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Isn't truth an absolute defence against libel?

Apparently not in the UK.

I'm not aware of any such claims or cases. Perhaps you could shed a little light Melissa?

Back to Broodstar - yes you can make jokes about anyone and anything here. Frankie Boyle is pretty well know for making some rather crude jokes at the Queens expense (amoungst others).

Allot of the comedy is irreverant and sureal so most topucs are okay as it is obviously comedy.

If your routine consisted of

"knock, knock"

"Who's there?"

"XXXX is a Peado!"

Even if everyone in the room laughed XXXX would be consulting the lawyers unless it was already proven XXXX was a nonce.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2011/03/society_of_homeopaths_director_richard_barr_libel.php

Comes to mind. As does the case of Simon Singh, though he was eventually (after a long and expensive court battle) victorious.

What Melissia says is true.

It is an increasing problem with the Libel laws in the UK.

Not to mention super injunctions because you don't want the public to know what you've actually been doing so you try and get a court gagging order on the media. It gets granted so the if you break it you are in contempt of court, but it doesn't matter because everyone on the internet and even Politicians using the Parliamentary priviledge can break it.

On the other side of the coin if someone like a Lord or Politician gets convicted for something its open season, you can literally rip them a new a-hole and no one will bat an eyelid.


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broodstar wrote:

mwnciboo wrote:Frankie is clever with it, he is offensive without resorting to swearing (too often!). The other thing is that it's very risky in the UK to start going for people in the public eye. You can find yourself in court. I'm pretty sure this is the same in the US.

We do have a guy named Bill Cosby that didn't swear, but you can read a book and be better entertained.
Really you can't talk mess about the queen, prime minister or athletes and such? We attack each other all the time. Why? it's entertainment.

Don't confuse swearing with comedy, it can be done well, but humour can come from different things. A child can swear, doesn't make them funny. The best TV Comedy I have ever seen is "In the Thick of it" about a Political spin doctor and his reign of fear over politicians. Made a good film too, superbly written very funny.

Yes, you can talk about them and make fun of them but you cannot say " That Queen eh? What a C*%t." Like a re-tarded child with tourettes.

Off topic, Carlos Mencia is the worst comedian ever, and he steals all his jokes off other people. I heard that on the radio when I was in CA, and apparently he has been caught doing it several times.

On topic, yeah its a troll topic. Why is it still open? I'm aggressively pro American of course so I wouldn't personally, but if someone made a thread called "So Americans can just /insert enmasse statement due to gak news story" its pretty much just an obvious troll isn't it?

Frankly I admire our British sense of fair play for even debating in this thread when the initial premise is so ridiculous.

And the guy who asked knows it as well!

mwnciboo wrote:Not to mention super injunctions because you don't want the public to know what you've actually been doing so you try and get a court gagging order on the media. It gets granted so the if you break it you are in contempt of court, but it doesn't matter because everyone on the internet and even Politicians using the Parliamentary priviledge can break it.

On the other side of the coin if someone like a Lord or Politician gets convicted for something its open season, you can literally rip them a new a-hole and no one will bat an eyelid.

A seperate issue, but super injunctions are something that I really do have a major problem with.

mattyrm wrote: Off topic, Carlos Mencia is the worst comedian ever, and he steals all his jokes off other people. I heard that on the radio when I was in CA, and apparently he has been caught doing it several times.

On topic, yeah its a troll topic. Why is it still open? I'm aggressively pro American of course so I wouldn't personally, but if someone made a thread called "So Americans can just /insert enmasse statement due to gak news story" its pretty much just an obvious troll isn't it?

Frankly I admire our British sense of fair play for even debating in this thread when the initial premise is so ridiculous.

And the guy who asked knows it as well!

A lot of comics steal jokes. Dane Cooks routine is very reminiscent of Louis K, Joe Rogan called him on it and drama ensued. I happen to like mind of Mencia. I could do without his actual comedy sets.

WARNING I WILL MAKE A FEW BROAD GENERALIZATIONS

This all goes back to a simple difference that started back in the 1600's the people who stayed in Britain were always more of a toe the line mentality on average.

American were the loners and the rough edged individuals who wanted to have more freedom from restraint.

Our justice systems are different our cultures are different our view of free speech is different but that does not mean either way is wrong it is just different.

I prefer our verision of Free Speech because it is part of what makes this country great ( a spirited debate of the facts) BUT this also means we must let the idiots who spew hatred speak.

For the Brits there system doesn't tolerate this kind of hatred. so your life can be ruined. Then again they have some laws that make us look like a bunch of Wild eyed Zealots.

In short differenty strokes for different folks the only difference is here in american its on your social group to give you hell. In england if you cross a certain line the police will do it.

AustonT wrote:
A lot of comics steal jokes. Dane Cooks routine is very reminiscent of Louis K, Joe Rogan called him on it and drama ensued. I happen to like mind of Mencia. I could do without his actual comedy sets.

Mate Dane Cook is fething awful as well.. and Joe Rogan! They are both worse than Mencia, your correct and I take it back.

I've found that often Americans become quite upset simply because the British refuse to believe that their country is all that great. Its OK, I suppose. Passable even. Occasionally it can be quite interesting. But its not super-awesome-wintastic. For some reason that really twists their nipples?

The U.S doesnt have free speech. Look at the FCC. there existence violates the first amendment.
The Brits are doing the same thing. Just with hate crimes.

hotsauceman1 wrote:The U.S doesnt have free speech. Look at the FCC. there existence violates the first amendment.
The Brits are doing the same thing. Just with hate crimes.

Thats so wrong its not funny. The FCC regulates radio frequencies only. You can't go to jail.


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ArbeitsSchu wrote:I've found that often Americans become quite upset simply because the British refuse to believe that their country is all that great. Its OK, I suppose. Passable even. Occasionally it can be quite interesting. But its not super-awesome-wintastic. For some reason that really twists their nipples?

Hardly. I view British opinion of the US just above how I view any other country's opinion of the US, which means its about equivalent in concern to a bucket of warm spit. Be glad if it were not the UK, Canada, or Australia I'd consider it equal to a bucket of room temperature spit.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I've found that often Americans become quite upset simply because the British refuse to believe that their country is all that great. Its OK, I suppose. Passable even. Occasionally it can be quite interesting. But its not super-awesome-wintastic. For some reason that really twists their nipples?

I told you, I've lived in both, and I understand both extremely well. Britain loves a loser. Tim Henman would have been a bus boy if he was American!

It think its due to many things, partially because of the war and a lingering paranoia, also an enforced feeling of unity taken after the collapse of the USSR. I also once saw a programme about it that said Britian and America are inherently the way they are because the people that had that entrepreneurial spirit and get up and go and positive outlook buggerd off to the US in search of their fortune. The "Its never gonna work" crowd stayed home.

That's one reason why kids pledge at school.. my missus said she did it at school and they all stood and saluted the flag, I thought she was winding me up, and her state is liberal! Can you imagine us singing the national anthem in primary school? I cant blame them, and I cant even say if its a bad thing or not. Maybe if we were the colony and not the motherland I would feel the same way. In the US, a place I would happily live by the way, these are tiny flaws, but you really do get TV show hosts and radio DJs and commercials regularly (at least once a week I hear it) saying "greatest country on earth!" all the time. And Freedom everything.. Freedom fries, Freedom FM, Freedom this and Freedom that. "GREATEST NATION ON EARTH" is something you might expect in China, but its a common statement in the USA.

It sounds totally bizarre, but the USA to this day has something of a chip on its shoulder. Britain being the place that started it all is the opposite, and folk here regularly say how terrible they are at everything, complain incessently, lack drive, and say "back in the good old days" and "my grandad said..."

America is a nation with a winners, Britain is a nation of whiners. These might be hard things for people of both countries to hear, but trust me on this...

As I said a few threads back.. and my American missus says regularly. Somewhere in the middle of where Britain and America currently stand, would result in the best place to be, not so jingoistic and desperate to be top cat all the time, not so dour, filled with pessimism, and a contentment with always being the underdog.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I've found that often Americans become quite upset simply because the British refuse to believe that their country is all that great. Its OK, I suppose. Passable even. Occasionally it can be quite interesting. But its not super-awesome-wintastic. For some reason that really twists their nipples?

Bill Bryson touched on that in one of his books about the USA.

Of course everyone probably prefers their own native country.

Frazzled wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:The U.S doesnt have free speech. Look at the FCC. there existence violates the first amendment.
The Brits are doing the same thing. Just with hate crimes.

Thats so wrong its not funny. The FCC regulates radio frequencies only. You can't go to jail.

And TV. They regulate what you can put through the air waves. They impose fines, y'know punishment. Punishment for doing something that is guranteed by the first amendment.

mattyrm wrote:
As I said a few threads back.. and my American missus says regularly. Somewhere in the middle of where Britain and America currently stand, would result in the best place to be, not so jingoistic and desperate to be top cat all the time, not so dour, filled with pessimism, and a contentment with always being the underdog.

Your use of facts, logic, and considered moderation have no place in this forum!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hotsauceman1 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:The U.S doesnt have free speech. Look at the FCC. there existence violates the first amendment.
The Brits are doing the same thing. Just with hate crimes.

Thats so wrong its not funny. The FCC regulates radio frequencies only. You can't go to jail.

And TV. They regulate what you can put through the air waves. They impose fines, y'know punishment. Punishment for doing something that is guranteed by the first amendment.

See what happens when you don't have free speech? *
*outside of 3 minutes in the morning to check on traffic I haven't atched network TV in years.

Frazzled wrote:
Your use of facts, logic, and considered moderation have no place in this forum!

Start an Islam thread, Ill throw that gak out the window!

Hey Frazzled, this guy got booted out of school for using the F word on a tweet at 2am...

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/high-school-expels-student-tweeting-f-word-204216086.html

Land of the free, baby, land of the free...

Johnny-Crass wrote:

A Town Called Malus wrote:
And we here in the UK don't do torture or murder.

You could say "So and so sucks! He needs to feth off!"

You couldn't say "So and so is a fething N*****r and should be strung up from a tree, YEE-HAW!"

We do have free speech. We just hold people accountable for what they say. Responsibility and all that.

First off we Americans say YEE-HAW? Secondly you are telling me you have never mouthed off to someone and had them know it is just plain BS with no weight at all?

I was using an exaggeration to highlight the fundamental difference in what can get you arrested and what can't. A stereotype the entire world knows is the racist, redneck cowboy who likes to watch the lynchings on a sunday afternoon. It helps him relax after the cross burnings of the previous night.

To answer your second question, no I generally don't mouth off to someone if I don't have a reason to. What's the point? There's plenty of things I can whine about with actual evidence to back up my opinions. Such as all our politicians being lying, thieving scumbags.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I've found that often Americans become quite upset simply because the British refuse to believe that their country is all that great. Its OK, I suppose. Passable even. Occasionally it can be quite interesting. But its not super-awesome-wintastic. For some reason that really twists their nipples?

It's because the US is pretty much a teenager bragging about it's sexual conquests. It has to be loud and brash to hide its insecurities about itself and its worth....
Britain went through that phase when we had our Empire. We're like "Been there, done that, got the T-shirt and diamond mines". Now we've reached the other side where we can all sit and grumble happily. We feel best when we have something to moan about.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:Hey Frazzled, this guy got booted out of school for using the F word on a tweet at 2am...

http://games.yahoo.com/blogs/plugged-in/high-school-expels-student-tweeting-f-word-204216086.html

Land of the free, baby, land of the free...

You missed this part:

The school appears no longer to be speaking publicly, on the advice of its attorney. Meanwhile, some of the students threatened a protest on Friday, so much so that police were called.

In other words:
Ka Ching!

Yeah, I doubt that expulsion is going to hold up. Unlike the jail time for the person in OP of this article.

Also not how American aren't saying "people have the right not to be offended by seeing the F-Word in other in tweets" or otherwise supporting this idiocy ...

Albatross wrote:

Sturmtruppen wrote:Maybe what you Americans don't understand is that here in the UK, we have the EDL and Combat 18.

There are white power movements in the US, too. In fact, you may have heard of one of them. They wear white hoods.

I also find it very ironic that you Americans have the audacity to preach 'freedom' to the rest of the world. America, the country that still has executions, Guantanamo Bay, and the Republican party that by our standards are, frankly, fascists.

That's nonsense. The Republicans are not fascists by any stretch of the imagination - it's just name-calling, pure and simple.

It IS name-calling, isn't it? And name-calling simply on the basis of who someone is! He didn't take into account what kind of emotional state Republicans who read that might have been in, or how the normal response among freedom-loving people to fascism is to go to war to end it. By Jove, I think he just incited to violence based on identity! Someone get the British police to put on those cute round hats and go lock him up.

This thread is a fascinating study in the age old "Freedom To versus Freedom From" debate.

For the record, I come down on the "Freedom To" side. Do I like what some racist schmuck has to say? Absolutely not. Does that mean he should be jailed for saying it? Absolutely not.

mattyrm wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I've found that often Americans become quite upset simply because the British refuse to believe that their country is all that great. Its OK, I suppose. Passable even. Occasionally it can be quite interesting. But its not super-awesome-wintastic. For some reason that really twists their nipples?

I told you, I've lived in both, and I understand both extremely well. Britain loves a loser. Tim Henman would have been a bus boy if he was American!

It think its due to many things, partially because of the war and a lingering paranoia, also an enforced feeling of unity taken after the collapse of the USSR. I also once saw a programme about it that said Britian and America are inherently the way they are because the people that had that entrepreneurial spirit and get up and go and positive outlook buggerd off to the US in search of their fortune. The "Its never gonna work" crowd stayed home.

That's one reason why kids pledge at school.. my missus said she did it at school and they all stood and saluted the flag, I thought she was winding me up, and her state is liberal! Can you imagine us singing the national anthem in primary school? I cant blame them, and I cant even say if its a bad thing or not. Maybe if we were the colony and not the motherland I would feel the same way. In the US, a place I would happily live by the way, these are tiny flaws, but you really do get TV show hosts and radio DJs and commercials regularly (at least once a week I hear it) saying "greatest country on earth!" all the time. And Freedom everything.. Freedom fries, Freedom FM, Freedom this and Freedom that. "GREATEST NATION ON EARTH" is something you might expect in China, but its a common statement in the USA.

It sounds totally bizarre, but the USA to this day has something of a chip on its shoulder. Britain being the place that started it all is the opposite, and folk here regularly say how terrible they are at everything, complain incessently, lack drive, and say "back in the good old days" and "my grandad said..."

America is a nation with a winners, Britain is a nation of whiners. These might be hard things for people of both countries to hear, but trust me on this...

As I said a few threads back.. and my American missus says regularly. Somewhere in the middle of where Britain and America currently stand, would result in the best place to be, not so jingoistic and desperate to be top cat all the time, not so dour, filled with pessimism, and a contentment with always being the underdog.

I think its specifically that they can't understand why we don't agree with them that USA RULES! In the face of all the 'evidence' of how great it is, we still won't agree, and this frustrates them. Something like that, anyway.

ArbeitsSchu wrote:

mattyrm wrote:

ArbeitsSchu wrote:I've found that often Americans become quite upset simply because the British refuse to believe that their country is all that great. Its OK, I suppose. Passable even. Occasionally it can be quite interesting. But its not super-awesome-wintastic. For some reason that really twists their nipples?

I told you, I've lived in both, and I understand both extremely well. Britain loves a loser. Tim Henman would have been a bus boy if he was American!

It think its due to many things, partially because of the war and a lingering paranoia, also an enforced feeling of unity taken after the collapse of the USSR. I also once saw a programme about it that said Britian and America are inherently the way they are because the people that had that entrepreneurial spirit and get up and go and positive outlook buggerd off to the US in search of their fortune. The "Its never gonna work" crowd stayed home.

That's one reason why kids pledge at school.. my missus said she did it at school and they all stood and saluted the flag, I thought she was winding me up, and her state is liberal! Can you imagine us singing the national anthem in primary school? I cant blame them, and I cant even say if its a bad thing or not. Maybe if we were the colony and not the motherland I would feel the same way. In the US, a place I would happily live by the way, these are tiny flaws, but you really do get TV show hosts and radio DJs and commercials regularly (at least once a week I hear it) saying "greatest country on earth!" all the time. And Freedom everything.. Freedom fries, Freedom FM, Freedom this and Freedom that. "GREATEST NATION ON EARTH" is something you might expect in China, but its a common statement in the USA.

It sounds totally bizarre, but the USA to this day has something of a chip on its shoulder. Britain being the place that started it all is the opposite, and folk here regularly say how terrible they are at everything, complain incessently, lack drive, and say "back in the good old days" and "my grandad said..."

America is a nation with a winners, Britain is a nation of whiners. These might be hard things for people of both countries to hear, but trust me on this...

As I said a few threads back.. and my American missus says regularly. Somewhere in the middle of where Britain and America currently stand, would result in the best place to be, not so jingoistic and desperate to be top cat all the time, not so dour, filled with pessimism, and a contentment with always being the underdog.

I think its specifically that they can't understand why we don't agree with them that USA RULES! In the face of all the 'evidence' of how great it is, we still won't agree, and this frustrates them. Something like that, anyway.

You're presuming too much. That whole scheme requires caring, requires effort. Unless its about the benjamins Americans aren't goning to put that kid of effort into anything.

Frazzled wrote:

mattyrm wrote:
As I said a few threads back.. and my American missus says regularly. Somewhere in the middle of where Britain and America currently stand, would result in the best place to be, not so jingoistic and desperate to be top cat all the time, not so dour, filled with pessimism, and a contentment with always being the underdog.

Your use of facts, logic, and considered moderation have no place in this forum!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

hotsauceman1 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

hotsauceman1 wrote:The U.S doesnt have free speech. Look at the FCC. there existence violates the first amendment.
The Brits are doing the same thing. Just with hate crimes.

Thats so wrong its not funny. The FCC regulates radio frequencies only. You can't go to jail.

And TV. They regulate what you can put through the air waves. They impose fines, y'know punishment. Punishment for doing something that is guranteed by the first amendment.

See what happens when you don't have free speech? *
*outside of 3 minutes in the morning to check on traffic I haven't atched network TV in years.

Then, MAybe we shouldnt point fingers and look internally at america. As much as the right wing love to say this is a perfect country its not. It is still very much " Land of the FREEE, to do i want you to"

I would point out the poor kid (that the US president got involved) after being shot by some neighbourhood watchman in Self-Defence (Stand your ground law?) not even being arrested. As a neutral party, that Trayvonne deserves justice.

This wouldn't happen in the UK, if you killed someone even inself defence (even if an Armed Police Officer) you will be arrested pending investigation. The shooting of a man in London last year starting the riots is still being investigated and when this comes back unlawful killing the Police unit that did it will be in the dock defending themselves from a murder or manslaughter charge.

@Mattrym, there is a few good things that come out of being whingers/ negative, we are dour pragmatists. We are cynical and not guillable, if someone says "I'm going to make a Million pounds" yeah whatever bell end. In the US it would be "If you want it, you can achieve it".

But you know what, we are cut from the same cloth, the older, smaller more serious Brother, and the younger, bigger brasher go getting brother. I can criticise my Brother and he can criticise me and we will smack each other around, but no one repeat no one f8ck's with my brother. Red White & Blue, Christian, English speaking democracy's with a shared heritage. Yeah that's probably the best summation of it.