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Old news but...Finally Forgeworld have something that isn't laughably overpriced (points wise).*

I borrowed a friends copy of Anphelion project and came to the conclusion that a Trygon is worth having. Here is an abbreviated rundown of its capabilities.

Ws6 Bs2 S8 T7 W5 I5 A3(5) Ld10 3+Sv, 2x scytal, scythe tail - as carnifex, 6+Invulnerable Sv, Beast, deepstrike - as a monolith, fearless, 1 mass point

In a nutshell a Trygon is a cross between a carnifex and the Red Terror, at 290pts its pricey, but that is not much more than a close combat carnifex. Now as they are noted to be a waste of points what gives?

The main bonuses are the fact that it is far faster, both in movement and initiative, can deepstrike into an assault. When it gets there it has plenty of attacks. and is tough to take down.

I am thinkiing of scratch building one, or ponying out £75 for the Forgeworld model. What do you think, yes or no.

 

* On this note heavy mortars have decent rules too.

Pretty damn mean. I'd say its definately worth it and probably a bit underpriced at 290. It would perform the same function as a monolith or c'tan being a fire magnet. I would clear it with your opponent before hand unless your playing competatively. I certainly wouldn't be too happy to see my enemy with one of those in every other game. Very cool though.

The mortars do look like a pretty good deal. The return of the thudd gun is just so cool and the model is great. Apparently both may be elites in Death Korps siege armies, making them the kings of indirect fire.

I lent my IAv4 out so I can't check on it, but doesn't the inclusion of 1 mass point put this guy into the Realm of Superheavies and Bio-Titans? I mean, is it a Heavy Support choice or part of a Trygon or Trygon-Hierophant type detachment? If it's a Heavy, then by all means rock on. As long as your opponent knows the rules it's good to go. If it's a seperate detachment, you probably won't get to use it in all but large games or games where multiple force orgs have been agreed on before hand.

It only counts as a heavy support choice.

One of the nice things about it, normally HS space is pretty crowded, but with 290pts taken out of an army I can go easy here.

Yes I am thinking of using the big bug regularly. Sure its nasty but defensively its not worth its weight in daffafexes, which everyone seems free to play three of in every game. This is the point of the thread, anything is good for occassional games not excepting IG mortar squads, old rules Shining Spears etc.

I wont want to buy a Forgeworld kit to collect dust, and more likely I can save on bumping my nid army size with a plastic snake and carnifex bits. The former looks very nice, but looks a little too fragile for game board use, its covered in lots of delicate resin spines - not good. The convdersion on the other hand should be fun, I have enough milliput to do a decent job on the carapace...

I have been thinking the same thing about the giant spined chaos beast I just won off of ebay. The thing about FW rules and FW models is that I would feel odd to use rules to something I didn't own. Its kinda like "I shelled out the cash and payed my dues, now can I have this beast on the table?" I think more people would be willing to have it on the table if you shelled out for the FW model.

If you can find people who want to play with them. I own all the 2nd ed Tyranid vehicle bugs, and they've never hit the table. Once you announce you're dropping a titan on the table, people get a little skittish.

I always thought throwing down the big stuff would be fun and make the battle more story-esque.  Haven't played anyone with that kind of kit yet, though.

A Trygon isnt even big, expensive model yes. Only $10 less than a Heirodule, which is genuinely big.
Its also not quite Titan class, though admittedly it does have a mass point.

Posted By Orlanth on 04/30/2007 5:21 PM

Old news but...Finally Forgeworld have something that isn't laughably overpriced (points wise)*

Forgeworld has made a number of things worth their points apart from the Trygon and Heavy Mortar. The Manticore is arguably better than the Basilisk, and the Cyclops has a following.

I cant find reference to the Cyclops, is this the 2006 update vehicle that fires the extra large pie plate every other turn?

I also fail to see the value of a Mantyicore except as a change. Its very similar to a Basilisk except that you pay +10pts for the privilege of a range of minor disadvantages. The disasdvatages are not crippling, the loss of direct fire, shorter maximum range (irrelevant) and a limit of four turns firing maximum but has no advantages at all as I can see it.

Cyclops is basically what the old human bomb was. It may as well be a human bomb as that is all it is, just wrapped up in a politically correct and safe mechanical package.

it can be transported in a chimera or valkyrie. It looks like a mini russ without armamemnts. To give you an idea of size, many people use old plastic Epic landraiders to model them as opposed to buying resin FW.

Triggerbaby is right. Cyclops are very popular and priced decently as well.

Then of course, there's meiotic spores. And griffons. Gen. Grizmund is worth it, from my perspective. And repressors seem like a good idea as well.

I faced a Trygon at Adepticon this year in the Gladiator event. I was not very impressed with it.

My opponent placed it on a flank and rushed it at me. I was not sure how strong it was, so I fed it a 12 man squad of termagaunts. The gaunts held it up for 2 turns and then I fed it another squad and that was pretty much the extent of the trygons usefullness in the game. Maybe he just used the thing wrong. I don't know but it was not impressive.

Darrian

Feeding cheap units into big monsters is exactly the right thing to do. The friend who lent me the copy of Anphelion Project said that the only time he witnessed a Heirophant in action it was choked by a conscript platoon with independant Commissar. That was the end of the heirophant for that game, locked in combat with cheap guard.

Now for a Trygon you dont need those extremes, but then again you need less minions as a tarpit. With nids vs nids gaunts are ideal, cheap and unbreakable due to synapse. for most armies there is a shortage of cheap expendable and fearless troops. One way or another you did exactly the right thing. Did you know you can shoot at the trygon while the gaunts are engaged with it

Due to the speed of the Trygon however, it can try to avoid the baits the opponent is throwing at it. Gaunts are ideal, though.

I love the Trygon rules, but I cannot get myself shelling that much money out for one.

Greets
Schepp himself

If you backed up the Trygon with a good few gaunts of it's own, couldn't you clear the tarpits much faster?
Especially if they were just behind the Trygon which absorbed the charge?

I could have shot at the Trygon while it was locked in combat with gaunts? That I did not know. I will have to do more homework before facing Forgeworld stuff again.

Thanks,

Darrian

yeah you can shoot at anything with mass points while its locked in combat...


i own 3 gargantuan creatures...

the barbed hierodule (massive points sink....people generally just try and ignore it the entire game...rarely ever makes its points back)  uses 2 HS slots...

the hierophant (impossible to ignore...tough as nails to kill..can lay out some serious firepower...how it got tied up by conscripts i have no idea...considering it wounds EVERYTHING in base to base combat with it on a 4+ before it even gets to attack..)  uses seperate force org chart

the trygon...my personal favorite...low in points...just about always makes its points back..can keep up with hormagaunts if im not deepstriking it...if i deepstrike it, it is usually followed by super beefed up hormagaunts to clean house.,..very fun (uses 1 HS slot)

i want to buy 2 more trygons actually...just for a fun themed "get on em quick" tyranid close combat army...consisting of leaping warriors..LOTS of hormagaunts...LOTS of raveners and 3 trygons

thatd be much fun to play

oh and just wanted to mention this as well..

people do NOT want to fight the hierodule and hierophants very often...usually takes some coercion after the first couple times...

the trygon people easily accept...9 times out of 10...

ive had my trygon do horrendous damage...and ive had my trygon deepstrike to a bad location and eat lascannons and fall down super easy..

heck ive had him be tied up by large MEQ squads so they could readjust their gunline to splatter the poor trygon...

he's deffinetly my favorite to use forgeworld model...he even beats out my chaos forgeworld stuff

I got the Anphelion project last week, and the Trygon does seem like a nice beasty. His speed is what makes him useful. If was 6" a turn he wouldn't serve a purpose.

Scythed Hieroduels do seem like a waste of time. What about Barbed ones though?

And I don't like the Hierophant model - is it really that good?

BYE

i dunno bout the scythed hierodule i have a barbed hierodule...

i'll give ya the rundown of how most of his battles go...

25% of the time he misses (Which seems to be 50% with my crud rolling)...when he does hit something he has a pretty good chance at blowing up a tank...or wiping out a marine squad (if they are packed tightly together and out in the open..heh)

now if you are playing a take and hold mission..consider it an almost automatic win heh

the hierophant is a disasterously fragile model..but it looks a lot better in real life...

this bad boy can lay waist with 2 pie plates (Even though yer probably going to miss 1 a turn)  and the sucker uses fleet of foot! (not while shooting mind you...)

the spore cloud is fricken absolutely nasty....allowing him to wade through anything with crummy armor saves..and he has enough  base attacks to wade through marines and other large critters..

i ran my hierophant and trygon at a gladiator tournament...first game i ran up against a baneblade....my gargantuan creatures spent 2 turns tag teaming it in close combat...

lesson learned....trygon is good at doing damage to baneblades....hierophant is even better...blasting it with 2 str 10 pie plates then attacking with 6 str 10 attacks...brutal...

my trygon has died in about 75% of all the games ive played him in..

my hierophant has died...once..when 2 shooty as hell MEQ tourney armies opened up on him..20 something lascannons took a couple turns to whack him though..heh

my barbed hierodule has died...never..no one has bothered to put that much effort in to it

Gargantuan creature rules >>> superheavy vehicle rules. Mass points are just too nasty.

deffinetly...mass points are a heck of a bad time for most opponents..

but mass point critters have a HECK of a lot less weaponry then most super heavies...

for 2/3rds the cost of a hierophant you can get a baneblade...and produce a lot more killey

for 100 points less then a baneblade you can get a hierodule..with 1 pie plate...while we all know the havoc a baneblade can produce


even warhound titans are cheaper with better weapon build outs...
even the lowly plasma blast gun has a better AP and uses 2d6 for penetration...the only thing it has worse is a harder time instant killing bigger things...

hell that darned vulcan mega bolter can unleash all sorts of hell on a unit of stealers...heh

But, as with the difference between a tank and a Monstrous Creature, that big bug remains at max effectiveness until you knock off all his mass points AND all his wounds. Icky.

But, as with the difference between a tank and a Monstrous Creature, that big bug remains at max effectiveness until you knock off all his mass points AND all his wounds. Icky.

Its an upscaled armour value vs monstrous creature comparison. onsters with a statline > vehicles in 40K. There is a huge imbalance. Superheavies alone get 'wounds', and pay 100pt for each one.

Scythed heirdule is a complete waste of points.

The Barbed heirodule can work, on occassion, but again you can tie it up with cheap infantry, it has pitifully few attacks for its size. IIRC is hits as hard as a powerfist vet sgt, without a bolt pistol. Thye model looks nice though.