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broodstar wrote:

Poppabear wrote:\silly things such as Neo Nazi's wondering around screaming "HEIL HITLER" are not put up with and people who say things like this deserve to be shot. Which in some cases they are.

So, "Freedom of Speech" is "Freedom of Death"? Wow!!!! (sings) And I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free....

Or at least not aware/watched enough to think you can do anything. The chap we are discussing posted something on the biggest public forum about a huge issue. He got noticed and since the news providers here scour the Internet for content it got put in front of the beak. An idiot gets nicked is not news to me, I think that Facebook did noting about it (to the extent that its action would actually protected its user, said idiot) was actually the real story. No wonder offensive trolling is so common there.

This also comes off the back of any Internet based communication being pretty much permanent written record. You write some thing offensive about someone then it's not just a bit of name calling, it will hang there as a reminder pretty much forever.

This thread makes me think that many Americans seem to be terrified of their government?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Johnny-Crass wrote:
First off we Americans say YEE-HAW?

I've made a noise similar to YEE-HAW, but I live in the south, and I was drunk.

At this point I just think you don't realise you are doing it, pard-ner.

notprop wrote:
This thread makes me think that many Americans seem to be terrified of their government.

To understand America... America is a little psychotic.

There was a guy that tried to run for a local office in my town that described himself as an anarchist. An anarchist running for a government office, does anyone else see something wrong there!?

It depends on what region the the guy your talking to is from. We have people that don't like the government and we have people that run up and give the government a big hug.

I've seen it in both liberals and conservatives.

Conservatives say to Uncle Sam "hands off my medical decisions!" and sees a woman walking into an abortion clinic, "you should be making her decisions." Liberals say to Uncle Sam "Don't tell me how I should medicate myself but I want you to pay for my healthcare"

America is only 236 years old, we are like a college kid. It may take us a while to make up our minds, but when we do, we can do some amazing things.

Maybe what you Americans don't understand is that here in the UK, we have the EDL and Combat 18.

I also find it very ironic that you Americans have the audacity to preach 'freedom' to the rest of the world. America, the country that still has executions, Guantanamo Bay, and the Republican party that by our standards are, frankly, fascists.

Sturmtruppen wrote:Maybe what you Americans don't understand is that here in the UK, we have the EDL and Combat 18.

There are white power movements in the US, too. In fact, you may have heard of one of them. They wear white hoods.

I also find it very ironic that you Americans have the audacity to preach 'freedom' to the rest of the world. America, the country that still has executions, Guantanamo Bay, and the Republican party that by our standards are, frankly, fascists.

That's nonsense. The Republicans are not fascists by any stretch of the imagination - it's just name-calling, pure and simple.

I am going to say this again for the 10th time on this forum.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE SPEECH...People need to read some philosophy. Read all of this.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freedom-speech/

Specifically "Paternalistic Justification for Limiting Speech"

You should never start talking about things you have no idea about, and 99.9% of people have no idea what Free Speech actually means, they use it as "I Win" button in an argument and are absolutely wrong. Equally people who say I am entitled to an opinion, No you are not, you can give an opinion but by what "Title" do you hold an opinion, as a Citizen. A Doctor can give a "Medical Opinion" because he is entitled too the clue is in the title DOCTOR, same with an Engineer, or Any Professional position that would be admissable in a court of law. You can give an Opinion as a Citizen or are not entitled to one.

John Adams would be turning in his grave if people believe that Free speech means the right to abuse, denigrate and say all manner of offensive material to anyone for any reason. Everyone is responsible for what they say. Otherwise Jihadist Terrorists could justify "Death to the West", Racist People could justify their racism, Sexist People could justify sexism.

There is no such thing as Free speech as a Layman would understand it. It is a complete fallacy and is used by pseudo intellectuals to defend, undefendable positions. It's the same when people say British Constitution or Rights? There is no such thing, it is a loose affiliation of documents, rulings, case law, not a codified (though amended) single document like the United States.

Sturmtruppen wrote:Maybe what you Americans don't understand is that here in the UK, we have the EDL and Combat 18.

you have EDL we have KKK
you have Combat 18 we have AB

I also find it very ironic that you Americans have the audacity to preach 'freedom' to the rest of the world. America, the country that still has executions, Guantanamo Bay, the Republican party that by our standards are, frankly, fascists.

executions...right? so what do you do with your serial killers?
Guantanamo Bay...so, what do you do with your POWs?
Republicans = Fascist...ooooh, I could start an international incident over that. But for the sake of the forum, I wont.

broodstar wrote:
executions...right? so what do you do with your serial killers?
Guantanamo Bay...so, what do you do with your POWs?
Republicans = Fascist...ooooh, I could start an international incident over that. But for the sake of the forum, I wont.

While not condoning sturmtruppens comments;

Serial Killers - Secure mental facilities
PoWs - PoW camps and facilities conforming to Queens regulations and international law. I thought Gitmo prisoners were Illegal Combatants ergo storing them off shore under questionable rules?
Republican - British ones, traitors to her Majesty; American ones a slightly differant type from the other lot you have but broadly similar.
Publicans - salt of the earth types that sell you beer.

notprop wrote:[I thought Gitmo prisoners were Illegal Combatants ergo storing them off shore under questionable rules?

If your a normal guy, you sit in your cell, get a meal maybe 2 a day, the library cart comes around once a week. If we think you have information we want, that's a different story. Don't knock torture that's how Bin Laden is dead.

Republican - British ones, traitors to her Majesty;

OMG, what did the British Republican Party do?

sebster wrote:So Fraz's thing where he pretends I can't know about American politics because I don't live there... I guess that he's given up on that, because he sure does like to tell the British how they're doing it wrong.


Meanwhile, in the UK you aren't allowed to say racial slurs in a public forum. In the US you can't say rude words on television, or have pictures of boobs.

I don't really agree with either restriction, but the idea of the two countries claiming that the above proves they've got more freedom is just stupid.

get off your high horse. You're not British either.

I don't know why I bothered posting the above. This is turning into a Brit vs Yank Fratricide, will everyone stop with the half formed opinions and the my cock is bigger than your cock infantile arguments (Britains Great vs America's Awesome) it's pointless and detracts from the central issue which is Free Speech in the UK. See my previous post,

What do you think Gitmo looks like? What does that gak hole look like?




Does it look any worse than your countries prisons? and that's the guys we don't give a F about.

Frazzled wrote:

sebster wrote:So Fraz's thing where he pretends I can't know about American politics because I don't live there... I guess that he's given up on that, because he sure does like to tell the British how they're doing it wrong.


Meanwhile, in the UK you aren't allowed to say racial slurs in a public forum. In the US you can't say rude words on television, or have pictures of boobs.

I don't really agree with either restriction, but the idea of the two countries claiming that the above proves they've got more freedom is just stupid.

get off your high horse. You're not British either.

No, but like all non-Brits he wants to be. He is entitled to his frustration.

broodstar wrote:What do you think Gitmo looks like? What does that gak hole look like?

Does it look any worse than your countries prisons? and that's the guys we don't give a F about.

I need to point this out, because you are not listening. The Prisoners in British Prisons are there because they have been to trail and found guilty by a British Jury (the one exception was Abu Hamza who was awaiting deportation to Jordan). Last I checked no one at GITMO had a trial. Please do not confuse your Detention Facilities with a Prison.

Frazzled wrote:

sebster wrote:So Fraz's thing where he pretends I can't know about American politics because I don't live there... I guess that he's given up on that, because he sure does like to tell the British how they're doing it wrong.


Meanwhile, in the UK you aren't allowed to say racial slurs in a public forum. In the US you can't say rude words on television, or have pictures of boobs.

I don't really agree with either restriction, but the idea of the two countries claiming that the above proves they've got more freedom is just stupid.

get off your high horse. You're not British either.

Frazz, dude, Let it go the dude can say what he wants.

Marmite and Haggis.

Have you heard about the Marmite famine in New Zealand?

I had actually, I could only assume they were using it to cover sheep to keep the "rustlers" from interferring with the food chain?

Kilkrazy wrote:Marmite and Haggis.

Have you heard about the Marmite famine in New Zealand?

I have actually. New Zealand is making prepartions for invasion of Australia to procure enugh of this vital natural resource. They are arming their sheep bombers as we speak.

Drop bears vs. killer sheep, no matter who wins, we lose.

Actually getting back on topic, I have question for all the "polite societies".

If a comedian is telling joke, and that audience is laughing except for that one guy, did the comedian create a public nuisance?

broodstar wrote:Actually getting back on topic, I have question for all the "polite societies".

If a comedian is telling joke, and that audience is laughing except for that one guy, did the comedian create a public nuisance?

Considering we have Frankie Boyle I'm not sure what your point is.

broodstar wrote:Actually getting back on topic, I have question for all the "polite societies".

If a comedian is telling joke, and that audience is laughing except for that one guy, did the comedian create a public nuisance?

I believe the performing arts are exempt from such liabilities. Otherwise my case for damages from the makers of the Green Lantern would have netted me a cool million by now!

First define public nuisance.

Depends entirely on the content and situation. A famous British Comedian "Roy Chubby Brown" was an uber offensive comedian, and would literally say anything. He has often been boo'd off stage or had things thrown at him. But because he is a Performer, this is a persona and he is playing a role. It does not reflect his personality. So therefore no, in the same way that actors who act even an abhorent character (Ed Norton, American History X) aren't prosecuted.

If he differentiated and said this is my personal opinion he may leave himself open.

Joey wrote:
Considering we have Frankie Boyle I'm not sure what your point is.

That's it! that's the my offensive comedic material in Brittan? You are not going to like American Comedy.



This is Carlos Mancia, and if Frankie Boyle is consider offensive, this guy will make you have a heart attack.

Frankie is clever with it, he is offensive without resorting to swearing (too often!). The other thing is that it's very risky in the UK to start going for people in the public eye. You can find yourself in court. I'm pretty sure this is the same in the US.

broodstar wrote:

Joey wrote:
Considering we have Frankie Boyle I'm not sure what your point is.

That's it! that's the my offensive comedic material in Brittan? You are not going to like American Comedy.



This is Carlos Mancia, and if Frankie Boyle is consider offensive, this guy will make you have a heart attack.

Carlos can't be racist. He's brown, durr.

broodstar wrote:

Joey wrote:
Considering we have Frankie Boyle I'm not sure what your point is.

That's it! that's the my offensive comedic material in Brittan? You are not going to like American Comedy.



This is Carlos Mancia, and if Frankie Boyle is consider offensive, this guy will make you have a heart attack.

If he actually called his stand-up "not for the easily offended" then the guy is clearly a moron.

Calling it stand up is a bit rich. This is like a 16 year old ranting in the park after drinking too much white lightning or Buckfast.

mwnciboo wrote:Frankie is clever with it, he is offensive without resorting to swearing (too often!). The other thing is that it's very risky in the UK to start going for people in the public eye. You can find yourself in court. I'm pretty sure this is the same in the US.

We do have a guy named Bill Cosby that didn't swear, but you can read a book and be better entertained.
Really you can't talk mess about the queen, prime minister or athletes and such? We attack each other all the time. Why? it's entertainment.

broodstar wrote:
Really you can't talk mess about the queen, prime minister or athletes and such? We attack each other all the time. Why? it's entertainment.

I'd imagine there's a stark difference between having a joke at their expense, and actually claiming something to be true, which might be considered libel.

Different from inciting racial hatred of course.

UK libel laws are a nightmare.

People have gotten in to trouble for libel just for pointing out that homeopathic remedies don't work.

Which is provably and undeniably true, but the lying scumbag snake oil salesmen don't like it when we tell people that.