Footslogging Ork Tactica

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**yakface**

I've posted this tactica before in other threads as a way of giving my advice. However, since I've taken the time to give it a quick bit of editing, I figured I'd post it in its own thread so it'll be easier to search for in the future (should anyone want to find it).

I also may end up submitting this as a Dakka article, so all comments and criticisms will be helpful towards getting me to a good final product.

Thanks for reading!

THE FOOTSLOGGING ORK MINI-TACTICA

A quick disclaimer about what this tactica doesn’t cover: Kult of Speed armies, Feral Orks armies, the Chapter Approved Ork Clan rules and using Orks (of any kind) in Cities of Death games. While I may touch on some of these subjects from time to time, the focus of this tactica is one thing only: How to play with regular ‘ole footslogging Orks from the Ork codex.

INTRODUCTION

Two big questions always hovering around footslogging Orks are: can they win games and are they a “strong” army? The answers are yes and no, respectively.

The Ork codex is not a “strong” one. Meaning, if you were to take two new players, give one a Space Marine codex, the other an Ork codex, have them select a random smattering of units to make up their armies and face these armies off in several randomly selected missions, the Ork player is going to lose most of those games, and by a wide margin.

However, like most armies in the game under the command of a seasoned general facing off against the right type of enemy, footslogging Orks can win games. This is especially true in a tournament setting where players tend to gear their armies towards killing MEQs (Marines and their equivalents), as they are the most common army type fielded in a tournament. Therefore, horde armies, such as Orks, often match up rather well against many tournament-tuned armies who are unable to deal with the sheer amount of models a horde army fields.

Unfortunately, the very top-tier tournament armies still have enough firepower or close-combat prowess to take down any type of enemy (horde or otherwise), and this is where the Ork codex shows its real weakness. Orks lack the really cool types of special rules that allow them to pull off sick gimmick armies like a Space Marine drop pod army. Also, a good chunk of the units in their codex are quite worthless while even their quality units pale in comparison to the best units in other army’s codices.

Essentially it comes down to this: if a footslogging Ork army is stuck playing a game against an opponent who has tuned their army to fight a horde (or they have a top-tier tournament army that can handle just about anything), there is basically nothing the Ork player can do to prevent his grisly demise. Even if the Ork player knows what army his opponent is bringing the codex just doesn't provide enough high-powered options to counter-tune his army to suit.

After all the doom-and-gloom talk if you’re still interested in creating an Ork footslogger army you’re probably wondering what kind of footslogger army list can stare down an opponent with a tournament 'take all comers' army and have a real chance of winning. The following are the solid Ork army variations that function well in the general 4th edition rules:

The Horde. This Ork army packs in as many models as possible and slowly makes its way across the table enveloping objectives and destroying vehicles and troops with a mass of Rokkit fire. This army minimizes any expensive troops and vehicles in order to keep their model count at the absolute maximum. If they do take any vehicles, they are those that function best when out of line of sight (like a looted Basilisk) in order to deny the opponent any quality targets for their anti-tank firepower. This army sometimes still uses Trukk Boyz, but these units carefully make their way into charge position staying out of line of sight until they are ready to pounce.

The Uber-Shooty. This army takes small mob sizes specifically to pack in the highest amount of heavy weapons possible. Crafty tricks (like taking Attack squigs) are often used to help make up for the small mob sizes. This army specializes in moving around the table out-shooting opponents and while still being able to swarm and kill some army types in close combat. The ability of nearly all Ork heavy weapons to move and fire makes this army surprisingly maneuverable. Some versions of this army feature shooty-vehicles, like a Looted Leman Russ, Warbuggies or Kans.

Shoot and Sneak Attack. This army features a strong shooty foot element, while incorporating a mounted speed element (usually a full 3 Trukk boyz mobs and a mounted Cybork unit) that sneaks up a flank and eventually pounces on a portion of the enemy army. Basically, the shooty portion is bait that can put out a surprising amount of firepower, while the sneak attack can wipe out enemy units and capture objectives.

I'll discuss more about each of these army types later, but first it is important to discuss an overview of which Ork units are worthwhile and those that are best avoided.

THE GOOD

HQ

Ork Warboss. You've got to take him. There are two basic varieties, the cheap and the expensive. The cheap is for a shooty walking army where the Warboss is simply going to walk along with a unit and shoot. A Rokkit or Big shoota along with a Choppa and Big Horns (to lead a unit with his Ld10) is all you really need. The expensive version is used when you're taking Trukkboyz in the army and you leave a spot for the Boss to ride with 'em. A Powerklaw and Choppa along with Big Horns, 'eavy armor, Cybork body and Bionic Bonce gives him a 3+/5+ save. You do not want to give him a Bionik arm as the extra attack occurs at a higher Initiative step which, if successful, allows the enemy to pull the only enemy in base contact with the Warboss thereby denying him the rest of his Attacks.

The fact that the Warboss strikes before (if he uses his Choppa) or after (if he uses a Powerklaw) any Ork unit he is fighting alongside can be problematic since a smart opponent can often remove casualties to deny either him or the accompanying unit the chance to attack. Your best bet (if possible), is to split the Boss off from the Trukkboy unit when they disembark and have him charge a separate enemy unit on his own (or even an enemy vehicle if he has a Powerklaw).

Big Mek. The Big Mek is only really useful for getting a Kustom Force Field in your army or fixing damaged vehicles. Standard load-out is a KFF and a Choppa, although if you have Kans in your army you also want to take Mek Tools and 3 Grot Oilers (to fix damaged vehicles on a 3+ roll). Although the KFF doesn't work as well with vehicles in 4th edition (only giving them protection 50% the time) the ability to grant any Ork unit with a majority of its models under the field's canopy means that much more Ork infantry models may simultaneously be protected by the KFF than in 3rd edition.

Painboss w/ Cybork retinue. The reason to take a Painboss is to take the Cybork retinue. His equipment is a Powerklaw and Slugga or Choppa. As he fights separately from his unit in CC, you may conisder giving him Cybork body, 'eavy armor and Bionic Bonce. He and his Cybork retinue unit can be mounted in a Trukk so it’s a great way to get a 4th Trukk mounted unit in your army without breaking the bank on a Nob retinue for the Warboss.

At 13 points a model, Cyborks are an absolute steal for their statline. The two big weaknesses is that the Painboss is only Ld7 (and you can't get him an Iron Gob) and he fights separately in CC from his retinue of Cyborks. Because of their low Ld and small squad size, Cyborks can sometimes lose a combat and get run-down due to Orks’ paltry Initiative of 2.

ELITES

Kommandos. These elite units are relatively cheap enough that they can be taken in all 3 varieties of the Ork army presented above. Their ability to Infiltrate in non-Alpha missions makes them handy. They can be given 2 Rokkits (one on the Nob) along with Ammo Runts or the mob can be kept ultra-cheap as a 5-man unit with a Rokkit (55 points). You can also give the Nob a Powerklaw, but if you sink too many points into the unit and infiltration is not used in the mission, you're suddenly stuck with an expensive small unit walking across the table (although with the 2 Rokkit variation they still have a decent amount of ranged ability).

If infiltration is used in the mission, Kommandos can hunt vehicles on the first turn (especially with two Rokkits and Ammo runts). Alternatively, if the army has Trukks, they can infiltrate and hold position behind a piece of terrain near the enemy's deployment zone. In doing so you keep that approach clear to move Trukks into position for a safe charge. If the enemy does move towards the terrain the Kommandos are behind, the unit can move through the cover and charge. Multiple 5-man Rokkit units can also be deployed together in order to harass specific enemy vehicles or units.

Flash Gitz. This unit should only taken in the uber-shooty or the Shoot and sneak attack armies (usually more so with the former). Standard loadout is 3 Big Shootas and a Nob with a Big Shoota along with either the 'Shootier' or 'More Dakka' upgrade. 'More Dakka' is more versatile as it allows the regular shoota boys to move around and shoot along with the Big Shootas, but it is signifigantly more expensive than ‘Shootier’ (3 times as much per model). ‘Shootier’ can be used to unleash a volley of S5 shots up to 24" if the unit doesn't move (or a massive double-bang of S5 shots at 12" or under). Since you pay the upgrade price per model, you shouldn’t take too large a unit; somewhere between 14-18 models is about right.

TROOPS

Slugga Boyz. The heart and soul of most Ork armies, this unit has the ability to pack three move-and-shoot heavy weapons, a 'hidden' Nob with 5 Powerklaw attacks on the charge and plenty of S3 Choppa attacks that, with enough Orks in the mob, can whittle down almost any enemy unit in CC. Standard equipment is 3 Rokkits in the unit and a Nob with Powerklaw and Choppa. You can also give the Nob a Rokkit instead of his Choppa in an uber-shooty army. If you're taking a smaller mob size (about 15 models or less), you should consider an Iron Gob to help out with Morale checks. Also, at least one Mob in the army should have a Bosspole to ensure successful Mob-ups. The Mob with the Bosspole should be kept at the back of the army on the battlefield, a role that fits best if the mob is armed with (the longer-ranged) Big Shootas.

Standard armament for a Slugga mob is usually Rokkits for a few reasons: First, Slugga mobs can kill infantry units fairly easy in CC, but the same cannot be said for enemy vehicles. Second, in a MEQ rich tournament environment, a Rokkit actually kills MEQs more efficiently per point than a Big Shoota (a Rokkit is 3 points cheaper than a Big Shoota). Third, since Orks tend to keep moving forward, after the first turn of the game the 24" of the Rokkit is generally sufficient to reach enemy targets.

Big Shootas do have their place in an Ork army, as their increased range allows Orks to target distant targets length-wise across the table (especially fast vehicles that use their speed to stay out of Rokkit range). In addition, not every single game features a MEQ opponent and Big Shootas are much more efficient at killing horde infantry than the Rokkit. Essentially all types of footslogging Ork armies should feature a ratio of between 2:1 to 3:1 Rokkits to Big Shootas.

Burnas are always a bad idea in any foot-borne mob as the unit forfeits the chance to fire most of the turns in the game. Likely the Burna will only fire a single shot before the unit assaults. Once locked in combat, the power weapon attacks provided by the Burna are actually less effective against MEQs (per point) than a basic Choppa attack (as models with a Burna don’t get the +1 Attack for being armed with two single-handed weapons). Although Burnas can be used to assault vehicles, Rokkits in the unit provide you a much better chance to kill that vehicle throughout the entire course of the game (as you get multiple rounds of shooting with a Rokkit). Besides, you can always fall back on the Nob's Powerklaw if you asbolutely need to assault a vehicle.

Tankbustas. This unit is expensive and just as vulnerable to enemy fire as any other Ork unit. However, they are unique in the Ork army as (effectively) having a S9 attack against vehicles (which is essential for damaging heavier vehicle types). In any shooty style of army you typically will want to include two units with 3 Rokkits and a Nob with Rokkit and Iron Gob. Because the enemy will often target them first, take the full ten Orks in the unit, unless you're playing the uber-shooty army, in which case it's all about taking the minimum sized Mob to pack weapons into the army.

Attack Squigs can be used as a cheap way to bulk the unit beyond 10-Orks strong as they are only 6 points (compared to 11 point Tankbusta boyz). They have the same armor save as a regular Ork (6+), which that means you are free to select them as a casualty and their Toughness of 3 won’t affect the unit unless they somehow end up becoming the majority type in the unit (which shouldn’t happen if the Attack Squigs are removed as the first casualties in the unit).

Alternatively, if the Tankbusta unit is being taken in more of a suicidal role (to get one good shot off before it is destroyed), as often found in the uber-shooty army, Ammo Runts can be taken instead of Attack squigs to help ensure that at least one good volley of fire will hit its intended target.

Gretchin Mobs. At 3 points per model, this mob is the ultimate scoring unit. The Slaver typically gets a Rokkit or Big Shoota, Squighound and a Choppa if you have the points. As they are so cheap, you can take a large unit 14-24 grots is a good size) that the enemy will not want to shoot at, as they're so useless at fighting and shooting. That means they are often still scoring at the end of the game. The squighound keeps the unit from running away very often, and the unit can also be used to provide a cover save for mobs not under a KFF. In some rare cases they can even clear Castellan Minefields or help your Orks move through difficult terrain. They are a terrific support unit and almost any Ork army type should include at least one or two Grot units. Don’t forget that a Squighound in base contact with the Slaver can be used to re-roll any failed leadership test, including failed target priority tests!

FAST ATTACK

Trukk Boyz. This is the workhorse of the mobile attack element in any footslogging Ork army. Typical load-out is a full unit of 10 Orks (or nine if you're leaving space for a Warboss) with a Burna and a Nob. The Nob has a Powerklaw and an Iron Gob. The Iron Gob is essential for smaller units of Orks as they will often break when they lose a round of close combat and the Ork's Initiative of 2 almost always means they will get run-down and killed if this happens. The Trukk should be given a Rokkit, Red Paint Job and Grot Riggers. If you're feeling adventurous you can also give it a Stikkbomb Chukka to create some crazy late-in-the-game Tank Shock antics.

Do not bother giving the Trukk the Armor Plates upgrade. Instead, the Trukk should always use its 25" move to get to a safe spot out of line of sight of the enemy. Even if this means it will take 2-3 turns to set up the charge, it is fully worth it to keep your Trukk Boy units safe from enemy fire. Being open-topped AV10 and a prime threat to your opponent means that they will always look for ways to shoot your Trukks whenever possible and even a single volley of enemy fire will usually prevent the Trukk from moving (if not destroy it outright).

Warbuggies. In a pure horde army (that doesn't have 3 Trukk boy units), super cheap Skorcha wartrakks can be taken to harass the enemy and potentially capture objectives (if you keep them hidden for the whole game until the last turn). Again, the only upgrades worth taking are Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers and optionally a Stikkbomb Chukka. Just like with Trukks, the Armor Plates upgrade isn’t a worthwhile purchase as a Skorcha that takes any enemy fire is likely to suffer too many hits for the Armor Plates to ever have a chance of saving.

In an uber-shooty army twin-linked Rokkit buggies are a fairly cheap way to get more heavy weapons into the army and they can provide speed to capture objectives in the final turn. Typically, the only upgrade they should take is Grot Riggers, as they don't tend to move towards the enemy that much, negating the use for Red Paint Job and Stikkbomb Chukkas.

HEAVY SUPPORT

Killer Kans. In an uber-shooty or shoot and sneak attack army Kans can provide a fairly cheap way to get more heavy weapons into the army, and they also naturally provide a solid counter-charge ability. Although their weapons are not twin-linked like a Warbuggy, their AV11 and enclosed vehicle status make them much more durable than the buggy. In addition, they are unique in that they pay the same price for either a Big Shoota or a Rokkit, making it a smart choice to take the (normally more expensive) Big Shoota. This is also useful because in Escalation they start off the table and the additional range provided by the Big Shoota allows them to contribute more quickly when they do arrive.

If supported by a Mek with a KFF, not only does this help protect them from incoming fire, but he can also fix damage to the Kan on a roll of 3+ (provided the Mek has Mek Tools and 3 Grot Oilers). One of the big weaknesses of a Kan mob is that if one of them becomes Immobile if the other Kans move out of coherency, the Immobile Kan is automatically destroyed. This factor makes Mek Tools even more of a critical choice as it will allow your Kan mob to stay in coherency more reliably.

Looted Vehicles. Looted Vehicles are very helpful in every type of Ork army. If the Ork army features any Kans or Buggies then both a Leman Russ or Demolisher can help siphon anti-tank fire away from these vulnerable vehicles. In an uber-shooty army where the whole army tends to move forward, a Demolisher is a great choice as it can move along with the army and really put pressure on your opponent. If you're playing a shoot and sneak-attack army where the shooting portion of the army tends to sit back more, then the Looted Leman Russ is the better choice as it can sit back with the shooting elements of the army and fire across the table at enemy targets. Either way, you’ll want to take Armor Plates, Grot Riggers and put the minimum amount of points into hull and sponson weapons as possible. The Riggers are taken in case the vehicle randomly surges into difficult terrain and becomes immobilised. If you're taking a Demolisher then Red Paint Job is also a good buy.

Alternatively, if you're playing an army that features no Kans or Buggies, a Basilisk is a fine choice as it still denies the enemy any vehicles to fire at with their AT fire, but you still gain a potent long-ranged anti-MEQ weapon. This is especially helpful in a horde army, since your entire force moves forward, the enemy will naturally move away from your army, thereby ensuring that your Basilisk will always have targets beyond its 36" minimum Indirect-fire range.

All of the other Looted vehicles are poor choices as they use the Ork's poor Ballistic Skill to hit, yet they still cost the same amount of points as when they are operated by other races with a superior Balistic Skill. Taking a looted vehicle as a transport vehicle is also a poor idea because with the new transport rules, embarked Orks really suffer a tremendous amount of casualties if they are onboard a moving vehicle when it’s destroyed (not counting Trukk boyz with their “Bailin' Out” special rule).

ESSENTIAL WARGEAR

Ammo Runts. These are essential choices in a shooting-based Ork army. You want to use them in units with Rokkits and expend them as early in the game as possible in order to destroy enemy vehicles. By destroying enemy vehicles early in the game you can cause a significant reduction in the amount of firepower being directed at your Orks or you can reduce the enemy's mobility (and likely kill/entangle some enemy too).
Attack Squigs. These are key for bulking up your units with cheap models that can be removed as the first casualties. Make sure you only use them in units where the armor save is the same type (a ‘6+’ save).
Big Horns/Iron Gob. This is essential on any smaller Ork Mob, especially if those units are going into close combat. Having a unit break in combat and then run-down by the enemy will quickly make you realize this is 6 points well spent.
Bionik Bonce/Cybork Body/Eavy Armor. A Warboss or Painboss taking a Powerklaw should take these three items in unison as they provide the model with a 3+/5+ save which is crucial for keeping the character (who fights separately from his unit in combat) alive to swing his powerfist. The invulnerable save is especially important since both Characters suffer instant-death from any S8 wound.
Bosspole. At least one unit in the army should be given the Bosspole and kept roughly in the rear of the army to serve as the 'Mob Up' point. It should not be a small unit that they enemy is going to want to shoot first (like a Tankbusta unit). Instead, it should be given to a Slugga mob with Big Shootas since their extended range means you will naturally keep them further back than the Rokkit units.
Burnas. Burnas are only useful in a Trukk Boyz mob. They should never be given to an infantry unit without a transport. Give them 3 Rokkits or Big Shootas instead.
Choppa. ICs with a Powerklaw should still be given a Choppa so that they have the choice to strike at their Initiative value if the situation calls for it. Since Orks have a BS2, the loss of a pistol for this option is well worth the extra 1 point.
Kustom Force Field/Mek's Tools/Grot Oilers. A KFF should be taken on a Big Mek. If you do decide to take a Burna squad (against my recommendation), definitely take a second KFF in the army. If your army includes any Kans, you certainly want to equip a Mek with Mek's Tools and 3 Grot Orderlies to be able to fix a vehicle on a 3+. Other vehicle types generally move too fast for the Mek to keep up with and fix.
Heavy Weapons. Orks are one of the few races that allow their characters to take a Heavy weapon. Don't miss the opportunity to give every character one unless they have a Powerklaw and you need to maximize the amount of CC Attacks they make. In a uber-shooty army, even characters with Powerklaws should still be given a Heavy weapon. Remember to maintain a ratio between 2:1 and 3:1 of Rokkits to Big Shootas in your army.
Squighound. All Slavers should be equipped with at least one Squighound. They are essential to keeping Grot units on the board.
Tankbusta Bombz. Highly effective grenade against vehicles. Any character not equipped with a Powerklaw should be given serious consideration for Tankbusta bombz in order to make them a threat towards vehicles, should the situation present itself.
Armor Plates. This upgrade is useful for any enclosed vehicle (Kan, looted Leman Russ, Demolisher). Open-topped vehicles should either be kept out of range/LOS of the enemy or they will suffer too many hits for Armor Plates to even have a chance to stop.
Grot Riggers. Grot Riggers, for the cost (2 points), should be standard on all Ork vehicles that can take them, especially considering that Victory Points and scoring status are now determined by whether or not a vehicle is mobile at the end of the game.
Red Paint Job. Again, for the cost (3 points) this is practically a mandatory upgrade for any Ork Trukk, Skorcha or Looted Demolisher. Other types of Warbuggies, looted Leman Russes and Basilisks don't need it.
Searchlight. Super-cheap and highly useful in games that use Night Fight. I suggest including one or two on a Kan and/or Trukk just in case.
Stikkbomb Chukka. This is a fun (fairly cheap) upgrade that is great on Trukks and Skorchas that can be used to surprise an opponent who assumes that Trukks are harmless once their passengers are disembarked (especially if their weapon has been blown off). All it takes is one Tank Shock of an enemy unit off the table to realize the value of this upgrade.

THE BAD

HQ

Nob retinue. Nobs are simply too expensive for what they do. They can't be cost effectively made into a shooty unit (as you're always paying points for their amazing CC abilities) and if you take them as a CC unit and put them in a Trukk they will always end up being nearly 300 points (including the Warboss) that can be effectively removed from the game by destroying a single AV10 vehicle. In any type of Ork army you want to stay far, far away from putting all your ‘eggs in one basket’ since every Ork unit is relatively easy to destroy. A Nob mob (especially in a Trukk) is a prime example of this.

Big Mek bodyguard. Mekboy retinue models cost 10 points for a basic Ork statline with no weapons. In other words, they are already expensive for not doing anything special before you even give them weapons. Then, given the fact that they cannot take the same combination of weapons, it makes it very difficult/expensive to make the unit anywhere next to efficient at doing any one thing. You are much better off putting your points into a unit that doesn't cost extra points for nothing and can be given the weapons you want to give it.

ELITES

Stormboyz. These units are very expensive and just as vulnerable to enemy fire as any other basic Ork unit, and that's a bad combination. It means Stormboyz should only really be taken in medium to large sized mobs and only if you are taking a fast moving gimmick type army where you want to completely overwhelm the enemy quickly (I'll talk more about this army type later). Otherwise, Stormboyz should be left at home as lone mobs of them tend to be targeted by the enemy and eliminated before they can accomplish anything and since they cost you a premium of points this means you will have lost a large portion of your army when this invariably happens.

'Ard Boyz. This unit is not bad for the points and these Orks are significantly tougher to kill vs. the basic infantry weapon found in every army. However, the problem is that Orks don't have any other units in their army with a 4+ save, so that means whatever weapons the enemy has that are AP4 will naturally be trained immediately upon the 'Ard Boyz until they are wiped out. Good use of terrain and taking multiple mobs of them can make them more worthwhile, but ultimately in the army types discussed in this tactica more bodies and heavy weapons are more important than slightly tougher Orks (especially as they cost 1/4 more points than a basic Slugga Boy).

Skarboyz. Unfortunately, this is another unit that costs extra points but dies just as easily to enemy fire. Opponents will always target and kill Skarboyz first and the extra two points per model you spent on them will have been wasted. Skarboyz have no place in a foot slogging army. In Cities of Death where they can pop right out of a Sewer and charge they can be deadly, but not in a basic game of 40k.

TROOPS

Shoota Boyz. This is a staple unit in many players Ork army and it really shouldn't be given the current rapid-fire rules in 4th edition. At one point less than Slugga Boyz, Shootas are only slighly cheaper. If you want to put some cheaper bodies into the army to soak up initial casualties, stick with taking Attack Squigs in your Slugga Mobs (and/or include some Grot mobs in your army). Shootas are a terrible weapon for Orks because if you want to fire them at their maximum range you have to keep the unit stationary; a concept that doesn't jive with the unit's ability to move and fire it's heavy weapons. Even if a Shoota unit has the luxury of sitting back while the enemy comes towards them, it is still helpful to be able to 'shuffle' the models in the unit around to get a better line of sight or to stay out of charge range of an incoming enemy CC unit. If you really feel the need to take a unit that is worth standing still to fire, stick with Flash Gitz.

The most important reason why Shootas are terrible compared to Sluggas is that in the case where the enemy is within 12", rapid-firing the Shootas prevents the unit from charging and even two S4 shots fired are vastly inferior to a pistol shot fired by a Slugga Boy followed by by another 4 CC attacks on the charge. If you want some Big Shootas in your army, take a Slugga unit with Big Shootas or take a Flash Gitz mob. Stay away from the Shoota Boyz.

Stkk Bommas. This is the worst unit in the codex and perhaps the game. There is simply never a reason why you would want to pay 10 points for an Ork that loses its Choppa in order to gain Frag and Krak grenades. It is an absolutely atrociously priced unit.

Burna Boyz. Although taking this unit is a way to get more KFFs into your army, the fact that you're stuck with a small sized mob that can only take Burnas (see the 'Slugga Boy' commentary for why taking Burnas in a foot-slogging unit is a bad idea). Given that most Ork armies regularly use all 6 Troop slots you just can't afford to waste that slot on a unit of Burna boyz in order to get another KFF into the army.

FAST ATTACK

Warbikes. These units are simply far, far too fragile for their points cost. In almost all cases they will shoot and charge one unit (doing decent damage) before getting wiped out by the enemy. However, just like Stormboyz, this can be compensated for by taking a metric ton of them. In most types of Ork army there simply isn't a place for them.

HEAVY SUPPORT

Big Gunz Battery. These units can have some uses, but none of them are particularly effective. For example, a battery of Lobbas can be used in a horde army along with a Basilisk to rain down indirect fire from out of LOS. However, even at S5 a battery of Lobbas isn't terribly effective with the 4^th edition Indirect fire rules, especially against MEQs. Both Zzap guns and Kannons have fairly short range considering they cannot move and shoot in the same turn and considering the battery counts as a 'large target' for target priority. That means it is incredibly easy for enemy units to target the battery which has to stay within range of enemy fire in order to be in range itself. In general, it is better to use your Heavy Support slots to take either a Looted Vehicle or KillaKans.

Lootas. This unit (like Stikk Bommas) is just not worth the points cost considering the rules it has. They still have to pay the weapon upgrade costs based on another army's Ballistic Skill even though they still fire at their pathetic BS2. Once you factor in the tiny unit size and the 'Looted Weapon' rule, the unit will nearly always do significant damage to itself regardless of what the enemy does.

Dreadnought. While this is a solid unit, it just doesn't compare to KillaKans. Two Kans with Big Shootas costs 90 points while a Dreadnought with 2 Big Shootas costs 86 points. The Dreadnought has a superior Armor Value of 12, but the Kans (combined) have an extra Attack and they can't be destroyed by a single hit. Given the ease at which weapons punch through either AV 11 or 12, having the walker 'split in two' (so to speak) is a much better way to spend your points.

Battlewagon. Many players swear by the Battlewagon (kind of like Shoota Boyz mobs), but it is a bad unit to take in the army. For its points cost, it is terrifically easy to destroy (being open-topped) and any Orks riding on board are not going to benefit from the Trukk Boyz Bailin' Out rule so typically more than 50% of the passengers will be killed if the Battlewagon was moving over 6". It can be used as a gun platform, but again for the points, it is terrifically easy to kill and for an equivalent points value you can take a Looted Leman Russ or 3 Kans, both of which are much, much more difficult to destroy. Some players even like to pour extra points into the vehicle by giving it multiple Bolt-on Big Shootas and putting a big unit inside. Unfortunately, this is a terrible example of the 'eggs in one basket' syndrome that I discussed with the Nob Retinue. A Battlewagon loaded up this way is still just as easy to kill as ever, but now it gives up more Victory Points and around half the passengers get killed for their trouble as well (not to mention the survivors are entangled in the next turn).

If you want more Transports in your army take 3 Trukk boy mobs and a Cybork retinue. If you want more gun platforms in your army take a Looted Leman Russ and six KillaKans. The Battlewagon just has too many flaws for its points cost.

WARGEAR TO AVOID

Bionik Arm. The attack provided by the Bionik Arm strikes at a higher Initiative than Orks normally do, and therefore if used on an IC can result in the only enemy model in base contact being removed as a casualty, denying the IC a chance to make the rest of its Attacks.
Dok's Tools/Grot Orderlies. The only Dok I suggest you take in the army is the Painboss and he should be leading his Cyborks in a Trukk. Since we've already given him a Powerklaw (and perhaps Cybork Body, Bionic Bonce and 'Eavy Armor) we really can't afford to give him Tools and 3 Orderlies to have the chance to heal his Cyborks. Besides, only ten models can fit in the Trukk so you'd have to take less Cyborks to take Orderlies and Cyborks are just too valuable not to take.
Grabba Stick. Made pointless by the 4th edition rules. A waste of 5 points for absolutely nothing.
Kombi-Weapons. As with all Combi-weapons in 40k, they simply cost way too many points for a one shot weapon, especially considering that Orks have a BS2. The Kombi-Flamer is obviously the most appealing, but in all cases if a character is going to take a two-handed weapon, it should be a Rokkit or Big Shoota instead.
Kustom Mega Blasta. The fact that this is one of the few actual "Heavy" weapons in the Ork army means it isn't very well suited for an army where everything else can move and shoot. On a vehicle, the auto-glancing hit is far too big a penalty to even consider taking, especially considering how ineffective Blast weapons are in 4th edition (with the center hole having to go over an enemy model).
Kustom Jobs. A character is better off taking a Big Shoota or Rokkit than selecting Kustom Jobs for his Shoota. Taking Kustom Jobs on a Slugga isn't a terrible idea (as it maintains a character's ability to get the +1A with his Powerklaw), but considering the range remains 12" on the Slugga and that Orks have a BS2, it means there are better places to spend your points.
Mega Armor/Mega Boosta/Stikkbomb Chukka. I don't recommend taking a Nob retinue (especially in Mega Armor) as they are just too expensive to be effective. Taking Mega Armor for a Nob in a regular mob is also a bad idea, as even with a Mega Boosta he stands a real chance of slowing the unit down especially during a critical charge move. He also loses the ability to get the +1A bonus for his Powerklaw attack in CC. Finally, the mixed armor rules means that the Nob won't be able to even utilize this 2+ armor save in most cases unless his squad is already dead.
Super Stikkbombz. Just take Tankbusta Bombz instead. They are almost as effective, don't wound the user and cost less points.
'Uge Choppa. An absolutely terrible weapon for the points cost. Always take either a regular Choppa or Powerklaw instead.
'Urty Syringe. The fact that the target gets its normal armor save and there are several enemy unit types completely immune to its effects makes the Syringe a poor choice.
Waaagh! Banner. Costs too many points for an ability that has too small a range. It isn’t terrible, its just there are just better places to put your points.
Big Grabber, Wrecker Ball, Reinforced Ram, Boarding Plank. Too many points for too small a chance at causing damage. Also, the Ork vehicles that can take them are far too easily destroyed to invest more points into them.
Spikes and Blades. The same as with the previous entry. The vehicles that can take this upgrade (Buggies and Battlewagon) are too easily destroyed by enemy fire to really worry about being protected from CC attacks.
Bolt-On Big Shoota. Exactly the same problem as the previous two entries. Trukks with passengers desperately need to stay out of LOS to stay alive. Under no circumstance should they be in LOS to fire a Bolt-on Big Shoota.
Turbo Boosta. Trukks and Buggies already move incredibly fast ( 25" ) and the Turbo's effects give a 50/50 chance of ruining the ability for the passengers to disembark. Trukks are too paper thin to risk on a gamble like that. Instead, Trukks should spend an extra turn using their already ample move to get into a better position to attack the enemy in the following turn. This upgrade would only really be worthwhile on a Battlewagon, and there are already plenty of other reasons why you shouldn't be fielding one in your army.

EFFECTIVE ARMY TYPES

THE HORDE ARMY

The horde army functions in one of two basic ways:

1) The army is loaded up with as many infantry models as humanly possible. Generally this means: A cheap Warboss with a heavy weapon and 3 Attack Squigs, a Big Mek with KFF and 3 Attack Squigs, two units of Grots (Slavers w/ squighounds and heavy weapons), 4 big Slugga mobs (each w/ 3 heavy weapons and a Nob with a Powerklaw, 3 Attack Squigs and/or a heavy weapon), 3 units of 10 Kommandos (w/ a Rokkit and a Nob with a Rokkit and 2 Ammo Runts), a looted Basilisk with Grot Riggers and 3 individual Skorchas each with Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers and Stikkbomb Chukkas.

Basically this army just marches forward while the Basilisk stays out of LOS and pounds the enemy. The Skorchas either make suicidal attacks and/or Tank Shocks or they stay hidden in an attempt to capture objectives at the end of the game. The main bulk of the force moves up firing their Rokkits at vehicles first, then at Infantry, looking to get into CC. The grots and KFF provide cover for the force while all the Squighounds in the units are the first casualties. If Kommandos can infiltrate they take pot shots at enemy vehicles with their two Rokkits and Ammo Runts, otherwise they just march along with the rest of the army.

This army type obviously excels at objective based missions where the objective forces the enemy towards the center of the board. This army should have over 150 models (with the grots making up a sizable chunk of that) and is an absolute beast to wipe out. Armies and missions that don't require an up-close fight would obviously be a struggle for this army, as 6" per turn won't get the Orks all that far. This army type also enjoys Escalation as the entire army (sans Basilisk) sets up on the table (including the infiltrating Kommandos) and will be well across the board before the enemy gets their vehicles on the table.

Enemy indirect firing and the Fury of the Ancients psychic power are both bad news for the Basilisk.

2) The second variation has less models but it gains quite a bit of speed. The big difference is that the Big Mek is gone, replaced by a Painboss with Cybork retinue mounted in a vehicle. The Skorchas are also replaced by Trukk Boyz mobs. The Mob sizes are all smaller and there are usually less (if any) Kommando units. Lastly, the Warboss is given more equipment and rides with the Cybork unit to provide it with much needed Leadership.

The big change in strategy for this horde is that the army now has a number of potent striking units. Careful movement of the Trukks is key, using several turns to move into a position to disembark and charge the enemy without being shot. The Basilisk's indirect fire, Infiltrating Kommando units and the slow moving central force can all be used to push the enemy into a position where the Trukk units can strike at an optimal time.

While this variation loses some of the stamina of having a sickening amount of models on the table, the ability to bring the fight to the enemy makes it much less dependent on a favorable mission type. It also has more options for capturing objectives. This army really fears a table with sparse terrain or enemy armies with indirect firing (especially the Fury of the Ancients psychic power) who can target the Trukks that are making their way towards the enemy. This variation still enjoys Escalation as the Footslogging units tend to be further across the board by the time the game really gets going. When the Trukks arrive they can see where the action is happening before using their 25” move to get into a good striking position.

THE UBER-SHOOTY ARMY

The Uber-Shooty army essentially takes a whole bunch of tiny Mobs and maxes them out with Heavy Weapons. While these mobs are quite vulnerable to enemy fire, there are a whole lot of them, meaning several enemy units will need to hit the army in order to wipe out multiple units. In short, this Ork army tends to take damage in piecemeal. Meanwhile, the amount of firepower the army can kick out is downright scary.

Rather than trying to explain it more, why not read about Dakka poster ‘Spikydavid’ who took footslogging Orks to Heat 3 of the 2006 UKGT and came in 2nd place! Here's a link to his battle report thread:

www.dakkadakka.com/Forums/tabid/56/forumid/17/postid/121694/view/topic/Default.aspx

The only real variation of the Uber-Shooty Ork army I've seen is one that involves including a bunch of shooty vehicles to the mix, such as a Looted Leman Russ, Buggy squadrons and Kans.

I think the all infantry variation is naturally stronger because it denies the enemy any real use from their AT weaponry, which is always a good thing. The all infantry list is also much more favorable in Escalation missions, where the mixed list would effectively be cut in half for a portion of the game.

THE SHOOT AND SNEAK ATTACK ARMY

This army is basically a variation on the other two army types I've just presented above and is what I used to go 4-1 at the 2004 LAGT.

The army consists of 3 Trukk Boy mobs (it could also include the Pianboss with Cybork retinue) as the "sneak attack" functioning exactly how I described in the variation of the "horde". These fast units sneak into position and then attack a portion of the enemy's army. The difference from the horde variation is that the 'strong center' of the army is made up of small shooty squads exactly like the uber-shooty army. An example could be: a Looted Leman Russ, two squads of 2 Kans each, a big Mek with KFF, tools and Oilers, 2 squads of Tankbustas, 2 small squads of Sluggas, 2 squads of Grots.

This 'center' sits back and shoots instead of marching forward like the horde does. It has enough shooting and counter-assualt ability to fend off a moderate CC force on its own. Meanwhile, the sneak attack is hopefully striking at a portion of the enemy and causing serious damage. Since the infantry elements of the army don't do much moving towards the enemy (at least early in the game) Escalation doesn't hurt this army very badly. The infantry just stays concealed in some nice terrain and waits for the shooty vehicle elements to join them. The sneak attack elements can get a handle on where the action is happening before zooming into position to strike.

THE EVIL SUNS BIKER/STORMBOY GIMMICK ARMY

I actually played against this army and I know it has won several RTTs. I think it may be commanded by a guy who used to post on Dakka (he may still, I think his name was 'skaisbrad' or something like that). Nice guy and a great army.

Basically it is a Evil Suns Cult list maxed out on Bikers (core troops) and Stormboyz (Elites). He had 3 gigantic (20 man) Stormboyz units backed up by a bunch of biker units and a few twin-linked Rokkit Buggies roaring around trying to take out enemy tanks.

The army is in your face so quickly there is little you can do about it, and that many Warbikes combined put out a tremendous amount of firepower. This type of army is also a great place to use the "Boss Zagstruk" (Stormboy special character). He's pretty wicked on his own (His Stormboy unit charges 12" and gets +1 Strength when they charge), but when surrounded by a whole army that moves almost as fast as them, the results are impressive.

This type of army can do quite well against all but the very top-tier army lists (like super shooty marines, Iron Warriors, etc).

That’s all for now, but hopefully this tactica has given you more than enough to think about for constructing your own Waaagh. Good luck!

**Da Boss**

That's very interesting. Thanks! Obviously quite geared towards a certain kind of metagame, but still very good. I never saw attack squigs as a viable choice until now.

**Taoofss**

no love for the squigoth with kustom force field?

**Flagg07**

Any chance you'll cover the Orks you left out? I'm very interested in your ideas on Ferals.

**Voodoo Boyz**

Honestly any Ork army that's going to do well is going to be a trick army, must along the lines of what Yak posted as the good army types.

Usually you will come up against an army that laughs at your "trick" and you will lose. Mech Tau will be your worst nightmare almost always though, even "friendlier" Mech Tau lists will hurt you when they're played right. Mech Eldar can be hard, depending on the build, but they're not quite so bad because Eldar now take a decent amount of assault units to kill Marines, and nothing ever really wants to assault a lot of Boyz. Of course if he's running Dire Avengers, Fire Prisms, or Warp Spiders - you're hosed per usual.

I've actually had some great success against MEQ's and the like with my Blood Axe/Death Skull army lists. They allow me to field 3 Looted Tanks, the Basalisk, Demolisher, and Russ. 3 Pie Plates plus advancing Orks (either a hoard, or just lots of fast'unz like Trukks, Cyborks, Storm Boyz, etc) and it quickly becomes a hard fight for the MEQ army, except Maybe Necrons but it's doable.

Kult of Speed is a nice army, but it depends on terrain so bad it hurts. If there's not a lot of middle laying terrain, and enough of it to hide your units - you're dead. And even if you do get that and you roll up against Mech Tau, there's almost no point in deploying.

Your tactica is very sound Yak, in fact it about sums up all the Ork knowledge I've read and learned on my own from my years playing 40k (I started with Orks). But the problem as you stated, and it can't be understated is that Orks are a very frustrating army to play with, especially if you like playing a tactical game with chances against all comers. Orks sadly can't do that IMO, not in an enviornment where the players are semi-competitive, even in pick up games.

**Da Boss**

I think the above tactica is pretty geared toward taing out MEQs (sensible, as they make up so much of the playerbase).
Any ideas on how to fight tyranids? I cringe at asking for help, but my regular opponent is undefeated by me. I've come close to not being horribly slaughtered but that's it. His army generally has 3 carnifexs and a hive tyrant back up by warriors and gribblies, and I can't seem to scratch it. It's like, everything I can do, he can do better, and faster and with more shooting.

**coredump**

Tyranids are used to being the best assaulting army on the board, not so true against Orks. You will have trouble against devourer shots, but should do fine in assault.

It would help to know more about your army, and about his. You may want to start a new thread for that.

**Mannahnin**

Well, both Devourers and Barbed Stranglers really hurt if you're an Ork. The biggest problem is if he has enough shooting to really chew up the mobs and reduce their numbers before you get into assault. If not, generally Orks are going to win through sheer weight of attacks. Unless a big bug has been bumped up to T7, 40-odd choppa attacks are going to do a couple of wounds, and the Klaw has a decent chance to finish it off in a single turn. Even Genestealers die to weight of numbers, despite their initiative advantage.

But overall I agree, a new thread is probably in order for this.

**yakface**

Posted By Flagg07 on 04/14/2007 12:02 PM
Any chance you'll cover the Orks you left out? I'm very interested in your ideas on Ferals.

Sadly, I've never played with (or against) a feral army, so I could only speculate on their capabilities.

Considering GW's stance towards sub-lists now, I'd never consider making a KoS or Feral army. Whether or not parts of the Ferals/KoS armies make it into the codex I believe those two armies will officially be no more once the new codex does come out.

**orks gone wild**

I would just like to thank Yak Face for the wounderfull Tactica I will be posting a 1850 list using it as a guid line at some point within the next two days. Thanks agian..

- Grim Toof

**ColonelEllios**

Fairly good writeup Yak, although I disagree about the usefulness of Nob squads.

If you take a full squad with minimum upgrades, they are still rock-hard in assault. Giving them some shooting ability is fairly cheap, and having a unit around that's relatively tough to enemy shooting (in ork terms) can put pressure on your opponent in the same way as a demolisher does.

I contend that a Warboss + Nob Squad is a great shooting distraction to have to keep your enemy from shooting your smaller, more vulnerable kommandos or tankbustaz.

**Leith**

Hate to be a downer, but I've been palying Orks for years, they were my first love in 40k and I dont think you really captured the true power and spirit of the army book. In fact you actually pissed me off in the first few paragraphs. Orks are probably one of the most balanced army lists in the game. Every time someone comes at me with a genious insta-win stratagey I can always find the solution to the problem with Orks. Everything in the list, with the possible exception of Lootas, is useful and, to some extent, adaptive.
I cant fault your perceptions but I strongly disagree with your conclusions and advise. All Ork armies are footsloggers, with the singular exception of Kult of Speed, since all their troop choices are infantry and their troops are eisily the best choices in the book, and that is how they fight. Its the classic crash and smash, all Ork tactics work best when they are based off of this simple concept and understanding. Tricks should not be the basis for your army any more than you would do this for another army, they should be based on what's in your army already and what your opponent at the time has. The obvious problem is that this is a radically different way to play 40k, crash and smash with out the serious power that comes from a deamon prince, a 3+ save or awsome speed. That's the main difficulty in playing with an Ork army, you can't look at it the way you look at a Necron or Tau or even a Space Marine army.
An individual Ork bites, an army kicks teeth.

**yakface**

Leith:

I appreciate the comments, but you have given a very general idea of why you think my tactica is incorrect, yet there aren't any concrete examples to back up your claim.

Orks are NOT, by any means, the most balanced army and there are dozens of army lists opponents can play that Orks simply cannot counter.

For example: there is nothing, absolutely nothing in the Ork codex that can reliably take down a Monolith. Also take a look at the Godzilla nids vs. Orks thread in this forum. A Tyranid Godzilla army tuned to take down Orks presents serious challanges for the Ork army that they just don't have an answer for, even when you know exactly what army (even down to the units) that you'll be facing.

Also, I don't think anything in my tactica is a "trick". They are the strategies and unit choices that give the Ork player the best chance to win against a tournament take-all-comers field. Even more to the point, my 'horde' army sounds pretty similar to what (I think) you are saying about 'crash and smash'.

The problem is, horde armies are ridiculously slow, and if the mission requires any sort of mobility, the Ork army will be at a serious disadvantage. Also, if the enemy army is seriously shooty (like a Godzilla or IG army can be) the Orks will be utterly decimated before they can get anywhere near the enemy.

Last, the tournament results over the last few years speak for themselves. Besides Feral Orks and the Kult of Speed, regular foot-slogging Ork armies simply don't do well except for the occasional abberation.

I too am an avid Ork lover, but that doesn't change the fact that the reality is the Ork codex is woefully underpowered compared to the other armies currently available.

**Leith**

Oh Nigel... I disagree!

Naturally any army tuned to fight Orks will do well. I've never had a problem dealing with a "Godzilla" list, though they do have alot more firepower nowadays. Your average 'fex goes down pretty easy to massed choppas (assuming they get there) and an embedded power claw is always nice. Carnefexes and Hive Tyrants kill orks in combat just like Marines so the power claw idea is valid. Since both armies would be equal (or should be, otherwise someone did something silly) it's up to in-game tactics and dicing, Orks need to survive to make combat and Tyranids need to stay out of combat until they can win at it.

"Tricks" I think I might have read in a response, it's a moot point anyway cause I can't remember why I cared about that.

Ork footsloggers aren't ridiculously slow, they're the slowest thing in the game and there are a lot of things in 40k that are that slow.

As for specific problems with your origional post, I can't give you any cause I disagree with most of what you say. Save for the general facts and the basic principals, such as the strengths and weaknesses of the units choices and types of armies, I just haven't experianced anything that makes me agree with your assumtions and conclusions.

My real problem with the way you, and others, see Orks is the comparison to what I call insta-win armies, those armies designed so that one doesn't have to think creatively during a game until one meets an equal opponent. Orks are hard to play because they rely on a heavy infantry base in a game where total infantry is no longer feasable. To anyone such as myself or yourself, or anyone with the interest in trying, this isn't a problem. Strangly, it seems no one is interested.

Oh, and a Painboss can take anything a Nob or Mad Doc can, which means he can take Big Horns or an Iron Gob

**yakface**

Posted By Leith on 04/21/2007 12:46 AM

Oh, and a Painboss can take anything a Nob or Mad Doc can, which means he can take Big Horns or an Iron Gob

Incorrect. Big Horns/Iron Gob are a 'Nob/Warboss only' item. You're thinking of the Big Mek who is allowed to take 'Nob/Warboss only' equipment.

You say: 'Naturally any army tuned to fight Orks will do well' and that is the problem. A good codex should allow both players to tune their armies to fight that particular opponent and have an even match.

If the Ork player knows the other player is bringing Tyranids and the Tyranid player knows the opponent is Orks they should both be able to counter each other. However the Ork codex does not allow such customization which makes it weak. Did you even read the thread I pointed you to? The opposing player was taking all T7 Carnifexes rendering the basic Ork w/ choppa useless.

My real problem with the way you, and others, see Orks is the comparison to what I call insta-win armies, those armies designed so that one doesn't have to think creatively during a game until one meets an equal opponent. Orks are hard to play because they rely on a heavy infantry base in a game where total infantry is no longer feasable. To anyone such as myself or yourself, or anyone with the interest in trying, this isn't a problem. Strangly, it seems no one is interested.

Any army can be played with a mix of units to create a balanced list that doesn't 'insta-win', and really if any army should be able to make such a list then all armies should be able to. The problem is, the Orks don't have that ability with their given codex, so players who enjoy showing up to tournaments with at least an even-money chance to win all their games can't take an Ork army as a serious contender because they know (at best) they'll have an uphill battle to fight every single game.

**Leith**

T7 is countered by the power fists or by Skarboyz, probably the only use we both can agree on for the unit. And no I didn't read the thread.

The Ork codex is out of date, one of the few to have no rewrites in 3rd edition and is not scheduled for 4th edition update anytime soon. Which I think is a good thing, it shows a certain stability and a sense of "we got it right the first time." It's also good to see one or two codeces not so easily influenced by power gaming and rules lawyering.

**Mannahnin**

When you say...

"As for specific problems with your origional post, I can't give you any cause I disagree with most of what you say. Save for the general facts and the basic principals, such as the strengths and weaknesses of the units choices and types of armies, I just haven't experianced anything that makes me agree with your assumtions and conclusions."

What you're saying is that you can't refute his logic ("general facts and basic principles"), and you can't provide any actual counter arguments. All you have is your personal experience, which hasn't been so frustrating. Well, that's great for you, but it doesn't help anyone else.

If your local plan environment and opponents don't kick your orks around the table, good for you. But if you want to discuss Orks in general against most armies and opponents out there, you need to break it down and start discussing facts and numbers, as opposed to anecdotal data.

The power klaw idea was a good start. You're saying "I admit that the regular Ork boy with Choppa is helpless to harm a creature with T7 in HtH, but I think the power klaw gives them a good chance". Unfortunately, that doesn't take into account the fact that most Nid lists nowadays are shooty, and since the regular Ork boy only walks 6" and can't speed up, the bugs can just shoot the mobs with Barbed Stranglers and Devourers until they whittle the mobs down to a manageable size, then assault them with genestealers.

The Orks will shoot back, of course, but the bugs can use cover better (since they move through it more easily than the Orks), and can pick positions to shoot from where the Stealers are hidden behind LOS-blocking terrain and/or the monstrous creatures.

I don't want to make another thread about how nasty tyranids are right now. That discussion should be in the other thread.

But Orks have much the same issue with most other armies. Almost every army out there is more mobile and has more shooting. A lot of armies also have a lot of anti-infantry guns thanks to a balance swing in the latest version of their codex (marine armies have Landspeeder Tornadoes, Eldar now take more Scatter Lasers than Starcannons), which Orks haven't had any response to.

**whitedragon**

For nidzillas...

At Adepticon 2007, Dok's Toolz took a very fierce (taken straight from Yakface's Footslogging Ork Tactica) footslogging ork list.

In a table quarter mission in game 3 (with modified ambush rules) the orks could not redeploy fast enough to stop our infiltrating, demonic speeding, furies and ambushing opponents. We were corralled and could not capture any table quarters to their 3.

In game 4, against godzilla tyranids, the only thing that made our game so close was the fact that the carnifexes (carnifi?) were not T7 with 2+ saves. Even so, Venom Cannons, Barbed Stranglers and Devourers make a mockery of our trukks and large squad sizes. The Devourer regularly pasted 8 orks a turn, and you can imagine what the venom cannons did to our armor.

Powerklawz unfortunately can't be thrown or fired at enemies like a super cool anime rokkit punch!

**Da Boss**

Um. Orks aren't balanced. I'd be quite happy with their power level if everyone else was at a similar level, but that isn't the case. From a few games with KOS I think that they are pretty good.
But Orks aren't really all that good.

On the point of the nobs squad- Nobs with 'eavy armour, choppa and slugga come in at 31 points a head. So for 9 you're looking at 279 points, then the cheapest viable warboss, 71, brings it to 350.
Put them in the cheapest trukk, and you're looking at 385. For a unit that can be insta-killed to death very easily, has a 4+ save most anti infantry guns will murder, stands piss all chance against tanks or high toughness opponents, is low initiative unless it gets the charge and passes it's mob size check. A gaurd opponent could get two demolisher tanks for less than that, which would make a nasty mess of the unit.
Yes, it does have a 21" charge range, but only a moronic opponent will deploy anything worth killing in that range.
I've used it a few times, and never found it worth the points. Never. Your boss can do more leading a boyz mob or something.

**Leith**

Of course I base my argument off of my personal experience and reasoning Was I supposed to just agree and kow tow? What kinds of facts and fugures did you have in mind? Do you want to go through all of the math-hammer for me, cause my facts and numbers dont agree with yours?

As for nids, I dont want to talk about it here either cause there is a perfectly good thread for it and a lot of the advice there seems sound and successfully counter-acts your doom and gloom. Also the things that your talking about can be coutered, even stealers wont charge Orks in cover, and if the fexes can be taken down by well concealed trukk mobs then that frees the Orks up to play defensivly. Of course if the trukk isnt well hidden then your right, Orks are gonna have one hell of a battle.

High mobility is nice but admiting that your opponent is faster and using that to your advantage is the obvious thing to do. "In a table quarter mission in game 3 (with modified ambush rules) the orks could not redeploy fast enough to stop our infiltrating, demonic speeding, furies and ambushing opponents. We were corralled and could not capture any table quarters to their 3." The tactics in this case arent going to be based on what you should be putting in your army but what you have and how to use it. Getting corralled is not the armys fault but the player, I recomend pushing forwards in one direction and using the terrain to keep from getting surrounded. Like any strategy this wont always work but against the types of units described above it pits your wits direcly against your opponents, not army vs army.

My problem with the post isnt just that i disagree with its army building consensus but that it doesnt take into account the player as a creative and thinking individual. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way because I have plenty of friends who agree with me. I cant respect math-hammer because it doesn't work agianst an opponent who can think up new strategies during the game (manuverability helps with this but because most ork units are very similar in stats and capabilities you can negate that disadvantage). If you can build a brilliant math-hammer army and then come up with an adaptive strategy during the game then that's exellent but the arguments coming at me assume that the outcome of the game is entirely based on what you put in your army.

Well, I'm done. Nuff said, you can agree with me or dont (I recommend dont, cause if you read my posts I havent said anything).

**lord_sutekh**

You're right; you haven't said anything of a constructive nature. Simply put, the "materials" you're given to work with in even the worst of the modern codex (such as DA) are better than what you get from Codex: Orks. Being creative is all well and good, and any good player does it as a matter of course, but trying to make a prime rib out of a lump of mud just results in a dirt dinner. Given players of equal skill, the Ork player will lose 80% of the time or more, varied by terrain and the vagarities of the dice, simply because the Ork codex was written in the last century and hasn't been rebalanced significantly since.

**Da Boss**

My problem with the post isnt just that i disagree with its army building consensus but that it doesnt take into account the player as a creative and thinking individual. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way because I have plenty of friends who agree with me. I cant respect math-hammer because it doesn't work agianst an opponent who can think up new strategies during the game (manuverability helps with this but because most ork units are very similar in stats and capabilities you can negate that disadvantage). If you can build a brilliant math-hammer army and then come up with an adaptive strategy during the game then that's exellent but the arguments coming at me assume that the outcome of the game is entirely based on what you put in your army.

Well, I'm done. Nuff said, you can agree with me or dont (I recommend dont, cause if you read my posts I havent said anything).

Well, you'll see why I disagree with what you're saying about taking out carnifexes and whatnot in the other thread.

But I'm no fan of math hammer, all of my opinions come from games played, over a long time. (I'm not going to trot out the tired old "I've been playing Orks since 18 dickitey six, when Abe Lincoln played Space Wolves and won the Grand Tournement) I'm a wee bit insulted at being told I'm not a creative or thinking player, I'm more inclined to think that my opponents are all pretty clever too, and the list imbalance we all agree on is real. Especially considering when I use any other army (Death gaurd, my necromunda gang, my WFB Orcs, Beastmen or Lizardmen) I do pretty damned well for myself. And this is mostly picking troops on what I think would be nice to paint!

**Mannahnin**

Posted By Leith on 04/22/2007 11:39 AM
Of course I base my argument off of my personal experience and reasoning Was I supposed to just agree and kow tow? What kinds of facts and fugures did you have in mind? Do you want to go through all of the math-hammer for me, cause my facts and numbers dont agree with yours?

Facts and numbers are facts and numbers. The numbers are going to be universal. The facts can include things like the mix of armies you face, the amount of terrain on the tables, the scenarios you most commonly play (and what mix of Alpha, Gamma, and Omega missions)- all the things I was referring to when I referred to your "local play environment."

If you want to describe that local play environment, it will give other posters a chance to try and analyze how you've achieved your success, and maybe emulate your example.

If you want to talk numbers, great! Give us a sample army list, and maybe a sample list of an opponent's. Or just tell us what types of units you use, and what weapons. This stuff is universal, and broadly applicable.

As Yakface wrote right in the original post, Orks CAN win some. And his post contains universally applicable info. Whitedragon and his team used army lists constructed largely to those principles. I played against half of his team in round 3 at Adepticon and as I recall they got a Draw off my half of the nasty Chaos team. They played well, and fought hard. I thought their lists were a challenging force to face in a quadrant mission, as they had a lot of durable scoring units.

We're not asking you to "kowtow", we're asking you to contribute something useful to the discussion aside from an anecdotal report of your success. Tell us how you do it, and in what circumstances.

Posted By Leith on 04/22/2007 11:39 AM

My problem with the post isnt just that i disagree with its army building consensus but that it doesnt take into account the player as a creative and thinking individual. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way because I have plenty of friends who agree with me. I cant respect math-hammer because it doesn't work agianst an opponent who can think up new strategies during the game (manuverability helps with this but because most ork units are very similar in stats and capabilities you can negate that disadvantage). If you can build a brilliant math-hammer army and then come up with an adaptive strategy during the game then that's exellent but the arguments coming at me assume that the outcome of the game is entirely based on what you put in your army.

Here you're just fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of the discussion. I have a deep and sincere appreciation of creative tactics. There was just an interesting thread about that in the general Discussions forum, actually, including a nice counterintuitive approach to how Orks might deal with a problematic Dreadnought.

But good and creative tactics are not the exclusive property of one player. Online tactical discussions, for the most part, must assume that both players are competent and skillful. When you work from this assumption, you need to go into depth about the other elements of the game. Like list construction, and core general tactics employed in certain types of missions, or against certain types of opponents.

Does that make sense?

**Voodoo Boyz**

I can't say anything more than what's already been said by other competent posters.

Facts are facts, an assault army that only moves 6" a turn, and can't shoot for crap, is doomed to failure in the mobile firepower world of 40k that exists right now. There are no special or super secrete creative tactics that can make up for the fact that even with Rokkits all over the place, you're still BS2, and T4 with a 5+ cover save - and you only move 6" a turn. So unless it's CoD all the time, Orks aren't going to do well against an opponent with half a brain.

Honestly, I've only got a sliver of hope left that the Orks will get a decent rules update in their new codex (lord knows when that's happening), and if they let them fester with the half-assed excuse for rules that they have now, I'm probably going to sell the army.

**Leith**

These are a few of the statements I most strongly disagree with.

The fact that the Warboss strikes before (if he uses his Choppa) or after (if he uses a Powerklaw) any Ork unit he is fighting alongside can be problematic since a smart opponent can often remove casualties to deny either him or the accompanying unit the chance to attack. Your best bet (if possible), is to split the Boss off from the Trukkboy unit when they disembark and have him charge a separate enemy unit on his own (or even an enemy vehicle if he has a Powerklaw).

In the case of the Warboss having a choppa, i dont think it matters all that much if your opponent removes the models in base to base since the warboss is an independant character and therefore counts as a separate unit in close combat and odds are not all of the models engaged with him will also be in base to base with the mob. In the case of the Powerclaw, normally the unit can do more damage to the enemy than the warboss can so it's a moot point if he cant attack. If the enemy cant be damaged as badly by the orks then the odds of the warboss fighting, and smoking a few of the enemy, are pretty good. The bottom line is that in CC casualties are casualties who ever kills more wins and niggling over how many you kill is not generaly going to accomplish anything.

"Do not bother giving the Trukk the Armor Plates upgrade. Instead, the Trukk should always use its 25" move to get to a safe spot out of line of sight of the enemy. Even if this means it will take 2-3 turns to set up the charge, it is fully worth it to keep your Trukk Boy units safe from enemy fire. Being open-topped AV10 and a prime threat to your opponent means that they will always look for ways to shoot your Trukks whenever possible and even a single volley of enemy fire will usually prevent the Trukk from moving (if not destroy it outright).

"Warbuggies. In a pure horde army (that doesn't have 3 Trukk boy units), super cheap Skorcha wartrakks can be taken to harass the enemy and potentially capture objectives (if you keep them hidden for the whole game until the last turn). Again, the only upgrades worth taking are Red Paint Job, Grot Riggers and optionally a Stikkbomb Chukka. Just like with Trukks, the Armor Plates upgrade isn’t a worthwhile purchase as a Skorcha that takes any enemy fire is likely to suffer too many hits for the Armor Plates to ever have a chance of saving."

Armour plates costs 5 points and can potentialy save your vehicle from being utterly anihilated. Id take that chance for only 5 points, I cant see any reason not to, even with whats said above.

"Nob retinue. Nobs are simply too expensive for what they do. They can't be cost effectively made into a shooty unit (as you're always paying points for their amazing CC abilities) and if you take them as a CC unit and put them in a Trukk they will always end up being nearly 300 points (including the Warboss) that can be effectively removed from the game by destroying a single AV10 vehicle. In any type of Ork army you want to stay far, far away from putting all your ‘eggs in one basket’ since every Ork unit is relatively easy to destroy. A Nob mob (especially in a Trukk) is a prime example of this.

" Waaagh! Banner. Costs too many points for an ability that has too small a range. It isn’t terrible, its just there are just better places to put your points"

I like nob retues. Granted they are expensive and in anything larger than 1000 points Id hesitate to take them, but if you kit them out with a 3+ save and a mad doc they can be quite the deadly suprise for anyone not expecting it. At 1000 points Ill spend 300 points for something that can destroy half an army, maybe more if you play your cards right. And that is where the Waaagh! Banner comes in. if you put the retinue in a trukk (not such a bad idea once they have 3+ armour) the banner means they can actually use the waaagh test rules where before they may have flopped.

"Skarboyz. Unfortunately, this is another unit that costs extra points but dies just as easily to enemy fire. Opponents will always target and kill Skarboyz first and the extra two points per model you spent on them will have been wasted. Skarboyz have no place in a foot slogging army. In Cities of Death where they can pop right out of a Sewer and charge they can be deadly, but not in a basic game of 40k. "

I cant say that skarboyz are useless since they are the only ork unit that can choppa a T7 carnifex. Even if they get shot up nice and quick, the distraction can be used to get other units into position to claw the beasts down. ive used them effectively time and time again, with shootas even (which was probably due to the 4x4 table i was on at the time)

"Shoota Boyz. This is a staple unit in many players Ork army and it really shouldn't be given the current rapid-fire rules in 4th edition. At one point less than Slugga Boyz, Shootas are only slighly cheaper. If you want to put some cheaper bodies into the army to soak up initial casualties, stick with taking Attack Squigs in your Slugga Mobs (and/or include some Grot mobs in your army). Shootas are a terrible weapon for Orks because if you want to fire them at their maximum range you have to keep the unit stationary; a concept that doesn't jive with the unit's ability to move and fire it's heavy weapons. Even if a Shoota unit has the luxury of sitting back while the enemy comes towards them, it is still helpful to be able to 'shuffle' the models in the unit around to get a better line of sight or to stay out of charge range of an incoming enemy CC unit. If you really feel the need to take a unit that is worth standing still to fire, stick with Flash Gitz. "

Simply put, flash gits arent cheap. Though not as terrifying to the enemy as sluggas its nice to have a bulk of the army capable of remaining stationary intead of always having to move, recon missions are the ideal time to employ this strategy to deny your opponent the objective if you can. As far as rapid firing is concerned it is better to charge with the boyz, a possibility not even considered above. While they arent as good in combat as a lot of dedicated closecombat troops they are better than the standard group and if they get there with a few choppas or burnas mobbed up all the better.

Burna Boyz. Although taking this unit is a way to get more KFFs into your army, the fact that you're stuck with a small sized mob that can only take Burnas (see the 'Slugga Boy' commentary for why taking Burnas in a foot-slogging unit is a bad idea). Given that most Ork armies regularly use all 6 Troop slots you just can't afford to waste that slot on a unit of Burna boyz in order to get another KFF into the army.

Burna boyz are there for the burnas and the KFF as is said, but the burna boyz dont use them, other mobs usualy will when the burna boyz mob up. Or other mobs might take the bullet alowing the burnas to get to where they are most needed. that said burnas shouldn't go in any other infantry unit since they have the option of taking long ranged weapons. The key thing to keep in mind about the burna and the burna boyz is that they can do pretty much anything (advantage) but only at short range (disadvantage), as with anything you have to find a way around the disadvantages and maximise the advantages.

Warbikes. These units are simply far, far too fragile for their points cost. In almost all cases they will shoot and charge one unit (doing decent damage) before getting wiped out by the enemy. However, just like Stormboyz, this can be compensated for by taking a metric ton of them. In most types of Ork army there simply isn't a place for them.

When you pay the points for a bike you dont pay for it not dying you pay for what it can take with it. I dont know whats going on out there to suggest that bikes will only charge once and be wiped out but it has never, ever happened to me. Target selection is important since they only have their T5 to protect them in CC. If your having trouble with survivability think of using the unit differently than you normaly would, as a screen for the GroPos, or by throwing points at the problem as suggested above.

Big Gunz Battery. These units can have some uses, but none of them are particularly effective. For example, a battery of Lobbas can be used in a horde army along with a Basilisk to rain down indirect fire from out of LOS. However, even at S5 a battery of Lobbas isn't terribly effective with the 4^th edition Indirect fire rules, especially against MEQs. Both Zzap guns and Kannons have fairly short range considering they cannot move and shoot in the same turn and considering the battery counts as a 'large target' for target priority. That means it is incredibly easy for enemy units to target the battery which has to stay within range of enemy fire in order to be in range itself. In general, it is better to use your Heavy Support slots to take either a Looted Vehicle or KillaKans.

You pay for what you get is the principal here. Paying very little for something that has the potential to do a fair ammount of damage is pretty sweet and is the basis of the entire ork army. Put these shmucks in some 4+ terrain and leave em there. If they dont kill anything thats okay too cause you shouldnt be spending an arm and a leg on them in the first place, just so long as they get shot at.

Bionik Arm. The attack provided by the Bionik Arm strikes at a higher Initiative than Orks normally do, and therefore if used on an IC can result in the only enemy model in base contact being removed as a casualty, denying the IC a chance to make the rest of its Attacks.
Kustom Jobs. A character is better off taking a Big Shoota or Rokkit than selecting Kustom Jobs for his Shoota. Taking Kustom Jobs on a Slugga isn't a terrible idea (as it maintains a character's ability to get the +1A with his Powerklaw), but considering the range remains 12" on the Slugga and that Orks have a BS2, it means there are better places to spend your points.

Bionik arms can be used on warboss's or nobs who have two handed weapons to give them an extra ccw. as ive already said killing the guy in base to base before you get to attack is not that huge, unless youre on your own.

Dok's Tools/Grot Orderlies. The only Dok I suggest you take in the army is the Painboss and he should be leading his Cyborks in a Trukk. Since we've already given him a Powerklaw (and perhaps Cybork Body, Bionic Bonce and 'Eavy Armor) we really can't afford to give him Tools and 3 Orderlies to have the chance to heal his Cyborks. Besides, only ten models can fit in the Trukk so you'd have to take less Cyborks to take Orderlies and Cyborks are just too valuable not to take.

If you take a doc take the tools, even if you dont want the orderlies, theyre dirt cheap.

Kombi-Weapons. As with all Combi-weapons in 40k, they simply cost way too many points for a one shot weapon, especially considering that Orks have a BS2. The Kombi-Flamer is obviously the most appealing, but in all cases if a character is going to take a two-handed weapon, it should be a Rokkit or Big Shoota instead.

I like combi-weapons in other armies. they cost the same as the regular weapon cause they are usualy at higher balistic skill and come with a bolter built in. as with orks though the flamers are the best. the other thing is that rokkits and big shootas arent the answer to everything, sometimes a well placed scorcha, like at the front of a trukk mob, can do more damage. Ive found this to work equally well on MEQs and other armies.

Mega Armor/Mega Boosta/Stikkbomb Chukka. I don't recommend taking a Nob retinue (especially in Mega Armor) as they are just too expensive to be effective. Taking Mega Armor for a Nob in a regular mob is also a bad idea, as even with a Mega Boosta he stands a real chance of slowing the unit down especially during a critical charge move. He also loses the ability to get the +1A bonus for his Powerklaw attack in CC. Finally, the mixed armor rules means that the Nob won't be able to even utilize this 2+ armor save in most cases unless his squad is already dead.

Since you can put these guys in trucks it's sometimes useful to put your warboss in this stuff, especialy if he's planing a romp on his own. It also cuts the cost on your standard armour and powerclaw wargear.

.

Big Grabber, Wrecker Ball, Reinforced Ram, Boarding Plank. Too many points for too small a chance at causing damage. Also, the Ork vehicles that can take them are far too easily destroyed to invest more points into them.

Frankly I agree with what's said above, but I just wanted to say that these things are so much fun.

Well I hope I didnt tick off too many people (I dont care actually but it seems polite to say). Thats the major stuff anyway and as Ive already said I see Orks as one of the most balence armies in 40k, I have played mech tau and godzilla nids and countless MEQ armies and I have never lost a game where I thought, "man there is nothing in my army list that can easily or effectily counter that." Apearently that's just me though, which is weird. Ah well, c'est la vie. Well, not mine but someone elses.

**Taoofss**

why would you take 2-3 turns to set up your charge? trukks are opened toped, you should be charging in turn 2.

**yakface**

Posted By Taoofss on 04/22/2007 11:21 PM
why would you take 2-3 turns to set up your charge? trukks are opened toped, you should be charging in turn 2.

Because Trukks are paper-thin and pretty much any enemy unit with ranged attacks can take out a Trukk by firing at it, thereby entangling the Orks inside and rendering the unit nearly useless.

Sure Trukkboyz can charge turn 2 provided they shoot straight up the battlefield on turn 1, but since they have to be deployed out of LOS (just in case you don't get the first turn) unless you're playing with a ton of terrain the odds are there isn't going to be a perfect spot for you to park your Trukk where it is completely out of LOS of the enemy and still set up to charge the next turn.

I strongly advise that you use a few turns to set up your charges, carefully moving your Trukk from terrain piece to terrain piece always trying to stay completely out of LOS from the enemy.

**Taoofss**

Posted By yakface on 04/23/2007 9:06 PM

Posted By Taoofss on 04/22/2007 11:21 PM
why would you take 2-3 turns to set up your charge? trukks are opened toped, you should be charging in turn 2.

Because Trukks are paper-thin and pretty much any enemy unit with ranged attacks can take out a Trukk by firing at it, thereby entangling the Orks inside and rendering the unit nearly useless.

Sure Trukkboyz can charge turn 2 provided they shoot straight up the battlefield on turn 1, but since they have to be deployed out of LOS (just in case you don't get the first turn) unless you're playing with a ton of terrain the odds are there isn't going to be a perfect spot for you to park your Trukk where it is completely out of LOS of the enemy and still set up to charge the next turn.

I strongly advise that you use a few turns to set up your charges, carefully moving your Trukk from terrain piece to terrain piece always trying to stay completely out of LOS from the enemy.

i still dont see how it takes more than one turn to set up a charge. run it behind cover turn one. than move it the full 13 turn 2. disembark 2 inches, charge 6 inches.

**yakface**

Posted By Taoofss on 04/23/2007 9:23 PM

i still dont see how it takes more than one turn to set up a charge. run it behind cover turn one. than move it the full 13 turn 2. disembark 2 inches, charge 6 inches.

Because from much experience I can safely tell you that it is a rare occasion indeed when 25" will take your trukk out from behind its starting hiding spot and get it completely behind another piece of terrain that is also within 15"ish inches of enemy models you want to charge on the following turn.

Trukks don't move over terrain like skimmers, so they get slowed down going around the terrain pieces. Also, the next turn when you want to charge you can't drive through the terrain you're hiding the trukk behind unless you really want to gamble on not rolling a '1' on either of the dangerous terrain rolls.

In fact, 9 times out of ten you can't just drive right up the middle of the board because even if there is some terrain piece to hide behind the enemy will have some sort of mobile shooting that he can use to move around the terrain piece in the middle of the table and put some fire onto your Trukk.

Usually you'll need to set your trukks up on an extreme flank and use the terrain on the edge of the board to sweep around the back edge of the table into the enemy's deployment zone.

**lord_sutekh**

Most well-played shooty armies will have a unit or two that can angle to make a shot "behind" the various midfield terrain pieces, so it makes it really hard to just shove a trukk up there and assume that the frontal coverage will keep it safe. A few extra inches is the difference between an in-the-open shot and a hull-down or nonexistent one.