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6+ FNP on a many-wound model averages to a 20% increase in wounds.

So, at 28 wounds, that's an extra 5.6 wounds, if they manage to kill it in one round OR you pop the FNP Strat every round he lives.

 Latro_ wrote:
did anyone catch d6 evolutions 50+ mortal wound black legion lord with a chainsword?

Its not flawless host. He suggested using the jumppack chaos lord with the black legion relic Ghorisvex"s Teeth and with the warlord trait flames of spite. Then you use VOTLW. Ghorisvex's teeth is a relic chainsword that gives 2 additional attacks. And its profile is strength user, AP -3, D2. Plus the relic causes you to do mortal wounds on a 6+. So with VOTLW, you will be doing mortal wounds on a 5+. Flames of spite is similar. So you end up doing mortal wounds galore as long as you roll high when you are trying to wound.

The main issue with that is that you have to make this jump pack chaos lord your warlord to give him flames of spite warlord trait. And we all know that chaos lords aren't exactly the most resilient things around. He will jump in, do his thing, and if he gets exposed to ranged fire, he will die quite easily. Even a counter attack melee from another good melee character has a good chance of killing him since he only has a 4++ save. So, the issue becomes, do you want to risk giving up Slay the warlord by running him, because chances of him dying are quite high.

We could go with Ghorisvex's teeth alone, but it would definitely weaken the build. The biggest benefit about this build is that its amazingly cheap. chain swords don't cost any points, and he can bring double chain swords so that with the relic, he gets +3 attacks. You would have a jump pack warlord who can take down almost anything (because he is causing mortal wounds) for under 100 points.

The problem, like I said, is that you need to make that your warlord, and giving up slay the warlord for him is quite possible.

Just checking-the Teeth relic works on HIT-ROLLS, right? Not wound rolls?

Same for Flames of Spite?

Because if not, Prescience does diddly for that.

opps my bad, VOTLW would make it trigger on a 5+, not prescience. You don't need prescience.


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 JNAProductions wrote:
Just checking-the Teeth relic works on HIT-ROLLS, right? Not wound rolls?

Same for Flames of Spite?

Because if not, Prescience does diddly for that.

No, sorry it triggers on wound rolls of 6+, not hit rolls.


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 JNAProductions wrote:
6+ FNP on a many-wound model averages to a 20% increase in wounds.

So, at 28 wounds, that's an extra 5.6 wounds, if they manage to kill it in one round OR you pop the FNP Strat every round he lives.

Yup. it does. And no other legion trait benefits LOS that much, so might as well make it Iron warriors legion. I just say fluff wise that iron warriors agreed to lend their aid to Abaddon's black crusade and hence we had a iron warrior's LOS tag along in the army.

Oh, I just realised, he is using the new DA to cast the prayer to -1 to hit. This causes problems. I believe the DA's prayer only affects the same legion. So they all need to be in black legion.. Last time I used this for my LOS, the new DA wasn't in play. You would have to take a supreme command detachment and fit the DA into it with your LOS along with 2 other heroes.

The problem with LOS is that its so so expensive, and the damage it puts out can't really be compared to the likes of a Castallan. But I love the model because I spent months painting it. It makes such a great centrepiece. Also, right now, with the new assassins coming into play. This is probably the biggest model we have that can quite easily block line of sight for our footslogging characters from those pesky Vindicare Assassins. They can hide behind its great bulk out of line of sight and still move up the field.

Also, another benefit to the LOS is that the threat of warptime on it is a constant one. You think you know its threat range, but one well timed warptime and it can move up to 20 inches instead of its normal 10.

The LOS also doesn't really benefit as much from being in a soulforged pack detachment. Not unless you are running a Lord Discordant to give it a +1 to hit. Its already BS 3+ and you will definitely use daemon forge on it so that it can reroll hits and wounds. And moving doesn't affect its shooting BS because it is just that cool. And LOS gets more attacks as it takes damage. So, the strategem from the Soulforged pack to double its effective hp on damage table actually means it will reduce the number of attacks if you use that strategem. And all of the LOS guns are heavy (even its big belly flamer). so, you never ever want to advance with the LOS. (Unless in the super niche situation where that d6 makes such a big difference that forgoing all your shooting is worth considering).

How i was running the LOS in its entirety was dark apostle giving it -1 to hit, herald of khorne giving it +1 str and 6's to wound are an additional attack with that weapon (yes this cost 2cp total to just set into motion). I have also ran him with a warpsmith and master of possession, being able to heal him 5-7 wounds a turn can be super nasty. But honestly i have noticed the -1 to hit seems to do more than enough to make your opponent just not want to shoot at it. Then i used demonforge strat on it every turn, its going to do a ton of damage rerolling all failed hits and wounds.

I like iron within / iron without but as others noticed / mentioned we need to keep inside the same legion. I suppose you could go warpsmith, dark apostle, and master of possession with the lord of skulls for a stand alone chaos detachment of crazy.... it would cost 893 pts but...

Dark apostle gives -1 to hit. Warpsmith heals d3 wounds. Los heals 1 wound. Master of possession heals 3 (sacrifice from warpsmith to los) and cursed earth for 4++ save.

Now you have a los putting out 12 str 8 ap-2 d2 shots rerolling failed hits and wounds and d6 str 10 ap-2 d3 shots rerolling wounds that can heal 5-7 wounds a turn and is -1 to hit and has a 3+/4++/6+++ save. Put it on a center objective and force your opponent to deal with it, even if you dont charge / get into cc its going to rape vehicles. And they cant even bog it down in cc. Its a nasty beast. And 900 pts....

For 900pts +1 CP to boot that is a nasty unit. If it weren't for the prevalence of casteallns in the meta I would say it could be game breaking.

Azuza001 wrote:
How i was running the LOS in its entirety was dark apostle giving it -1 to hit, herald of khorne giving it +1 str and 6's to wound are an additional attack with that weapon (yes this cost 2cp total to just set into motion). I have also ran him with a warpsmith and master of possession, being able to heal him 5-7 wounds a turn can be super nasty. But honestly i have noticed the -1 to hit seems to do more than enough to make your opponent just not want to shoot at it. Then i used demonforge strat on it every turn, its going to do a ton of damage rerolling all failed hits and wounds.

I like iron within / iron without but as others noticed / mentioned we need to keep inside the same legion. I suppose you could go warpsmith, dark apostle, and master of possession with the lord of skulls for a stand alone chaos detachment of crazy.... it would cost 893 pts but...

Dark apostle gives -1 to hit. Warpsmith heals d3 wounds. Los heals 1 wound. Master of possession heals 3 (sacrifice from warpsmith to los) and cursed earth for 4++ save.

Now you have a los putting out 12 str 8 ap-2 d2 shots rerolling failed hits and wounds and d6 str 10 ap-2 d3 shots rerolling wounds that can heal 5-7 wounds a turn and is -1 to hit and has a 3+/4++/6+++ save. Put it on a center objective and force your opponent to deal with it, even if you dont charge / get into cc its going to rape vehicles. And they cant even bog it down in cc. Its a nasty beast. And 900 pts....

If I ran a supreme command detachment. I would actually be tempted to put in a unit of possessed. So the HQ would be DA, MOP and a sorceror. Then I could go Iron warriors, and place the sorceror elsewhere (anyway, sorceror can support other legions just fine). The MOP would not only buff the LOS but would also buff the unit of possessed. And after early rounds, when we have reached a stage where nothing is likely to kill the LOS anymore, then the DA would switch from buffing the LOS to buffing the possessed (whether by giving them -1 to hit or making them reroll all hits in melee).

And I might then run Daemonkin Ritualists. Don't need Soulforged pack. Its just that possessed are not cheap also. So, we are going to be looking at a really hefty investment into that supreme command...

Azuza, may I ask how Abaddon did in your lists? Was he worth his points? I love and want to run him too. I am amazed that you managed to squeeze him into your list, which already has the expensive LOS. I would have gone full IW legion and given the warlord cold and bitter trait. It would have the same effect as Abbadon except maybe they shoot slightly less well... A lot of points saved. Given the huge investment that LOS is... And was it difficult to screen? Because your units didn't have alot of units. So, if you faced say a guard list with like tons of cheap infantry units running around, was that an issue?

Has anyone done the math for how one Greater possessed compares with a unit of 5 possessed. It shouldn't be much of a comparision, but I just realised that a greater possessed comes with stat 5 across the board and d3 damage standard. And he (if given mark of Khorne) and the blood master will buff each other. So, he will get +2str for Str 7 and the daemonkin strategem will give him +1str +1 attack. He would be rocking Str 8 attacks, with wound rolls of 6 from the blood crown giving him extra attacks... The blood master, with unstoppable ferocity, his aura, would also be rocking Str 7 attacks which are d3 dmg.

Leaving aside the LOS, the two of them (greater possessed and Bloodmaster) would both be pretty scary in close combat ... Once we reach turn 3 or 4 if we have destroyed anything that can be a threat to the LOS, the Greater possessed, the MOP and the Bloodmaster can be free to split off go off and form their own mini death ball of killy doom. In a way, the LOS is "escorting" these 3 across the board since they can hide behind its huge bulk until they are across the board and juicy targets present themselves.

With these new CSM updates I'm inclined to think GW has doubled down on chaos being intended to be more of a close quarters army. I've never felt I've fully gotten my money's worth out of Abaddon, he is an auto-include for me but I'm not sure he normally makes his points back. His buffing aura is great but you can buy an awful lot for 240pts that the extra hits he provides would surely outweigh.
I need to get him into combat more, I need him more alongside the new melee goodies we have received in the last few weeks. His strength and wounds boost just underlines that. The chaingun and the nerf to cultists means I don't need his morale bubble to babysit cultists anymore either.
What are people's thoughts on best ways to utilise Ab? Deepstrike? Footslog? Is a land raider viable again running up behind daemon engines it's unlikely to get tagged.
I was hoping terminators would get enough of a boost to provide a suitable retinue for Abaddon to deepstrike in with but unfortunately they have simply been made more budget rather than better and the new formation doesn't help if you have Abaddon anyway.
If only we had some kind of honour guard

For the giggles has anyone done a black legion max termi squad drop the all Mark's strat on them and have a da and 3 sorcerers make em -2 to hit with a 4+ inv and 5+ fnp?

Abaddon303 wrote:
With these new CSM updates I'm inclined to think GW has doubled down on chaos being intended to be more of a close quarters army. I've never felt I've fully gotten my money's worth out of Abaddon, he is an auto-include for me but I'm not sure he normally makes his points back. His buffing aura is great but you can buy an awful lot for 240pts that the extra hits he provides would surely outweigh.
I need to get him into combat more, I need him more alongside the new melee goodies we have received in the last few weeks. His strength and wounds boost just underlines that. The chaingun and the nerf to cultists means I don't need his morale bubble to babysit cultists anymore either.
What are people's thoughts on best ways to utilise Ab? Deepstrike? Footslog? Is a land raider viable again running up behind daemon engines it's unlikely to get tagged.
I was hoping terminators would get enough of a boost to provide a suitable retinue for Abaddon to deepstrike in with but unfortunately they have simply been made more budget rather than better and the new formation doesn't help if you have Abaddon anyway.
If only we had some kind of honour guard

Terminators might work out okay if you stack the -1 to be hit prayer and a defensive psychic buff (either another -1 to be hit from nurgle, or 5+++ from slaanesh.) This requires an apostle and sorc, so it's a pretty expensive death star. But it is damn hard to kill. If you deploy it on the board and don't get first turn, you can still use the Prayer. You probably won't get into melee until turn 3 either footslogging or deep striking unless you use warp time.

I'm thinking about deepstriking with a mass of combi-plasma terminators after using chain cannons to clear chaff turn 1.

That's kind of where I'm at too. Dropping in turn 2 with lots of plasma I'm not too bothered about getting into combat that turn, my daemon engines should be hitting at that point. Just need to keep them alive until turn three but hopefully there'll be enough threat saturation to keep them alive.

Here's some numbers for terminators. The point here is to give more of an idea of just what you can expect these to be able to kill. The plasma shot is overcharged.



EDIT: Had the combi-bolter+chainaxe terminators at 28 instead of 29. Fixed that. Makes almost no difference because this spreadsheet is only going to 2 decimal places anyway.

With the combi-bolter you can expect to kill about 1 horde unit per terminator, and 1 marine per 2 terminators. Of course its a little better still if you've got full re-rolls to hit from Abaddon.

The melee is actually less efficient than the shooting in most cases since 2 more shots is better than +1str and -1ap. But of course it's a lot easier to get re-roll wounds for Chaos in melee than re-roll shooting. What's interesting to note is that while the power axe is going to kill a bit more stuff, it's not actually more points efficient. It stays about even. So that extra -1 ap apparently is worth the extra 4pts, at least on a terminator.

So these combi-bolters can kill hordes, but we're still looking at a 29pt model averaging 1-1.5 kills per volley vs 4-6pt models.That's solidly in "you will never make your points back" territory. They are about half as efficient at killing Guardsmen as the Chain Cannon havoc, and about the same as autocannon havocs. In melee they are not a ton better. The combi-plasma overcharge has worse numbers against hordes, similar again MeQs, and much better vs multi-wound stuff and tanks. And that's with just the 1 shot at 24". If you get within 12", you'll double that. And now you're getting about the same killing efficiency vs hordes, and 2-6 times more against other models, despite costing ~30% more points. That's a big jump! And of course you can fire on standard profile to save yourself some risk and still get the same results vs guardsmen and eldar.

And this isn't taking into account firing both the bolter and plasma profile. Even with the -1 to hit, that'll easily overtake the combi-bolter, even at 24" vs hordes (and you don't need the overcharge vs them.) So the combi-plasma is just flat out better. And keep in mind that the only reason the combi-bolter was even competing with the single plasma shot at 24" is because of the Beta bolter rule. Without that, it's a flop.

This all isn't really surprising. Plasma is really good this edition. Bolters are bad. Combi-weapons getting to fire both profiles is also super good. As I've said before, if the combi-bolter had even just a little something extra, like -1 AP or something, then it'd have a decent role still. But as things stand, point for point, combi-plasma blows it out of the water at it's own game, and can also kill anything else on the board.

So before we were looking at plasma squads and cheap bolter squads. But given just how poorly the combi-bolter actually does, my suggestion is that even cheap squads should have some combi-plasma. A 2:3 or 3:2 ratio would probably work out okay, and provides ablative wounds.

So these combi-bolters can kill hordes, but we're still looking at a 28pt model averaging 1-1.5 kills per volley vs 4-6pt models.That's solidly in "you will never make your points back" territory. They are about half as efficient at killing Guardsmen as the Chain Cannon havoc, and about the same as autocannon havocs. In melee they are not a ton better.

29 no,? Considering you always need to buy a melee weapon aswell.

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:
I am sorely tempted to try out the 28 CP Huron list just to see if having a truckload of CP and being able to recycle CSM squads for what should be the majority of the game can get the job done.

I recently played smaller point game (1500) with Huron and a brick of 20 CSM. They still die like nats when they draw attention. I got super lucky though and had the perfect scenario where 19 of the 20 died (rolled hot saves on the final volley) while I had 5 CP left, so I auto passed moral and brought them all back. The most hilarious part was Huron casting warp time on them or himself all game and them moving across half the table grabbing objectives. Reminded me of playing my Guard and using move move move only it felt funny using marines.


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dominuschao wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

dominuschao wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

dominuschao wrote:
I'm really liking scourged personally. Really solid trait and the strat is a deterrent at the least.

Anyone else on scourged or is it mostly RC?

Debating internally atm between scouged, purge for a csm gunline army.

The Purge offers some really nice dice stacking if you run many msu, you can easily improve your rate of wounding alot.

Scourged is better at defending. However r&h have a similiar trait and as amazing as it sounds it's more ehhh then one thinks.

Relic wise i belive there can be a case made for the scourged.

Purged look decent too. I just hate having rules that force or at least effect my decisions like that. Haven't looked at RH in a long time honestly.

What I know I will enjoy is overwatch 5+ from oblits and reaper cc's plus built in reroll on my plasma/las etc. I honestly think this faction is under the radar atm. Plus it has great synergy with rubrics who need it (and maybe some love from the big FUQ). Hmm now that I'm thinking on it more rubrics go well with purged too.

I was pretty stoked about daemonkin ritualists too until I noticed their strat requires a MOP. I'm still bent on trying possessed. Again. But this time with greater posse support.

Edit- on that note greater possessed can benefit from "I am alpharius" which is cool.

Cheap characters that can handle themselves in combat are a perfect candidate for Alpha Legion for that reason. I can't see them doing great overall though.

Probably not. Flawless host possessed with a shepherd otoh I think is going to be pretty effective. Its the other concept I've been stewing on.. double possessed in rhinos with greater posse attached. Or horde style slogging. Either way they don't fold as easy as zerks if I don't pull off the charge and they will hit like a truck with prescience and ultimate confidence plus shepherds mortal wounds.

The trick is finding models I am not embarrassed to put on the table I'm using Ghal Vorbak for my greater possessed, gotta think of a kitbash for possessed that won't break the bank.


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 JNAProductions wrote:
6+ FNP on a many-wound model averages to a 20% increase in wounds.

So, at 28 wounds, that's an extra 5.6 wounds, if they manage to kill it in one round OR you pop the FNP Strat every round he lives.

If you use it every round the numbers would change since he regains a wound every turn.

Abaddon did not disappoint. He was the linchpin of the 40 chaos marines i took. Against the da player he nominated abbadon as the person who knew where the fallen were (ok, make him stronger...) and then he deep struck a squad of deathwing terms with maces and a flail onto the board and charged him. They managed to do 6 wounds to abby. In response abby wiped the squad without a second thought.

He is tough as nails, gives free rerolls (which helped the defilers) and kept the infantry in line. If your taking blobs then he is a no brainer. Finally the extra two cp is what allowed me to go as far with cp usage as I did.

I’m personally thinking about running Abaddon in a mixed Supreme Command Detachment without any other Black Legion included in the army.

Also, the Dark Disciples cost 10 points, right? Battlescribe seems to have them down as being free – and Huron costing 1CP to be taken as WL, rather than +1CP

Yes the desciples cost 10.

I don't see running abandon in a supreme command without other black legion as a worth while investment. He only gives rerolls to other black legion units.

Azuza001 wrote:
Yes the desciples cost 10.

I don't see running abandon in a supreme command without other black legion as a worth while investment. He only gives rerolls to other black legion units.

Assuming you somehow justify his price tag, he DOES have the morale gimmick we can't get otherwise without using up a valuable Warlord trait.

Azuza001 wrote:
Yes the desciples cost 10.

I don't see running abandon in a supreme command without other black legion as a worth while investment. He only gives rerolls to other black legion units.

In a way, but, I see him more for his melee threat and ability to ignore morale on my 3+/5++/5+++ -1 to hit CSM screening unit to help get him up the table.

But that squad of 3+/5++/5+++ -1 to hit can be black legion....

I am assuming possessed w/ mark of slaanesh, a sorcerer casting delightful agonies, and an apostle praying for -1 to hit? And abby gives them reroll failed hits.

Much as I like squads CSM more since the introduction of the chaingun, I'm still not sure about taking anymore than is needed for a battalion. I think I'd rather spend the extra couple of points on chosen with combi bolters personally.
10 acting as a retinue for Abaddon and benefiting from his aura, even advancing you should be landing 15 bolter shots a turn and moving 9/10 inches to try to keep up with your demon engines

I just thought of something new. Not sure if discussed here. Chosen at 14 points per model. They can now use thunderhammers for an additional 16 points each. So 30 points per model. Very fragile. BUT, we can now put them into a Rhino that we can buff to get a -3 to hit. And to get maximum bang for our buck, go world eaters for a +1 attack. So now, our normal chosen gets 3 attacks on the charge while our chosen champion has 4 attacks!

So, if we fill up a Rhino with Kharn, an exalted Champion and 8 chosen ( 7 thunderhammers and 1 chainsword just to make it a bit cheaper). Now, this unit of 8 chosen with icon of wrath only cost 234 points. So, you use the priest to pray -1 to hit, then charge this Rhino up the board, pop smoke, and cast miasma of pestilence on it for the sweet -3.

Turn 2, you get out 3 inches, move 6 inches, and then you have a rerollable charge of 2d6. Even against a T8 knight, your chosen unit will now have 22 thunderhammers attacks. Kharn gives them reroll to hit, exalted champion gives them reroll to wound, and VOTLW means their hammers now wound a knight on a 3+. Have the same sorceror now cast prescience on them, so they can even proc DTTFE. 22 thunderhammer attacks at 3 damage flat each can do a maximum of 66 damage, before even counting DTTFE. They can and WILL smash a full health castellan or knight to many itty bitty pieces lol. (Kharn and the exalted Champ don't need to charge into the knight at all, just let the hammers do all the work). Kharn and the exalted champion are not wasted anyway, because a world eaters army will have tons of berzerkers to go with this anyway.

World Easter have often had problems with armour, and maulerfiends were an imperfect solution. Now we can mix in chosen squads armed with Thunder hammers along with other standard zerker squads and just go about it with a full power armor army. lol

Now, the squad was 234 points. So even if it got shot off the board after killing the knight or castellan, it would have been worth it. Now, if you go in unsupported and just rely on VOTLW. Then a max thunderhammer squad of chosen cost 310 points (including icon of wrath). And with VOTL, but without any support from anyone else, would do 31 thunderhammer attacks. But they would be 4+ to hit, though VOTLW will still give them 3+ to wound. The knight would get only 6s to save in close combat.

I worked it out and a max unit of 10 WE thunderhammer chosen would do (31 x 0.5 x 0.666 x 0.833) x 3 = 25.8 wounds on average. So, on average they would smash a 24W knight to pieces, but not quite a 28W Castellan. So, I would honestly suggest having Kharn and the exalted Champ in the Rhino anyway. It makes sense that if you are going to put (the 8 man chosen 234 points + Kharn 120 points + exalted champ w power axe 75 points) = a total of 429 points into a Rhino and make it -3 to hit, protecting 429 points of stuff is a lot better than protecting just 310 points of stuff.

So... anyone want to try out the Rhino bus of thunderhammer doom? lol I think it would be hilarious if we used a chosen squad to smash an imperial knight into pieces...lol



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Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Yes the desciples cost 10.

I don't see running abandon in a supreme command without other black legion as a worth while investment. He only gives rerolls to other black legion units.

Assuming you somehow justify his price tag, he DOES have the morale gimmick we can't get otherwise without using up a valuable Warlord trait.

Just throwing this out here. For morale handling. Other than Abaddon and a Iron Warriors warlord with the cold and bitter warlord trait. You can also do this. Make a bringers of despair detachment. Now, with 1 cp, any bringers of despair detachment can make any Heretic Astartes unit within 18 inches autopass their morale. Its obviously not as good as Abaddon, but 1 cp is still cheaper than 2CP autopass morale strategem. And if you plan to run black legion terminators on the board anyway...

I am afraid that WE Chosen have to use WE Rhino...so no Mark of Nurgle for -1 to hit psychic power.

Gorgnoob wrote:
I am afraid that WE Chosen have to use WE Rhino...so no Mark of Nurgle for -1 to hit psychic power.

zzz.... well, ok -2 to hit then. Not the best, but if we want to go WE... no choice. :X

Even without prescience, if you only have Kharn's reroll to hit and the exalted champion's reroll to wound, and VOTLW, a big unit of chosen with Thunderhammers should still be able to smash a knight into pieces.

Alternatively, we can use black legion. Then have the berserkers use the 1CP strategem mercilous fighters. The chosen squad will outnumber one lone knight, so they will all get +1 attack, so end up same as WE. The only thing is you have to replace Kharn with a chaos lord for a reroll 1 to hit. But then you still get to have the -3 to hit Rhino.

So, its either full WE for a -2 to hit Rhino or black legion with a -3 to hit Rhino but a chaos lord instead of Kharn.

I don't think Chosen are allowed to take that many melee weapons anyway though are they? I thought it was limited like the Special Weapons.

Either way, I think 6 dudes with Combi-Bolters and a Chaincannon will be my default to them.

I haven't opened the codex in a while though.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I don't think Chosen are allowed to take that many melee weapons anyway though are they? I thought it was limited like the Special Weapons.

Either way, I think 6 dudes with Combi-Bolters and a Chaincannon will be my default to them.

I haven't opened the codex in a while though.

They are. I have the new chaos codex in front of me right now. It says any chosen may take one item from the melee weapons list. It also says that the chosen champion can either take one item from the melee weapons list or etc etc.

The melee weapon list is the list that contains thunderhammers. So, based on this, you can literally have any number of chosen in your squad take thunderhammers.


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Ok, expanding on this strategy abit. I ... just thought of a way to use a land raider... lol.

So, use black legion, DA, nurgle sorceror and a Land raider with Mark of Nurgle. So, again, -1 to hit prayer, miasma, and the Land raider charges up the board and pops smoke. Flank it with two squads of combi bolter bikes for chaff clearing and so that he cannot use the cheap surround trick to prevent you from disembarking.

So now, turn 1, he needs to kill a 16W, 2+ save Landraider that is -3 to hit. Here is where the difference is. We put Abaddon, an exalted champion, and that squad of 8 chosen with thunderhammers into it.

Turn 2, Abby disembarks 3 inches from the LR, his base is huge, then he moves 6 inches, and he charges something big. (I heard that someone said here Abby can take down a knight on the charge). The chosen and exalted champion go off and kill another knight. Anyway, if they can't finish off something, have the Land raider's 4 lascannons finish the job. lol.

Its a ton of points, but wow... it will hit like a ton of bricks! And most importantly, we get to move Abby up the board and have him charge something in the opponents lines by turn 2!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I don't think Chosen are allowed to take that many melee weapons anyway though are they? I thought it was limited like the Special Weapons.

Either way, I think 6 dudes with Combi-Bolters and a Chaincannon will be my default to them.

I haven't opened the codex in a while though.

In the latest Errata (Jan?) they changed it so that any number of chosen can take item from the melee-weapons list.
(Restriction on combi/special-weapons are still the same as before.)

With that said, while giving a Rhino -2 to being hit is nice and all - if you're investing that many points in a Chosen-unit (and Apostle), I'd go all the way and put them in a Land Raider instead. You can still give it -2 to being hit.

Great minds think alike! See my post above yours, MinscS2!

I can't believe this new chaos codex and vigilus ablaze has managed to allow me to concoct a viable strategy that involves using a Land Raider.... lol

 MinscS2 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I don't think Chosen are allowed to take that many melee weapons anyway though are they? I thought it was limited like the Special Weapons.

Either way, I think 6 dudes with Combi-Bolters and a Chaincannon will be my default to them.

I haven't opened the codex in a while though.

In the latest Errata (Jan?) they changed it so that any number of chosen can take item from the melee-weapons list.
(Restriction on combi/special-weapons are still the same as before.)

With that said, while giving a Rhino -2 to being hit is nice and all - if you're investing that many points in a Chosen-unit (and Apostle), I'd go all the way and put them in a Land Raider instead. You can still give it -2 to being hit.

I thought the errata was just to strictly give them Chainswords like they had before. My mistake.

Thinking which way to take this new vigulus stuff and realised that since Flawless Host don't have to take mark of slanesh. You could take a Khorne host raptorial detachment and use the crimson crown. Say Jump pack lord with flawless cloak and +2 to charge trait, slanesh damemon prince with elixir to cast prescience and however you fancy taking a khorne character with crimson crown.

10 warp talons will drop in, charge on 7+, no 9ver watch, do 3 hits on a 5+ (4 to imperial). That's and adverage of 37 hits. Rerolling wounds, -2ap. For 3CP do it all over again.

Your lord and possibly khorne character following in could make a decent mele bomb that's more resilient that the bloodletters bomb and wounds pretty much anything under t8 reliably.