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Dark Angels Champ-Master wrote:I still think it defies the purpose of the hobby

As mentioned previously, the objective of a hobby is to relax doing something you enjoy. There are people (me) that only paint and rarely play. How does that synch with your defined purpose (again emphasis on your definition) of the hobby if I choose not to play, or only play Apocalypse, or just let my kids set up figures.

There are others who only want to play and hate to paint. Why would you force them to do something that gives them absolutely no joy just because you have a purist view of your hobby? IMO, the fact that they dipped, gives me joy, because I like playing against other painted armies.

That's the great thing about this hobby. There are lots of ways of enjoying it. Some people like to assemble stuff (amazing stuff) but don't paint or play. I would suggest that you simply be happy that people are willing to paint (in any sort of way) so that you aren't playing against grey plastic.

As long as the models are beautiful, that is what matters.

Dark Angels Champ-Master wrote:I still think it defies the purpose of the hobby

You don't even know what the purpose of the hobby is, but if it really bothers you so much, we can go ahead and call a whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance for you.

The purpose of the hobby is for people to enjoy the time they spend doing whatever with their toys. I'm not surprised at your failure to understand it though. You seem to have a _serious_ problem about people having fun in ways you don't approve of. Pull the stick out of your ass. You don't get to decide how other people enjoy their hobby.

Dark Angels Champ-Master wrote:No because it's crap. But if the painter put a lot of pride and effort in the model then it should be respected.

There are no shortcuts to painting a 2000 point horde infantry IG army. There are simply smart ways to do it, or inasenly masochistic ways of doing it.

Its not fair.

Dark Angels Champ-Master wrote:I still think it defies the purpose of the hobby

This. .... I.... .... the hobby has so many sides to it that you are just not considering.

I've seen people play (heck I've played on) tables that were absolute gak, and nothing but household items scattered about. They still made for fun games, but the lack of real terrain did not make the game any less fun. Just like whether or not a building is painted or not does not make a difference in the fun, it just makes it more pleasing to paint, or play on, or whatever. I have a friend who "took that shortcut" and simply primed his 40k Buildings black, and then drybrushed them with grey. He was done painting all four buildings in about twenty minutes. Effort? Nill, effect? amazing.

Do you sneer at speed-painting too then? Most people wouldn't even have painted armies, or armies that they'd care to be proud of if it wasn't for the "shortcuts".........

"the hobby" is an area of common ground where army-list theoreticians, players, painters, assemblers and everyone in between pools together

Bookwrack wrote:

Dark Angels Champ-Master wrote:I still think it defies the purpose of the hobby

You don't even know what the purpose of the hobby is, but if it really bothers you so much, we can go ahead and call a whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance for you.

The purpose of the hobby is for people to enjoy the time they spend doing whatever with their toys. I'm not surprised at your failure to understand it though. You seem to have a _serious_ problem about people having fun in ways you don't approve of. Pull the stick out of your ass. You don't get to decide how other people enjoy their hobby.

Pfft, you are so wrong. Everyone must spend weeks painting each miniature to Golden Daemon levels. Then they must compile a super-competitive list, all else is a waste of time. Then, you should only play in tournaments, against armies painted to the exact same standard with the exact same painstaking method, unless you are playing practice games for the tournament (and even then, painting standards still apply). Each time you lose, you must remove a digit from your hand or foot. If you do not win the Golden Daemon award, you must swallow a cyanide capsule.

Anyone else who fails to meet these exacting standards... hmm. Not sure what to do to them. I know! Let's put them all in camps. Camps where they can concentrate on painting and playing in the proper fashion. We can call them Concentration Camps!




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PS, I say this with tongue firmly planted in cheek, as opposed to the fine chap who likened dipping to causing an international nuclear crisis.

Dark Angels Champ-Master wrote:Yeah but isn't army painter kinda like a cheat code?

Dark Angels Champ-Master wrote:I still think it defies the purpose of the hobby

All right. I call shenanigans. You've just stepped over the line.

A few posts ago you were a sadly mis-informed newb, ignorant of the history of the hobby and the technique you were complaining about.

Now...

You're just a Troll trying to keep an argument going.

Perhaps you should pick up some minwax and try it.

I second that motion. Having repeatedly looked at Dark Angels Champs gallery and seen nothing that vaugly qualifies as a well painted mini i think that a can of minwax is in order. watch a few videos on how to dip. Give it a shot and then look in AWE at the difference it will make in your minis. They deserve to look this good.

BTW. there are many facets to the hobby. They include, investing time in an artistic pursuit, collecting minis, playing the game, social interaction etc. I would not still be collecting the minis if i couldnt play with them. why? because frankly the level of detail that GW minis and models display is low compared to military models of comparable price coming out of italy and japan. Italeria makes far superior models for a much lower price.

Devlan Mud and Badab Black are my bestest friends evar.

Seriously, they just... make everything look better, especially if you're among the ungifted masses that struggle just to get drybrushing right.

I paint, I wash, I flock, I varnish. Bing, Bam, Boom, Done.

Speaking towards the OP - first, you're what, 13, I think it was? You should count washes as a blessing. Second, I took a look at your gallery. Now, I'll admit - I'm not Picasso. It's one of the reasons why I'm switching to 15mm and 6mm - the 3 foot rule makes everything look awesome. But I don't think you're in the position to label washes as 'cheating'.

I second that motion. Having repeatedly looked at Dark Angels Champs gallery and seen nothing that vaugly qualifies as a well painted mini i think that a can of minwax is in order.

I agree... I'm completely serious, Dark Angel Champ dude, your minis would benefit immensely from a dip or a wash of some kind.

For painters of average skill, there's nothing that a little Devlan Mud can't fix.

I am pretty sure Delvan Mud can't cure cancer.

Stavkat wrote:I am pretty sure Delvan Mud can't cure cancer.

What about the cancer of un painted armies

Well I admit theres only one army that looks good unpainted, and thats Sprue Crons. You cant really paint anything made out of just sprues, it would look unnatural! (unless its a terrain piece)

4M2A wrote:Troll? If your suggesting i'm a troll then you're mistaken. Having a different view doesn't make some one a troll. If I had posted a thread ranting at people who dip then maybe but so far all I have done is contributed my opinion to an open thread.

He's clearly talking about the OP.


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Dark Angels Champ-Master wrote:I am just saying, you got to respect armies that are painted without shortcuts

No, you're clearly just trolling. Going from "what about painting competitions?" to "I don't really care about panting competitions." within two posts makes that pretty clear.

Maybe you should go practice your painting and get a bit better at it instead of spending your time trolling here? It'd be a much better use of your time.


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nectarprime wrote:
Most of the folks who talk down about others using washes/dips are not very good themselves.

QFT

This thread makes me laugh when ever I read it, The OP gets worked up over nothing! he should really think about what he posts before posting it.

People have different methods. I remember when in the 2nd ed era I started from darker colours up and lightening them, leaving in shading, People looked at me as if I had a goats head and a frogs body... Nowadays it's how GW teaches you to paint...
Dipping and washing are great tools in a painters arsenal, just learn how to use them. You don't want the dipping to look like just dipping? Do some highlights after the matt varnishing as apparently it's possible to.
Still not got round to just dipping an army yet as I know that while it will look better than what I can do with my own skill, I would like to improve a bit first .

SO many people hate on the dip its unreal. I am going to put together a How Too for dipping marines along with a few other techniques thrown in. Its really shocking how nice a figure you can produce in about 20 minutes.

For all the haters. Get a grip. Let other people do what they want with their toy soldiers. Stop being so controlling and worry less about other people and more about yourself. Everyone including you will be happier.

After coming to the end of the thread, the thing I take away with me the most is being really quite surprised at how tolerant the Dakka mods are of obvious trolls.

I mean there are people with disparate views which are fine, whether I agree with an individual or not, but the OP's chain of posts clearly show us that there's a 13 year old chuckling to himself over how much crap he's been able to stir up in a very short time.

Sennacherib: you just finished this argument, your point is so valid. Seriously everyone stop worrying about what others do and look in your own backgarden.


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I also reckon that the OP has been band for a while as he hasn't spocken up about his trolling.

The OP still isn't a patch on the person who compared dipping to exterminating whole populations with atomic weapons.

Yes that post was a bit wrong, and I found it slightly offensive and off topic.

I think that if you like painting, you dont use army painter.

You'd be wrong though. I quite enjoy painting...

I recently started using armypainter quickshade to get things actually finished. I still enjoy painting immensely, but painting a horde of 200+ miniatures to your highest possible standard is just plain not possible. Not if you have a fulltime job, a household to run, social obligations, etc... So to get a finished army on the table that allows me to play a game that still looks more then ok, I get the can of quickshade out of my toolbox and use my airbrush for some basecoats.

For those models going in my display cabinet, I leave the quickshade in the toolbox. It's that simple! If you want to be an idealist who claims that nobody should use armypainter quickshade because you consider it beneath you... fine by me. I'll just deploy a fully painted army against your dozen or so painstakingly painted models in a sea of grey and metal (or finecast). That's the reality sadly. There is a reason why such a thing as "table top standard" excists. I'd much rather finish a gaming army quickly and efficiently, leaving me more time to finish display pieces that will never see the gaming table. You want to know why they'll never be used for gaming?

Playing games with your miniature can damage your fine paintjob... This is another example of why quickshade is an awesome and reasonable choice to paint your gaming armies with. Not only is it fast, it makes your miniatures quite "gameproof" as well. Not only that, but as an added bonus for seperating your gaming and display miniatures, you can actually paint whatever the hell you feel like painting without being bound to certain armies.

But I guess there will always be some form of "painting elitism". Others have already pointed out that about a decade ago, some asshats were pulling up their noses to people who drybrushed their miniatures. In reality however, they were often the ones fielding an army with only the characters painted, and like 2 or 3 models actually finished in a regiment/squad. /shrug

A paiting product is a painting product, saying that shades/washes/dipping paints is not fair is like saying that having a smaller brush to paint small details is cheating

I think army painter is just a quick way of painting and washing... Dont see whats not fair about it

Lots of people are butthurt that someone spent 10% of the time they did painting for similar or better results at 3 feet away.

IMHO, I personally have not dipped, although it sometimes sounds like an easy way out. Trying to handpaint my nids has been fun, but trying to handpaint 60 stealers to a quota I feel is appropriate is incredibly difficult. It is never far from the back of my mind, and sometimes I feel like I want to try it. but then I remember "Dude, you blew all your cash on that monolith you've always wanted, you cant afford to try that..."

Overall: Is it fair, yes. Is it practical, yes. BUT, would you feel accomplished after speed painting an army by using dipping? Probably not.

Rennoc215 wrote:Overall: Is it fair, yes. Is it practical, yes. BUT, would you feel accomplished after speed painting an army by using dipping? Probably not.

You might not feel accomplished but i'm sure hundreds of others do.