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2014/02/20 15:53:14
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
Hey jy2, this is a list I changed from yesterday, whats your opinion on it?
1850
Flyrant w/Reaper and HVC, HC, Electroshock
Flyrant w/LW/BS and HVC, HC, toxin sacs, Electroshock
Tervigon
30 gants (no devs, 30 shots vs 50)
6 Warriors w/rending claws, devourers, barbed strangler and LW/BS (outflank)
Mawloc
Biovore brood x2
Crone
Crone
Crone (Harpy could stay and give Tyrants AG with minor tweaks)
Are the Tyrants top heavy in this list? Yes. But played 'properly' aggressive, they are flexible enough to vector or shoot tanks, shock tanks, or strength 5 template troops, and then assault targets of opportunity. The AG option ensures assaults and allows instant death on a lot of tough marine leaders.
A lot of points to put into 2 HQ's, but augmented with the three other fliers they are pretty damaging.
Spoiler:
If you want to play your flyrants from range (with HVC's), that's fine. They'll probably live just a little bit longer....as in 1 turn longer. However, to beat the top armies, you need volume-of-fire. Quality of shots is not as effective as quantity of shots. That's why personally, I prefer the brainleech devourers. Yeah, you have to put them more in harms way, but if you coordinate your attacks together with the rest of your army, I feel that you can have a more devastating beta-strike on Turn 2. It really boils down to how you would like to play them - either more aggressively or more conservatively.
I don't believe you need 3 crones. 2 is the most that I would use. The reason is that the crone is more of a niche unit rather than a flexible mainstay of the army. FMC-spam tyranids on the whole is a somewhat unbalanced army. While FMC-bugs is strong, you will come up to certain matchups who really don't care all that much for flyer-overload. Thus, I'd go no more than 4 flyers in my list (2 flyrants + 2 crones) and invest the rest of the points into a stronger ground presence. In other words, I'd prefer to take 2 crones + 2 mawlocs over 3 crones/harpy combo + 1 mawloc
JY2, Could you expand on this a bit. What sort of matchups should Bug Flying Circus(BFC) fear. I've been paying attention to my local meta, and the only list I've seen that made me fear was an IG player who claimed he ran 3 hydras, 2 Vendettas and an Aegis with a Quad Gun, but that list is clearly tailored to be anti-flyer, and he didn't seem like a very confident player. The 9 skyfire broadsides + buffmander list is probably going to kill any other 'nid build nearly as effectively as it can kill BFC.
BFC seems like it can handle Mech better than most other Tyranid builds, and most of the lists that can beat it can also beat other 'nid builds just as well. Is there a Tyranid list that is good while not being unbalanced?
Also, have you decided that Mawlocs are the way to go for Heavy Support? I'm still interested in trying a 3 Exocrine list, and a 9 biovore list (carpet bombing), but am finding myself increasingly falling into this camp. Mawlocs + BFC seem like the (only?) way to give Tyranids mobility to compete with modern lists.
I don't take 3 hive crone lists for the same reason I don't run triple-heldrake lists either. These lists are unbalanced. They tend to perform really well against certain armies but poorly against others. Triple-heldrake lists are killer against horde MEQ/GEQ builds but will have problems against massed 2+ armies, or anti-meta armies like daemons or wraithwing necrons. Same with triple-hive crone lists. They will do good against many armies, but they will have particular armies where they won't perform as well:
Wraithwing/AV13 Necrons
Riptide + broadside or skyray Tau
Shooty Daemons (i.e. Tzeentch Flickering Fire FMC-spam)
Shooty Draigowing
Autocannon-spam armies
Mechdar
IG Air Cav
Triple-stormraven armies
Personally, I'd prefer to trade in the 3rd flyer for some more support units (i.e. bastion, to fit a tervigon+30 gants into my troops, perhaps Hive Commander), but that's because I like to run a slightly more balanced Tyranid list utilizing more force-multipliers (psychic heavy + synapse support).
I like Mawlocs, but I also don't believe any list should take more than 2. My final Tyranid list will have 2 hive crones and 2 mawlocs.
Now I'm not saying triple-hive crone/triple-mawloc lists can't work. Oftentimes, they can and they will. They may even work better against some of the more extreme lists that Tyranids usually have problems against (i.e. venom-spam DE, lots of Tau/Eldar builds). The only problem with extreme builds like this is that they become more and more RPS armies. Meet the right army and you can potentially dominate. Meet the wrong one and you are out of the tournament.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
PrinceRaven wrote: The problem is our troops are weak when it comes to late scoring. Everything is either overpriced, runs away, kills each other then runs away, can't score, or a Tervigon.
barnowl wrote: Not really, I think right now everyone is looking for the one or 2 builds that will be across the board effective or have the least hard counters. I would not say we have found any good competitive builds yet. Just that the T2 Tsunami and the dakkawall are looking to be the most viable.
In your view would a competitive list at a minimum be one that is able to match it with the current GT winning lists?
I'm not sure we can match with a current GT winning lists, at least not on equal footings.
We can give them a good fight. We can even beat them on occasions, but make no mistake, we will almost always be underdogs in these types of matchups.
barnowl wrote: Not really, I think right now everyone is looking for the one or 2 builds that will be across the board effective or have the least hard counters. I would not say we have found any good competitive builds yet. Just that the T2 Tsunami and the dakkawall are looking to be the most viable.
In your view would a competitive list at a minimum be one that is able to match it with the current GT winning lists?
I would say it is a list that can reliably old its own it against the majority of net list out there. (DE are ignored for this, I don't think we can really handle that much poison shooting)
Iechine wrote: Hey jy2, this is a list I changed from yesterday, whats your opinion on it?
1850 Flyrant w/Reaper and HVC, HC, Electroshock Flyrant w/LW/BS and HVC, HC, toxin sacs, Electroshock Tervigon 30 gants (no devs, 30 shots vs 50) 6 Warriors w/rending claws, devourers, barbed strangler and LW/BS (outflank) Mawloc Biovore brood x2 Crone Crone Crone (Harpy could stay and give Tyrants AG with minor tweaks)
Are the Tyrants top heavy in this list? Yes. But played 'properly' aggressive, they are flexible enough to vector or shoot tanks, shock tanks, or strength 5 template troops, and then assault targets of opportunity. The AG option ensures assaults and allows instant death on a lot of tough marine leaders.
A lot of points to put into 2 HQ's, but augmented with the three other fliers they are pretty damaging.
[spoiler]If you want to play your flyrants from range (with HVC's), that's fine. They'll probably live just a little bit longer....as in 1 turn longer. However, to beat the top armies, you need volume-of-fire. Quality of shots is not as effective as quantity of shots. That's why personally, I prefer the brainleech devourers. Yeah, you have to put them more in harms way, but if you coordinate your attacks together with the rest of your army, I feel that you can have a more devastating beta-strike on Turn 2. It really boils down to how you would like to play them - either more aggressively or more conservatively. I don't believe you need 3 crones. 2 is the most that I would use. The reason is that the crone is more of a niche unit rather than a flexible mainstay of the army. FMC-spam tyranids on the whole is a somewhat unbalanced army. While FMC-bugs is strong, you will come up to certain matchups who really don't care all that much for flyer-overload. Thus, I'd go no more than 4 flyers in my list (2 flyrants + 2 crones) and invest the rest of the points into a stronger ground presence. In other words, I'd prefer to take 2 crones + 2 mawlocs over 3 crones/harpy combo + 1 mawloc
JY2, Could you expand on this a bit. What sort of matchups should Bug Flying Circus(BFC) fear. I've been paying attention to my local meta, and the only list I've seen that made me fear was an IG player who claimed he ran 3 hydras, 2 Vendettas and an Aegis with a Quad Gun, but that list is clearly tailored to be anti-flyer, and he didn't seem like a very confident player. The 9 skyfire broadsides + buffmander list is probably going to kill any other 'nid build nearly as effectively as it can kill BFC.
BFC seems like it can handle Mech better than most other Tyranid builds, and most of the lists that can beat it can also beat other 'nid builds just as well. Is there a Tyranid list that is good while not being unbalanced?
I don't take 3 hive crone lists for the same reason I don't run triple-heldrake lists either. These lists are unbalanced. They tend to perform really well against certain armies but poorly against others. Triple-heldrake lists are killer against horde MEQ/GEQ builds but will have problems against massed 2+ armies, or anti-meta armies like daemons or wraithwing necrons. Same with triple-hive crone lists. They will do good against many armies, but they will have particular armies where they won't perform as well:
Wraithwing/AV13 Necrons Riptide + broadside or skyray Tau Shooty Daemons (i.e. Tzeentch Flickering Fire FMC-spam) Shooty Draigowing Autocannon-spam armies Mechdar IG Air Cav Triple-stormraven armies
Personally, I'd prefer to trade in the 3rd flyer for some more support units (i.e. bastion, to fit a tervigon+30 gants into my troops, perhaps Hive Commander), but that's because I like to run a slightly more balanced Tyranid list utilizing more force-multipliers (psychic heavy + synapse support).
I don't mean to be overly argumentative, and I ceded that you are a better more experienced player than me, but could you explain how dropping 1 Crone for 155 points of Gaunts or Zthropes or 1/2 of a Tervigon+terv tax balances the list. I acknowledge that 3 Crones is a RPS build, but it seems that 2 Crones is also a RPS build. In your Chaos example, you can take allies to give you an efficient way to spend the points you've saved. We don't have that in 'nids.
At 1850 (My most common size), you can run a list like this: Flyrant (wings, 2 TL Devourers) Flyrant (wings, 2 TL Devourers)
ZThrope - Support / Synapse.
Tervigon - Support 30 TGaunts - Terv Tax 11 TGaunts - Backfield scoring
Crone Crone Crone
Mawloc Mawloc Mawloc
Bastion + Comms - Support, force multiplier.
Sure, you could drop a Crone and Mawloc and add an outflanking unit of Devil Gaunts, but is that army actually more balanced? Which of those scary lists will it perform better against?
jy2 wrote: I like Mawlocs, but I also don't believe any list should take more than 2. My final Tyranid list will have 2 hive crones and 2 mawlocs.
Do you have plans to fill your other heavy support slot, or are you leaving it empty? At first glance the Heavy slot is an embarrassment of riches, but upon playtesting, it is the Mawlocs that are always coming up big for me, because the other options lack mobility. Give me Deepstriking / Scouting / Outflanking Cfexes or TFexes, and we are talking, but as is, Mawloc seems like the way to go.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/20 17:19:22
2014/02/20 17:56:06
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
tag8833 wrote: I don't mean to be overly argumentative, and I ceded that you are a better more experienced player than me, but could you explain how dropping 1 Crone for 155 points of Gaunts or Zthropes or 1/2 of a Tervigon+terv tax balances the list. I acknowledge that 3 Crones is a RPS build, but it seems that 2 Crones is also a RPS build. In your Chaos example, you can take allies to give you an efficient way to spend the points you've saved. We don't have that in 'nids.
At 1850 (My most common size), you can run a list like this:
Flyrant (wings, 2 TL Devourers)
Flyrant (wings, 2 TL Devourers)
ZThrope - Support / Synapse.
Tervigon - Support
30 TGaunts - Terv Tax
11 TGaunts - Backfield scoring
Crone
Crone
Crone
Mawloc
Mawloc
Mawloc
Bastion + Comms - Support, force multiplier.
Sure, you could drop a Crone and Mawloc and add an outflanking unit of Devil Gaunts, but is that army actually more balanced? Which of those scary lists will it perform better against?
jy2 wrote: I like Mawlocs, but I also don't believe any list should take more than 2. My final Tyranid list will have 2 hive crones and 2 mawlocs.
Do you have plans to fill your other heavy support slot, or are you leaving it empty? At first glance the Heavy slot is an embarrassment of riches, but upon playtesting, it is the Mawlocs that are always coming up big for me, because the other options lack mobility. Give me Deepstriking / Scouting / Outflanking Cfexes or TFexes, and we are talking, but as is, Mawloc seems like the way to go.
Personally, I prefer to drop the 3rd crone to fit in a venomthrope + change.
If I drop both the mawloc + crone, I can perhaps fit in a unit of 2 dakkafexes. Though dakkafexes tend to be much slower, they also tend to perform more consistently for me than the hive crones or mawlocs. They also give me a stronger ground presence and if you get Onslaught, their lack of speed is not as noticeable. Mainly, they give me the volume-of-fire that both the flyers and the mawlocs lack and that is what you need against many of the top armies.
Or dropping the mawloc + crone can give me a venomthrope, 3 biovores and some gargoyles. Biovores are solid against the top-tier armies (Tau/Eldar) and is a force-multiplier unit as well, helping to screw with enemy deployment as well as to restrict enemy movement as well.
Each build is different. I am moving away somewhat from a pure Threat Overload Tyranid build to more of an Overload list with force-multiplier support. I'm not saying one list is better than the other - only time will tell which will be more successful. Partially from my own experiences and partially because of my growing preference to play more balanced lists, but I have never seen a triple-heldrake army, a pure Necron Airforce or many of the other extreme lists succeed in tournament play (at least not on the GT-level where they have to play 5-8 games). The only exception is FMC-spam daemons, which has won a GT before. Currently, the best lists are all ones that rely either on force-multiplication - Seer Councils, Beaststar, Ovesa-star Tau, FMC-daemons - or are really balanced - White Scars, wraithwing necrons. Of these lists, necrons are probably one of the more brute-force armies, but they are an army that is also extremely balanced as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/20 17:57:47
Personally, I think lists that want crones get stronger as they add crones and lose flyrants....you're really making your force overly redundant...why not take your flyrants out and add more force multipliers?
I think that shooting is where he loses his effectiveness...when you have crones in a list...when I take two crones I take one flyrant and I make him an MC hunter, as wraithknights, riptides and some daemons are your only challenges...it doesn't take much to outmatch them.
The flyrant is only seen as so effective shooting wise because its commonly seen as necessary...without armor to pop...I don't find 12 s6 shots to be very much worth the points.
Here's the 1750pt nod list I'm working on. I'm undefeated with it after 5 games (one of them was eldar) I find if I play tactically well I can steamroll people if not I can still manage to claw victory away.
HQ Dakka flyrant
Dakka flyrant
ELITES
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope
TROOPS
10 gants
30 gants
Tervigon
Cluster spines, regeneration
FAST ATTACK
Hive crone
Hive crone
HEAVY SUPPORT
Mawloc
Mawloc
3 biovores
Fortification
Bastion w/comms relay
2014/02/20 19:14:27
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
ductvader wrote: I think that shooting is where he loses his effectiveness...when you have crones in a list...when I take two crones I take one flyrant and I make him an MC hunter, as wraithknights, riptides and some daemons are your only challenges...it doesn't take much to outmatch them.
The flyrant is only seen as so effective shooting wise because its commonly seen as necessary...without armor to pop...I don't find 12 s6 shots to be very much worth the points.
The flyrant does more than to just shoot, but I can't blame you if you aren't having much success with them. They're pretty much a finesse unit nowadays and pretty quick to down by an opponent who has his target priorities straight. To me, they are absolutely vital for a Tyranid army to compete against the top armies, but it's ok for people to run other HQ's depending on the types of Tyranid lists they want to run.
BTW, that's 24 TL-S6 shots with dual flyrants. It may not seem much, but it adds up.
bobmgee wrote: Here's the 1750pt nod list I'm working on. I'm undefeated with it after 5 games (one of them was eldar) I find if I play tactically well I can steamroll people if not I can still manage to claw victory away.
HQ Dakka flyrant
Dakka flyrant
ELITES
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope
TROOPS
10 gants
30 gants
Tervigon
Cluster spines, regeneration
FAST ATTACK
Hive crone
Hive crone
HEAVY SUPPORT
Mawloc
Mawloc
3 biovores
Fortification
Bastion w/comms relay
This is pretty much the list that I am building towards (except I'd swap out regen for Hive Commander). It's not a pure MTO Tyranid list, but IMO it is a better TAC Tyranid army than a triple-crones/triple-mawlocs build.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
DarkStarSabre wrote: Well now. Going to get my first proper 2500 point game some point within the next few weeks against a friend's Dark Angels.
I shall play with the double force orgs and figure out a way to balance the swarm as I see fit. It will include my new purchases too.
When I get to double-FOC's, I'd love to run quad-flyrants.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/02/20 19:35:29
The flyrant does more than to just shoot, but I can't blame you if you aren't having much success with them. They're pretty much a finesse unit nowadays and pretty quick to down by an opponent who has his target priorities straight.
I have plenty of success with flyrants...I just find that many other choices offer even greater results...this is taking into account that you're running two crones.
Since the store decided to shoot me down - allowing Escalation and Stronghold Assault but not allowing Dataslates or Formations (thus scuppering my dream of the Typhus-Cypher army) I figure I may as well give the bugs some love.
Probably going to get murdered by Heldrake-Riptide-Wraithknight spam and also finding that 1500 points is tiny.
bobmgee wrote: Here's the 1750pt nod list I'm working on. I'm undefeated with it after 5 games (one of them was eldar) I find if I play tactically well I can steamroll people if not I can still manage to claw victory away.
HQ Dakka flyrant
Dakka flyrant
ELITES
Zoanthrope
Venomthrope
TROOPS
10 gants
30 gants
Tervigon
Cluster spines, regeneration
FAST ATTACK
Hive crone
Hive crone
HEAVY SUPPORT
Mawloc
Mawloc
3 biovores
Fortification
Bastion w/comms relay
This is pretty much the list that I am building towards (except I'd swap out regen for Hive Commander). It's not a pure MTO Tyranid list, but IMO it is a better TAC Tyranid army than a triple-crones/triple-mawlocs build.
I like this list, but wonder what you plan to outflank with Hive commander? The Gaunts? The Naked Tervigon?
Since the store decided to shoot me down - allowing Escalation and Stronghold Assault but not allowing Dataslates or Formations (thus scuppering my dream of the Typhus-Cypher army) I figure I may as well give the bugs some love.
Probably going to get murdered by Heldrake-Riptide-Wraithknight spam and also finding that 1500 points is tiny.
Inside range of the gun means inside charge range, and they're only wounded on a 5+.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2014/02/20 21:46:34
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
I'm excited to try this list out over the weekend, it's my alternative to the 1850 I ran in the tournament last week and this one sounds like a lot of fun.
The two outflanking warrior broods are objective grabbers and headhunters, the other brood holds my objective or moves up.
I'm tempted to trade a lot of the 22 gant unit for a Lictor but am frightened of easily giving up 1st blood. Either way, the AG Tyrants sound even better than what I've been running and it will be nice to know Im getting into that charge when I need it, as well as having more attacks for vehicle killing with the Reaper Tyrant reaching strength 8.
Iechine wrote: I'm excited to try this list out over the weekend, it's my alternative to the 1850 I ran in the tournament last week and this one sounds like a lot of fun.
The two outflanking warrior broods are objective grabbers and headhunters, the other brood holds my objective or moves up.
I'm tempted to trade a lot of the 22 gant unit for a Lictor but am frightened of easily giving up 1st blood. Either way, the AG Tyrants sound even better than what I've been running and it will be nice to know Im getting into that charge when I need it, as well as having more attacks for vehicle killing with the Reaper Tyrant reaching strength 8.
If I may?
I would recommend switching the HVCs from the flyrants to the Harpies, you'd save 30 points, gain twin-linked and get an extra attack out of both flyrants. I'd also consider losing deathspitters on the outflankers and saving the 20 points, which would free you up for your lictor... I've never found 6x bs3 s5 ap5 shots to do much at all. Just my 2 cents.
jy2 wrote: *snip*
Not too bad with the venom-in-a-box strategy.
I'm finding AP2/3 shooting armies aren't as bad nowadays as they used to be thanks to the venomthrope.
However, what kills us are massed S6-7 shooting the likes of what Eldar, Tau and Necrons can put out.
Answer: The Tyrannofex! The BastionThrope build is working for me so far, and in all the theory hammer I've run is very good defensively. A Tyrannofex however is insanely hard to kill through non-poisoned weight of fire, and auto-spam/Tesla-spam/Flickering Fire/HYMP are all going to struggle, while the TFex plows on. Give it a 3+ cover and it will take an insane amount of concentrated firepower to take out (or just Tau shenanigans. Kill the Markerlights!)
2014/02/21 02:09:21
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
I'll be there too but not to partake, I cant play all day. (Assuming you're going to Bowie bunker)
Cool. I'll have to make a point to find the table full of orange Tyranids and say hi.
@Jy2: Have you tried out Trygon Primes much, or have you been sticking pretty exclusively to Mawlocs? I have two Trygons and one Mawloc and I'm wondering how much I'm hindering myself (if at all) by running them as Prime, Prime, Mawloc when I could save 90 points by going Prime, Mawloc, Mawloc.
I'd just rebuild the darn thing as a Mawloc except I bought 'em used so I don't have the extra bits.
2014/02/21 02:33:29
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
PrinceRaven wrote: The problem is our troops are weak when it comes to late scoring. Everything is either overpriced, runs away, kills each other then runs away, can't score, or a Tervigon.
Hey! What's wrong with being a tervigon?
Being expensive and not really contributing much beyond Synapse and scoring? I like taking one, I just find it hard to justify taking more than that as I'd be cutting away points from other vital areas of my list.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/02/21 03:12:35
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
2014/02/21 07:58:34
Subject: Re:The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
I'll be there too but not to partake, I cant play all day. (Assuming you're going to Bowie bunker)
Cool. I'll have to make a point to find the table full of orange Tyranids and say hi.
@Jy2: Have you tried out Trygon Primes much, or have you been sticking pretty exclusively to Mawlocs? I have two Trygons and one Mawloc and I'm wondering how much I'm hindering myself (if at all) by running them as Prime, Prime, Mawloc when I could save 90 points by going Prime, Mawloc, Mawloc.
I'd just rebuild the darn thing as a Mawloc except I bought 'em used so I don't have the extra bits.
I don't think you'll have any on call you out on it. Just say it's mouth is closed.
I'll be there too but not to partake, I cant play all day. (Assuming you're going to Bowie bunker)
Cool. I'll have to make a point to find the table full of orange Tyranids and say hi.
@Jy2: Have you tried out Trygon Primes much, or have you been sticking pretty exclusively to Mawlocs? I have two Trygons and one Mawloc and I'm wondering how much I'm hindering myself (if at all) by running them as Prime, Prime, Mawloc when I could save 90 points by going Prime, Mawloc, Mawloc.
I'd just rebuild the darn thing as a Mawloc except I bought 'em used so I don't have the extra bits.
I don't think you'll have any on call you out on it. Just say it's mouth is closed.
At the very worst..
...and make your Trygons be Mawlocs and your Mawlocs be Trygons.
Inside range of the gun means inside charge range, and they're only wounded on a 5+.
I'm pretty sure Centurions come with Heavy Bolters as well,
Graviton Cannons replace Heavy Bolters.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
2014/02/21 19:42:12
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
Mrf. Tyrant Guard continue to bug me. They should either be cheaper (Say, 40 pts each) or have 3 wounds. That they're up-armored Warriors but easier to splat (Well, easier-ish, since +2 T and 3+ vs 4+ save, but -1W) bothers me.
Also, I *almost* want to take a unit of them that doesn't run around with a Tyrant, just letting themp stomp around on their own, see what happens.
But not at 50 pts per 2 wound model. *grump*
2014/02/21 21:33:03
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
Since the store decided to shoot me down - allowing Escalation and Stronghold Assault but not allowing Dataslates or Formations (thus scuppering my dream of the Typhus-Cypher army) I figure I may as well give the bugs some love.
Probably going to get murdered by Heldrake-Riptide-Wraithknight spam and also finding that 1500 points is tiny.
...Now, in fairness the Dakkafexes are something I am falling in love with more and more. The sheer amount of fire they put out is painful.
The foot Tyrant is something I fancied trying - just to add more Devourer fire and a HVC for some long range, early anti-tank shots.
Tervigon and Termagaunts are self explanatory.
Single Venoms and Zoey are also self explanatory.
I realise now this looks a bit like 'nidzilla. That makes me feel fuzzy.
I like where you are going with this, but Walkrants always feel naked without a Tyrant Guard. I would drop the Zoey for one.
Mmm. I'm a bit hit and miss with that. I suppose I could drop the Zoey for the Tyrant guard but then I'd feel a bit naked for Psykers and Synapse...wait...why would I? Tervigon and 2 Tyrants, that's 14 T6 wounds and 5 Mastery levels right there - I likely will take the Primaris for the Tervigon (to make a bigger Synapse bubble) but I suppose I will be really hoping for Onslaught and Catalyst for the others.
Scary and fun thought about that 1500 point list...
The Tyrants and Carnifexes put out 54 twin linked S6 shots - I was worried about flyers until I realised that 18 inches is a death sentence for anything with AV 12 or less that comes in range.
For the record - the Termagants will be a 50/50 mix of Spinefists and Fleshborers - depending on what I face will determine what I will want to put forward as fodder first...spinefists being better against GEQ and MCs and Fleshborers being better against light vehicles and Marine equivalents.
Now only a CSM player.
2014/02/21 23:11:12
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
For the record - the Termagants will be a 50/50 mix of Spinefists and Fleshborers - depending on what I face will determine what I will want to put forward as fodder first...spinefists being better against GEQ and MCs and Fleshborers being better against light vehicles and Marine equivalents.
Spinefists and Fleshborers are the same against T4, Fleshborers are only superior against T5, T7 and AV10
2014/02/21 23:12:59
Subject: The Strengths of the NEW Tyranids - The Foundation for Competitive Tyranids (Battle Report p.49)
For the record - the Termagants will be a 50/50 mix of Spinefists and Fleshborers - depending on what I face will determine what I will want to put forward as fodder first...spinefists being better against GEQ and MCs and Fleshborers being better against light vehicles and Marine equivalents.
Spinefists and Fleshborers are the same against T4, Fleshborers are only superior against T5, T7 and AV10
So, Marine equivalents - after seeing the LVO Marine lists I can't pretend Marines exist that are not mounted on bikes and thus T5
.....Bay Area Open GT 2013 - Best Tyranids 
.....LVO GT 2014 Team Tournament - Best Generals
