Posted By Leith on 04/22/2007 9:18 PM
In the case of the Warboss having a choppa, i dont think it matters all that much if your opponent removes the models in base to base since the warboss is an independant character and therefore counts as a separate unit in close combat and odds are not all of the models engaged with him will also be in base to base with the mob. In the case of the Powerclaw, normally the unit can do more damage to the enemy than the warboss can so it's a moot point if he cant attack. If the enemy cant be damaged as badly by the orks then the odds of the warboss fighting, and smoking a few of the enemy, are pretty good. The bottom line is that in CC casualties are casualties who ever kills more wins and niggling over how many you kill is not generaly going to accomplish anything.
Sorry it took me so long to get back to your points, but there were a lot of 'em. I'll address them in a couple of different replies. Here's part one of my reply:
If the Warboss has charged along with a unit, at most he should be in base contact with 2 models, and often only one. Like I said, smart opponents will often remove the 1-2 models in base contact with the Warboss before he gets to strike with his powerklaw.
Obviously if the combat lasts more than one round or if the enemy charges you this can not be an issue, but when the Orks charge this absolutely is a problem if your opponent has half a brain.
As a tactic I suggested that if the right situation presents itself players should consider splitting their Warboss off from the unit to charge a seperate enemy unit. Again, the situation dictates whether this is a good option: Is the enemy unit one the Warboss can handle himself and is there even another unit in charge range?
Regardless I think the advice is solid and I'm confused as to why you'd even attempt to argue against it.
Armour plates costs 5 points and can potentialy save your vehicle from being utterly anihilated. Id take that chance for only 5 points, I cant see any reason not to, even with whats said above.
Like I said in the tactica, Buggies and Trukks will generally suffer multiple damage results from just about any enemy unit firing at them. The odds of the armor plates saving all that damage is next to nothing. Instead, I advocate keeping your AV10, open-topped vehicles completely out of LOS whenever possible.
The point is, if the Trukk or Buggy is taking any fire at all it is almost certainly a goner regardless of whether you have Armor plates or not. And if you're giving armor plates to all your Trukks/buggies the 5 points a piece quickly adds up to a sizable chunk of points that could be better spent elsewhere.
See, that is the point of a tactica (IMO). I'm not saying that Armor plates aren't useful (cause they are) or even that they're useful for 5 points. The point is, if you can play in a style where you don't need the armor plates on your Trukks then you've just saved some points that can be applied elsewhere in the army.
I like nob retues. Granted they are expensive and in anything larger than 1000 points Id hesitate to take them, but if you kit them out with a 3+ save and a mad doc they can be quite the deadly suprise for anyone not expecting it. At 1000 points Ill spend 300 points for something that can destroy half an army, maybe more if you play your cards right. And that is where the Waaagh! Banner comes in. if you put the retinue in a trukk (not such a bad idea once they have 3+ armour) the banner means they can actually use the waaagh test rules where before they may have flopped.
3+ armor save? That means you're clocking in at a 38 point model
before giving them any weaponry. Depending on how many Nobs you're advocating we're talking about a 400-500 point unit. To get them to wipe out half an army I think you'd have to do better than "play your cards right", I contend your opponent would have to have a pretty pathetic army and not realize the huge danger the Nob Trukk represents.
You've mentioned that Orks take imagination to play well, yet you seem to think that your opponent won't share the same type of imagination. Most opponents will have some sort of guess weapon, psychic power that shoots through terrain, or fast moving unit that can destroy the Nob Trukk before it can unload its cargo.
By sinking 300-400 points into a single unit can effectively be taken out of the game by destroying an open-topped AV10 vehicle is basically hinging the whole game on whether or not the opponent destroys that Trukk before the Nobs can charge out of it.
Personally, that's not the kind of gameplan I advocate because it completely puts the outcome of the game into your opponents hands: if they can destroy that Trukk they pretty much win. I don't like giving my opponents that kind of power so I believe it is important to evenly spread around the destructiveness of the army so they can't eliminate any of the threats with a single blow.
I cant say that skarboyz are useless since they are the only ork unit that can choppa a T7 carnifex. Even if they get shot up nice and quick, the distraction can be used to get other units into position to claw the beasts down. ive used them effectively time and time again, with shootas even (which was probably due to the 4x4 table i was on at the time)
How can they be anything but easy points for your opponent? They are too slow to be a distraction. If you have Trukk boyz a smart opponent will destroy the Trukk boyz first and still have time to shoot the Skarboyz to death before they get anywhere near them.
It really is a simple formula: If a CC unit costs more points than another CC unit in the army but is just as slow and easy to destroy, why won't the enemy just kill them first? They will, so the only option becomes to take an army so full of the more expensive unit hoping to overwhelm the enemy with sheer numbers.
Of course a more expensive base model means less bodies in the unit (and army), so you have to ask yourself is the tradeoff for offensive power worth the loss of bodies?
Well, in my experience with playing an Ork horde, if the horde reaches the enemy it usually doesn't have any problem doing enough damage to wipe out whatever they face between the Nobs' powerklaws and all the boyz choppa attacks. The real issue is whether the opponent will do enough damage to keep the boyz out of charge range (and does the mission allow the enemy to keep backing away from the horde to stay out of combat).
So I contend that more bodies (Slugga boyz) are a better bet than offensive ability (Skarboyz) 98% of the time. I agree that if you knew you were facing a bunch of T7 Carnifexes you'd want an army full of Skarboyz, but my tactica isn't written for specific army matchups like that, it is clearly targeted for making a 'take all comers' style army.
More to come. . .
) but I still want to share my experience (altough it can't be as much as, for example, the experience of yakface.....I mean....king of zoats? wow you must be ooooooooold 
)