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I don't know many fluff bunnies, because most of us don't respect the fluff in my group.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Most of the necron players (2/3) in my area don't run Decurion because they think it is unfun.

Never assume, because it makes an ass out of you and me!

I assume people are playing their best and not being God awful fluff bunnies. You're not helping your case at all.

Why are fluff bunnies awful? And do I have a case? I'm just having a discussion.

They make discussions terrible. They can't grasp good playing and ultimately do the good old "if you don't like the list don't play it" garbage. It helps nobody.

Also I mistook you for Dantes_Baal or whatever.

I'm offended that you think I make discussions terrible, and I don't think that helps no one. My local play groups in every city I've lived in have used the "If you don't like the list don't play it" mantra, and seem to be doing well! In fact, I'm usually on the receiving end of not-being-played, with my Ordinatus battery. But discussing things ahead of time helps tremendously when I am trying to get a game.

EDIT: Also, this isn't the tactics forum (which I mostly stay away from, since I know fluff isn't usually useful in those sorts of discussions).

GENERAL IN THREAD WARNING - RULE #1 MUST BE FOLLOWED AT ALL TIMES.

To get back on topic, I found Traitor's Hate distinctly average. It's an improvement to CSM (Yay!) but not enough (Boo!). There's a few nice toys there, but not enough to make me want to pick up my CSM again.

How does a 8 man bike squad (unmarked) with an attached Lord and Sorcerer (level 3, fishing for Shrouded and/or Invisibility) sound using the new Chaos Warband benefits?

Force Sword on the Sorcerer, Power Axe on Lord and Bike Champion, and 2 Meltaguns on the bikers?

 Insectum7 wrote:
This reminds me of a situation where I had Tactical marines tarpit a Wraithknight. Internet says "Hurr, can't be done!" Experience says it happens, and it's totally legit.

My Emperor's Champion, uninjured, charged 2 kroot, wiffed completely on his attacks, and failed both armor saves from the Kroots' attacks back. gak happens! Been there! Bought the T-Shirt!

Why wouldn't you Mark the Bikers and Lord as Nurgle?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why wouldn't you Mark the Bikers and Lord as Nurgle?

Because you aren't playing a Nurgle-themed force? Or are you one of those "just take it and say it's bionics" people that try to shoehorn things that don't make sense by saying they are something else entirely to justify taking them?

WayneTheGame wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why wouldn't you Mark the Bikers and Lord as Nurgle?

Because you aren't playing a Nurgle-themed force? Or are you one of those "just take it and say it's bionics" people that try to shoehorn things that don't make sense by saying they are something else entirely to justify taking them?

It is majority T6 though. It is silly not to take it outside the Sorcerer.

@ Kronk the bike unit sounds... interesting. I'd look into it for low points games. Probable my is they arent quite a deathstar, not quite a nimble scoring unit.

I think everyone would be fine with any csm codex if all the models where not from the 1900s oe what ever the feth you call mulators... Looks like they let a fan go ape gak with green stuff on a terminator.

 kronk wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
This reminds me of a situation where I had Tactical marines tarpit a Wraithknight. Internet says "Hurr, can't be done!" Experience says it happens, and it's totally legit.

My Emperor's Champion, uninjured, charged 2 kroot, wiffed completely on his attacks, and failed both armor saves from the Kroots' attacks back. gak happens! Been there! Bought the T-Shirt!

Well, I guess the difference there is expectations. I can reasonably expect five marines to last through a round of combat or two with a WK, but I'd expect the Emperors Champion to at least come out ahead in your scenario.

Although the original comment was really more about the complexities of game context in the first place. With "theoryhammer" Tactical marines aren't even "supposed" to be able to charge a WK in the first place, but that's just not taking the whole picture into account.

I think Chaos suffers a little bit from this. You look at them and think "they're marines, so they should fight like marines." But they're not marines, and as a whole maybe wind up having to fight in different sorts of ways.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why wouldn't you Mark the Bikers and Lord as Nurgle?

Because you aren't playing a Nurgle-themed force? Or are you one of those "just take it and say it's bionics" people that try to shoehorn things that don't make sense by saying they are something else entirely to justify taking them?

It is majority T6 though. It is silly not to take it outside the Sorcerer.

Nurgle bikers are strong but 8 MoN bikes could be 10 unmarked bikes, with a few points to spare. Against S3 or S8+ shooting/CC attacks there's no difference, and the extra bodies aren't just extra wounds but a few extra attacks and shots. I'm not saying unmarked is necessarily better but I don't think the difference isn't so much that MoN is an auto include. The lord has a better argument for the mark though

The sweet spots are S5, 6, and 7, where it DOES make a difference.

That's why you see everyone buying MoN on Spawn (though it is partially to help with ID as well).

 Snake Tortoise wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why wouldn't you Mark the Bikers and Lord as Nurgle?

Because you aren't playing a Nurgle-themed force? Or are you one of those "just take it and say it's bionics" people that try to shoehorn things that don't make sense by saying they are something else entirely to justify taking them?

It is majority T6 though. It is silly not to take it outside the Sorcerer.

Nurgle bikers are strong but 8 MoN bikes could be 10 unmarked bikes, with a few points to spare. Against S3 or S8+ shooting/CC attacks there's no difference, and the extra bodies aren't just extra wounds but a few extra attacks and shots. I'm not saying unmarked is necessarily better but I don't think the difference isn't so much that MoN is an auto include. The lord has a better argument for the mark though

There's also (with Crimson Slaughter) running bikers with MoS and IoE. Mark a biker lord with Mos and toss on Daemonheart and SoC, you get a lord with T5, 2+/4++ plus IWND and FNP.

Icon is too risky as it can be singled out, and T6 helps better avoid being ID'd.

I have been playing a lot of lost and the damned and I find in objective based games it can be downright OP. Although in games of purge the alien or malestrom it is incredibly underwhelming.

To clarify, in objective based games there is a high likelyhood your cultists will wear the enemy down over time, especially if you have them in cover with a 4+ save. Your opponent will either avoid them or try and blow them to pieces, both are advantageous for you. It feels great to have an undying horde.

BUT in purge the alien your screwed, almost an auto loss. With maelstrom of war your opponent can easily wrack up a lot of objective points with your easily murdered units. My opponent wracked up 12 VP 2nd turn on maelstrom of war... he was lucky but the cultists gave him a lot of freedom to get those points.

All in all if your a good player this formation can be an valuble asset if you like a horde based playstyle. Im looking to playtest a whole bunch of CC cultists in the coming weeks, just run them at the enemy and see what happens!

For the above questions about Nurgle, I would only ever mark my Chaos Warband Tzeentch for fluff reasons, but I'd rather them be unmarked. They're more renegades than chaos worshipers. Only the main sorcerer (there are two) worships any of the Chaos Gods/Powers.

Dantes_Baals wrote:
@ Kronk the bike unit sounds... interesting. I'd look into it for low points games. Probable my is they arent quite a deathstar, not quite a nimble scoring unit.

Yeah, I get that it's not terribly powerful as far a deathstars go, but it does move rather fast and would have objective secured. If you can pull off Shrouded and/or invisibility, it could last long enough to get around the table, but it's still only sporting 2 Power Axes (Lord and Champion) and a force sword.

Might not be worth the points, I suppose.

Looks like forgeworld lovers can run a formationof 3 kytans instead of lordsof sculls to insta-kill hordes. They even fit in a 1850 game.