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Honestly, the 2d6 system would be almost exactly as complicated as the current 1d6 system. When you're learning it, you look up the results in the back of the rulebook. When you've learned what a '6' means, you don't need to look that result up. When you've learned what every result means, you don't need to look it up.

We memorize many more complicated rules for this game, what's six more results on a table?

Technically it's fewer since 6, 7 and 8 are all the same.

Platuan4th wrote:Reading this thread makes me think that no one here has played 2nd ed, as some of this(throwing grenades, cover modifies to hit, vehicle damage changes, Fantasy style assault, target selection, etc.) existed then and it made the game so slow it was unplayable at certain points levels.

I remember second edition fondly, and yes it did take about 6 hours to play a 3,000 point battle, but it was the best time of my week. If they dumb down 40K any more, it will be a Milton-Bradley board game with the entire rules and all the codexes printed on the inside of the box lid.

warpcrafter wrote:

Platuan4th wrote:Reading this thread makes me think that no one here has played 2nd ed, as some of this(throwing grenades, cover modifies to hit, vehicle damage changes, Fantasy style assault, target selection, etc.) existed then and it made the game so slow it was unplayable at certain points levels.

I remember second edition fondly, and yes it did take about 6 hours to play a 3,000 point battle, but it was the best time of my week. If they dumb down 40K any more, it will be a Milton-Bradley board game with the entire rules and all the codexes printed on the inside of the box lid.

Hyperbole much?

Actually, being able to outfit each guy individually like in the old rules would be nice, instead of the current 'x special weapons, and x generic ones' we currently have.

It would be nice if there was less emphasis on money and more on the hobby.

BaronIveagh wrote:Actually, being able to outfit each guy individually like in the old rules would be nice, instead of the current 'x special weapons, and x generic ones' we currently have.

That's a codex change, though, not a rules edition change.

Platuan4th wrote:Reading this thread makes me think that no one here has played 2nd ed, as some of this(throwing grenades, cover modifies to hit, vehicle damage changes, Fantasy style assault, target selection, etc.) existed then and it made the game so slow it was unplayable at certain points levels.

You forgot OVERWATCH!!!!

Where for 2 turns nothing occurred until someone wa forced to attempt to contend a table quarter or kill something...

Then the CSM havocs around the corner nailed their arses to the wall they just crept around...

Melissia wrote:Yech, Chris' one looks way too damn complicated to remember when you have about a dozen or more vehicles in your army...

This would discourage the current Mech-flavour we seem to see alot of.

A solution would be to record it somewhere in writing as you go... simlar to Warmachine wet-wipe cards.

BaronIveagh wrote:Actually, being able to outfit each guy individually like in the old rules would be nice, instead of the current 'x special weapons, and x generic ones' we currently have.

So basically you see armies of marines with nothing but flamers and meltaguns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AvatarForm wrote:This would discourage the current Mech-flavour we seem to see alot of.

If only because it's so stupidly designed noone wants to deal with it. Kinda like DnD's grapple system.

Melissia wrote:So basically you see armies of marines with nothing but flamers and meltaguns.

I don't see that as a winner, but, granted, I tend to forget that most people play Warhammer 40k now like they play M:tG, super competitive and no fun.

Oh yes, I definitely see that done. All that would result in is a bunch of people taking (relatively) cheap five man squads with drop pods and melta or flamers and filling the rest of hteir points with maxed out terminator squads or tanks. Five heavy flamers in a drop pod kills basically everything in one phase, while five meltas in a drop pod can kill any vehicle on turn one.

Melissia wrote:Oh yes, I definitely see that done. All that would result in is a bunch of people taking (relatively) cheap five man squads with drop pods and melta or flamers and filling the rest of hteir points with maxed out terminator squads or tanks. Five heavy flamers in a drop pod kills basically everything in one phase, while five meltas in a drop pod can kill any vehicle on turn one.

Unless your opponent is playing grey knights, at which point most of your army dies to automatic deep strike mishaps.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Unless your opponent is playing grey knights, at which point most of your army dies to automatic deep strike mishaps.

Oh yes, lets screw up the meta game further so that the only competitive armies are Marines deep striking with special weapon spam, and Grey Knights with their counter deep striking abilities.

Melissia wrote:If only because it's so stupidly designed noone wants to deal with it. Kinda like DnD's grapple system.

I didn't think it was stupidly designed. I base it off of BFG's critical damage table, and while that requires some note taking, it's not too hard to remember to be honest. I didn't think it qualified as 'stupidly designed', besides the added complexity (which I see as a virtue, not a loss) what parts are badly designed?

Melissa, sorry if this comes across wrong, but you sound like you don't really want any changes at all, ever. I don't think i've ever seen you say that you like an idea. I don't mean this to be insulting or anything, i'm just saying it as i see it.

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Then maybe a higher strenght hit or an actual AP. Personally it sucks when you blow a land raider and the power armored SMs inside only suffer a lasgun blast.

This would disproportionately spank races like Eldar and have other unintended consequences though.

90% of the posts on this thread are basically just ideas tossed out there where the poster hasn't considered the bigger picture much at all...

mercury14 wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Then maybe a higher strenght hit or an actual AP. Personally it sucks when you blow a land raider and the power armored SMs inside only suffer a lasgun blast.

This would disproportionately spank races like Eldar and have other unintended consequences though.

90% of the posts on this thread are basically just ideas tossed out there where the poster hasn't considered the bigger picture much at all...

How about a poison style hit on an actual AP? 3+ or 4+ will wound, then a standard armor save to save out. That means the 8 point troops with a 6+ save have a greater change of dieing than the better armored (and more expensive) MEQs. An even and fair chance to wound brought about by the vehicle exploding around your guys universally balanced out by the wargear of the actual troops inside the vehicle.

I think some variation of this idea would work very well.

a little rule to change, i would like to be able to choose to roll for reserves or delay them if it is too dangerous.

for example, a favourite tactic of a few guard players where i am is, against an outflanking army, to take al-rahem and say 40-50 men, then bring them on a flank and sit them there. for example, i saw this at a tournament and such a big blobbed unit takes up the ENTIRE board edge. This meant when 600 points of something, i think 2 units of stealers, outflanked to their, they couldn't deploy- and thus were destroyed.

It seems silly to me that they would go, right strategic insertion over there.
But we can't fit sir
then go and die profitlessly...

MightyGodzilla wrote:

mercury14 wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Then maybe a higher strenght hit or an actual AP. Personally it sucks when you blow a land raider and the power armored SMs inside only suffer a lasgun blast.

This would disproportionately spank races like Eldar and have other unintended consequences though.

90% of the posts on this thread are basically just ideas tossed out there where the poster hasn't considered the bigger picture much at all...

How about a poison style hit on an actual AP? 3+ or 4+ will wound, then a standard armor save to save out. That means the 8 point troops with a 6+ save have a greater change of dieing than the better armored (and more expensive) MEQs. An even and fair chance to wound brought about by the vehicle exploding around your guys universally balanced out by the wargear of the actual troops inside the vehicle.

I think some variation of this idea would work very well.

I think this is the best solution of all. Something like, 'Explosive damage always wounds on a 3+, and has an ap value of 3.' This means all troops, discounting terminators and such, are hit equally hard. Kudos to you for think that up sir.

Melissia wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:Actually, being able to outfit each guy individually like in the old rules would be nice, instead of the current 'x special weapons, and x generic ones' we currently have.

So basically you see armies of marines with nothing but flamers and meltaguns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AvatarForm wrote:This would discourage the current Mech-flavour we seem to see alot of.

If only because it's so stupidly designed noone wants to deal with it. Kinda like DnD's grapple system.

Hey, the d20 grapple rules are actually pretty simple, it's just no-one ever bothers to learn them, because they usually don't use them.


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loota boy wrote:

MightyGodzilla wrote:

mercury14 wrote:

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:Then maybe a higher strenght hit or an actual AP. Personally it sucks when you blow a land raider and the power armored SMs inside only suffer a lasgun blast.

This would disproportionately spank races like Eldar and have other unintended consequences though.

90% of the posts on this thread are basically just ideas tossed out there where the poster hasn't considered the bigger picture much at all...

How about a poison style hit on an actual AP? 3+ or 4+ will wound, then a standard armor save to save out. That means the 8 point troops with a 6+ save have a greater change of dieing than the better armored (and more expensive) MEQs. An even and fair chance to wound brought about by the vehicle exploding around your guys universally balanced out by the wargear of the actual troops inside the vehicle.

I think some variation of this idea would work very well.

I think this is the best solution of all. Something like, 'Explosive damage always wounds on a 3+, and has an ap value of 3.' This means all troops, discounting terminators and such, are hit equally hard. Kudos to you for think that up sir.

Nah, no AP. It's concussion and fire, meaning it'd ignore cover and any sort of 'I jump out of the way' stuff, and pretty much jelly and burn everyone equally, but that jelly and burning would be offset by wearing good armour that would absorb the concussive force and stop the flames from licking flesh.

That would actually be a full edition rules change, too- adding Concussive damage, which would be dealt by certain Blast Template weapons like Frag missiles and Kannons, Lobbas and other artillery, and maybe even certain other weapons, in the vein of Plasma or Melta (Thunderhammers). Stuff like Shokk Attack Guns wouldn't be Concussive, nor would Krak missiles, and things like Slaaneshi Noise Marine Sonic Blasters could have a Flame Template with Concussive damage.

There might even be certain options for Grenades, either as upgrades or wargear.

What I really want?

th edition updates to all the codices AT THE TIME OF CORE RULES RELEASE.

Don't need new units or special rules...save that for the actual codex...but GW, there is this thing called the internet...it allows for free distribution of information and updates in an almost instantaneous fashion....

Now see, the problem GW has with that idea is that little word "free." When they hear it their skins start to boil.