New Tau Release: Stormsurge, Ghostkeel, Coldstar, Breachers, Crisis, Tidewall!. Codex coming!

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**Lythrandire Biehrellian**

The issue is, the heirophant is 90 points too expensive. Putting it at 910 points. If the ta'unar is only 900 points then you are saying it is slightly less powerful than the biotitan... That simply isn't the case. Better survivability, MUCH better armament, the biotitan only shows its true potential when you realise it is swinging at initiative 6 with a weapon skill not seen on any gargantuan creature or superheavy walker of its size outside of a few greater daemons.

Forge world only sometimes makes things pay for the excessive range on their weapons, while that does make some sense due to normal table size limitations, the fact is that when a gun has a statistical advantage it should pay handsomely for said advantage.

**spectreoneone**

Nocturus wrote:O'Kais is mentioned in the Farsight Enclave book as one of the students of Puretide that was put into stasis along with Shadowsun, so it isn't too far fetched to think he might make his way into an actual model. I would have like to have seen the 8 from the farsight book be allowed to be special character options on their own for the enclave book without taking farsight himself.

The O'Kais mentioned in the FE book is also in the main Codex. His victories lead to the establishment of the Fi'rios Sept.

Vector Strike wrote:
Zelnik wrote:
Doing the math, the Stormsurge is inefficient and on the whole, a poor choice for a LOW slot when compared to the other Tau Battlesuit LOW, the Ta'unar.

First, your basic Stormsurge is 360 points base, 375 with the viable weapon option (lets not fool ourselves, the pulse blastgun is a waste of time). Not including any sort of support system and we can expect them to easily fill the 25 points to a nice round 400 points per suit.

Alone, the Stormsurge has one single battlefield role. It sits in the back and shoots destructo-disks. Every other weapon it has, from the rocket pods to the Nerf-rockets really won't do anything of value aside from kill a few troops or put wounds on MC's. By shooting templates you get over its terrible BS, and you have a reasonable hope of hitting SOMETHING (That short range D shot relies on BS3, good luck).

The weapon itself, (pulse driver) is NOT A BAD GUN. It's a long range demolisher cannon that can fire twice. Nothing to be upset about. Everything -else- about the suit is basically useless unless you are shooting at scrub-based infantry. In which case, you will be getting a kill here and there (The SMS is the only thing that ignores cover.)

The stats of the vehicle have been resoundingly ridiculed by everyone here, so I don't really need to go over it. Everyone here knows that if you take just one of these, expect it to die by turn 2 from deep strikers, battle cannons and missile launchers.

Yes, we don't know what options it will have, and we can expect some kind of invul, but it will be expensive.

In order to compete against other LOW, you need more then one. A knight titan or wraith knight can gun-kata across the board and kill the Stormsurge and suffer maybe three wounds as a result. The Blastgun option MAY save you, but if you somehow get spectacularly lucky and land a Destroyer hit, you probably had to move your Stormsurge out of cover to do it, and now it's a sitting duck.

Already the stormsurge outprices the Wraith Knight and most of the Knight Titans for a single model. To compete you need a second one. For around 800 points, you now outprice most other lords of war so you can shoot two more destructo-disks a round. This is not a viable option. Also note that the destructo-disks don't have ignores cover.

The hilariously offensive Destroyer missiles... wow there are no words, the description of accuracy was laughable due to the BS3.

Take into consideration that you can take unlimited wraith knights at 300 points, each a monster in CC, t8, and can shoot two D attacks at 36 a round.

Now lets look at the Ta'unar.

600 points, so about the cost of 1.5 Stormsurges. For the additional 200 points, you pay for great armor, amazing toughness, more wounds, a great invul and most importantly BS4. This thing no longer relies on markerlights to survive.

In the shooting phase, this sucker can drop a 7 inch D blast at 72, great range and quite effective. It's other option is an Apoc Barrage, ignores cover 8/3 pain train (three rolls on the template). Also great because it doesn't require LOS to drop on your enemy. This right here completely invalidates the primary weapon options of the stormsurge.

Secondary weapons are 60 inch tri-axis ion cannons that have two firing modes, 12 shots of 7/3 or 6 shots of 9/2. Both are great choices, one becoming a tank hunting shot. If you want, flip it out for a fusion eradicator for 10 wonderful st 8 ap 1 melta shots at 24 (you give up a lot of range, but it's wonderful against vehicles).
So, it completely invalidates the pathetic destroyer missiles. Better shots, no single use.

Now the defensive weapons. Not only do they let the thing shoot overwatch, but you get 24 TL 5/5 shots. Same number as the max number of shots the rocket pod can get, albeit at less range.

This firepower is easily worth two Stormsurges, and I could make the argument that it's more effective then three storm surges for a fraction of the cost. Seriously.

Best part is right here.

The cost of the Stormsurge is going to be about 150 bucks. Two are 300. Not including taxes.

The Ta'unar? about 350.

Save the money, buy the Ta'unar, destroy your enemies with a real artillary suit.

Completely agree. I'll get a Ta'unar when the dollar/real exchange gets better (probably by the end of next year). Still, I'll proxy the Stormsurge to see if it really is as lame as it sounds for now. Nothing beats a good field test

That's all fine and good...but this assessment is in a vacuum. Tau are a combined-arms army...each unit has a role to fill, and many cannot operate alone. If you add markerlights into the equation (either in the form of Pathfinders, Stealth Suits with their ML drones, a Skyray, or even a Razorshark), you are presented with a very powerful asset on the field. Remember, it can fire its different weapons at separate targets, too. This is not an offensive weapon; it's a support weapon. Put it behind cover, bubble wrap it with FWs, and flank with your Riptides or XV8s.

**Mr Morden**

Co'tor Shas wrote:
It's certainly not 1000+ points. 800-900 range. It's still undercosted though.

Basically getting a free Stormsurge with every one of these.........?

**reds8n**

http://trade.games-workshop.com/?page_id=796

Best Seller 1 (removed): Tau Fire Warrior team

Best Seller 1 (removed): Tau Crisis Battlesuit Team

so .. reboxing of them at least then ?

**TheNewBlood**

reds8n wrote:
http://trade.games-workshop.com/?page_id=796

Best Seller 1 (removed): Tau Fire Warrior team

Best Seller 1 (removed): Tau Crisis Battlesuit Team

so .. reboxing of them at least then ?

At the very least, this is a sign that these models will be reboxed. Taken into account with the pictures that have been spoiled so far, as you'd be forgiven for suspecting that new kits might be on the way.

**Vector Strike**

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:The ta'unar is undercosted to an extent that makes the wraithknight seem tame. That monster is a 1000+ point behemoth that you only pay 600 points for. A twin double turbolaser destructor warhound is only 200 points off, the wraithknight is 100.

The storm surge is in fact appropriately priced, it just doesn't have a specialist position statistically. You are paying points for a variety of weapons systems that aren't designed to target the same units, and are redundant in most tau armies.

If you only had the giant gun on top, you would be able to knock about 50-60 points off of this surge, it still wouldn't compare to the supremancy, but the only units that do in regards to being undercosted are double pulsar phantom titans and turbolaser reavers.

It's not even close to 1000p range; it's the Hierophant that is overcosted. Ta'unar isn't as powerful as a 2xTurbolaser Warhound Titan, so no reason to cost more than it. 700p and it'd be ok. Wraithknight costs less than 300p, not 500p.

spectreoneone wrote:
That's all fine and good...but this assessment is in a vacuum. Tau are a combined-arms army...each unit has a role to fill, and many cannot operate alone. If you add markerlights into the equation (either in the form of Pathfinders, Stealth Suits with their ML drones, a Skyray, or even a Razorshark), you are presented with a very powerful asset on the field. Remember, it can fire its different weapons at separate targets, too. This is not an offensive weapon; it's a support weapon. Put it behind cover, bubble wrap it with FWs, and flank with your Riptides or XV8s.

Erm... so is Ta'unar. And putting the KV128 behind the lines - when will you use the D shot? The Blastcannon asks for you to advance and become an attack unit, losing the idea of "support". You already need to spend points in the Pulse Driver just to really have a good ranged weapon. Point per point, even if the Ta'unar costed twice the Stormsurge, I'd still opt for the former.

**chaos0xomega**

Comparing the Stormsurge to the Taunar is pointless, until the rules are published in a book, everything about it, from points cost to statlines to special rules, is subject to change. Even after they are published, they are still subject to change.

**Vineheart01**

Stormsurge needs twice the range on its blastcannon to be really effective. People complain about BS3 all the time on costier units but a proper Tau list it rarely comes into the picture due to proper ML use.

I know its probably not going to happen but i hope it gets buffed from transition from WD to Codex. If the blastcannon had 1-20" range for Str D it would be pretty good for the cost, since 20" isnt that far but its not far enough to reach everything (which is my problem with Wraithknights, 36" CAN reach anything considering their movement)

**spectreoneone**

Vector Strike wrote:

spectreoneone wrote:
That's all fine and good...but this assessment is in a vacuum. Tau are a combined-arms army...each unit has a role to fill, and many cannot operate alone. If you add markerlights into the equation (either in the form of Pathfinders, Stealth Suits with their ML drones, a Skyray, or even a Razorshark), you are presented with a very powerful asset on the field. Remember, it can fire its different weapons at separate targets, too. This is not an offensive weapon; it's a support weapon. Put it behind cover, bubble wrap it with FWs, and flank with your Riptides or XV8s.

Erm... so is Ta'unar. And putting the KV128 behind the lines - when will you use the D shot? The Blastcannon asks for you to advance and become an attack unit, losing the idea of "support". You already need to spend points in the Pulse Driver just to really have a good ranged weapon. Point per point, even if the Ta'unar costed twice the Stormsurge, I'd still opt for the former.

I do agree that both have similar roles, however if you are limited to one LoW slot, the Stormsurge is a better option. Being able to take three of them per LoW slot is not something to scoff at. That provides extra targets to consider, and also gives it more potential damage if its tied up in CC. It's also physically smaller, which provides an advantage when fighting in dense terrain. Its smaller size also makes it less of a target (you can't tell me that the Ta'unar won't be more of a bullet magnet...subconsciously, bigger models = better targets). Up to three models also means that you can spread the unit out a bit, and thus effectively deny more of the board to your opponent.

You also mention the limited range of the Str D profile...yes, 10" is a very short range...but it is still not worthless. The idea is to make the enemy come to you and eliminate them in your killing zone. It's the embodiment of the Tau philosophy of Kauyon, the Patient Hunter.

I don't think that the Stormsurge should be dismissed outright as a poorer option than FW's Ta'unar. Both bring a lot of firepower to the table, and both have their weaknesses. Also, we have only seen this unit on its own so far. We don't know what kind of synergy this will have with the new or modified options in the Codex. As a whole, I'm optimistic.

**Vineheart01**

Well, that and pretty much any FW option for units outclass any codex unit.

I say pretty much because XV9's suck ass lol. 45pt base and REAL freakin guns would make them usable.

**krazynadechukr**

Tau battleforce (US & GB & Australia & Japan) & crisis commander (Japan & GB & Aus) "sold out" on their sites

Australia also shows codex, Farsight supp, gun drones, XV15 all "sold out" too.

Germany, same, plus gun drone ugrades "sold out" and Japan

So it begins.

**pretre**

via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.

The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.

It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.

The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.

Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.

**Requizen**

pretre wrote:
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.

The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.

It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.

The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.

Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.

Remember when Tyranids were the army that used the most MCs?

If this is true, that seems fairly solid. A good gun and secondary fire that's much harder to kill than most other foot MCs. Lower Toughness mitigated by what seems to be a consistently good Cover save and Drones shielding.

**agnosto**

pretre wrote:
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.

The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.

It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.

The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.

Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.

lol. 18" gun but only increased cover outside 12".

**Co'tor Shas**

Sounds a bit like the original stealth field rules.

**Vineheart01**

Increased cover outside 12"? The heck? So it doesnt have Stealth and Shroud, it has a unique rule. Drones giving it Shrouded actually makes the drones valuable so theyre no longer just ablative wounds...which kinda sucks lol but its about time we get drones we actually DONT want to lose first

If that ion based weapon has better range im defaulting to it lol. Stealth suits already suffer from being dangerously close to assault range the entire game, this thing is only slightly more resilient because its not T3.

That being said, even if it wasnt an MC, its T5 which is awesome. T4 multiwound models suck, thats why i have terrible luck with crisis suits because they ALWAYS manage to get hit by an S8+ attack somehow even through drone bubbles. T5 dramatically lowers its instasplat odds (yes i know its still got a lot of threats to look for, but nowhere near as many).

**TheNewBlood**

pretre wrote:
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.

The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.

It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.

The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.

Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.

Faeit 212 and the "anonymous source" are notoriously inaccurate. Until I see physical proof via pictures, that rumor isn't worth the toilet paper is was scrawled on.

**Co'tor Shas**

Battle-cannon equivalents are my bane. ID and ignore armour.

**Red Corsair**

Wow the Ghost Keels sound like the winner so far. Salt required of course.

At a little over 125, we can guess ~130pts so 390 for the unit of 3. Take the ion canons and that 18 S7 AP4 shots at I would assume 30ish inches and add the TL fusion blasters for duality in case you need to crack some armor. With JSJ and pretty much a guaranteed 2+ cover save it's easy to see how annoying this unit will get. With marker light support your going to be out performing Missile sides in every area, especially if they can take VT or EWO.

**pretre**

TheNewBlood wrote:
pretre wrote:
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.

The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.

It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.

The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.

Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.

Faeit 212 and the "anonymous source" are notoriously inaccurate. Until I see physical proof via pictures, that rumor isn't worth the toilet paper is was scrawled on.

I find it funny you're telling me this.

**Requizen**

agnosto wrote:
pretre wrote:
via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.

The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.

It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.

The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.

Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.

lol. 18" gun but only increased cover outside 12".

JSJ is a thing tho. Jump Pack is an amazing unit type.

**Red Corsair**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Increased cover outside 12"? The heck? So it doesnt have Stealth and Shroud, it has a unique rule. Drones giving it Shrouded actually makes the drones valuable so theyre no longer just ablative wounds...which kinda sucks lol but its about time we get drones we actually DONT want to lose first

If that ion based weapon has better range im defaulting to it lol. Stealth suits already suffer from being dangerously close to assault range the entire game, this thing is only slightly more resilient because its not T3.

That being said, even if it wasnt an MC, its T5 which is awesome. T4 multiwound models suck, thats why i have terrible luck with crisis suits because they ALWAYS manage to get hit by an S8+ attack somehow even through drone bubbles. T5 dramatically lowers its instasplat odds (yes i know its still got a lot of threats to look for, but nowhere near as many).

MC is amazing mate, those things will have at least 2 attacks each with smash and fear for enemy xenos. That doesn't even mention all the other perks being a MC brings along.

**spectreoneone**

Vineheart01 wrote:Well, that and pretty much any FW option for units outclass any codex unit.

I say pretty much because XV9's suck ass lol. 45pt base and REAL freakin guns would make them usable.

Funny, I've had the opposite luck with XV9's...they consistently were my powerhouses of my army.

pretre wrote:via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.

The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.

It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.

The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.

Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.

Hmm...yet another Elite choice. Definitely some good options, but we definitely didn't need more elites. Here's hoping that this information is either incorrect or that some units are getting their FOC slots shaken up. That being said, definitely sounds like a solid unit. I'd really like to see Stealth Suits moved to troops or Fast Attack....would definitely open things up for some crazy stealth shenanigans!

**Vineheart01**

If those are indeed the rules i could see them completely dominating the Elite slot. Durable enough to cause issues to non-big-bug-killers and strong enough depending on the gun to threaten everything.
Best of all, all 3 will have the SAME DAMN GUN - biggest complaint about Stealthsuits.....lol....i hate mixing weapons in a squad unless the weapons can fulfill similar roles. Bursts and Fusions do not want the same targets in the slightest.

And i see no point in giving it the TL flamer. Flamer profile sucks, i really wish we could get a heavy flamer or a torrented normal flamer. TL Fusion adds another semi-guaranteed shot that compliments the main gun, unless its an expensive as gak swap why would you NOT take that lol

Red Corsair wrote:
Vineheart01 wrote:
Increased cover outside 12"? The heck? So it doesnt have Stealth and Shroud, it has a unique rule. Drones giving it Shrouded actually makes the drones valuable so theyre no longer just ablative wounds...which kinda sucks lol but its about time we get drones we actually DONT want to lose first

If that ion based weapon has better range im defaulting to it lol. Stealth suits already suffer from being dangerously close to assault range the entire game, this thing is only slightly more resilient because its not T3.

That being said, even if it wasnt an MC, its T5 which is awesome. T4 multiwound models suck, thats why i have terrible luck with crisis suits because they ALWAYS manage to get hit by an S8+ attack somehow even through drone bubbles. T5 dramatically lowers its instasplat odds (yes i know its still got a lot of threats to look for, but nowhere near as many).

MC is amazing mate, those things will have at least 2 attacks each with smash and fear for enemy xenos. That doesn't even mention all the other perks being a MC brings along.

Oh i by no means am denouncing MC rules. Thats just icing on the cake. Im just saying long as they were T5 i'd be happy lol. The only multiwound T4 model i dont feel worried about wasting points on are MANZ Missiles for my orks because theyre dirt cheap anyway and rarely dont do their job

**Vector Strike**

spectreoneone wrote:I do agree that both have similar roles, however if you are limited to one LoW slot, the Stormsurge is a better option. Being able to take three of them per LoW slot is not something to scoff at. That provides extra targets to consider, and also gives it more potential damage if its tied up in CC. It's also physically smaller, which provides an advantage when fighting in dense terrain. Its smaller size also makes it less of a target (you can't tell me that the Ta'unar won't be more of a bullet magnet...subconsciously, bigger models = better targets). Up to three models also means that you can spread the unit out a bit, and thus effectively deny more of the board to your opponent.

You also mention the limited range of the Str D profile...yes, 10" is a very short range...but it is still not worthless. The idea is to make the enemy come to you and eliminate them in your killing zone. It's the embodiment of the Tau philosophy of Kauyon, the Patient Hunter.

I don't think that the Stormsurge should be dismissed outright as a poorer option than FW's Ta'unar. Both bring a lot of firepower to the table, and both have their weaknesses. Also, we have only seen this unit on its own so far. We don't know what kind of synergy this will have with the new or modified options in the Codex. As a whole, I'm optimistic.

They don't have similar roles - Stormsurge is a light infantry killer with some low AP weapons, while Ta'unar is more than able to destroy Knights. The problem is when, in its fluff, Stormsurge is said to be Tau's answer to Knights and big creatures - which it isn't. Against light infantry, Tau is filled with S5 and even S7 stuff. This is our main consideration with this thing - its like pouring more sugar in an already too sweet coffee.

Regarding sizes: but we want our LoWs to be hit instead of Crisis, Broadsides or Ethereals. If bigger = better target, then let's go big!

3 models are too expensive ($ and point-wise). More than 1,000p for 3 models, which won't be allowed in many tournaments (not that I play them, but still). Even 2 (700-ish points) are already pushing too much for the majority of lists out there (1500-1850). People will mostly field only 1 of those.

As I've said, I'm willing to proxy it. I just won't spend 1 dime on one until I see with my own eyes (and others, via BRs) that it's a good addition to Tau.

Vineheart01 wrote:Well, that and pretty much any FW option for units outclass any codex unit.

I say pretty much because XV9's suck ass lol. 45pt base and REAL freakin guns would make them usable.

Barracudas (flyers), Tetras (Pathfinders) and Ta'unar (Stormsurge) are the 3 real good Tau things in FW that are better than their codex counterparts. R'varna and Y'vahra don't substitute any Codex unit. All other models are underperforming (Remoras can shine a bit, though). So, I disagree with the "and pretty much any FW option for units outclass any codex unit".

pretre wrote:via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
The Ghostkeel is an elite choice that comes with 2 stealth drones for each Ghostkeel. It's a Jet Pack Monstrous Creature, and you can take 1-3. It has the normal Tau BS 3 with 4 wounds, but only a T5. However the 3+ save with +2 to it's cover save outside of 12" should make up for it.

The main gun- Fusion Collider is an 18" S8 AP1 melta blast gun that can be exchanged for a Ion weapon that is more infantry based with a S7AP4 Assault 6 gun that can overcharge for additional strength and a large blast.

It also has a twin- linked flamer that can be exchanged out for a TL bust cannon or fusion blaster.

The model has gear that doubles the cover saves to a max of +2 but also gains shrouded from it's drones. It seems powerful with stealth, shrouded, and the limited doubling, but I have not had time to read the details to see what stacks.

Two support systems are also allowed for upgrades. Cost wise its a little over a hundred and a quarter.

Very interesting. If it gets Infiltrate, it'll substitute some of my Fusion Crisis as my AT option. The Ion weapon is a good substitute for Missile Pod Crisis as well.
Without drones, it'll have at least 5+ cover if in a crater, 3+ if behind/in woods/obstacles and 2+ in ruins. All you needd is to put something between it and its enemies with your JSJ.

More interesting than Stormsurge.

**derling**

pretre wrote:

Remember when Tyranids were the army that used the most MCs?

At the inception of the Tau in GD playtesting of 3rd edition, battlesuits orginally got their start as vehicles units. 3rd edition rule had troubles with this and so the birth of robots acting like augmentation to normal infantry was born!

As the suits get larger and larger, the idea of keeping them as non-vehicular models is getting more absurd. Vehicles have worked them selves out well through the last few editions so it would be a logical jump to put them back into a Jumppacking Walker type of vehicle design.

But I suspect this kind of paradigm shift in Tau design would raise too much commotion....

So we're stuck with monstrous creatures that are really just guys in SUPER SPECIAL 40 ft tall POWER ARMOR!

IF does seem that the Tau design is swingning even more heavily towards giant robot suits.

I wonder what changes will occur to the fire warrior teams. are the changes to the models just an aesthetic rework? or will it introduce a new a type of firewarrior rulewise.(the scope of which being slight or grand)

we'll see I guess....

**Mr Morden**

Of course a brand new Codex could have reset the Tau suits as what they are - Walkers - just saying...........

but that would have meant making Walkers good......

**Lithlandis Stormcrow**

Mr Morden wrote:
Of course a brand new Codex could have reset the Tau suits as what they are - Walkers - just saying...........

but that would have meant making Walkers good......

And stopping the rule "simplification" that is taking place...

Never! There ain't no gettin' offa this train we're on!

**Vineheart01**

Werent Tyranids the ONLY MC's for the longest time until the Dreadknight popped up? Or is the Wraithlord older than i think? I started playing right at the end of 5th edition.

I dont know how they could bring our suits to the original idea of walkers and not break us. Vehicles are in an odd state right now where they are either dangerous as hell for the cost, or pathetically weak and waste of time. If our crisis suits became AV11 walkers, i think they'd vanish forever because they'd be utter trash. Flipside, if they went AV12 they could potentially be broken. Think of the Farsight Bomb if they were AV12/12/11 walkers lol.....eesh....

**DarknessEternal**

Vineheart01 wrote:
Werent Tyranids the ONLY MC's for the longest time until the Dreadknight popped up? Or is the Wraithlord older than i think? I started playing right at the end of 5th edition.

Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Tyranids all had Monstrous Creatures as soon as Monstrous Creatures started being a thing.