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Made in cn
Screaming Shining Spear





Hagerstown, MD

Mahtamori wrote:Technically the Warlock can replace such a biker, yes, but I don't see why you'd replace the biker with the Shuricannon since the Warlock will have his own wargear which is a standard jetbike
The rules do say that it's Guardian Jetbikers that may upgrade their under-slung.

Good catch on the Forceshield, to which I'll add that it's also inconsequently spelled. Force Shield in Autarch entry, Forceshield in wargear entry.


Well then shouldn't you mention that it's a warlock on a jetbike? As is worded either the rider on the jetbike becomes a warlock, leaving the ShuriCan on or the Guardian Jetbike model is replaced by a Warlock on foot. Always better to leave things without room for interpretation as I believe it currently does.

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Actually, when I read it as if I were a rules lawyer you replace the Guardian Jetbiker with a Warlock that's walking

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
Made in cn
Screaming Shining Spear





Hagerstown, MD

Mahtamori wrote:Actually, when I read it as if I were a rules lawyer you replace the Guardian Jetbiker with a Warlock that's walking


Exactly my point. Though I still think Warlock Bikers should be able to have ShuriCannons and Runes of Scoring for a massively overpowered you to Termies, Feel no pain, etc. ;D

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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

Nice attempts at rules-lawyering fellas, but I think I have already covered those bases.

felixander wrote:
Mahtamori wrote:Actually, when I read it as if I were a rules lawyer you replace the Guardian Jetbiker with a Warlock that's walking


Exactly my point. Though I still think Warlock Bikers should be able to have ShuriCannons and Runes of Scoring for a massively overpowered you to Termies, Feel no pain, etc. ;D


- For the Shuriken Cannon it says "One in every three Guardian Jetbikers may replace his twin-linked Shuriken Catapults with:" As Guardian Jetbiker is a different model/profile to Warlock, it's not a Warlock that's equipped with a Shuriken Cannon. Even so, do you really think I'd allow an AP1 Shuriken Cannon for 5pts?!

- For the Warlock that's walking, the entry states "The Warlock comes equipped with Rune Armour, Eldar Jetbike, Witchblade, Shuriken Pistol and Plasma Grenades".

I don't mind rules lawyering guys, and obviously it's something I try to account for in the creation of the Codex, but I'd rather such lawyering wasn't pedantic to be honest. I'm not trying to complain or offend everyone, but neither myself nor GW want to spell everything word-for-word, so some common sense should be applied please.


I may go back to the 'dex and add some new things however; completely original things that really fit the character of the Eldar and update the Codex. I'll try to immerse myself in the Eldar fluff and see what I can come up with, as if it were an official new Codex.

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Texas

Just Dave wrote:

- For the Shuriken Cannon it says "One in every three Guardian Jetbikers may replace his twin-linked Shuriken Catapults with:" As Guardian Jetbiker is a different model/profile to Warlock, it's not a Warlock that's equipped with a Shuriken Cannon. Even so, do you really think I'd allow an AP1 Shuriken Cannon for 5pts?!

- For the Warlock that's walking, the entry states "The Warlock comes equipped with Rune Armour, Eldar Jetbike, Witchblade, Shuriken Pistol and Plasma Grenades".




So this means if you want a warlock with the jetbikes and you want a shuriken cannon you have to have one more model? Ex 2 Normal Jet Bikes, 1 Shuriken Cannon Jet Bike, and 1 Warlock on Jet Bike?

 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

kenshin620 wrote:
Just Dave wrote:

- For the Shuriken Cannon it says "One in every three Guardian Jetbikers may replace his twin-linked Shuriken Catapults with:" As Guardian Jetbiker is a different model/profile to Warlock, it's not a Warlock that's equipped with a Shuriken Cannon. Even so, do you really think I'd allow an AP1 Shuriken Cannon for 5pts?!

- For the Warlock that's walking, the entry states "The Warlock comes equipped with Rune Armour, Eldar Jetbike, Witchblade, Shuriken Pistol and Plasma Grenades".




So this means if you want a warlock with the jetbikes and you want a shuriken cannon you have to have one more model? Ex 2 Normal Jet Bikes, 1 Shuriken Cannon Jet Bike, and 1 Warlock on Jet Bike?


Technically, yes.
This part isn't intentional however, so I'll clarify it.

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

Two potential ideas for additional units to fit with the fluff of the Eldar:

- Eldar in heavy, highly-advanced armour; appearing as [just-above] man-sized Revenant Titans, these would be of a role/construction similar to Tau Battlesuits, fitting with the specialised, highly advanced nature of Eldar, allowing them to fight without putting their warriors in too much danger. These guys would be of a similar price - but not tougher than - Terminators and be equipped with weapons such as twin-Catapults, Fusion Guns, Power Blades etc. Not sure if they'd be Guardians, Aspect Warriors or like a cross in-between.

- Anti-tank Aspect Warriors; says it all really. Would be something like Str8, AP1. Probably as Heavy Support. Three distinct flaws with this idea however; the Heavy Support is full already, Fire Dragons are close-ranged anti-tank and Shadow-spectres are longer-ranged anti-tank. However, there is some kind of niche/potential for this unit, particularly as ranged, infantry anti-tank.


I'm currently also working on a 'Why?' section and fluff for some of the new additions, which will be included in the next update.

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
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Hagerstown, MD

Sounds like a definite Aspect Warrior type of build. I can't see civilians with that kind of armor fulfilling an important tactical role.

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I really like the idea of Eldar Battlesuits. Personally i think they should be Aspect warriors.. seem to valuable to allow guardians to use them.

Dunno about another anti-tank unit. I dont think they really have a need for one.
   
Made in ca
Shas'ui with Bonding Knife





I'm of the opposite notion; The shattered and warp-pocketed entrance to a webway maze opens, and from it march the desperate guardians trapped inside - millenia have passed for us, but scant minutes for them as they cleared debris in their suits of lost technology. While too unweildy for most aspect warriors, these suits dramatically increase the combat effectiveness of every craftworlds' Guardian defenders.

OR SOMETHING LIEK THAT I DUNNO.

Proposed stats

28 ppm WS3 BS3 S3(6) T3(4) W2 I4 A2 Ld8 Sv3+

Slow and Purposeful
Acute Senses
Feel no Pain
Fleet

Shuriken Cannon
Bonesung Armour OR WHAT HAVE YOU
Plasma Grenades
Photon Grenades

Bonesung Armour: Doubles Str and Power Weapon, 3+ save, +1T +1W +1A +1I. Poisoned Weapons always roll on 5+ or worse? I dunno what else :V

Can swap S.cannon for an array of weapons?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/10 12:25:05


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Imperial Embassy

good read, but i spotted a few problems. one, all phoenix lords have no point values and two your special character in the elites slot has no point value

"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords 7681 points Preheresy thousand sons 8230 points Preheresy Iron Warriors 3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 2280 points preheresy space wolfs 1065 points preheresy white scars 3210 points preheresy sons of Horus 1660 points Grey Knights 628 points Sister of Battle 2960 points adeptus mechanicus 18650 points Titanicus legio Nex Caput capitis 5566 points Imperial Guard 5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 3735 points Preheresy World Eaters 1710 points Preheresy Word Bearers 2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 1570 points preheresy Alpha Legion 4600 points necrons 1420 points prehersy Raven Guard 960 points prehersy Salamanders 6334 points Tau Empire 20942 points tyranids 8722 points eldar 3125 points dark eldar 10745 points Bearers of the Light 1415 points Preheresy Luna Wolves 8508 points Chaos

 
   
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Lincolnshire, UK

If I do down the Guardian route - which is unlikely, as it won't explain the war mask schtuff - it'd probably be through Guardians that have previously walked the path of the Warrior and have their abilities are enhanced by the suits. Rather than following/worshiping Khaine, they follow/worship Asuryan.
The rules will be definitely somewhat similar to yours Chrisrawr, but I don't think I'll use that general method of background tbh.

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:good read, but i spotted a few problems. one, all phoenix lords have no point values and two your special character in the elites slot has no point value


Thanks, but check again. The Phoenix Lords points are at the top of their 1st page, Iranna's under the Warlock part of the Wraithguard entry.

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in gb
Fresh-Faced New User




chrisrawr wrote:I'm of the opposite notion; The shattered and warp-pocketed entrance to a webway maze opens, and from it march the desperate guardians trapped inside - millenia have passed for us, but scant minutes for them as they cleared debris in their suits of lost technology. While too unweildy for most aspect warriors, these suits dramatically increase the combat effectiveness of every craftworlds' Guardian defenders.

OR SOMETHING LIEK THAT I DUNNO.

Proposed stats

28 ppm WS3 BS3 S3(6) T3(4) W2 I4 A2 Ld8 Sv3+

Slow and Purposeful
Acute Senses
Feel no Pain
Fleet

Shuriken Cannon
Bonesung Armour OR WHAT HAVE YOU
Plasma Grenades
Photon Grenades

Bonesung Armour: Doubles Str and Power Weapon, 3+ save, +1T +1W +1A +1I. Poisoned Weapons always roll on 5+ or worse? I dunno what else :V

Can swap S.cannon for an array of weapons?


I like this for the most part. Though slow and purposeful seems wrong on this unit, on any Eldar unit for that matter.

I would also give it BS:4 to represent its technological awesomeness (Cant think of a better term) and reduce its close combat abilities, like remove the power weapons.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/10 14:26:06


 
   
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Imperial Embassy

Just Dave wrote:
TyraelVladinhurst wrote:good read, but i spotted a few problems. one, all phoenix lords have no point values and two your special character in the elites slot has no point value


Thanks, but check again. The Phoenix Lords points are at the top of their 1st page, Iranna's under the Warlock part of the Wraithguard entry.

cool thanks for pointing that out

"Those that Dare impersonate the dead are judged to join their ranks!"- Alucard
6970 points of Preheresy Night Lords 7681 points Preheresy thousand sons 8230 points Preheresy Iron Warriors 3230 points Preheresy Death Guard 4940 points preheresy Dark Angels 4888 points preheresy Iron Hands 2030 points preheresy Blood Angels 2280 points preheresy space wolfs 1065 points preheresy white scars 3210 points preheresy sons of Horus 1660 points Grey Knights 628 points Sister of Battle 2960 points adeptus mechanicus 18650 points Titanicus legio Nex Caput capitis 5566 points Imperial Guard 5875 points Preheresy Emperor's Children 3735 points Preheresy World Eaters 1710 points Preheresy Word Bearers 2090 points preheresy Imperial Fists 1570 points preheresy Alpha Legion 4600 points necrons 1420 points prehersy Raven Guard 960 points prehersy Salamanders 6334 points Tau Empire 20942 points tyranids 8722 points eldar 3125 points dark eldar 10745 points Bearers of the Light 1415 points Preheresy Luna Wolves 8508 points Chaos

 
   
Made in cn
Screaming Shining Spear





Hagerstown, MD

chrisrawr wrote:I'm of the opposite notion; The shattered and warp-pocketed entrance to a webway maze opens, and from it march the desperate guardians trapped inside - millenia have passed for us, but scant minutes for them as they cleared debris in their suits of lost technology. While too unweildy for most aspect warriors, these suits dramatically increase the combat effectiveness of every craftworlds' Guardian defenders.

OR SOMETHING LIEK THAT I DUNNO.

Proposed stats

28 ppm WS3 BS3 S3(6) T3(4) W2 I4 A2 Ld8 Sv3+

Slow and Purposeful
Acute Senses
Feel no Pain
Fleet

Shuriken Cannon
Bonesung Armour OR WHAT HAVE YOU
Plasma Grenades
Photon Grenades
Q
Bonesung Armour: Doubles Str and Power Weapon, 3+ save, +1T +1W +1A +1I. Poisoned Weapons always roll on 5+ or worse? I dunno what else :V

Can swap S.cannon for an array of weapons?


Slow and purposeful... And fleet? O.o I think Jetpack, no fleet is a better option.

Honestly though aren't war walkers just a big suit of armor with weapons? And the Forgeworld WASP a more mobile one? I know you were thinking more Crisis suit style but the more I think about it I believe we already have it. And I agree that Eldar do not need another anti-tank squad. I'm afraid that if you add too much opponents will start thinking its too much and not let you play it. I already have friends who say its over powered and won't play it :(

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/10 23:09:25


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Ios

Just Dave: maybe I'm just a lousy rules lawyer

Asuryan and Isha worship is sort of short on the craftworlds for some reason, though I can see plenty of homage to Vaul.

For some reason I see anything in combat where direct control of weapons is required to be a Aspect Warrior thing, while Guardians are more indirect through weapons interfaces and the likes.

I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

Mahtamori wrote:Just Dave: maybe I'm just a lousy rules lawyer

Asuryan and Isha worship is sort of short on the craftworlds for some reason, though I can see plenty of homage to Vaul.

For some reason I see anything in combat where direct control of weapons is required to be a Aspect Warrior thing, while Guardians are more indirect through weapons interfaces and the likes.


Is there any other kind of rules lawyer?

I agree with what you're saying regarding Guardians, minus Storm Guardians that's effectively been my intention for them. I think my idea regarding worshipping Asuryan is to make a war unit that doesn't worship Khaine, whilst such advanced suits can make sense with experienced Guardians IMHO. But probably gonna go with the Aspect Warrior theme; worshipping Khaine's unstoppable wrath.

felixander wrote:Slow and purposeful... And fleet? O.o I think Jetpack, no fleet is a better option.

Honestly though aren't war walkers just a big suit of armor with weapons? And the Forgeworld WASP a more mobile one? I know you were thinking more Crisis suit style but the more I think about it I believe we already have it. And I agree that Eldar do not need another anti-tank squad. I'm afraid that if you add too much opponents will start thinking its too much and not let you play it. I already have friends who say its over powered and won't play it :(


Do you reckon you could get your friends to say where/why they think it's overpowered? It doesn't have to be in huge detail or time-consuming, I'd just be interested to know where they think it's flawed, so I can either change it or provide my view on why it may not be?

I really know what you're saying about too many options though, most slots seem very well accounted for IMHO and it's the same size as my CSM Codex at least, and smaller than the current Space Marine 'dex. Really though, I've only added 2 non-unique units. I also admit, I think there may be room for this suit-style aspect warrior, particularly due to it requiring few numbers and having such a large battlefield impact, linking to the limited numbers/near-extinction of the Eldar.
Again though, I agree with what you're saying about not needing more units. I'm going to finish designing this one and see how it may fit...

Also, numbers of units in each 'dex, with brackets being upgrade characters, retinues, or daemonic units.

Codex Space Marines:
HQ - 15 (+2)
Elites - 8
Troops - 2 (+1)
Fast Attack - 7
Heavy Support - 8(+1)
Dedicated Transports - 3
Total - 44(+3) = 47

My CSM Codex:
HQ - 10(+1)
Elites - 7(+1)
Troops - 8(+1)
Fast Attack - 4
Heavy Support - 9
Dedicated Transports - 2
Total - 40(+2) = 42

My Eldar Codex:
HQ - 14(+1)
Elites - 7 (+1, +1)
Troops - 5
Fast Attack - 5
Heavy Support - 7
Dedicated Transports - 1
Total - 39(+3) = 42

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka






Lincolnshire, UK

The [attached] Codex has been updated.

Changes include:
- Changing the two Dark Reaper Exarch powers; definitely making Reapers worth taking and reducing the idea of the Reapers as 'cheerleaders' for the Exarch, as suggested by Maht'.
- Aligning the Force Shield with Forceshield and clarifying it as an invulnerable save.
- Eldar Fleet also INCREASES Fall Back distance; they're a dying race and it adds balance.
- Costs of Eldrad and Yriel bumped up.
- Plasma Missle is now AP5 to stop Power Diversion Matrix abuse.
- Adding a 'Why' section, like that in my Chaos Codex.


As ever, all feedback is welcome. Thanks.

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

I finally got around to replying to this...also a free bump to the top because that's where this should be.

My fiance plays Eldar, and while she loves the models, she's a little adverse to playing as she'll likely get crushed more often than not.

However, with this codex, the options and overall playability are improved by the perfect amount. The codex still feels very Eldar-y, and all the options almost make me want to pick up Eldar too.

This will likely be the codex I use whenever I play against her, and hopefully the codex I can get my fictional gaming group to adopt, if I ever get another one.

Excellent work, and truly the best example of a fandex I've yet to see. Hell, I don't even like CSM, but I'd pick up an army to use with your codex.

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Lincolnshire, UK

Thanks Blacksails. Seriously, thanks. That's a HUGE compliment and yours is an opinion I respect, so again, thank you. I'm glad you like it.


The Codex has been updated with a new piece of wargear: Runes of Persecution.

Runes of Persecution basically allows a Farseer to cast an Mind War or Eldritch Storm once-per-game (or twice if the psychic power is also purchased) on top of any other psychic powers.
This basically boosts their damage output and psychic potential.


On the subject of Farseers, I had considered allowing Spirit Stones to be purchased twice and stack; so you could effectively have a bog-standard Farseer casting 3 powers per-turn. However, as I'm sure opponents of Eldrad will vouch for; this is a pretty unfriendly mechanic at times. Even with a steep points cost of around 170pts or whatever with dual stones and powers, being able to cast 3x Guide/Fortune/Doom/Amplify/Fog of War is too much IMHO, and whilst Eldar psykers are bad-ass and the best in the galaxy and whatnot, being able to do this would simply be too much IMHO.
Hence, Runes of Persecution, as in my opinion, multiple offensive Powers like Mind War or Eldritch Storm is a lot less unfriendly or abusable than multiple army-boosters, like Fortune et al.

I had also considered allowing Exarchs/Warlocks to use the Ld of a Farseer on a successful psychic test (with immunity to perils), however I decided against his as Morale is too small a factor within 40K as it is.

Enlist as a virtual Ultramarine! Click here for my Chaos Gate (PC) thread.

"It is the great irony of the Legiones Astartes: engineered to kill to achieve a victory of peace that they can then be no part of."
- Roboute Guilliman

"As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of the Wolves, his ferocity twisted into grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly you were the attack dog of the Emperor. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then, and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I'm not the same as I was, and you're... well, let us not mention where you are now."
- Magnus the Red, to a statue of Leman Russ
 
   
Made in hu
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Just Dave wrote:
On the subject of Farseers, I had considered allowing Spirit Stones to be purchased twice and stack; so you could effectively have a bog-standard Farseer casting 3 powers per-turn. However, as I'm sure opponents of Eldrad will vouch for; this is a pretty unfriendly mechanic at times. Even with a steep points cost of around 170pts or whatever with dual stones and powers, being able to cast 3x Guide/Fortune/Doom/Amplify/Fog of War is too much IMHO, and whilst Eldar psykers are bad-ass and the best in the galaxy and whatnot, being able to do this would simply be too much IMHO.


Uhm... How about a simple limitation that says that one power could be casted only once per turn? So no triple Guide/Fortune/Doom/Amplify/Fog of War. Or just simply replace Spirit Stones with Psychic Mastery levels like in the GK 'dex.


Also, in my gaming group, we play-tested an Eldar "lazy fix" fandex that had one major, simple, but genius power boost: it improved the armour save of all Eldar models by 1 (except for jetbikes and wraith constructs). And hell, it really encourages fluffy armies (aspect warriors with aspect warriors)! It also had Aerial Assault and Assault Vehicle on all vehicles (AV as an upgrade for +20 points), and those were also solid changes.

My armies:
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Ios

Hey, that sounds extremely interesting, AtoMaki, although I don't think +1 armour is truly Eldarish. (Ok, 4+ on troop is suitable for Craftworlders, but 3+ or even 2+ Aspect Warriors... I'll have to consult my periodic time table for that one)

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Mahtamori wrote:Hey, that sounds extremely interesting, AtoMaki, although I don't think +1 armour is truly Eldarish. (Ok, 4+ on troop is suitable for Craftworlders, but 3+ or even 2+ Aspect Warriors... I'll have to consult my periodic time table for that one)


Well, their fluff is not exactly about being squishy (actually, it is pretty much the other way around), that's the Dark Eldar way. And they supposed to be the second most advanced race (after the 'crons), so super-duper armour saves could be easily justified.

My armies:
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Lincolnshire, UK

AtoMaki wrote:
Just Dave wrote:
On the subject of Farseers, I had considered allowing Spirit Stones to be purchased twice and stack; so you could effectively have a bog-standard Farseer casting 3 powers per-turn. However, as I'm sure opponents of Eldrad will vouch for; this is a pretty unfriendly mechanic at times. Even with a steep points cost of around 170pts or whatever with dual stones and powers, being able to cast 3x Guide/Fortune/Doom/Amplify/Fog of War is too much IMHO, and whilst Eldar psykers are bad-ass and the best in the galaxy and whatnot, being able to do this would simply be too much IMHO.


Uhm... How about a simple limitation that says that one power could be casted only once per turn? So no triple Guide/Fortune/Doom/Amplify/Fog of War. Or just simply replace Spirit Stones with Psychic Mastery levels like in the GK 'dex.


I honestly don't know why I didn't think about it being one of each power per-turn (which the current rules enforce anyway), rather than any number of any power.
I shall think about it a bit more then.

Also, in my gaming group, we play-tested an Eldar "lazy fix" fandex that had one major, simple, but genius power boost: it improved the armour save of all Eldar models by 1 (except for jetbikes and wraith constructs). And hell, it really encourages fluffy armies (aspect warriors with aspect warriors)! It also had Aerial Assault and Assault Vehicle on all vehicles (AV as an upgrade for +20 points), and those were also solid changes.


Are you suggesting a psychic ability that improves the armour save, or a general armour save improvement? Because, honestly, neither really appeal to me.
Fortune fulfils the former, whilst the latter isn't needed; the Eldar are meant to be fragile; they still have a lot of 3+/4+ saves in the army (in-fact IIRC only Guardians have an unmodifiable armour save of 5+) and it enforces tactical, hit and run play-style due to their low numbers and fragility.
As for assault vehicles, I have no intention for that either. Everyone and their mothers would want assault vehicles in any Codex, but that doesn't mean it should happen IMHO.

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Just Dave wrote:Thanks Blacksails. Seriously, thanks. That's a HUGE compliment and yours is an opinion I respect, so again, thank you. I'm glad you like it.



No problem, its refreshing to read such a well presented, thought out, and balanced codex. I can only imagine the amount of time you've invested in the two you've completed and the third you're working on (the one I'm most excited about), so the least you deserve is some positive feedback.

I came up with a 1500pts list I'll get future Mrs. Blacksails to run, something like this;


Farseer – Spirit stones, Runes of Warding, Guide, Doom/130pts

Fire Dragons (5) – Wave Serpent, Shuriken Cannon, Twin-linked Scatter Lasers/210pts
Fire Dragons (5) – Wave Serpent, Shuriken Cannon, Twin-linked Scatter Lasers/210pts

Dire Avengers (10) – Power sword, Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Wave Serpent, Shuriken Cannon, Twin-linked Scatter Lasers/270pts
Dire Avengers (5) – Falcon, Bright Lance, Power Diversion Matrix/235pts
Storm Guardians (10) – 2x Flamers, Wave Serpent, Shuriken Cannon, Twin-linked Scatter Lasers/185pts

Fire Prism – Power Diversion Matrix/130pts
Fire Prism – Power Diversion Matrix/130pts

Which, when compared to the current dex incarnation;


Farseer - Runes of Warding, Doom, Guide/115pts

Fire Dragons (5) - Wave Serpent, Scatter Lasers/195pts
Fire Dragons (5) - Wave Serpent, Scatter Lasers/195pts

Dire Avengers (10) - Exarch, Two Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm, Wave Serpent, Eldar Missile Launcher/272pts
Dire Avengers (10) - Exarch, Two Shuriken Catapults, Bladestorm, Wave Serpent, Eldar Missile Launcher/272pts
Dire Avengers (5) - Exarch, Bladestorm/87pts

Fire Prism - /115pts
Fire Prism - /115pts
Falcon - Eldar Missile Launcher/135pts

The two are strikingly similar, and pose the same number of AV12 hulls to deal with. I can easily swap the scatter lasers on two wave serpents to missiles, which would make both lists even more similar.

Initial analysis tells me they're both largely the same in terms of effectiveness, but its all the little tweaks that add up that makes your codex that perfect amount better. The power diversion matrices on the Prisms and Falcon give me more reliable anti-tank, while still maintaining the option of mobility. The Falcon is a great deal better with BS4, power diversion option, and the Pulse Laser being a defensive weapon. The farseer can cast two powers, which is really nice. Overall, its easy to ensure you have a good blend of anti-tank and anti-infantry with your dex, while still ensuring the Eldar are a low model count army overall.

I'll be seeing what else I can come up with, as the Autarchs unlock some really, really cool options.

Question about the armoured consort option for autarchs though; it says may take Falcons instead of wave serpents as dedicated transports. Does the option for Wave Serpents as dedicated transports still exist if that option is taken?

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Just Dave wrote:Are you suggesting a psychic ability that improves the armour save, or a general armour save improvement? Because, honestly, neither really appeal to me.


A general armour save improvement. Not for jetbikes or wraith constructs, but for everyone else.

Just Dave wrote:Fortune fulfils the former, whilst the latter isn't needed; the Eldar are meant to be fragile; they still have a lot of 3+/4+ saves in the army (in-fact IIRC only Guardians have an unmodifiable armour save of 5+) and it enforces tactical, hit and run play-style due to their low numbers and fragility.


I don't know if the Eldar meant to be fragile... Their codex pretty much points to the other way (just read the Eldar way of war on page 9). Fragility is the key word of the Dark Eldar. And for some units the durability boost come very handy (Striking Scorpions and Swooping Hawks being the two most favored).

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I would have to say, I'd be against the Eldar's saves improving by one across the board. It would overbalance them on the tabletop.

You should be using your higher mobility to win fights, not the "Stand here and take it" mentality of the Space Marines. It's what the Eldar are about. True, they aren't as fragile as their dark kin, but that's already true, so no improvements need to be made on that front to abide by the fluff.
   
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Amanax wrote:I would have to say, I'd be against the Eldar's saves improving by one across the board. It would overbalance them on the tabletop.

You should be using your higher mobility to win fights, not the "Stand here and take it" mentality of the Space Marines. It's what the Eldar are about. True, they aren't as fragile as their dark kin, but that's already true, so no improvements need to be made on that front to abide by the fluff.


Yes, but the biggest problem with Eldar is that they have to take damage because:
- They cannot assault out of their vehicles.
- They often lack the punch to completely slaughter everyone with the first try.
The DE can accomplish both of those, but the Eldar can't (thats why people take "instant-strike" units like jetbikes with the current dex). An improved durability across the board could greatly help to give a chance to the less "instant-strike" units like Striking Scorpions.

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AtoMaki wrote:Yes, but the biggest problem with Eldar is that they have to take damage because:
- They cannot assault out of their vehicles.
- They often lack the punch to completely slaughter everyone with the first try.
The DE can accomplish both of those, but the Eldar can't (thats why people take "instant-strike" units like jetbikes with the current dex). An improved durability across the board could greatly help to give a chance to the less "instant-strike" units like Striking Scorpions.

What always makes me reluctant to taking full squads of Avengers is disembarking 10 models from serpent after it moved. Single rear access point is kinda small and makes blasts/templates hurt like hell.
I know guard also has only one access but 5 fire points are more than enough to keep them safe while dishing out damage. Am I the only one who has problem with that?
I'm quoting AtoMaki because I feel that perhaps some mitigation in that area would increase survivability of Eldar troops without changing any stats.

Btw. I really want to commend you on this codex. Unfortunately there is almost zero chance my friends would allow playing with those rules so even though I carefully follow this thread I won't have any test results

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AtoMaki wrote:
Amanax wrote:I would have to say, I'd be against the Eldar's saves improving by one across the board. It would overbalance them on the tabletop.

You should be using your higher mobility to win fights, not the "Stand here and take it" mentality of the Space Marines. It's what the Eldar are about. True, they aren't as fragile as their dark kin, but that's already true, so no improvements need to be made on that front to abide by the fluff.


Yes, but the biggest problem with Eldar is that they have to take damage because:
- They cannot assault out of their vehicles.
- They often lack the punch to completely slaughter everyone with the first try.
The DE can accomplish both of those, but the Eldar can't (thats why people take "instant-strike" units like jetbikes with the current dex). An improved durability across the board could greatly help to give a chance to the less "instant-strike" units like Striking Scorpions.


See, and I feel things should move in the other direction. The problems you pointed out are true, however, going with more defensive stats would again promote a more static style of play. I would rather have more hit and run special abilities combined with slightly higher firing strength to provide that more mobile firepower that Eldar should be.
   
 
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