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Seems strange that the Black Legion ones are more useful.
I rather have rending than 2/3 useless traits in CC. Once there tu still only have 2 attacks base at str 5 with a single close combat weapon. Watch out!
The Black Legion have been around for longer and are more experienced, so it makes sense that their possessed are a bit more badass.
The Black Legion Possessed are MUCH worse, even with Rending.
Crimson Slaughter Possessed only have ways to make it to combat a bit easier. You got Shrouding, becoming a Beast, and getting a 3++. On top of Fleet with that, it can be a plausible T2 charge (granted, if your opponent is terrible). Possessed are a tarpit kinda unit. I don't need them to be entirely killy as they're Fearless.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: The Black Legion Possessed are MUCH worse, even with Rending.
Crimson Slaughter Possessed only have ways to make it to combat a bit easier. You got Shrouding, becoming a Beast, and getting a 3++. On top of Fleet with that, it can be a plausible T2 charge (granted, if your opponent is terrible). Possessed are a tarpit kinda unit. I don't need them to be entirely killy as they're Fearless.
That depends on what you want to use them for. As tarpits? Yea sure, the CS are better.
For those few of us who consider the lack of grenades not a deal breaker, the Black legion ones hit a lot harder in combat. With rending, higher init, higher WS and every mutation causing more wounds in some form or another . All the crimson slaughter guys get once they actually make it into combat is more survivability and you're not going to rely on a 1 in 3 chance to make them get there, so you're putting them in a vehicle either way.
The best formation is the Brethren of the Dark Covenant. You get a large AOE army buff on flexible units. CSM biggest weakness is the lack of ATSKNF, granting them zealot is a big boon. It does put a major bullseye on that apostle however, so you need some plan to hide him. Maybe hide him in a cultist blob with multiple onion like cultist rings acting as bubble wrap from Cult of Slaughter.
Disciples of Mannon is pretty terrible IMHO however, kind of curious why everyones attention so far has been here. In the pop out text it clearly only works one time, so basically you are randomly waiting and hoping for your opponent to roll your number on EXACTLY two dice, something they can actively avoid (roll one less or one more for anything other then LD) if their army is fearless heaven help you.
Worse yet Disciples of Mannon requires a tax of one of the worst and priciest units in the CSM codex, possessed. I feel like your over paying for a tax in order to randomly get something else, you can't even choose what demon type! Just take the sorcerer formation from BL supplement and summon your demons starting turn1 and pick the ones you want lol.
.. why do these all have possessed? I'm actually upset.
It's kind of the whole shtick for the Crimson Slaughter. It would be like questioning the requirement of Plague marines from formations in a hypothetical Death Guard supplement.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/09 19:11:58
You're missing the "Red Onslaught", if you have the other six formations then you subtract 1 leadership from each unit in the enemy army and you're destroyed possessed units can be resummoned on a 4+
I love the fact it states you can use an detachment or formation and make it a crimson slaughter one, is that also in the black legion supplement?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/09 19:28:35
Hmmm... I don't know, these Crimson Slaughter formations are very reliant on how powerful the codex's possessed are. If buff their table, I think some these would be viable. Otherwise, they actually seem kind of lukewarm.
1. Lords of Slaughter:
Assuming the Balestar of Mannon is the same, I don't see that much that this formation brings to the table? Perhaps if the artifacts are new, then maybe it would excellent to trick out your chaos lord and give him and his unit hatred. Otherwise, it's a minor buff and you need to buy possessed.
2. Cult of Slaughter
Look, even if you beef out your cultists, they do practically nothing. Main way to play these guys is as objective takers that are more resilient. A fine unit, but it doesn't bring much power to the CSM table.
3. Brethren of the Dark Covenant
I like the idea of giving the CSM the mark of Nurgle, and bam you have cheaper Plague Marines... However, you cannot overlook you still have to I buy the damn possessed and apostle. The Apostle kind of sucks compared to our other options, let's face it! Hopefully there's a sweet relic for them.
4. Disciples of Mannon
Someone did post a picture that specifically states 'the FIRST" time the result is rolled, summon daemons. So KDK and maelific do this so much better. No possessed and more daemons.
5. Ravagers
It's like a mini version of the Lords of Slaughter, except you don't have to pass a psychic test and you have to take chosen! Wow! Too bad it's hard to get possessed to accomplish anything before they get blown to bits unless they're in a Land Raider.
If possessed get a big buff and become viable, I'd give these formations another look. Otherwise, they're mediocre.
You're missing the "Red Onslaught", if you have the other six formations then you subtract 1 leadership from each unit in the enemy army and you're destroyed possessed units can be resummoned on a 4+
I love the fact it states you can use an detachment or formation and make it a crimson slaughter one, is that also in the black legion supplement?
What is this? How would "stealing" formations even work? This makes no sense to me.
You're missing the "Red Onslaught", if you have the other six formations then you subtract 1 leadership from each unit in the enemy army and you're destroyed possessed units can be resummoned on a 4+
I love the fact it states you can use an detachment or formation and make it a crimson slaughter one, is that also in the black legion supplement?
What is this? How would "stealing" formations even work? This makes no sense to me.
Sorry missed out the CSM bit, you can make any CSM detachment or formation a Crimson Slaughter one, so you can use the warlord traits relics and apply CS rules. Seemed like a bit of future proofing to me and hints that the CSM is due a book with a detachment innit.
Shame about the actual wording on the mammon formation. Looked like a potential big deal when we thought it might be triggerable multiple times per game. 1/games, it's kind of forgettable.
As for why possessed: its the CS's main fluff thing is why. And CS do get an alternate possessed table, which makes them more likely to see combat (2/3 more survivable, 1/3 faster), though they don't hit as hard as regular possessed (and much less hard than BL formation possessed) once they get there.
I don't really fault the unit selections here, honestly, but as with the BL formations, the benefits are mostly too timid to get over the hump of poor design and points inefficiency baked into most of these units.
Off topic wish listing:
Spoiler:
If GW wants people to field more possessed, they should just make possessed good. I'd recommend looking at Wulfen or Death Company for ideas. Otherwise the main issues with CSMs are delivery (lots of melee infantry, little to nothing in assault transports; some deep strikers but little to nothing in scatter mitigation, limited access to rules like infiltrate, scout, etc), and points ineficiency (pay too much base compared to loyalists with a ton of free upgrades, the upgrades chaos does have access to are less good and cost even more points on top).
These ARE things formations COULD fix (terminator formations that don't scatter on deep strike, formations that grant deployment options or extra speed or make upgrades free - the BL khorne formation was a step in that direction), but...
These are problems that really want a real codex update to look at instead (fix base points values, re-assess self defeating rules concepts, add back homing beacon icons & variable vet upgrades including option to infiltrate some units, etc), as well as some new releases in the transport/delivery department (daemonic assault-ramp rhino variant, bigger capacity land raider variant, drop pod with a spikey bit sprue in the box, etc).
bleh, over a decade of this mess and I can STILL get sucked into CSM wish listing so easily..
If loyalists can get free transports, you'd think Black Legion could at least get free vets, right? A rule that had no business costing points in the first place? But no. Oh, well.
I'm calling it right now. WAY stop many possessed in these formations to NOT be coming out with new possessed models soon. Plus they went permanently out of stock.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
The purpose of CSM is to run across the board getting shot up and then lose in combat (preferably in challenges to make the heroes' victory more cinematic). They'll never get good rules as long as the studio views them as a target practice army.
the_scotsman wrote: I'm calling it right now. WAY stop many possessed in these formations to NOT be coming out with new possessed models soon. Plus they went permanently out of stock.
Considering they just printed an AoS book with datasheets for the Bretonnian range which went Last chance to buy BEFORE its release...no, not likely.
the_scotsman wrote: I'm calling it right now. WAY stop many possessed in these formations to NOT be coming out with new possessed models soon. Plus they went permanently out of stock.
No. There are a lot of possessed formations in the crimson slaughter book because Crimson Slaughter's whole deal is possessed. There is all of one possessed formation in the BL book, because they also have fluff tying them to possessed.
If these books were including possessed formations to push a new possessed box, then that possessed box would have come out concurrently with the new supplements, so that they could have pretty pictures of the new models they were supposedly pushing.
Someone send me a link to where I can see this stuff. Do it by pm though. Thanks. Never mind seen them. They look good. Don't know if this makes them tournament winning worthy but its certainly a big boost.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/10 05:19:03
I'm not sure I'd call it a 'big' boost, but it was something, when nothing was expected, so there's only so bitter one can be. Still, it's hard to keep a dispassionate mind about it when at the same time loyalists are getting so much more with their unexpected new supplement, including access to 30k stuff from the battle for calth.
A bit annoying that it's only going to loyalists, when fluff-wise chaos has more access to old 30k gear in the modern era, and word bearers were in that box, too. But whatever.
Hmmmm chaos is too popular and integral to be left for long like Sisters.
There is a theory they want to get rid of Slaanesh from the setting like they did with Age of Sigmar. All of these stories are building up to a large story event.
Allegedly there is going to be a Dark Eldar campaign book or something this year and for a long time there are hints that the Eldar race as a whole have found a way to kill Slaanesh. however the problem with this is their own god would need to be placed there. I think it was the Eldar God of death or something.
Anyways so if that happens which I think is likely then we have to see Chaos revised completely. We also know from reports that Chaos Marines are being worked on and that they are trying to work on whatever the big event for them it likely next year. I think the Eldar god of death being bad for everybody would be a great thing to revitalize Chaos. It lets them move Slaanesh out of the limelight. It lets them pour money into Chaos line to update it and get rid of some old kits and add new stuff for the new god.
This is just my personal theory from information I've gathered. It is based on what people say is solid rumors. Barring the Dark Eldar ones which were rated as fairly poor.
If this exact chain of events doesn't happen something similar enough will happen. Since this is a big task it's taking a long time to get all of the preparation work done.
Malisteen wrote: I'm not sure I'd call it a 'big' boost, but it was something, when nothing was expected, so there's only so bitter one can be. Still, it's hard to keep a dispassionate mind about it when at the same time loyalists are getting so much more with their unexpected new supplement, including access to 30k stuff from the battle for calth.
A bit annoying that it's only going to loyalists, when fluff-wise chaos has more access to old 30k gear in the modern era, and word bearers were in that box, too. But whatever.
30K stuff for Chaos would make sense too, but I'd expect it in a new CSM codex, rather than in either BL or CS supplements. The new SM supplement is basically DLC for the SM codex, while the two chaos ones are specific forces.
Legion: Dark Angels 
