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2017/06/03 18:19:27
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Can't you just take a Commander and 6 Infantry squads in a Battalion. Then another Battalion of the same.
Why try and fit it all in a Brigade when you can just spam battlions and take about 24 troop choices. Each battalion is like 300pts if you just take a commander, Commisar and 6 Infantry squads. So 24 Infantry squads with commander is just over 1200pts and you get +12CP in the process.
This leaves you with around 800pts to fill your 12 heavy, elite and fast slots.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/03 18:22:05
2017/06/03 18:21:09
Subject: Re:40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Or... hey, hold on: you could take a supreme command detachment to field 5 of thos lost commanders AND a spearhead detachment to field the remaining heavy support units. WOW!
Or you could take multiple detachments. Or you could ask people whether or not it can be done rather than clog half a page in a discussion about news talking about your grudges rather than doing so in the discussion forum.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/03 18:22:45
2017/06/03 18:23:04
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Just read Atia's stuff on the the novel. (thanks for the whole coverage for 8th! )
Spoiler:
Surprised that RG hates the Primaris, I thought they were his pride and joy, looks like just Cawl's.
Kinda sad that the Emperor seems to have lost all of his humanity. I know sitting in a chair for 10,000 years will be a bit boring but if I was an Imperial citizen, I would be devastated to know that 'spark' has vanished from the one true leader of humanity.
Fury from faith
Faith in fury
Numquam solus ambulabis
2017/06/03 18:27:42
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
I'm going to be honest here as a horde IG player. The new IG setup sucks. Yes, Wyverns and Basilisks that I love have a huge improvement, but That is nothing when I cannot field my Army the way it is intended to be fielded (like GW said you'd be able to do)
So the new IG rules do NOT include Platoons as a troop choice, only Squads. What was so horrible to give IG their horde capability? I thought this new system was going to allow us to play as we wished and maintain the integrity of the formations. Now my 300 IG Valhallans cannot take the field even in a Brigade Formation since that only covers a total of 200 units IF I use Troops AND Veterans.
So my Infantry that looks like this....
3x Company Command Squads (15 models)
1x Yarrick (1 model)
1x Master of Ordinance (1 Model)
3x Primaris Psykers (3 Models)
3x Tech Priests (3 Models)
1x Commisar (1 Model)
6x Platoons (That include)
6x Platoon Command Squads (30 Models)
21x Squads (210 Models)
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Teams (9 models)
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Teams (6 models)
1x Las Cannon Heavy Weapons Team (3 models)
1x Special weapons team (6 models)
1x Tempestus Command Squad (5 models)
2x Tempestus Scion Squads (20 models)
=3 HQs, 6 Troops, 1 Elite (313 models) (this leaves my fast attack and heavy support alone for my Artillery support). BTW all my normal squads are equiped with a heavy weapons team as well.
4 HQs, 12 Troops, 8 Elites (204 models, loss of specialized units) (I can take Heavy weapons teams but lose my artillery support entirely IF I want my command points, so I lose out just to field my normal list)
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Is there any reason you can't spread your guys out across multiple detachments, rake it extra Command Points and be sitting pretty? Or is there something about this I am missing?
I am not all that familiar with IG (and I admit, I switched off a bit when the WHTV guys were talking about them in the sample games) but they did definitely mention some huge Command Point totals.
Blah, blah, blah, Mister Freeman.
2017/06/03 18:42:28
Subject: Re:40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Primaris Tank stats? / Starter Pre-orders (all info in OP)
- ruin 40k fluff (ultra ultra moronis marines)
- ruin 40k artwork (majority being the soulless, characterless cgi crap)
- ruin the look of minis (more and more busy/ cartoonish/ awful sculpts)
- ruin the rules (removing depth from the already shallow rules)
- ruin whfb (to say the least heh)
but someow they get a pass here? Disagree with the above if you want but you have to agree that a few years back, GW would be torn to bits for the changes like 8th edition brings. People were bashing them mercilessly because of Matt Ward, well Ward was nothing compared to girlyman riding moronis marines to victory, the latter is Marvel superhero level of crap. Are we happy there's hope now in 40k, was it too bleak and depressing?
Or is it because they "listen" now? Because they seem to be listening to the wrong people and imo this GW is magnitudes worse than the old, silent one.
I think most of the people who would have ripped into GW in the past have already left the building. That's why their sales are down year on year. 8th edition isn't meant for them, it's meant to attract new people in to replace them. It also need to attract new players in to replace all the ones it's going to drive away. I know looking at the new models I have no interest in super space marines or out of scale nurgle marines.
I'll save final judgement on the rules until I've played a demo or too, but nothing I've read have given me anything to get excited about.
Over the last month or so all these leaks have been coming out I know my interest for the game has all but disappeared after 23 years. However the recent FW announcement has made me think maybe focusing on 30K (and ignoring the horrible things they have done to the 40K fluff) will fill the void.
£250 for the limited edition, who the hell is buying that. That's basically a warhound titans body for emperors sake.
Yes, when I saw moronis marines, I thougt here's space marine for a Halo/ Starcraft crowd. Seeing the dread/ repulsor, I'm not that sure anymore heh.
I don't think the moronis marines models are bad, it's just the fluff that only a heavy retcon can fix. Also, imo they will look stupid on the table because of their size, current infantry models are already too big imo, bordering on toyish at times.
I'll check the ruleset as well, being the simpleton it is and assuming it's better balanced, it might be easier to houserule.
ERJAK wrote:GW sales have been up for 2 quarters now, probably because the vast majority of people are liking what they've been doing I would expect to see some pretty solid numbers for the foreseeable future as they're doing a much better job of attracting new players and getting older players interested again. As for people not 'ripping into' GW, H.B.M.C., tneva, seandrake, streetsamurai and oni should be deeply offended.
I'm talking about the well deserved, massive disdain. That a few fine gentlemen manage to keep the clear mind and save the forum's honour, doesn't mean that the overall mood isn't that of emthusiasm and anticipation. Does this edition deserve it, not at all in my opinion.
They released a few good boardgames and a lot of kits people wanted, so yeah sales might be ok. They sure are riding that wave of good will it created though.
Primaris marines are objectively superior models to normal space marines(seriously, even Calth marines look like lopsided dog crap in comparison.) and are very conservative in their adornments so I don't get what the ptoblem is there. The new art is w/e, old 40k art looked like john blanche drew his dreams after watching nothing but pornos and 'The Thing' for a week straight. Not better or worse, just different. As for the fluff? Meh, it's weird that people get upset about stuff like this. It's totally banal, 'oh they had a weapon and then they made a better weapon' I mean it's a bit weird for 40k but with all the other monumentus crap that's been happening not totally beyond the realm of possibility.
Fluff is awful also because of ultra Rowboat ex machina, it's quite frankly embarassing to read and imagine.
Artwork, not only old art but even 5/6 edition art is million times better than iphone game loading screen level filler of 7th and AoS.
Models are ok but too big, boring in multiples (looking forward to seeing them with beaky/ vadery helmets though tbh) and surely their tanks are anything but conservative heh. They are better proportioned but not as much better imo, anyway it's still wasted becase of the stupid size.
The rules for 8th are MASSIVELY superior and they removed unnecessary complexity not depth, it's as deep as it's ever been and it's fun again for the first time since the Eldar Codex dropped. I played a game yesterday and it feels almost exactly the same except we got a 3 player 1500 point each game done in less than 2 hours and at no point did anyone, despite having WILDLY different armies (triple knight, hodgepodge eldar, Sisters) did anyone feel like they were totally out of the running.
They removed complexity and depth, from a game already bordering on shallow.
What happened to WHFB was awful but AoS has evolved into a pretty great game all things considered. Sure having both would be better but sometimes gak happens.
I'm actualy quite grateful for GW for it. Seeing that awful new art in whfb army book could be traumatising, not to mention sigmarines in the old world, brrrr. Thank you, thank you GW, no sarcasm.
If you don't like it that's fine, but it has more to do with you not getting what you wanted out of it than any objective measure of quality.
I had zero expectations and am looking at it completly cold. Objective measures of quality, how about the depth of the game and where is it in 8th. They should have reduced useless compexity but add depth to core mechanics, but didn't.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/03 18:45:49
From the initial Age of Sigmar news thread, when its "feature" list was first confirmed:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's like a train wreck. But one made from two circus trains colliding.
A collosal, terrible, flaming, hysterical train wreck with burning clowns running around spraying it with seltzer bottles while ring masters cry out how everything is fine and we should all come in while the dancing elephants lurch around leaving trails of blood behind them.
How could I look away?
2017/06/03 18:59:47
Subject: Re:40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
unmercifulconker wrote: Just read Atia's stuff on the the novel. (thanks for the whole coverage for 8th! )
Spoiler:
Surprised that RG hates the Primaris, I thought they were his pride and joy, looks like just Cawl's.
Kinda sad that the Emperor seems to have lost all of his humanity. I know sitting in a chair for 10,000 years will be a bit boring but if I was an Imperial citizen, I would be devastated to know that 'spark' has vanished from the one true leader of humanity.
Wow, the spoilers have recover my faith completely in the Primaris narrative.
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/06/03 19:04:58
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
It's everywhere and you don't see it because ypu choose not to. Even just the changes to deepstrike and disembark have huge impact on the strategic aspects of the game.
Different strokes and all that, I personally thought 90% of WHFB art looked like it was done in crayon.
They added depth while removing complexity, which is what you generally want to go for.
Again, don't really agree, turns out stuff like that is subjective. Who knew? And what do you mean 'too big?' That's not a thing. They're space marine size, compared to current 'moderately tall dude' size.
And finally, blindly hating something forever isn't honorable, intelligent, or mature. GW in the past has done some cartoon supervillain crap and we should absolutely hold them accountable for that. But lately GW has seemed to be moving forward and becoming NOT a moustache-twirling parody of corporate culture and supporting those initiatives isn't any more wrong than looking at GW's past behavoir, looking at their current behavoir, and determining it's not good enough.
What you've done is laid judgement and determined that anyone who doesn't agree must be in some way inferior to you. Well I'm going to say that I do understand why you would hate GW, I get liking older art and fluff more (mostly because I don't like most of it and you clearly do so again, subjective!), dismissing the edition as 'shallow' without playing is silly but I think that's more symptomatic than anything, and that I disagree with your thesis and find your evidence to be insufficient to convince me you are correct. And since my position has mostly been to refute rather than convince I think we can safely end the whole wall of text thing in a typical internet stalemate.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have Sisters of Battle I need to paint for all the awesome games of 8th we're going to have in 2 weeks.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/06/03 19:07:14
2017/06/03 19:11:10
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
GI_Redshirt wrote: Not sure if anyone else noticed this yet, but the FW Xenos index is listed on their Aussie site as coming soon, and one of the preview images is the table of contents for the book, showing what units are listed in it. It all looked pretty much as expected, with two notable exceptions.
1. We finally have a model with no new rules for 8th. The XV89 Crisis Suit is gone. It's not listed for Tau in the ToC. Both the XV81 and XV84 are as seperate Commander entries, but the XV89 is notably absent. Unless it got reworked into a general Crisis upgrade and is just listed under wargear options for the army (though that would still beg the question as to why it didn't rate a new unit page while the other two did), this guy's on his way out. The model is still available for purchase on the Aussie site at the time that I'm writing this. Hopefully this is a misprint or something or the rules for him are coming in the new IA book coming out, but if you like the model, you may want to jump on and order one as they may not be around much longer.
It's not a typo but a continuation of an older change. The 2nd edition of IA3 Taros got rid of the xv89 as well and iirc in the fluff says that the program was discontinued and the existing suits changed back to regular ones. In the 7th ed Tau codex, the iridium suit upgrade effectively takes its place in the rules.
2017/06/03 20:13:01
Subject: Re:40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Hive City Dweller wrote: Took the plunge and bought the starter set for the rulebook and sweet nurgly goodness.
I know it's probably just rumors at this point but do we have solid leads on when the rest of the Death Guard release will be coming?
Probably after the primaris marines codex, which is probably coming in july. The redemptor and grav primus stuff will be out before any DG. I'm not sure if there will be any AoS between the primus marines and death guard though.
Not if what was said at warhammer fest was true. All books will be out by end of July according to what was said. Primaris and death guard will be out fairly fast after initial box drops
2017/06/03 20:19:20
Subject: Re:40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
-Gamers Bundle (core rulebook, wound trackers, command dice, tactical cards, combat gage and objective markers)
-an extra wound tracker set
-an extra command dice set
-Imperium Index 1 Space Marines (for my Raven Guard, and my friends Dark Angels)
-Imperium Index 2 (starting a Gaunt's Ghost and Inquisition Warbands for SW:A, the index will let me expand them into armies if I feel like it).
-Xenos Index 2 (for my friend's Tau, and because I fancy trying out Tau or Tyranids myself one day).
2017/06/03 20:21:05
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
It's everywhere and you don't see it because ypu choose not to. Even just the changes to deepstrike and disembark have huge impact on the strategic aspects of the game.
Different strokes and all that, I personally thought 90% of WHFB art looked like it was done in crayon.
They added depth while removing complexity, which is what you generally want to go for.
Again, don't really agree, turns out stuff like that is subjective. Who knew? And what do you mean 'too big?' That's not a thing. They're space marine size, compared to current 'moderately tall dude' size.
And finally, blindly hating something forever isn't honorable, intelligent, or mature. GW in the past has done some cartoon supervillain crap and we should absolutely hold them accountable for that. But lately GW has seemed to be moving forward and becoming NOT a moustache-twirling parody of corporate culture and supporting those initiatives isn't any more wrong than looking at GW's past behavoir, looking at their current behavoir, and determining it's not good enough.
What you've done is laid judgement and determined that anyone who doesn't agree must be in some way inferior to you. Well I'm going to say that I do understand why you would hate GW, I get liking older art and fluff more (mostly because I don't like most of it and you clearly do so again, subjective!), dismissing the edition as 'shallow' without playing is silly but I think that's more symptomatic than anything, and that I disagree with your thesis and find your evidence to be insufficient to convince me you are correct. And since my position has mostly been to refute rather than convince I think we can safely end the whole wall of text thing in a typical internet stalemate.
Now if you'll excuse me, I have Sisters of Battle I need to paint for all the awesome games of 8th we're going to have in 2 weeks.
I want to take the time to thank you for the time and effort you put into the above post; you have clearly framed much of what I have not had the time or patience to put to 'paper' today and with disarming politeness too, which I fear I would not have managed at all. Thank you and have an exalt!
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
2017/06/03 20:23:16
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Has there been any confirmation as to what rules GW will provide online?
For AOS they have the 4-page core ruleset and stats for individual units freely available. I was hoping similar pdfs (core + datasheets) would be up for 40K today but can't find them. I seem to recall the SWA pdf was up during pre-orders ... are they just waiting until release day to make them available for 40K? Thanks!
2017/06/03 20:27:14
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
blckorder wrote: Has there been any confirmation as to what rules GW will provide online?
For AOS they have the 4-page core ruleset and stats for individual units freely available. I was hoping similar pdfs (core + datasheets) would be up for 40K today but can't find them. I seem to recall the SWA pdf was up during pre-orders ... are they just waiting until release day to make them available for 40K? Thanks!
Just rules. Nothing indicates datasheets being available for free.
2017/06/03 20:40:43
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
2017/06/03 20:56:38
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
MLaw wrote: Just ordered the boxed game and 4 indexes on TheWarstore for like $230.. what have I done
Even with the crisis in Spain today my FLGS has earn like 6.000€ in Preorders
(250€ are mine )
Drobbit reached the five digits, they had a big whale buy two limited editions. (amongst other things) We were aghast as our wallets shrivelled in shame.
2017/06/03 20:56:58
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
MLaw wrote: Just ordered the boxed game and 4 indexes on TheWarstore for like $230.. what have I done
Even with the crisis in Spain today my FLGS has earn like 6.000€ in Preorders
(250€ are mine )
I think Frontline Gaming is my FLGS but I have not been there since we moved back to San Diego.. don't really even know where it is. Are the stores running demos of the new rules yet?
EDIT: I Was also disappointed that FW doesn't have the Xenos Index available (or they didn't when I looked). I've got loads of Ork goodies I really need stats for.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/03 20:58:08
Guimuss wrote: IG players, bend over and take it up the rear for another edition!
I'm going to be honest here as a horde IG player. The new IG setup sucks. Yes, Wyverns and Basilisks that I love have a huge improvement, but That is nothing when I cannot field my Army the way it is intended to be fielded (like GW said you'd be able to do)
So the new IG rules do NOT include Platoons as a troop choice, only Squads. What was so horrible to give IG their horde capability? I thought this new system was going to allow us to play as we wished and maintain the integrity of the formations. Now my 300 IG Valhallans cannot take the field even in a Brigade Formation since that only covers a total of 200 units IF I use Troops AND Veterans.
So my Infantry that looks like this....
3x Company Command Squads (15 models)
1x Yarrick (1 model)
1x Master of Ordinance (1 Model)
3x Primaris Psykers (3 Models)
3x Tech Priests (3 Models)
1x Commisar (1 Model)
6x Platoons (That include)
6x Platoon Command Squads (30 Models)
21x Squads (210 Models)
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Teams (9 models)
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Teams (6 models)
1x Las Cannon Heavy Weapons Team (3 models)
1x Special weapons team (6 models)
1x Tempestus Command Squad (5 models)
2x Tempestus Scion Squads (20 models)
=3 HQs, 6 Troops, 1 Elite (313 models) (this leaves my fast attack and heavy support alone for my Artillery support). BTW all my normal squads are equiped with a heavy weapons team as well.
4 HQs, 12 Troops, 8 Elites (204 models, loss of specialized units) (I can take Heavy weapons teams but lose my artillery support entirely IF I want my command points, so I lose out just to field my normal list)
What I lose
6x Platoon Leaders
1x Master of Ordinance
1x Commisar
3x Tech Priests
3x Primaris Psychers
3x Mortar Heavy Weapons Squads
2x Rocket Heavy Weapons Squads
1x Lascannon Heavy Weapons Squad
1x Special Weapons Squad
1x Tempestus Command Squad
2x Tempestus Scion Squads
So I've gained nothing and lost a crap ton of capabilities. No orders from platoon leaders, no tech priest repairs, no orbital strikes from the MOO, no psychic powers, no heavy weapons specific teams, no infantry Army that can do anything just be a wall of meat, that has no punch, or I take away my 8 elites and love almost half my horde to give myself slots for 1 guy. "Oh, yes I'll take away they vet squad for the Platoon commander, he can give my lasguns double the shot" NO, if you take another squad instead you already get the double the shots AND with them being vets you get better BS. Stupid GW, just stupid. So lets talk about how this effects us IG hordes, a very endangered Army now.
Platoon Leaders have always been a part of their units with not the loss of an entire slot for one gakky leader (and lets be honest the platoon leader is a gakky leader). Also the platoon leader is NOT worth 1 elite slot that can be filled by a number of more capable units, tempestus, ogryns, or even veterans!! Next, why do infantry platoons not include a collection of normal and specialized squads, just as they are today? Games workshop went ahead and fixed split fire and other basic "This is what they'd really do" rules, then why did they not keep the ones that they had right. Platoons have multiple squads and a heavy weapons squad (team, for warhammer) for specific reasons, so why drop in and force you to lose a tank slot for it?
Going forward with heavy weapons teams, why the hell would I take a heavy weapons team as a heavy weapons choice over a Leman Russ, or mortars over a Wyvern? They don't even come close to comparing and force IG to play more vehicle based which is something we should not have to be pigeon holed into. Lets take this into 2nd grader thinking, you can take 1, yes 1 heavy weapons team with 3 heavy weapons choice OR, you can take 1-3, yes up to 3! Leman Russ tanks, each being able to be equiped with up to 4 weapons. Which one would you rather fill that slot with? I know some people will be like "Well if you don't have enough points you just take the Heavy Weapons team and your still good cause it gives you options for smaller point values" ummmmm, no. Not at all. In the entire game up till now I would just NOT take the heavy weapons choice and add the heavy weapons team into my infantry platoon. No difference, I sitll have my Heavy weapons team. All this does is cause me to lose a VERY important slot now, or in my case I've lost 5 slots as stated in the next paragraph.
Lastly I have a total of 3 mortar heavy weapons teams, 2 rocket launcher heavy weapons teams, a lascannon heavy weapons team, 3 Wyverns, 3 Basilisks, and 1 Leman Russ. So my now 9 heavy weapons units DON'T fit your stupid BRIGADE Formation, which ONLY allows for up to 5, what Brigade can't fit that gak? In the old rules ALL my heavy weapons squads were part of a platoon, AS THEY SHOULD BE!!! And I could fit my vehicles into 3 heavy weapons slots. Makes sense, infantry support units go with the infantry and the heavy tanks do what they should and stay in heavy support. So thanks for fething everything up for anyone who cannot play IG as it was made to be played as a horde infantry Army cause it fething doesn't work.
Sorry for the rant but i'm pretty pissed if you couldn't tell
So the last think I have to say is I have about 100 Valhallan models that GW can buy back from me for making them obsolete, With inflation and Markup they can take them back for $20 each.
Nothing competes for slots, use more detachments. You have lost nothing in regards to fielding your army.
Platoon commanders still get voice of command, if anything they're better now because they get the same orders as a commander, and you can use any vox caster that happens to be nearby. As for why you'd ever use a heavy weapon squad over a leman russ, how about because a heavy weapon squad with 3 lascannons is a mere 72 points now? And a Leman Russ is 130 plus weapons.
edit - 72pts not 64
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/03 21:25:22
Dead account, no takesy-backsies
2017/06/03 21:22:42
Subject: 40k New Edition Summary - 3rd June 17: Starter Pre-orders/FW Index Contents (all info in OP)
Yeah, theres Detachments that literally have no troop requirements. I think this is the edition with most freedom to make the armies that you like and still be battleforged.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/06/03 21:27:34
Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.
ERJAK wrote: Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.
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<Dynasty> 
War Coven of the Coruscating Gaze 
~3000pts
Thrice-Damned Plague Corps 
~3250pts