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Hopefully the whole report will be released in the near future leading to a wholesale purge of the national security and political elements of the West who support and carry out these kinds of things. Hopefully this in turn will lead to a more open security service and political body which is less active in violating the rights of its people and those around the world under vague cries of "because terrorism!".
whembly wrote: Keep in mind that the real purpose of this report isn't really to condemn the use of torture, but to allow Senate Democrats to wash their hands of it, to say it wasn’t their fault and they had nothing to do with it.
Pretty sure you've forfeited your right to complain on this forum about that TBH.
Pretty sure I haven't TBH.... you just don't like my politics.
whembly wrote: Keep in mind that the real purpose of this report isn't really to condemn the use of torture, but to allow Senate Democrats to wash their hands of it, to say it wasn’t their fault and they had nothing to do with it.
Pretty sure you've forfeited your right to complain on this forum about that TBH.
Pretty sure I haven't TBH.... you just don't like my politics.
You know there's a reason why Benghazi's almost reached meme-status here on Dakka, right?
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
I assume whembly owns at least one mirror in his house, Walrus.
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
d-usa wrote: It is perfectly possible to be pissed off about this tortute thing for reasons that don't include feeling particularly sorry for the people that were tortured. My personal suspicion is that KM won't particularly shed a tear for the poor unfortunate terrorist that was caught up in this.
I'm guessing that for many folks it is less about "poor murderous terrorists don't deserve to be tortured" and more about "the US is supposed to be better than this". You can be against torture because of what it does to us, and not just because of what it does to other people.
Edit: of course KM could also feel bad for the tortured folks, don't want to exclude that possibility.
I've been tortured. It sucks. and I got the relatively "light" version of this stuff because I was in training, and I always had an "out" if I really needed it. These people did not. I don't feel terribly much compassion for the actual terrorists (who should face a court of law not some CIA gakhead) but I feel very sorry for our agents and the innocents who got tortured.
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Though some of the redacted locations of CIA holding centers can be figured out
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
whembly wrote: Keep in mind that the real purpose of this report isn't really to condemn the use of torture, but to allow Senate Democrats to wash their hands of it, to say it wasn’t their fault and they had nothing to do with it....
Does that make torture OK?
Let's forget the identity of the president who brought it back and agree that torture is bad.
Torture demeans the person doing it as much as the victim.
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
whembly wrote: Keep in mind that the real purpose of this report isn't really to condemn the use of torture, but to allow Senate Democrats to wash their hands of it, to say it wasn’t their fault and they had nothing to do with it....
Does that make torture OK?
That's now what I'm saying.
Let's forget the identity of the president who brought it back and agree that torture is bad.
Why? It's one of the reasons why Bush is so critcised as it happened on his watch.
What I'm saying is that I'm surprised that Obama's DOJ didn't find anyone breaking any laws.
That's all...
I ask this in all seriousness, but have you considered that it might not be all that easy to prosecute (at least publicly) a member of the CIA, especially if they are still an active officer? Also, has the DoJ publicly said that they found that no crimes had been committed by the CIA or its contractors?
I mean, let's be honest, that Central Intelligence Agency isn't exactly know for its transparency...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/16 05:03:34
d-usa wrote: "When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
People (individual contractors/Subject Matter Experts) are coming out talking about how this program starting with KLM (Master Mind of the 9/11 attack(?) getting water boarded. Over ten years so some "aspect" of the program can be talked about.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
What I'm saying is that I'm surprised that Obama's DOJ didn't find anyone breaking any laws.
That's all...
I ask this in all seriousness, but have you considered that it might not be all that easy to prosecute (at least publicly) a member of the CIA, especially if they are still an active officer?
I didn't say it would be easy... but, the CIA answers to Congress and the WhiteHouse. They're not mercenaries.
Also, has the DoJ publicly said that they found that no crimes had been committed by the CIA or its contractors?
Sorta... the Special Prosecutor stated that the admissible evidence wasn't sufficient "to obtain and sustain convictions beyond a reasonable doubt" and that they've since reviewed the full Senate report and said no new information was revealed in determining illegal activity.
So... again... do I trust the Obama Administration (or the Special Prosecutor) in this? Not really... but, I'm very surprised because I EXPECTED the DOJ to charge someone.
I mean, let's be honest, that Central Intelligence Agency isn't exactly know for its transparency...
Of course, it's secretive by design... but, how was the Oversight? The report dosen't really go into details in that, and more importantly, the report doesn't even offer recommendations to address it.
Jihadin wrote: Over ten years so some "aspect" of the program can be talked about.
Greatly depends on the level of classification. If most/all of it was TS, we've still got another 15 years or so to go till there's even a chance of downgrading or declassifying the information.
Of course, it's secretive by design... but, how was the Oversight? The report dosen't really go into details in that, and more importantly, the report doesn't even offer recommendations to address it.
I have not read the report, so cannot speak on if this is true or not.
If it is though, then it's bs. Just a hack job intended to do harm. Complaining is fine, IF you have a fix action to go along with it. If you don't, then keep your mouth shut.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/12/16 15:38:21
Of course, it's secretive by design... but, how was the Oversight? The report dosen't really go into details in that, and more importantly, the report doesn't even offer recommendations to address it.
I have not read the report, so cannot speak on if this is true or not.
If it is though, then it's bs. Just a hack job intended to do harm. Complaining is fine, IF you have a fix action to go along with it. If you don't, then keep your mouth shut.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/12/17 10:36:50
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
Jihadin wrote: James Mitchell came out talking with Megan Kelly
Anyone else watching it? Part 2 tonight
I thought he died in 2010 from pneumonia?
Wrong James Mitchel
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
Dick Cheney on Torture : Is He ‘Righteous Warrior or a Psychopath?’
Its hard to be awesome, when your playing with little plastic men. Welcome to Fantasy 40k
If you think your important, in the great scheme of things. Do the water test.
Put your hands in a bucket of warm water,
then pull them out fast. The size of the hole shows how important you are.
I think we should roll some dice, to see if we should roll some dice, To decide if all this dice rolling is good for the game.
