reroll again with dakkadakka] + (1/6*2/6) [First 1 rerolled] + (1/6*1/6*2/6) [1 of dakkdakka rerolled]


Passed probability I and II last year, very easy done with a tree diagram


EDIT: With more dakka stratagem, rerolling 1, 5 and 6 --> 51.85%, I don't see any kind of fire power here tbh

I'm sorry but you're just wrong. You have not accounted for the fact that the 1's you reroll on the DDD shots. The correct answer is 46.45%

EDIT: And 54% with more dakka, bad moons and DDD

What do you think (1/6)*(1/6)*(2/6) is?
1/6 chance to DDD * 1/6 chance to get a 1 * 2/6 chance to get a 5 or 6.

Its 45.37.

EDIT: Did it again to make sure every branch is done, is 0,4537037037 100%.
Yeah, but you're doing it in the wrong order. You're rolling the DDD before rerolling the 1's.

The order should be Shots->Reroll 1's->DDD->Reroll 1's

EDIT: Fixed the quote

IF that's the order, then my ecuation is not finished, didn't know you can reroll dice 2 times, a point for you then


The result is what i said before + 1/6*1/6*2/6 + 1/6*1/6*1/6*2/6

Result, 0,46459

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/19 23:30:04


8th Codex Orks 1500p: 3-1-0 
   
Made in fr
Trazyn's Museum Curator





on the forum. Obviously

DDD is a special case, as you aren't actually rerolling twice. You are generating another hit, which maybe rerolled as its technically not the same dice.

What I have
~4100
~1660
: LM

Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!

A longbeard when it comes to Necrons and WHFB. Grumble Grumble

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




DDD just acts a 7/6 buff to hit.
So does rerolling 1s to hit, but it compounds as you get this buff on all the original rolls and any DDD generated rolls.
So 1/3*7/6*7/6=45.37%.

Freebooterz with their buff activated and DDD go to 58.333%.

Since Mek Guns activate the buff I'd suspect shooty lists want to go Freebooterz over Bad Moons, even though the Bad Moons can catch up to some extent with the shooting twice stratagem.
   
Made in gb
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'






tneva82 wrote:
5 lootas is too few. If you go for lootas you go for 15 or none. When you have 15 of them they can literally one shot Magnus if you go first and there's pretty much nothing Tzeentch CAN do to stop it as you can always da jump them to new position(without interfering your hit chance) if Magnus has initially out of LOS.

However with 5 lootas strategems are too inefficient to be worth it. Without strategems mek guns pack better punch. With 15 lootas though you can pinpoint 30 S7 -1 D2 hits anywhere you want. With same point smasha guns you would get 11 hits which isn't as much of a punch against several targets. Of course against targets where better AP is more of a thing smasha gun helps.

edit: And yes I know that's lots of CP's(4 to be specific) so isn't best options always. But I'm just saying if you take bad moon lootas you take them in big and with intention of using those cp's as without cp's the unit kind of loses it's point. If you don't want to use cp(though more dakka can be situationally be dropped. It's not automatic) because you feel they are better off elsewhere then clearly no lootas to the army!

If you're going to be dumping that many CP into an alpha-strike, might as well use mob up to get them into a block of 25. Of course, you can also re-roll the number of shots if you only get 1, so the average is more like two and a third shots per loota, or around 58 shots ( before dakka, dakka, dakka!) for a big block of them. That might actually be enough dakka.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/11/20 00:02:59


   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Ok, no point in mob up since all units get the +1 so I figure the best way to abuse the free-bootas kulture is to have as many good sized, shooting focused, units benefiting from the +1 to hit as possible in one phase. With the KMK's hopefully focus firing first and killing at least one unit, I now have 15 lootas, 20 tank bustas, 14 warbikes(2 with kustom shootas), and deff-killa all buffed on turn one... That, with everything T5 - 6 and/or back line under 5++ behind grots makes each unit a decent threat and hard to kill.

- 1,999 points orks - 15 CP

- Battalion detachment - + 5 CP (free-bootas) -
- HQ-
- DeffKilla War-trike - 120 pts
(Warlord/brutal but kunnin)
- Warboss on bike - 86 pts - PK/KS - 15 pts
(Killa-klaw)
- Big Mek on Bike - 81 pts - KFF/KS - 22 pts
- Troop -
- Grechin x 10 - 30 pts
- Grechin x 10 - 30 pts
- Grechin x 10 - 30 pts
- Elite -
- Tankbustas x 10 - 170 pts - 2 x Squigs - 20 pts
- Tankbustas x 10 - 170 pts - 2 x Squigs - 20 pts
- Fast Attack -
- Warbikers x 12 - 276 pts - Nob BC - 5 pts
- Heavy -
- KMK's x 5 - 300 pts
- Lootas x 15 - 255 pts
- Transports -
- Trucks - 59 pts - Rokit - 12 pts
- Trucks - 59 pts - Rokit - 12 pts
- Battalion detachment - + 5 CP (Deathskullz) -
- HQ -
- Lv 2 Weird boy - 62 pts
(Da-Jump/Fist of gork)
- Big mek - 55 pts - KFF - 20 pts
(da fixer uperz)
- Troop -
- Grechin x 10 - 30 pts
- Grechin x 10 - 30 pts
- Grechin x 10 - 30 pts

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/11/20 00:20:23


 
   
 
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