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MakesKidsKill wrote:

What would you use to judge what sort of people play unpainted armies, if not your experience? The massive peer reviewed databases full,of data?

Uh, yeah.

Peer reviewed databases full of data would be a lot better. Experience is not representative of anything but said experience.

How is that not obvious?

MakesKidsKill wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:

MakesKidsKill wrote:
It's my experience that the people with unpainted armies are WAAC Tryhards with more money than talent, who go out and purchase whatever the current OP Netlist happens to be.

I love anectodal evidence. To use one I used in another thread - I never see anyone buying or playing Flames of War at my FLGS. No one in the entire world plays Flames of War.

Your experience is just that - your experience. Trying to pass it off as accurate in the larger community in any way makes you look stupid.

Dude, what's wrong with stating my experience? Literally, ones experiences are the only thing a person can truly trust. I've been playing GW games for 25 years, I believe my experience is hugely accurate about the community.

What would you use to judge what sort of people play unpainted armies, if not your experience? The massive peer reviewed databases full,of data?

How about don't pass judgement on randoms who you've never met from communities different to yours?

pre-emptive edit: lol at the idea of not judging, this is the internet, what am I thinking

and this is still going nowhere, to echo solofalcon's post earlier...

Edited by Manchu.

Edited by Manchu.

A persons experience is literally all we have to go on

Something being the only available source does not make it a good source.

It's still the best available.

Lock time, now?

 TheCaptain wrote:
Edited by Manchu.

A persons experience is literally all we have to go on

Something being the only available source does not make it a good source.

It literally makes it the only source.

MakesKidsKill wrote:

 TheCaptain wrote:
Edited by Manchu.

A persons experience is literally all we have to go on

Something being the only available source does not make it a good source.

It literally makes it the only source.

False. Other people's experiences are another source.

Experiences are still horrible sources in reference to a larger populace than that affected by your experience.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/90/484235.page#5042921

The last comment is for the OP...

 Kaldor wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
This is pretty much the best post. To expand on it - not everyone has the same amount of free time, and not everyone prioritises things the same way. That doesn't make their priorities wrong, it just makes their priorities different to other people, because people are individuals with different priorities.

While their priorities aren't wrong, they are at odds with the hobby. It involves painting. Why start the hobby, if you don't like painting? It'd be like joining a soccer team if you didn't like soccer.

Whose hobby, your hobby? If someone decides to not play at all, but instead builds diaramas for entry into Golden Daemon, are they to be disrespected for not playing the game as much as people get disrespected for playing the game but not painting their models? They're ignoring a facet of the hobby. They've got just as much impact on the hobby as someone playing with an unpainted army for you - absolutely none, because just like you'll never get to play the person only making diaramas, you don't have to play those people with unpainted armies.

This whole thread is basically people telling other people that they have to do what they want them to do. Some people don't want to or can't paint their models for various reasons. There's no rule in any rulebook saying that armies have to be painted. Thus, stop pushing your idea of the hobby on other individuals. If their enjoyment of the hobby conflicts with yours, simply do not play them.

Anything to get models painted is a good idea. If you don't like painting your models whats the point of having them.

I think it comes down to a different strokes for different folks thing. Some people think its a must to paint your army to play the game, others do not. How you treat your mini's is an individual thing.

It also depends on how you view it. To me its a game with miniatures. Just a game, not a hobby. A hobby for me would be building them, painting them and making dioramas. Or in my case, collecting toys and making photo comics.
If it was say model aeroplanes then like 99.9% of people will build and paint, its just a norm for building models. It "completes" the overall effect personally for that person.

I personally don't find painting my minis a must. I care about playing the game, I want to play the game, playing it makes me happy. Getting frustrated on substandard paint jobs or how its not working out how I want it to makes me depressed. So for me, I just want to play the game. I admire people who have great paint jobs, I imagine how my things could look as great if I had their skill but I don't.
My brother paints his things, he has a lot of study to do for his course, plus the house maintenance, looking after the kids etc. But he finds the time to paint his mini's because he makes it a shared activity with his eldest child as well as being a way he unwinds. Where as I unwind via music and playing board/video games, even if I have to play by myself. The times where I do artistic work is when I am in my deepest depression but my art is writing poems.

But the different strokes for different folks thing, I think is what is most important to remember with all the anger and hurtful remarks being made here. Some people like Picasso and Basquiat, others Dali or Da Vinci.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that finds themselves glued to members of the Imperium or staring at a recently built mini and thinking... You look like you fell off the ugly tree... I have Catachans that look like drugged zombies... Or Mutants...

 -Loki- wrote:
Some people don't want to or can't paint their models for various reasons.

Ok. So why choose a hobby that involves painting models?

 Kaldor wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Some people don't want to or can't paint their models for various reasons.

Ok. So why choose a hobby that involves painting models?

For the same reason that some people pick up the hobby but don't play games.

 Kaldor wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Some people don't want to or can't paint their models for various reasons.

Ok. So why choose a hobby that involves painting models?

but it doesnt . no where in the game rules does it say your models have to be painted. there are sections about rules , LoS[so models have to be there in physical form to use them] , about rolling [when , what and where] . no where in the rules does it say and to play a 2k pts IG army you need to have it painted with at least X colors .

people pick up the hobby to play a game , if there are those who want to paint and even are good at it , awesome for those people . But why should those decide what the game is about , when the rules clearly dont mention painting .

Makumba wrote:
but it doesnt . no where in the game rules does it say your models have to be painted. there are sections about rules , LoS[so models have to be there in physical form to use them] , about rolling [when , what and where] . no where in the rules does it say and to play a 2k pts IG army you need to have it painted with at least X colors .

So what? Nobody is arguing that the rules of the game require painting, they're arguing in favor of a house rule that requires it (or at least punishes unpainted models to some degree). Pointing out that it's a house rule isn't really a relevant criticism.

yes, a house rule for supposedly friendly play...

 Kaldor wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Some people don't want to or can't paint their models for various reasons.

Ok. So why choose a hobby that involves painting models?

Why do people get into the hobby just to make dioramas? Why do people only paint individual models? Both of these people are ignoring the gaming aspect. If you struck up a conversation at a store with them, would you talk down to them for not playing the game? That's as big a part of the wargaming hobby as painting.

It's not up to you to tell someone else that they're not allowed to enjoy their hobby the way they want to, or penalise them for not enjoying the hobby the way you do.

Thank you, Loki.

/thread

 -Loki- wrote:
Why do people get into the hobby just to make dioramas? Why do people only paint individual models? Both of these people are ignoring the gaming aspect. If you struck up a conversation at a store with them, would you talk down to them for not playing the game? That's as big a part of the wargaming hobby as painting.

It's not up to you to tell someone else that they're not allowed to enjoy their hobby the way they want to, or penalise them for not enjoying the hobby the way you do.

The difference is that the person who only paints doesn't involve anyone else in their choices, while the person who refuses to paint changes their opponent's experience of the game as well as their own. Sure, you can choose not to play them, but that's exactly what the proposed rule does: it excludes or punishes people who the OP doesn't want to spend their hobby time with.

Threads like these are proof that there will never be peace on our planet as there will never be complete consensus and some always want to push their opinions onto others or refuse any opinion other than their own.

This hobby is what you make of it. For some it's only the gaming, for others it's only modeling, though many combine them. NONE of them are wrong nor right.
Painting the figures is an option, nothing more.

Also no one should be allowed to dictate how people spend their free time.

 Peregrine wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Why do people get into the hobby just to make dioramas? Why do people only paint individual models? Both of these people are ignoring the gaming aspect. If you struck up a conversation at a store with them, would you talk down to them for not playing the game? That's as big a part of the wargaming hobby as painting.

It's not up to you to tell someone else that they're not allowed to enjoy their hobby the way they want to, or penalise them for not enjoying the hobby the way you do.

The difference is that the person who only paints doesn't involve anyone else in their choices, while the person who refuses to paint changes their opponent's experience of the game as well as their own. Sure, you can choose not to play them, but that's exactly what the proposed rule does: it excludes or punishes people who the OP doesn't want to spend their hobby time with.

Then just don't spend your hobby time with them..

Oh, look, problem solved. No need to insult someone for no reason other than to be a smug elitist.

I thaght to ask. For the people for this rule in a club or shop, how would you enforce it? And how would you deal with someone that motivated or not cannot meet your deadline?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Lock time, now?

In before. Threads about painted minis vs unpainted minis always end the same.

- I prefer painted models.
- You have no girlfriend, you have no social life, you are a moron.

 angel of ecstasy wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
Lock time, now?

In before. Threads about painted minis vs unpainted minis always end the same.

- I prefer painted models.
- You have no girlfriend, you have no social life, you are a moron.

And that's pretty much how it went.