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....your local club or gaming group automatically awarding lists Preferred Enemy when playing against unpainted or unfinished armies?

Disregarding how likely or unlikely that is to happen, I'm interested to know how well such a rule would go down.

For. Paint your models.

However, I would make it per-unit, not for the entire army. Every 100% painted unit gets preferred enemy against any unit that contains at least one unpainted model. That way you punish people for taking unpainted models, but don't impose too harsh a price on people who include a small number of models they haven't finished yet in a mostly-painted army.

I would be against this.

It's easy enough to say "paint your models," but you have to keep in mind that not everyone has the time to paint everything. I'm a slow painter, and these days I barely have enough time for a personal life, let alone painting models.

And then there are those that just really don't enjoy painting. Not their fault either, they just want to enjoy a game (how someone could possibly enjoy 6th edition 40k is beyond me, but that's not my prerogative).

Sounds like crap. Plain and simple; some people aren't in this for the painting aspect.

Why make games significantly more frustrating for them?

Sure, its just preferred enemy, but next game you play, give your opponent preferred enemy against you; see that it's a little nuisance that can be a big annoyance.

Terrible idea.

Some people simply don't care to paint. Unless you're a TO, making people have painted armies or suffer penalties just to play a casual game makes you an arse.

 Necroshea wrote:
Some people simply don't care to paint. Unless you're a TO, making people have painted armies or suffer penalties just to play a casual game makes you an arse.

Spray base color, put some silver on the gun, wash/dip. You don't have to be an awesome painter, but refusing to make even the most minimal effort to paint your models is just being lazy. And really, also disrespectful to your opponents who probably prefer to play games where everything is painted.

 Fafnir wrote:
It's easy enough to say "paint your models," but you have to keep in mind that not everyone has the time to paint everything. I'm a slow painter, and these days I barely have enough time for a personal life, let alone painting models.

So play smaller games. I don't have as much of a problem with someone who just got new models (for example, I wouldn't inflict this penalty on a newbie playing their first game) and hasn't had a chance to paint them yet, but let's be honest here. There are a lot of people who just never bother to paint anything no matter how much time they have available, and leave stuff unpainted for months/years at a time.

I voted on the fence.

Everything I field is unpainted, unless it's literally brand new, and I like facing off against painted armies, though I'm aware that this isn't going to happen as often as I like. Not everyone has the time, patience, or skill to paint all of their armies- painting is a creative outlet for me, and relaxing, but for some people it's a chore, so I don't expect other people's armies to be painted- though it's a nice perk if they are. This idea, would pretty much ensure that new players couldn't get involved in the group, since their combination of inexperience and rules disadvantage would be crippling. I think it's just a lot easier for a TO to say, regarding certain events, 'all models must be painted to a clear standard (3 colors and a wash or whatever)' and leave it at that. Announce it early, so nobody's surprised, make your expectations clears (three colors and a wash, or three colors and basing, or whatever floats your boat), and see what happens.

I don't field any unpainted models when playing. That being said I play with my friends and some of them don't paint all their models and I would never hold it against them.

It is interesting how many people are seeing this as a penalty/punishment for unpainted armies rather than a reward for painted ones.

I'm for it. So some people just want to play a game, and don't want to paint? Well, this is perhaps not the best hobby they could have chosen then.

 Peregrine wrote:
Spray base color, put some silver on the gun, wash/dip. You don't have to be an awesome painter, but refusing to make even the most minimal effort to paint your models is just being lazy. And really, also disrespectful to your opponents who probably prefer to play games where everything is painted.

No, it's not lazy. There is no rule that says you need painted armies to play. Paint adds NOTHING to an army beyond visual flare. TO use it because they want the event to look as nice as possible, which is well within there rights. Even aside from that, the why isn't important. Their roof, they're the boss.

I didn't have to paint my army. I didn't have to stay up all night before a tourny putting finishing touches on my infantry. Does that mean I'm going to cry because my opponent fields a sea of grey? No. I'm not there to see his painted army, I'm there to play a game. Which as mentioned before a painted army has nothing to do with that.

The idea that how your army looks is in any way disrespectful to your opponent is...well it's a joke. You army is a representation of you and your skill. A bad army makes you look bad (if that at all).

Seriously you paint snobs need to get a grip.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Necroshea wrote:
Some people simply don't care to paint. Unless you're a TO, making people have painted armies or suffer penalties just to play a casual game makes you an arse.

Spray base color, put some silver on the gun, wash/dip. You don't have to be an awesome painter, but refusing to make even the most minimal effort to paint your models is just being lazy. And really, also disrespectful to your opponents who probably prefer to play games where everything is painted.

I'd rather not compromise the quality of my models just to please some TFG that demands everything be painted. I don't get many models painted because the ones I do paint take a long time to do, and I rarely have time to paint. It's just as disrespectful to expect me to do a gak job painting just to please someone else.

 Fafnir wrote:
It's easy enough to say "paint your models," but you have to keep in mind that not everyone has the time to paint everything. I'm a slow painter, and these days I barely have enough time for a personal life, let alone painting models.

So play smaller games. I don't have as much of a problem with someone who just got new models (for example, I wouldn't inflict this penalty on a newbie playing their first game) and hasn't had a chance to paint them yet, but let's be honest here. There are a lot of people who just never bother to paint anything no matter how much time they have available, and leave stuff unpainted for months/years at a time.

40k is not a game that likes small point levels. Some army loadouts won't even work at small levels. So you assume that I should compromise all the fun parts of my army and my game just because someone doesn't like the way an army looks?

If someone had a stick that far up their ass, I just wouldn't play them.

I have no time in my life for painting - it has taken me 1.5 years to paint 3000 points of tyranids - but they are done and done well. I absolutely hate to field unpainted models and very much prefer to play against painted armies. Voted 'for' and it's true that not painting is laziness. It's easy to do given enough time.

SBG wrote:
its easy to do given enough time.

So is memorizing every fact in existence. But some of us don't have time for either feats.

SBG wrote:
It's easy to do given enough time.

That's a luxury I'd love to have. I really would. I haven't had a chance to paint in months. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there in a similar boat.

Voted against. I like to play, I like to model, and I like to paint.

But if someone tried to pull this at a friendly match I'd walk. If someone tried to make it a club rule I'd find a new club.

Just play the damn game. Don't try to handicap people who like different things than you do. It's "stop liking what I don't like" and it really has no place in a cooperative game like this.

I would just say follow tournament rules, you need at least 3 colors on your model. this means you can simply paint 3 stripes on his food and its good.

 Backspacehacker wrote:
I would just say follow tournament rules, you need at least 3 colors on your model. this means you can simply paint 3 stripes on his food and its good.

Mini needs to be fully painted at least three colors. Not painted three colors.

 18th Krasnograd wrote:
Voted against. I like to play, I like to model, and I like to paint.

But if someone tried to pull this at a friendly match I'd walk. If someone tried to make it a club rule I'd find a new club.

Just play the damn game. Don't try to handicap people who like different things than you do. It's "stop liking what I don't like" and it really has no place in a cooperative game like this.

It could be seen as a handicap from a half empty mindset. On the flipside it could be viewed as a reward for appreciating every aspect of the hobby. i.e. if you have time to give to the hobby then you have time to paint.

 Glorioski wrote:
It could be seen as a handicap from a half empty mindset. On the flipside it could be viewed as a reward for appreciating every aspect of the hobby. i.e. if you have time to give to the hobby then you have time to paint.

Yes, a reward by giving a handicap to another player.

And if "your hobby" has such arbitrary ultimatums, I want no part of it. Just a TFG of another colour.

 Fafnir wrote:

 Glorioski wrote:
It could be seen as a handicap from a half empty mindset. On the flipside it could be viewed as a reward for appreciating every aspect of the hobby. i.e. if you have time to give to the hobby then you have time to paint.

Yes, a reward by giving a handicap to another player.

And if "your hobby" has such arbitrary ultimatums, I want no part of it. Just a TFG of another colour.

Do you consider GT 3 colour minimum rules to be arbitrary and their TOs to be TFGs in general?

well painted armies are a pleasure to fight against, and i will be honest that i don't like playing against tinboys from an aesthetic POV, but painting takes time, and painting well takes even more time. Even if you have a completely painted army, sometimes you will have just bought something, and only had time to assemble and basecoat it before your next game.

My own club takes the view that as long as you undercoat things, and on a week to week basis make some progress with your painting, then thats fine, otherwise they will ask you to make some progress. I personally would much rather see slow progress over time, and a good overall finish, than having to paint everything and make a mess of it because its a rushed job. I have some experience with this, the first tournament i went to, i decided to leave my painting to literally the last minute. i got it all finished (barely) but the army looked totally AWFUL.

That said, if you don't have time, or simply dont want to paint, thats fine too, but bear in mind, two well painted armies facing each other is quite the visual treat, and lends a force the personal touch that bare plastic and metal just cannot match

It's their tournament. I couldn't care less. If I go into the tournament, I go in agreeing to the terms in place.

A well-painted army should be its own reward. If you do it looking for some sort of extrinsic reward, you're probably not really enjoying the "hobby" aspect that much in the first place.

 Fafnir wrote:
It's their tournament. I couldn't care less. If I go into the tournament, I go in agreeing to the terms in place.

A well-painted army should be its own reward. If you do it looking for some sort of extrinsic reward, you're probably not really enjoying the "hobby" aspect that much in the first place.

The idea would obviously be to encourage painted armies within a club/group with a compromise rather than an outright ban as it is at GTs and in GW stores (at least in the UK).

It's not: "With this house rule in place in my group I will be unbeatable mwahahaahaha"

 Glorioski wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
It's their tournament. I couldn't care less. If I go into the tournament, I go in agreeing to the terms in place.

A well-painted army should be its own reward. If you do it looking for some sort of extrinsic reward, you're probably not really enjoying the "hobby" aspect that much in the first place.

The idea would obviously be to encourage painted armies within a club/group with a compromise rather than an outright ban as it is at GTs and in GW stores (at least in the UK).

It's not: "With this house rule in place in my group I will be unbeatable mwahahaahaha"

It doesn't matter what it does or what it's trying to encourage, because it's still a stupid rule.

Yes I have noted your stand already Fafnir. I was addressing your: "If you do it looking for some sort of extrinsic reward" comment.

I have nerve damage in my arm and any kind of worthwhile painting is an impossibility, leaving me either at the mercy of painting services or friends if I want a painted army. If I want to try units, I'm penalized because of this nerve damage.

Another impossibly smug "oh paint your armies if you have so much time and available skill" piece of utter crap from someone who is looking for another reason to pat themselves on the back for how awesome they are. Please.

Guess what I voted?

In general, I'd be against that. It's easy to say that not painting is lazy. I'm one of those guys that's a slow painter. I take a long time because I'm not very good at it, but I don't want my models to look like crap, either. if I just slapped a basecoat, wash, and highlights on a mini, it might only take me five to ten minutes per model, but it'd look like crap and I'd be more embarrassed to field that than an unpainted mini. Then there's those of us that run lotz o' boyz. You want to penalize me for running a fluffy army instead of the latest GK/DW termie cheese list? Painting 180 boyz takes time.

Unpainted mini = I haven't gotten to it yet. Poorly painted mini = I don't care.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My local FLGS does escalation leagues every so often, and painting is rewarded by a monthly competition with store credit as a prize.

 Fafnir wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Necroshea wrote:
Some people simply don't care to paint. Unless you're a TO, making people have painted armies or suffer penalties just to play a casual game makes you an arse.

Spray base color, put some silver on the gun, wash/dip. You don't have to be an awesome painter, but refusing to make even the most minimal effort to paint your models is just being lazy. And really, also disrespectful to your opponents who probably prefer to play games where everything is painted.

I'd rather not compromise the quality of my models just to please some TFG that demands everything be painted. I don't get many models painted because the ones I do paint take a long time to do, and I rarely have time to paint. It's just as disrespectful to expect me to do a gak job painting just to please someone else.

I voted against for this very reason.

my old GW bought in this rule to motivate people to paint and it was one of the factors for me not going in as much due to the fact that i have a life outside of warhammer and when I paint something I want it to look good, not

Spray base color, put some silver on the gun, wash/dip.

 curran12 wrote:
I have nerve damage in my arm and any kind of worthwhile painting is an impossibility, leaving me either at the mercy of painting services or friends if I want a painted army. If I want to try units, I'm penalized because of this nerve damage.

Another impossibly smug "oh paint your armies if you have so much time and available skill" piece of utter crap from someone who is looking for another reason to pat themselves on the back for how awesome they are. Please.

Guess what I voted?

Can't imagine you know yourself, what with the nerve damage in your arm.

FYI I did present this topic from an unbiased standpoint and don't feel I deserve the personal insult, thanks.