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they just replied to me email basically saying "there was a coding issue, we can't send you these models".

Not even offering a refund now.

Chaos chump wrote:
Still no refund a week after cancelling, their response on email:

Refunds can take a little longer than the period we stated - please see this link: http://www.ehow.com/info_8511456_do-credit-cards-long-refund.html

Brilliant copy and paste reply pointing to an ehow article. Great stuff.

Everyone should be incredibly concerned that this has apparently become a standard line with them. (I got the exact same email in August).
As I was saying, I ended up simply NOT getting the money back from them after that and had to go through my credit card company.

So...I've finally got my money back.

Hey guys. I finally got (most) of my 240 pound order today:



The only thing missing was a box of Knights of Minas Tirith and Abaddon Black paint.

The Abaddon Black paint was marked with an asterisk on the bill and said "To Follow", while the Knights wasnt marked.

So I sent them an e-mail saying they should include the Knights in the next order along with the paint, lets see what happens.


So while I'm not 100% happy since I havent got all my stuff yet, 90% of it has arrived, therefore I dont think they are scamming people by only sending a tiny fraction of their order like maelstrom used to do in the months before it went bust. I got most of my money's worth here already, and I placed the order on the 2nd of September, so while others might have lost their patience earlier and called them for a refund, I waited patiently and it took just over 1 month (my self-imposed waiting limit was 3 months..I wanted to wait it out and see whether they are a bunch of frauds or simply very, very, slow, and I'm fairly certain at this point that it turns out to be the latter)

 Sir Arun wrote:
Hey guys. I finally got (most) of my 240 pound order today:



I waited patiently and it took just over 1 month (my self-imposed waiting limit was 3 months..)

But should a customer truly have to wait a month for this? To not even have a full order?

As stated in another thread, i am in the process of setting up an online shop, and absolute worst case, i can order it to be with me 7 working days after you order it (assuming its out of stock, and you order it 20 mins after my order is processed by GW) Dispatch the next day on a 5 day service (as i see your in Austria) - 3 days for UK. Thats 2-2 1/2 weeks.


Am asking, because like in my other thread, want honest feedback and to understand peoples expectations more.

K3 wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Hey guys. I finally got (most) of my 240 pound order today:



I waited patiently and it took just over 1 month (my self-imposed waiting limit was 3 months..)

But should a customer truly have to wait a month for this? To not even have a full order?

As stated in another thread, i am in the process of setting up an online shop, and absolute worst case, i can order it to be with me 7 working days after you order it (assuming its out of stock, and you order it 20 mins after my order is processed by GW) Dispatch the next day on a 5 day service (as i see your in Austria) - 3 days for UK. Thats 2-2 1/2 weeks.


Am asking, because like in my other thread, want honest feedback and to understand peoples expectations more.

Ultimately, it is up to the individual customer whether that is quick enough or not, different people will have different ideas.

What is unforgivable is TWG's lack of responsiveness to customers who decide that, no, this isn't quick enough, and their apparently Victorian method of issuing refunds.

I think you'd be surprised how many people would tolerate a month, as long as communication was good and they still felt like you cared. By no means would I advocate month long delivery times as a habit though,

Well see the thing is, if I as a customer am already informed prior to purchase that I can either:

- order from shop A for 15% off and the goods will be at my place within 10 days

- order from shop B for 20% off and the goods will be at my place within 20 days

- order from shop C for 25%-30% off and the goods will take anywhere between 30 to 90 days (in the worst case scenario) to deliver

...then at least I can rest assured that this is the delivery period I have to expect.

Youre right that the main gripe with TW is their lazy communication and habit of leaving customers in the dark - and therefore in uncertainty - and whenever you are left in uncertainty, especially after having heard the maelstrom case, your gut feeling will keep urging you to cancel your order and ask for a refund every day.

But on the other hand I dont think TW can put up a notice on their website saying "orders from GW will take at least 20 days to process" because that might get them into trouble with GW who, after all, dictate trading/supplying terms to indie stores diosregarding all EU laws and wouldnt want anyone to be tarnishing their name in any way.

So TW can either tell us up front via e-mail (but at that point we have already placed the order) or continue with their copy-paste excuses but eventually show up with the items.

Except when they don't. Then fail to issue refunds and point you to ehow in an attempt to cover their rear end.

update:

When I placed my order on the 2nd of september, they were running a 25% discount.

After waiting 4 weeks I went to their website and they were running a 30% discount.

Obviously pissed, I wrote them an e-mail venting my frustration and told them I felt a little cheated, as I could have ordered at that point and saved 16 pounds since my order was large.

They replied back to me that the 5% would be credited back to my card.

I saw my bank statement today and indeed, 16.something GBP had been credited to my card, so there's that.

Still no refund here, or reply to my last email to them pointing out that part of the ehow link is not relevant as I ordered on debit card and not credit card..

Never use a debit card on the Internet - rule #1 of Internet purchasing.

Call you bank and get them to recover your money. If TWG go pop you loose your money!

 notprop wrote:
Never use a debit card on the Internet - rule #1 of Internet purchasing.

Call you bank and get them to recover your money. If TWG go pop you loose your money!

Indeed, thats my stupidity.

Still doesnt make TWG suck any less.

I'm convinced that their slow turnaround times is due to GW being deliberately slow in sending on stock to TW due to GW enforcing the (legal it seems) terms of the trade agreement due to the high discount TW offers. TW know this, this isn't a new development as they have been like this for a long time now. My LFGS can turn around an on demand order even for direct only items the same week, TW clearly can not match this.

What TW should do is either stop selling GW stuff or buy in stock rather than ordering on demand, anything they haven't got in stock should be clearly marked with a huge lead time. I think most people would be happy buying from TW if they at least admitted the long lead times upfront so you could make an educated decision if you wanted to purchase from them and had good communication about the status of your orders.

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

sounds easy doesnt it, Im not sticking up for them but when you deal with GW on a regular basis, you will understand I think, they are a pain to deal with as they know that you can not just go somewhere else.

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

Their behaviour is typical of a company that is struggling with cash flow, believe me, the hardest thing about running a small business isn't so much making money, it's ensuring you have enough money, where it is supposed to be, when it is supposed to be there. I can have an order worth a million pounds in my hands, but that's no good if I need to pay a 200 pound electricity bill by tomorrow to avoid disconnection and nothing in the bank.

 azreal13 wrote:

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

Their behaviour is typical of a company that is struggling with cash flow, believe me, the hardest thing about running a small business isn't so much making money, it's ensuring you have enough money, where it is supposed to be, when it is supposed to be there. I can have an order worth a million pounds in my hands, but that's no good if I need to pay a 200 pound electricity bill by tomorrow to avoid disconnection and nothing in the bank.

And the simple solution to cash flow (In the eyes of TW) seems to be steal (or borrow at 0pct interest by taking orders you know you'll never fulfill and taking an age to refund them) to pay your costs.

 azreal13 wrote:

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

Their behaviour is typical of a company that is struggling with cash flow, believe me, the hardest thing about running a small business isn't so much making money, it's ensuring you have enough money, where it is supposed to be, when it is supposed to be there. I can have an order worth a million pounds in my hands, but that's no good if I need to pay a 200 pound electricity bill by tomorrow to avoid disconnection and nothing in the bank.

Yup, having stock is expensive as it ties up cash that you can't use for anything else. Before the trade terms changed you could expect a reasonable turnaround from GW for your orders so just in time ordering worked, but then GW moved the goal posts and only friendly stores (those who stick to the agreement) get the quick turnaround and all of the stuff they ordered. Pre orders can be particularly bad if you are on the outs with GW as they will deliberately hold back your pre orders.

So as I had mentioned before I'm still waiting for Abaddon Black and a box of Knights of minas Tirith from my original order. Here's the TW e-mail I received today:

Hello Arun

Sorry about the knights - they were a mis-pack - We shipped 500 orders in one and half days.

We will get them shipped next week when the Abaddon black comes back in.

Paul
TW

Looky Likey wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

Their behaviour is typical of a company that is struggling with cash flow, believe me, the hardest thing about running a small business isn't so much making money, it's ensuring you have enough money, where it is supposed to be, when it is supposed to be there. I can have an order worth a million pounds in my hands, but that's no good if I need to pay a 200 pound electricity bill by tomorrow to avoid disconnection and nothing in the bank.

Yup, having stock is expensive as it ties up cash that you can't use for anything else. Before the trade terms changed you could expect a reasonable turnaround from GW for your orders so just in time ordering worked, but then GW moved the goal posts and only friendly stores (those who stick to the agreement) get the quick turnaround and all of the stuff they ordered. Pre orders can be particularly bad if you are on the outs with GW as they will deliberately hold back your pre orders.

I've done it myself, I had just had to cover a large invoice, and I had other bills to pay, including my own salary, but not enough in the bank.

A customer came in and placed a substantial order for an item I didn't have in stock. I took up front payment (something I wasn't in the habit of to avoid what is happening with TWG) and because I had 60 day terms on my trade account, this helped smooth out the bump and allowed me to cover my expenses.

Now, if that item hadn't turned up in a timely manner from my supplier, I'd have been in all sorts of problems (many of which would have echoed what has been talked about here.)

So I understand, even sympathise, with that aspect, but as I've said before, what I will not excuse, and what I wouldn't do myself, is the poor communication. That is what prevents me from using them again, and unless they really appear to turn a corner will continue to do so.

Hell, if anyone from TWG is reading this, I'm limited to how much I can work due to ill health, but if you want to pay me to do a few hours a week damage control, I'm a former company director with substantial management experience in retail sales (specifically mobile phones, so I'm used to annoyed customers!) Drop me a PM!

 Rayvon wrote:

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

sounds easy doesnt it, Im not sticking up for them but when you deal with GW on a regular basis, you will understand I think, they are a pain to deal with as they know that you can not just go somewhere else.

Having worked with GW on this basis, there is still no real excuse (except on pre-orders).

If you expect GW to take 4 weeks to process orders, then you want to hold 5 weeks worth of stock. Stuff like heldrakes, centurions, leman russ etc, will sell.

So what if your sat holding £80,000 in stock? Only real time you want to cut back if when a new product is out soon, and you take the risk on that.

Would you be better off P***ing off all your customers, losing custom, or reducing the old space marine codex to make a minor loss?

K3 wrote:

 Rayvon wrote:

K3 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:

What TW should do is *** buy in stock rather than ordering on demand

This is a simple solution - does anyone know why they arent doing it?

If they are continually selling £20,000 of GW a week, then hold 90% of the range, and order to replenish.

sounds easy doesnt it, Im not sticking up for them but when you deal with GW on a regular basis, you will understand I think, they are a pain to deal with as they know that you can not just go somewhere else.

Having worked with GW on this basis, there is still no real excuse (except on pre-orders).

If you expect GW to take 4 weeks to process orders, then you want to hold 5 weeks worth of stock. Stuff like heldrakes, centurions, leman russ etc, will sell.

So what if your sat holding £80,000 in stock? Only real time you want to cut back if when a new product is out soon, and you take the risk on that.

Would you be better off P***ing off all your customers, losing custom, or reducing the old space marine codex to make a minor loss?

I didnt just mean soley because of GW, but anyway good luck in your endevours, I hope you can make it work out as well as you say you can, in these horrible economic times especially.

 Rayvon wrote:

I didnt just mean soley because of GW, but anyway good luck in your endevours, I hope you can make it work out as well as you say you can, in these horrible economic times especially.

Thankyou, i hope so too.

In the final stages of preparation, so will know soon.

Eventually got my money back.

They still suck, but didn't steal my money.

Received a number of orders over the last 6 months including a pre ordered riptide a couple of days after release, however these were all mantic,dzc and not gw.
Only issues I encountered were with warmahordes stuff as about half a £120 order failed to arrive and after a number of months and emails they admitted to issues with supplies and made a prompt refund.

I've used them once- didn't seem too bad. Fairly swift delivery. Wayland are better though mind.

Ordered a Dark Angles Battleforce over two weeks ago (21st October iirc) and this has yet to had any change in status other than payment being processed.

Sent an email two days ago requesting an ETA on dispatch which has not been replied to. Will try calling them now.

EDIT: Just rung, straight through to a recorded message saying only handling queries through email...which obviously they aren't responding to.

I'd phone your credit card company and get the cash back personally.

Sorry guys I forgot to update this (see my posts on page 6 and this page)

The final part of my order arrived on Friday two weeks ago (damn, how time passes....I thought it was last Friday lol) It contained the Abaddon Black paint so I could finally resume my painting which is why I was busy painting the past 2 weeks lol and couldnt update this thread.



Anyway, suffice to say that with Total Wargamer your orders are SAFE and will arrive .....eventually. If you are ok with waiting 1.5 months to 2 months, then the 30% discount is well worth it. So dont worry, these guys will not run away with your money, it's just that they take 3-4 days to reply to an e-mail and 2 weeks to refund your money if you lose patience and ask for moneyback.

Total Wargamer orders stock only after you place your order, so first GW has to ship it to them, and then only do they ship it to you. Further complicating this fact is that they place bulk orders with GW, so just because you placed your order on their website yesterday doesnt mean they will place the order with GW tomorrow. Rather, you might be person 4 of the 10 people's worth of orders needed before they order the next batch/ bulk order from GW.

 Sir Arun wrote:
So as I had mentioned before I'm still waiting for Abaddon Black and a box of Knights of minas Tirith from my original order. Here's the TW e-mail I received today:

Hello Arun

Sorry about the knights - they were a mis-pack - We shipped 500 orders in one and half days.

We will get them shipped next week when the Abaddon black comes back in.

Paul
TW

While i'm glad they are taking care of you...


... Anyone else's BS'ometer go off while reading this from TW ? Cuz mine redlined. I think i'll be avoiding these guys after reading this thread.