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The thing I've always wanted was a cavalry charge for cavalry and shining spears, similar to tank ramming; +1S for every 3" they move

-Post removed by insaniak. Feedback is great, but please remember Dakka's rule #1, which is to be polite.-

^

Dave's codex is actually pretty good. The local Eldar player in my gaming club playtested the codex and wih all his hardcore-Eldar-fanboyism and around 20 years of gaming expreience, he only found like 2 major and 2 "personal" problems...

I still stand by my statement that Daves work is somethign to be admired.
More importantly, and the thing I respect the most in this case, is that he takes criticism, (even completely ridiculous) in stride and only ever improves his work from it.
This is an important part toward building.
No matter how much players, myself included, complain about the unfair codexes or rules that get put out by GW, in the end, you'll find competitive games being played with many different armies, merely just some (tau) needing major upgrades to compete with the new edition dexes, (Necrons got a damn good one) and in the end the people writing the codex can stand above any criticism in the fact that it plays competitively in many different builds, doesn't prove to be to OP in terms of final results, and encourages many builds. (Though the many builds thing is something GW fails at kind of often.)
I garner admiration in Daves work in that he is attempting to reach this kind of balance.
I hope people posting hate, like some have very succesfully done, post it with critical points so the man can improve his work not just to be spiteful at his work.
Hope this support wasn't seen as unneccesary, and hoping Dave continues said work.

I was thinking about Asurmen's battle fate ability and well compared to rest of the phoenix lords its not really that great.

Its very situational and most of the time it goes to waste. Wouldn't an ability like +2 to bladestorm be better? Or make DA more more effective in cc?

As iv said before great work Dave, i have really enjoyed using your codex.

Been reading this and the chaos codex. I really like both, great job!

Mantis840 wrote:-Post removed by insaniak. Feedback is great, but please remember Dakka's rule #1, which is to be polite.-

As Insaniak said; feedback is great and I appreciate almost all feedback, but then there's someone posting comments with no support, no back-up and an attitude that suggests I ran over their puppy, which I didn't.

But hey, rather than just making snide comments or having a tantrum as a response, how about I suggest that you back-up your own comments and criticisms, before Insaniak (rightly, IMHO) deleted your response, I recall you saying a few things:
- That I've made units worse. Which ones? Name me any unit you think is worse than its current incantation. Personally, I can't think of any, except potentially Eldrad which is understandable considering his current power.
- That I've made upgrades more expensive. Which ones? If there are any, have I done this without justification?
- That I've ruined the dynamic or play-style of the Eldar? How? Aspect unit's are more specialised, the army hits harder, moves faster but is still very fragile and low on numbers. What they have in hitting power, speed and specialisation, they lack in durability, numbers and cheap-units. Try to tell me where this is different to what is stated or suggested in the fluff.

I_AM_THE_SLAW wrote:I was thinking about Asurmen's battle fate ability and well compared to rest of the phoenix lords its not really that great.

Its very situational and most of the time it goes to waste. Wouldn't an ability like +2 to bladestorm be better? Or make DA more more effective in cc?

As iv said before great work Dave, i have really enjoyed using your codex.

Thanks Slaw, appreciate the kind words and feedback, thanks man!
My reasoning behind Battle Fate is two-fold; 1st, I believe Battle Fate to be deceptive in its effectiveness; there are far more AP4 weapons than there are AP3, which can significantly increase their toughness against most weapons.
2ndly, Dire Avengers benefit most (IMHO) from being fearless as a result of being troops.

Definitely makes Eldar able to compete with T1 armies. Obviously a little bit less balanced in the Eldar player's favor, but MUUUUUCH less so than most Fandexs. I think it's reasonable enough and most importantly... if another player I didn't know showed me it and wanted to field it, I would honestly have no qualms against letting the, which I believe is the ultimate test. I also like what you did with the Autarch traits, allowing for many different Craftworld playstyles.

And BS4 Falcons!!!!

Codex has been updated.

Felixander; thanks a lot for the kind words! As you said, being willing to let an opponent use it is the ultimate test I reckon; cheers!

Next in my examples of potential Eldar lists, number 4, an Ulthwe list:


HQ - Autarch - Seer Strike Force - Solar Pulse, Broad Blades, Mandiblasters - 110pts


Elites - Farseer - Doom, Fortune - Runes of Warding, Runes of Emanation - 115pts

Elites - Farseer - Eldritch Storm, Fortune - Runes of Warding, Runes of Emanation - 115pts

Elites - 8 Harlequins - Troupe Master, Shadowseer - 3 w/ Harlequins Kiss, 1 w/ Kiss & Riveblades, 1 w/ Riveblades - 250pts


Troops - 10 Guardian Defenders - Bright Lance - Warlock w/ Conceal - 120pts

Troops - 10 Guardian Defenders - Bright Lance - Warlock w/ Conceal - 120pts

Troops - 10 Guardian Defenders - Bright Lance - Warlock w/ Conceal - 120pts

Troops - 10 Guardian Defenders - Shuriken Cannon - Warlock w/ Destructor & Singing Spear- 103pts

Troops - 10 Guardian Defenders - Missile Launcher - Warlock w/ Destructor & Singing Spear- 103pts


Fast Attack - 6 Swooping Hawks - Exarch w/ Intercept & Sunrifle - 132pts

Fast Attack - 6 Swooping Hawks - Exarch w/ Intercept & Sunrifle - 132pts


Heavy Support - 2 Support Weapon Battery's - Nova Lance - 90pts
2 Support Weapon Battery's - Nova Lance - 90pts
2 Support Weapon Battery's - Nova Lance - 90pts

Heavy Support - 2 Support Weapon Battery's - Shadow Weaver - 60pts


1750pts

I fear this list could be too powerful if anything. I think it also provides evidence to the usability Support Weapon Battery's and 'Hawks IMHO.

Number 5 in my example lists from the Codex: Mech Eldar. Arguably the most competitive army type in the current Codex, it can easily convert to my Codex.

HQ - Farseer - Fortune, Doom - Runes of Warding, Bonesinger - 135pts


Elites - 5 Fire Dragons - Exarch w/ Dragons Breath Flamer - 95pts
Dedicated Transport - Waveserpent 2x TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones - 110pts

Elites - 5 Fire Dragons - Exarch w/ Dragons Breath Flamer - 95pts
Dedicated Transport - Waveserpent 2x TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones - 110pts


Troops - 10 Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ Diresword, Shuriken Pistol & Bladestorm - 150pts
Dedicated Transport - Waveserpent - TL Scatter Lasers, Targetting Beacon - 115pts

Troops - 5 Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ Twin Avenger Shuriken Catapults - 75pts
Dedicated Transport - Falcon - Starcannon, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields, Spirit Stones - 185pts

Troops - 5 Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ Twin Avenger Shuriken Catapults - 75pts


Fast Attack - Asp - Twin-linked D-Cannon - 90pts

Fast Attack - Asp - Twin-linked D-Cannon - 90pts


Heavy Support - Falcon - Starcannon, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields, Spirit Stones - 185pts

Heavy Support - Fire Prism - 120pts

Heavy Support - Fire Prism - 120pts


Total: 1750pts

7 AV12 Hulls, including 2 Holofields with a Farseer for fortuned turbo-boost, 2 AV11 Hulls, 3 scoring units.
I'd actually say the army this would be strongest against is Draigowing; with 8 meltaguns, 2 Str9 AP2 Templates, 4 Str8 AP2 shots, 4 Str7 AP2 shots and 2 D-Cannons, combined with manoeuvrability, Paladins would have a serious problem.

That list has to be the best comparison to the current codex' Mechdar force, and most resembles what a lot of people would consider a tournament list.

Ultra durability due to the higher than average AV. Eldar Mobility. Upgraded weapons for a stronger punch.

With lists like this already being dangerous, with the upgrade to their weapons I wouldn't imagine this list would fair poorly at all.

Just Dave wrote:Number 5 in my example lists from the Codex: Mech Eldar. Arguably the most competitive army type in the current Codex, it can easily convert to my Codex.

HQ - Farseer - Fortune, Doom - Runes of Warding, Bonesinger - 135pts


Elites - 5 Fire Dragons - Exarch w/ Dragons Breath Flamer - 95pts
Dedicated Transport - Waveserpent 2x TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones - 110pts

Elites - 5 Fire Dragons - Exarch w/ Dragons Breath Flamer - 95pts
Dedicated Transport - Waveserpent 2x TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones - 110pts


Troops - 10 Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ Diresword, Shuriken Pistol & Bladestorm - 150pts
Dedicated Transport - Waveserpent - TL Scatter Lasers, Targetting Beacon - 115pts

Troops - 5 Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ Twin Avenger Shuriken Catapults - 75pts
Dedicated Transport - Falcon - Starcannon, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields, Spirit Stones - 185pts

Troops - 5 Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ Twin Avenger Shuriken Catapults - 75pts


Fast Attack - Asp - Twin-linked D-Cannon - 90pts

Fast Attack - Asp - Twin-linked D-Cannon - 90pts


Heavy Support - Falcon - Starcannon, Shuriken Cannon, Holofields, Spirit Stones - 185pts

Heavy Support - Fire Prism - 120pts

Heavy Support - Fire Prism - 120pts


Total: 1750pts

7 AV12 Hulls, including 2 Holofields with a Farseer for fortuned turbo-boost, 2 AV11 Hulls, 3 scoring units.
I'd actually say the army this would be strongest against is Draigowing; with 8 meltaguns, 2 Str9 AP2 Templates, 4 Str8 AP2 shots, 4 Str7 AP2 shots and 2 D-Cannons, combined with manoeuvrability, Paladins would have a serious problem.

By comparison what you get that's similar with the 4th edition codex:

Unnamed1750 Pts - Eldar Army

1 Farseer (HQ) @ 145 Pts
#Ghosthelm; Doom; Fortune; Runes of Warding; Spirit Stones; Witchblade;
Shuriken Pistol

4 Fire Dragons (Elites) @ 212 Pts
Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs
1 Exarch @ [28] Pts
Dragon's Breath Flamer; Melta Bombs
1 Wave Serpent @ [120] Pts
#Energy Field; #Capacity:12; Spirit Stones; Shuriken Cannon Upgrade;
TL Shuriken Cannon

4 Fire Dragons (Elites) @ 212 Pts
Fusion Gun; Melta Bombs
1 Exarch @ [28] Pts
Dragon's Breath Flamer; Melta Bombs
1 Wave Serpent @ [120] Pts
#Energy Field; #Capacity:12; Spirit Stones; Shuriken Cannon Upgrade;
TL Shuriken Cannon

9 Dire Avengers (Troops) @ 282 Pts
Avenger Shuriken Catapult
1 Exarch @ [49] Pts
Bladestorm; Shur. Pistol & Dire Sword
1 Wave Serpent @ [125] Pts
#Energy Field; #Capacity:12; Shuriken Cannon Upgrade; TL Scatter
Lasers

4 Dire Avengers (Troops) @ 222 Pts
Avenger Shuriken Catapult
1 Exarch @ [29] Pts
2 Avenger Shuriken Catapults
1 Wave Serpent @ [145] Pts
#Energy Field; #Capacity:12; Spirit Stones; Shuriken Cannon Upgrade;
TL Starcannons

4 Dire Avengers (Troops) @ 77 Pts
Avenger Shuriken Catapult
1 Exarch @ [29] Pts
2 Avenger Shuriken Catapults

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 115 Pts
TL Shuriken Catapults; Prism Cannon

1 Fire Prism (Heavy Support) @ 115 Pts
TL Shuriken Catapults; Prism Cannon

1 Falcon (Heavy Support) @ 195 Pts
#Capacity: 6; Spirit Stones; Holo-fields; Shuriken Cannon Upgrade;
Starcannon; Pulse Laser

1 Vyper (Fast Attack) @ 65 Pts
TL Shuriken Catapults (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)

1 Vyper (Fast Attack) @ 65 Pts
TL Shuriken Catapults (x1); Missile Launcher (x1)

Models in Army: 40
Total Army Cost: 1705

(Discrepancies: Vypers are so terribad that they do not compare with the Asp. Wave Serpents can't be given Holo-fields in 4th edition codex.)

Another list; this time a reserve/Altioc themed list:

HQ - Autarch - Master Strategist - Eldar Jetbike - Solar Flare, Laser Lance, Fusion Gun - 145pts

HQ - Autarch - Master Strategist - Eldar Jetbike - Laser Lance, Fusion Gun - 135pts


Elites - 5 Fire Dragons - Exarch w/ Crackshot, Webway Translator - 110pts

Elites - 5 Fire Dragons - Exarch w/ Crackshot, Webway Translator - 110pts


Troops - 5 Rangers - Star Rifle - 105pts

Troops - 5 Rangers - Star Rifle - 105pts

Troops - 5 Rangers - Star Rifle - 105pts

Troops - 7 Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ Twin Catapult, Bladestorm, Webway Translator, Web Beacon - 127pts

Troops - 6 Dire Avengers - Exarch w/ Twin Catapult, Bladestorm, Webway Translator - 111pts

Troops - 4(5) Guardian Jetbikes - Web Beacon, Shuriken Cannon, Warlock w/ Conceal - 155pts


Heavy Support - 3 War Walkers - 2 w/ 2x Scatter Laser, 1 w/ 2x Starcannon - 180pts

Heavy Support - 3 War Walkers - 2 w/ 2x Scatter Laser, 1 w/ 2x Starcannon - 180pts

Heavy Support - 3 War Walkers - 2 w/ 2x Scatter Laser, 1 w/ 2x Starcannon - 180pts


1748pts

Again, I'd say another solid list. Jetbikes (with Autarchs) and Rangers start on board, the bikers and autarchs boosting forwards for a 3+ cover save, further protected by a Solar Flare if needed.
Then, reserves will be modified until everything is wanted, at which point the War Walkers outflank for side and rear-armour shots, the Avengers home in to pepper troops and steal objectives and the Dragons appear to fry heavy armour.
I'm pleasantly surprised to say all bases seem covered and it seems like another, viable but themed list possible with the Codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks for posting a comparison mech-list Maht', saved me doing it!

This is amazing Dave, really cool. You have managed to encompass everything I could hope for Eldar in a FANDEX!!! (No offense) I think I will try to play using these rules. Now, if only I could find a fandex for Space Marines('nilla)...

Haha, thanks man, appreciate the kind words! No offence taken, I know fandex's are often a bit... Questionable as it were! Thanks again man, that means a lot. If you do play with it please let me know how it goes.
Ironically, I'm actually currently working on making a Fandex for (Vanilla) Space Marines.

I would be quite pleased if this was the real update for the Eldar codex alot of good changes to make certain units more useable, keep up the good work !


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After reading it more warlocks can get like 6 or 7 attacks in close combat? warseer + assail + pistol/ccw pretty crazy they can also have WS 6 and Iniative 6 too, are they meant to be that good?

One thing I'm still kind of bummed about; Rangers.

Their special rule is slightly off; normally, to-hit rolls of 6 do nothing, so there's that (you were thinking of to-wound rolls, and ap2.)

Secondly, they're bs4 sniper rifles. As we can see from Ratlings at 10ppm being less than useless, sniper rifles are almost never a very good choice for anything, ever.

For example, what you're looking at here is a total of 1.3r unsaved wounds per turn against MEQ, from 10 rangers. With a Pathfinder and Star Rifle, we get ~1.83r UW/MEQ

This is 200+ Points! Sure, they are gaining a 2+ cover save in most scenarios, which makes them acceptable campers against a decently sized portion of opponents. But starting from the other side of the board, moving slowly and not running, >200 points of any other unit in the entire game (including gretchin, firewarriors, and zombies)< can kill them. When you have a unit that cannot, in any situation, make up its own points value, and doesn't even serve as a credible enough threat to prove as a DISTRACTION...

My offer: Ranger Rifle is at least 48" range, maybe even 60. Heavy 2. Rangers drop down to 15 points per model. Star Rifle is Pinning as well as Rending, Heavy 2. Pathfinder Upgrade confers BS5. Ranger Rifle "To-Hit" rolls of 5+ are AP1. Ranger Rifle "To-Wound" rolls of 5+ are rending.

What this does:

10 Rangers is 150 points.
They put out 13.3r hits per turn.
4.4r of these hits are AP1. 2.2r of those ap1 hits wound, 1.48148r of those would rend anyways leaving....

6.6r wounds, 4.4r of which are rending, .741 of which are ap1, and 1.48148r of which rend at ap1.

Roughly 7.4 unsaved wounds against meq from a decent distance, with little fear of heavy weaponry or mass weaponry reprecussions. Can damage AV11/12 vehicles fairly consistently, if not severely.

This also makes the Ranger and Star Rifle (both expensive upgrades) actually worth their points - almost a guaranteed directed wound each turn for something that comes out at minimum to almost the expense of a vindicare assassin, with much less versatility.

What if their weapons were assault instead of heavy?

Mahtamori wrote:What if their weapons were assault instead of heavy?

Doesn't get them much, and doesn't fit well with the fluff of their sniping style. Now instead of a stationary point with 2+ cover and 36" range, you have a moving point with variable cover and 36" range. Neither of them can do any real damage, and neither of them can assault a held objective, so you can continue ignoring them as usual.

I don't want to lower their cost; they're supposed to be the expensive militia. They're not really as great as an aspect warrior, so they need to have wargear that does awesome things, and a gimmick.

The gimmick is they're AP1 on a to-hit roll of 5+.

HOWEVER!

This AP1 hit has a 50% chance of being WASTED.

So you have a 1/6 chance of an AP1 hit and a 1/6 chance of a rending hit (if you continue to have rending on 5+ as well) meaning that only a small amount of your shots can do >anything<, and you're limited to 60 people who can actually >shoot< so if you're only putting out 60 shots, you have 10 of these that are ap1 and 10 of these that rend and 6.6r of the AP1 shots are ALSO RENDING. meaning you're only REALLY getting 13.3r shots OUT OF 60 that ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING AT ALL, and that's only to INFANTRY! And 60 Rangers is 1080 points. What else can you get for 1080 points? 24 twin-linked lascannons and 16 heavy bolters over 8 vendettas. 6 Dreadnoughts in drop pods with a MotF. 180 ork boyz (that's right - you're forgetting that 10 rangers costs as much as a full 30 boyz! And they can do absolutely nothing against them, either!)

Increasing the range, and rending on 5+ from Rangers makes them almost worth their points. I want to remove the out-dated 4th edition sniping rules from their To-Hit roll (it makes them clunky), and lower their points, rather than give them anything more.

Final damage output is 6.6r hits, 3.3r wounds. 2.2r of which rend, 2.6 total unsaved vs meq for 150 points. If they stay at 18-20 points, I'd probably want to see their shots output doubled on top of a range increase.

Won't download right.

Freakehh wrote:I would be quite pleased if this was the real update for the Eldar codex alot of good changes to make certain units more useable, keep up the good work !


Automatically Appended Next Post:
After reading it more warlocks can get like 6 or 7 attacks in close combat? warseer + assail + pistol/ccw pretty crazy they can also have WS 6 and Iniative 6 too, are they meant to be that good?

Thanks man, that's a huge compliment and working as effectively an official 'dex is basically exactly what I aim for, cheers!

Regarding Warlocks, at 37pts base they could have 4-5 attacks standard in close combat. However, bear in mind this is on a WS4, I4, T3 model and doesn't ignore armour saves. For 52pts each they can have 5-6 attacks at WS/I5, but this is a particularly large points cost IMHO.
Compare it to Assault Terminators for example who have stat 4's all-round, 2+5++, 3 base attacks, ignore armour and re-roll wounds for 3pts more.
I can understand the concern regarding Warlocks, but I feel that a unit of Warseers w/ assail is too 1-dimensional and expensive to work as well as it may initially seem IMHO.

chrisrawr wrote:One thing I'm still kind of bummed about; Rangers.

Their special rule is slightly off; normally, to-hit rolls of 6 do nothing, so there's that (you were thinking of to-wound rolls, and ap2.)

Secondly, they're bs4 sniper rifles. As we can see from Ratlings at 10ppm being less than useless, sniper rifles are almost never a very good choice for anything, ever.

For example, what you're looking at here is a total of 1.3r unsaved wounds per turn against MEQ, from 10 rangers. With a Pathfinder and Star Rifle, we get ~1.83r UW/MEQ

This is 200+ Points! Sure, they are gaining a 2+ cover save in most scenarios, which makes them acceptable campers against a decently sized portion of opponents. But starting from the other side of the board, moving slowly and not running, >200 points of any other unit in the entire game (including gretchin, firewarriors, and zombies)< can kill them. When you have a unit that cannot, in any situation, make up its own points value, and doesn't even serve as a credible enough threat to prove as a DISTRACTION...

My offer: Ranger Rifle is at least 48" range, maybe even 60. Heavy 2. Rangers drop down to 15 points per model. Star Rifle is Pinning as well as Rending, Heavy 2. Pathfinder Upgrade confers BS5. Ranger Rifle "To-Hit" rolls of 5+ are AP1. Ranger Rifle "To-Wound" rolls of 5+ are rending.

What this does:

10 Rangers is 150 points.
They put out 13.3r hits per turn.
4.4r of these hits are AP1. 2.2r of those ap1 hits wound, 1.48148r of those would rend anyways leaving....

6.6r wounds, 4.4r of which are rending, .741 of which are ap1, and 1.48148r of which rend at ap1.

Roughly 7.4 unsaved wounds against meq from a decent distance, with little fear of heavy weaponry or mass weaponry reprecussions. Can damage AV11/12 vehicles fairly consistently, if not severely.

This also makes the Ranger and Star Rifle (both expensive upgrades) actually worth their points - almost a guaranteed directed wound each turn for something that comes out at minimum to almost the expense of a vindicare assassin, with much less versatility.

Thanks for the input man.

I fear what you may describe may be a problem with the sniper rules in general rather than specifically rangers.
I think as it stands my incarnation of Rangers may be the best Sniper unit in the game (bar Deathmarks?), I mean despite the damage-output issues associated w/ sniper rules, they are still tough in cover, handy for webway and have a lot of versatility and movement shenanigans. I still find myself including them in lists designed with the 'dex, particularly as solid objective holders and on-board beacons in deep-strike lists.

I really appreciate the input man, although I feel your suggestion is too far in the other direction: 7.4 unsaved MeQ wounds, from 48", with 2+ cover at 150pts and able to damage tanks is wheyhey too much IMHO.
I'll look into a possible change to them, but I think they're a solid unit atm, within existing sniper rules at least.
Good spot with the to-wound vs. to-hit thing though, I shall change that. Thanks!

thephenomenalZ wrote:Won't download right.

Bugger. Sorry man, that's nothing I can personally help you with. If you PM me an email address I can try emailing you a copy.

Yeah, I'd initially over-halved the number of wounds from them when calculating heavy 2, which is why my second post reneges on that in favour of a simple range increase and the rending fix. I don't even think I'd keep AP1 in the mix; too many dice to designate as different when it all comes down to it. It worked fine when your to-hit roll determined your damage, but it just ain't kosher anymore

Dave: Thank you for making codices that should bring out what so many other's fail to do: Make EVERY unit in the codex worth taking! I can't explain how much more fun, in depth, and in general 'Eldar-y' this fandex is, it makes me squee! ^^

Some very good ideas here, excellent work. I particularly like making Guardian squads outflank - suddenly, they're fun and sneaky!

On a second look through I have a few things I think are kinda over powered. The first of which are Starcannons. WHOA! Useful Starcannons?!?! But seriously, I think the combo of dropping their price dramatically AND giving it an extra shot is a bit too much. Power diversion matrix is really interesting, BUT for 5 points those Pulse Laser/Starcannon Falcons now get 5 shots that gain +1 on the damage chart from being AP1? I know you're sacrificing Eldar's ever important mobility to do it, but with 36" range you have some room to toy with it. Especially since you can run an Eldar gunline (?!?!?!) now. Plus EMLs' plasma is then AP3, MEQ players will cry foul all day =P Just junk food for thought!

The Starcannon isn't Heavy 3, it's S7 Heavy 2. The point regarding Plasma Missile is very valid, though, since that risks having EML Walkers be seriously versatile - both decent against armour and very good against MEQ.

Let's compare with the Codex Space Marine.
Autocannon has roughly the same stats as a Star Cannon, one less AP (which admittedly is rather huge) and 6" more range. At BS4, the converted cost of an Autocannon is 25 (10 points for multi-melta, +15 points to upgrade to twin-linked Autocannon).

Just Dave's point costs for Starcannon seem just about right when directly compared to one of the more bland 5th edition codexes.

Dave, question for you: was it intentional that Eldar Missile Launchers should have such varied costs? 25 points on BS4 Wraithlord, 20 points on BS3 War Walker and BS4 Falcon, 15 points on BS3 Vypers, BS3 Guardians, and twin-linked BS3 Serpents (as well as 10 points to replace BS5 Reaper Exarch weapon).

Mahtamori wrote:Dave, question for you: was it intentional that Eldar Missile Launchers should have such varied costs? 25 points on BS4 Wraithlord, 20 points on BS3 War Walker and BS4 Falcon, 15 points on BS3 Vypers, BS3 Guardians, and twin-linked BS3 Serpents (as well as 10 points to replace BS5 Reaper Exarch weapon).

Hey Maht, I had another look at the 'dex in response to this point, as when you put it like that, it is weird.
However, this was intentional; it's typically costed as slightly less depending on the platform.
For example, on the Guardians and Vypers it's a BS3 platform that's replacing an existing weapon; the Shuriken Cannon.
On the Falcon, it's due to its manoeuvrability and the general stacking of points on the heavy weapons: Shuriken < Scatter & Star < EML < Bright Lance
On the Wraithlord it is again, the weapon stacking and due to BS4 working better with 1-shot weapons.

Would you say the points cost makes it imbalanced or a poor choice on any of these? Personally, I wouldn't.

chrisrawr wrote:Yeah, I'd initially over-halved the number of wounds from them when calculating heavy 2, which is why my second post reneges on that in favour of a simple range increase and the rending fix. I don't even think I'd keep AP1 in the mix; too many dice to designate as different when it all comes down to it. It worked fine when your to-hit roll determined your damage, but it just ain't kosher anymore

Aye. I think snipers (and pinning) as a whole needs fixing, which will hopefully come in 6th Ed.

felixander wrote:On a second look through I have a few things I think are kinda over powered. The first of which are Starcannons. WHOA! Useful Starcannons?!?! But seriously, I think the combo of dropping their price dramatically AND giving it an extra shot is a bit too much. Power diversion matrix is really interesting, BUT for 5 points those Pulse Laser/Starcannon Falcons now get 5 shots that gain +1 on the damage chart from being AP1? I know you're sacrificing Eldar's ever important mobility to do it, but with 36" range you have some room to toy with it. Especially since you can run an Eldar gunline (?!?!?!) now. Plus EMLs' plasma is then AP3, MEQ players will cry foul all day =P Just junk food for thought!

Starcannons didn't gain an extra shot, but a point of strength. They're effectively longer-ranged Plasma Rifles that don't Get(s) Hot, or are roughly equal in power to Plasma Cannons, but more-so than Autocannons.
They're priced as they're effectively the same level as Scatter Lasers; they have half the shots, but greater strength and AP. In doing the maths they typically have an equal damage-output, but Starcannons are fethed by cover. Lets be fair, they needed a big fix from their current 'dex.
My reasoning for the Power Diversion Matrix is as you said; you loose the all-important Eldar movement. Not only does the wargear itself come with a restriction (needing to stay still), but you're paying for it. Most Eldar vehicles (and all tanks?) can move 12" and fire all their weapons; having to stay still can really hinder them; losing out on speed and to an extent toughness (flat-out cover and vulnerable to other attacks).

You do raise a good point on the EML; shall be edited.

evildrspock wrote:Some very good ideas here, excellent work. I particularly like making Guardian squads outflank - suddenly, they're fun and sneaky!

Thanks man, I appreciate it!

TheMostSlyFox wrote:Dave: Thank you for making codices that should bring out what so many other's fail to do: Make EVERY unit in the codex worth taking! I can't explain how much more fun, in depth, and in general 'Eldar-y' this fandex is, it makes me squee! ^^

Wow. HUUUUGE compliment mate; depth, fun, characterful and full of options is what I aim for and that I can apparently fulfil that whilst making someone squee is huge; thanks a lot.




N.B. Holy weird quoting order Batman!

Ah, no, it was pure lack of attention that some were upgrades while others were purchases. Still used to the good ol' 'dex.

I am a bit sad that the groups I game with only accepts official sources so I'll never be able to have a go with this codex more than number crunching.

You're right about it being H2, I must have had some extra derp that day. But I still think a lot of people will call foul on the AP1 tanks, maybe it needs a price hike? But that's just an opinion.

BUT! Page 46 does say that a Forceshield is a 4+ armor save (triple checked) and in a GJB squad couldn't the Warlock replace the ShuriCan biker? And abuse Runes of Scoring as the jetbike and weapon are his then and he gets 6 S4 Ap1 shots? Seems a bit too powerful.

Technically the Warlock can replace such a biker, yes, but I don't see why you'd replace the biker with the Shuricannon since the Warlock will have his own wargear which is a standard jetbike
The rules do say that it's Guardian Jetbikers that may upgrade their under-slung.

Good catch on the Forceshield, to which I'll add that it's also inconsequently spelled. Force Shield in Autarch entry, Forceshield in wargear entry.