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 Manchu wrote:

 whembly wrote:
it's actually about 15% of inpatient hospitals are operated by Catholic diocese...

Most Catholic healthcare is not operated by the diocese but rather by the orders.

Yeah, that's what I mean...
Still can't figure out whats-what in the Catholic organizations...

I thought this was interesting;

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/09/what-bill-clinton-said-vs-what-he-wrote/56562/


If that's accurate, he did ad lib quite a bit.

 Manchu wrote:
It's difficult to express how affirming and moving Sister Simone Campbell's speech was last night. I know that this little gem will go largely unnoticed by many Democrats and will be scorned many Republicans (I've read the news today, after all) but what Sister Simone is talking about is authentic.

Thank you! I am embarassed that I forgot to mention her. She was wonderful and inspiring.

Relapse wrote:
She says that she agrees with with her Bishops, but this article and others I've read in the news says otherwvise. Other articles I've read say she takes issue with the Pope. Are these articles just hyperbole then? There's a lot I don't understand about the workings within Catholic religious orders and I would like to know from an insider whose opinion I respect what goes on here. The standing ovation she got was a huge contrast to the boos and disruption I saw with the alteration of the Democratic platform to include mention of God.

http://www.ncregister.com/daily-news/nuns-on-the-bus-media-stunt-detracts-from-bishops-fortnight-for-freedom/

The boos and disruption were over a last-minute platform change seemingly made in kneejerk response to a stupid Republican criticism. Obviously most of the audience has respect for principled people of faith (at least ones whom they share some common ground with), as was shown in their response to Sister Simone.

 azazel the cat wrote:
I'm unaware of how many Catholic-owned hospitalsare in the US, but I know what with the removal of Catholic schools and colleges, the US can actually make some progress towards being the world-leader in sciences again.

Yeah, no, that was a terrible comment.

Catholic organizations run a huge number of good, high-quality healthcare organizations and hospitals in this country, and a lot of highly-respected and rigorous educational institutions. My little sister went to a Catholic school for primary education as it was the best option around us, and the sisters were respectful of our family's religion.

There ARE religious schools in the US which make a mockery of good education (Liberty University, anyone?), but taking aim at the Catholic schools is way off target.

I like how the usual narrative turns this:

1) Democrats decide not to include a mention of God into their platform.
2) DNC delegates take a vote and approve.
3) Republicans have a field day with that decision
4) DNC leadership decides that they should include God anyway
5) DNC has a vote requiring 2/3 majority
6) No clear majority was obtained.
7) Vote again, and no majority, repeat.
8) DNC leadership decides to ignore the actual results and pretend that the vote passes.
9) DNC delegates boo the leaderships decision to ignore the result of the votes and to ignore the candidates.

And turns it into this:

That was funny...

I still can't believe that happened.

His point is that's not what happened. The distorted version is that they were angry about a mention of god. The actual version is that they were angry about being railroaded.

When did Kerry get that much spirit?

"Romney got his foreign policy views on Russia from Rocky IV"

I'll admit, even though it was canned, I laughed.

/Because whatever Putin hits he destroys

Jihadin wrote:Az there are quite a few religion spnsored hospital. Two chains I know of around Seatle off the top of my head. Four chains around DC...actually what we call DelMarVa

Ah. Thanks for the clean answer. As I said, I was unaware of how commonplace Catholic-sponsored hospitals are in the US.

Frazzled wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

whembly wrote:This nuke button is to stop offering those services and shut down their operations (that is, no more schools, colleges, hospitals).

What you call a "nuke button", I call the best possible outcome. I'm unaware of how many Catholic-owned hospitalsare in the US, but I know what with the removal of Catholic schools and colleges, the US can actually make some progress towards being the world-leader in sciences again.

Wow just wow. This is the most bigoted, not to mention short sighted statement I've seen in at least three minutes.

Yeah, sorry, but I just can't hide it. I guess I'm just not a fan of institutions that promulgate beliefs in magic teaching science, and have an aversion to the cognitive dissonance required to reconcile the two.

Manchu wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
but I know what with the removal of Catholic schools and colleges, the US can actually make some progress towards being the world-leader in sciences again.

That is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen posted in the OT forum. Achievement Unlocked.

So you don't think there's a correlation between the US taking such a hit in science education rankings and the persistence in the belief in the US that angels are real? Please, enlighten me as to how one of the dumbest things you've ever seen posted is the suggestion that a fact-based scientific education will flourish in the absence of an institution that indoctrinates children with a belief in magic.

You seem to have a misconception about how Catholic schools and Universities in the United States teach.

There are religious-based institutions which let their religion get in the way of the teaching, but it's not generally common among Catholic institutions. Historically they do have classes on religious topics, but they don't let them obstruct the other academic subjects.

Georgetown, as an example, is a top 20 law school.

Fair enough. I may be using more hyperbole than is warranted.

They run a lot of good hospitals, too. One of the three major hospitals in my city is Catholic, and it's the leading cardiac care center in the area.

Wasn't sure if the "disgruntledness" was from adding in "God" or "Jerusaluem being the capital of Isreal" or both. If you look at the pictures at the moment when it happen they were showing Arab americans. Well the perception of it is focus on them. Not pointing them out.

Clearly the camera crews are going to look there for some drama.

But that Jerusalem thing is some serious bs. The DNC must be seriously trying to win back some goodwill from the hardcore pro-Israel lobby in the US.

 Jihadin wrote:
Wasn't sure if the "disgruntledness" was from adding in "God" or "Jerusaluem being the capital of Isreal" or both. If you look at the pictures at the moment when it happen they were showing Arab americans. Well the perception of it is focus on them. Not pointing them out.

I am fairly sure that the "disgruntledness" was from this this:

"I know you all already voted on this yesterday, but let's vote on reversing what you all decided on yesterday, everybody in favor?"
"No"
"Well then, sounds like everybody agrees with us, good job everybody, nothing to see here, carry on."

But please keep on repeating the same talking points that every conservative news outlet wants you to repeat, that everytime God is mentioned at the DNC people go "booooooooooo".

Alright D-USA. Your best guess on the "Boo" was for which? God? Jerusalem? or both? Notice I have not singled out "God" for the booing.

He wrote his opinion on what they were booing over clearly, Jihadin. Read it again.

Woops my bad D thanks Manny for the correction

I’m sitting here listening to Biden: “One thing I knew of Barack is the enormity of his heart”.

Did I hear that right?

From Webster: “Definition of ENORMITY. 1. : an outrageous, improper, vicious, or immoral act “

??

Also, my brother sent me this... this is one of the possible swags you can get at the DNC:

Do they not care?

 whembly wrote:
I’m sitting here listening to Biden: “One thing I knew of Barack is the enormity of his heart”.

Did I hear that right?

From Webster: “Definition of ENORMITY. 1. : an outrageous, improper, vicious, or immoral act “

??

You have to be seriously reaching to assume that's what definition "enormity" is being used to describe.

3.
greatness of size, scope, extent, or influence; immensity: The enormity of such an act of generosity is staggering.

 English Assassin wrote:
Have American Catholics not noticed that in every other first world nation, the Catholic church and Catholic-affiliated institutions all pay taxes which go to fund state healthcare which provides free or subsidised birth control?

Actually, the UK, Australia and most other developed nations grant an exemption from tax for religious institutions. The specifics vary from nation to nation, but the rule is pretty common.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

TheHammer wrote:
Yeah, I would be more sympathetic to Catholics and birth control if we ever heard the Catholic Bishops talk half as much about war, poverty, and other such evils.

To be fair, religious bodies issue these kinds of statements pretty frequently. They get ignored by both sides of politics as they suit neither narrative, and therefore get ignored by the media at large.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:
That part is not true sebster...

There's a conscience exemption you can ask for that has to be approved by HHS... but, it's so rigorous the Catholics were denied.

Not quite. The Catholic Church as a whole was not granted a broad exemption. This means that organisations under the Catholic Church, mostly hospitals, will not be exempted, though specifically religious bodies such as local diocese would be.

And then there's the simple fact that even in non-religious organisations run by churches such as those hospitals... there is an exemption that the Church doesn't have to pay for the coverage.

At which point I'm really left wondering what they're protesting.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 whembly wrote:
I’m sitting here listening to Biden: “One thing I knew of Barack is the enormity of his heart”.

Did I hear that right?

From Webster: “Definition of ENORMITY. 1. : an outrageous, improper, vicious, or immoral act “

??

You have to be seriously reaching to assume that's what definition "enormity" is being used to describe.

3.
greatness of size, scope, extent, or influence; immensity: The enormity of such an act of generosity is staggering.

Right... I know that... just an odd choice of word that's all. But everyone loves Biden... he's cool.

Just like he forgot when Michelle gave the speech... funny dude.

 whembly wrote:
But, you have to understand, the Catholics are backed in a corner here.

Except state laws in most states in the union have required at least as much as the ACA requires, and Catholic organisations have been quietly complying with those laws for years.

But now that hospitals under Catholic organisations are required by Federal law to provide contraception, but not actually have to pay for it, well now they're upset? "It is a great infringement on my religious organisation that a non-Catholic employed in a non-religious business we own will have contraception covered that my employee will not be paying for."

I mean, really?

 whembly wrote:
I’m sitting here listening to Biden: “One thing I knew of Barack is the enormity of his heart”.

Did I hear that right?

From Webster: “Definition of ENORMITY. 1. : an outrageous, improper, vicious, or immoral act “

??

Also, my brother sent me this... this is one of the possible swags you can get at the DNC:

Do they not care?

Seriously?

Oh hey guys, he said enormity. According to the dictionary it means (hmm, can't use #3....can't use #4...let me just one one of the definitions to make my point!"

3: the quality or state of being huge : immensity <the inconceivable enormity of the universe>
4: a quality of momentous importance or impact <the enormity of the decision>

Just thought it was an odd choice of the word ya know.

 Frazzled wrote:
No conservative I know cares.

Odds are you don't know the right conservatives. I hope his Mormonism much of an issue, and I really hope the Democrats don't play on the issue, but I'd be a fool to pretend that evangelical voters see Romney in the same they'd see one of their own.

 sebster wrote:

 whembly wrote:
But, you have to understand, the Catholics are backed in a corner here.

Except state laws in most states in the union have required at least as much as the ACA requires, and Catholic organisations have been quietly complying with those laws for years.

But now that hospitals under Catholic organisations are required by Federal law to provide contraception, but not actually have to pay for it, well now they're upset? "It is a great infringement on my religious organisation that a non-Catholic employed in a non-religious business we own will have contraception covered that my employee will not be paying for."

I mean, really?

No seb, you're wrong. I personally know that these catholic instituions do NOT cover them.

Usually, my ex would say she works for the Diocese and her OB doc would just hand her crap ton of samples.

The odd thing about this is that the Catholic organizations are in favor of ACA (essentially more support for healthcare)... but this, I know they won't stand for...

 Mannahnin wrote:
You seem to have a misconception about how Catholic schools and Universities in the United States teach.

There are religious-based institutions which let their religion get in the way of the teaching, but it's not generally common among Catholic institutions. Historically they do have classes on religious topics, but they don't let them obstruct the other academic subjects.

Georgetown, as an example, is a top 20 law school.

Absolutely. Catholic teaching bodies have a long and proud intellectual tradition. It is an all too common assumption that all religious teaching must be that 'no evolution' nonsense.

 sebster wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
No conservative I know cares.

Odds are you don't know the right conservatives. I hope his Mormonism much of an issue, and I really hope the Democrats don't play on the issue, but I'd be a fool to pretend that evangelical voters see Romney in the same they'd see one of their own.

The Evangelicals that I know don't really care about Mormonism... sure, there's bigots... but, there everywhere in all walks of life.

After that gak you spewed in the thread from your brother, why do you expect people to engage you in polite discussion right now?

Think that be a major mistake if the attacks ads start hammering Romney about being a Mormon.