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Andrew1975 wrote:

Without a fundamental paradigm shift in human consciousness we will always have labels.

Kind of my point, I mean if we must have them can we at least settle on which ones are appropriate.

But to me, it's the difference between prejudice, and bigotry.

Prejudice is perfectly natural, and dare I say it, relatively healthy. People have a natural prejudice against anything not part of 'the norm'. But, Bigotry, is when one goes beyond prejudice. Prejudice can be dealt with on a case by case nature. Bigotry is more akin to 'well, this one person was an arse, therefore you are an arse'. And that is not so natural, and is more a matter of education (or miseducation I suppose)

4M2A wrote:

Regardless of what you "prefer", referring to someone as black is racist.

No it isn't. Describing someone as black isn't racist in any way. Your just making an observation, you haven't said there are lower or stereotyped them in any way.

Definition of racism:
The belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, esp. so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races

Care to explain how saying someone is black fits the definition?

Exactly, my Missus refers to herself as black, her Mother, Aunts, Uncles, Cousins all refer to themselves as Black...now are they racist?

Mr Mystery wrote:
For instance, call me a Jock, and I will beat the living gak out of you.

Are you in highschool?

See the following posts by myself...

Mr Mystery wrote:

Andrew1975 wrote:

Without a fundamental paradigm shift in human consciousness we will always have labels.

Kind of my point, I mean if we must have them can we at least settle on which ones are appropriate.

But to me, it's the difference between prejudice, and bigotry.

Prejudice is perfectly natural, and dare I say it, relatively healthy. People have a natural prejudice against anything not part of 'the norm'. But, Bigotry, is when one goes beyond prejudice. Prejudice can be dealt with on a case by case nature. Bigotry is more akin to 'well, this one person was an arse, therefore you are an arse'. And that is not so natural, and is more a matter of education (or miseducation I suppose)

I'm not understanding your point here. I'm just saying I don't care for the labels, but if we must have them, can we at least makes them logical, consistent and have a consensus on which ones to use?

AvatarForm wrote:By their parent-appointed names?

Not by social or other categorised terms?

I was making the point that it's good to be sensitive when applying names to various groups of people. Pretending that no such groups exist is madness, especially when so many people self-identify themselves with those groups.


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mattyrm wrote: How on earth is "black" offensive!? The German guy makes the most sense.

Well, yeah, that's the point of the story.

If something is that plainly obvious, I fail to see how it is offensive, I mean.. merely your colour?

It has a history of being used negatively.

If "black" is offensive, then surely white is offensive?

Only if the experiences of every ethnicity where identical.

Basically, people fething love to be offended. Look at Religious people, you cant say boo to them on dakka, even though it is 100% pertinent to a conversation. (ie. the reason I think that is because of my Religion)

And other people are always looking at ignoring whatever facts allow them to carry on saying and doing whatever they want, despite the real offence it causes to others. Both groups are equally tiresome.


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Frazzled wrote:It takes 22 muscles to frown
It takes 3 to smile

How many does it take to blow me?





(sorry, I just remember a mate's particularly annoying sister using that line one time, and another mate coming up with that response... comic gold)


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AvatarForm wrote:Regardless of what you "prefer", referring to someone as black is racist.

There are people who self-identify as black, who want to be called black by others. So, I ask you, what the hell are we supposed to do?


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Andrew1975 wrote:I'm not understanding your point here. I'm just saying I don't care for the labels, but if we must have them, can we at least makes them logical, consistent and have a consensus on which ones to use?

No, we can't. Because humans are complicated, and our social groups are even more complex. In most cases, the offensive nature of a word doesn't come from it's inherent nature, but from how it was used towards a certain person. I mean, the spanish word for black shouldn't be that offensive, except for the history of how that word was used in race relations.

Similarly, African American is about as bland as terms can get, except for a lot of black people it's come to stand for a very American approach to race relations, and one that leaves them right out of their own identity.

So really, I think the only practical solution is to find out how people prefer to be called, and use that.

So really, I think the only practical solution is to find out how people prefer to be called, and use that.

No I understand, I just don't understand how institutions are supposed to insure themselves against offense. I'm not concerned about people, I've got personal skills for that. I understand people are complicated, and that to force a label on them would cause more problems than it cures. But when I see news people scared and confused because they can't think of what the pc term for Black French people is, I just can't think there must be a better way.

FITZZ wrote:Exactly, my Missus refers to herself as black, her Mother, Aunts, Uncles, Cousins all refer to themselves as Black...now are they racist?

Herein exists the problem.

You end up with comedians like Chris Rock who make a living stereotyping themselves and their backgrounds, and noone has a problem.

It all circles back on itself and rests with groups identifying themselves as such, then crying racism when someone else uses it.

Whether intentionally derrogatory or not, the problem exists in the power certain labels have for the user and the target.

Everyone needs not to be butt hurt. Boom. Stoned Cannerus wins America.

AvatarForm wrote:Also, I am of italian heritage, and by your above desciption you would label me Hispanic. Now, forgiving your ignorance, but the simple fact that you view the world in this way makes you undeniably racist.

Actually you would be deemed as a Caucasian, although I've seen plenty of Italians and Greeks who are nowhere near as dark as most Puerto Ricans I know, I guess that you can say that you're an African American... I fail to see how you make any real valid arguments.

I would say that I am not a racist, I'm related to Mexicans, blacks, and just about everything except for oriental. My cousin is coming down from Maryland, he's mixed and we're going to get him some Space Marines this summer. My uncle is Mexican and he's the only member of that side of the family we care to associate with, mainly because the other members on that side of the family are horrible people. Seriously, when your grandmother on that side of the family ignores you for your entire life until her deathbed and disowns her daughter for being a lesbian, she is indeed a horrible person.

My mom used to babysit when I was younger and she looked after two black girls, they were over so often that they were like family and when their parents divorced we were saddened by the fact that their mother got off of her meds and got mad at accused our mom of abusing them, despite the fact that she(the kids' mother) hit them with a camera and my mother had never once hit them, hell we taught them how to swim.

My school was 70% black and I never got into trouble for doing anything discriminatory, now I did get mad and call some chick a 'female dog', now that I did get into trouble for. Its okay though, the principal decided to return the favor and called me said word, luckily my mom knows people on the schoolboard and well, that situation was dealt with.

My neighborhood makes me a minority, the court to the right of me is 100% black, my court is mixed; 2 black families, 2 philipino families, 3 white families(including one Italian family, so get off of your self-description I've seen Italians, hell my uncle is Italian and he married a Polish woman so I have no idea where you would be called black), 1 Mexican family, and 1 Puerto Rican family. Personally my favorite family is the Mexican family, they were living there when we started living there and they had kids our age and their mom made freaking fantastic tamales.

Again, I would call you ignorant if you think that you would be called 'Hispanic' for maybe having a tan and again I said that I don't use the term Hispanic. In fact I don't think you've actually read any of my argument, you keep insinuating that I am using the terms Hispanic and African-American despite the fact that I have clearly stated that I don't use those terms.

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:Everyone needs not to be butt hurt.

That doesn't sound like something you would normally say...

Some of those posts in the article were completely stupid IMO