Codex Genestealer Cult

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**Davor**

From Facebook. Didn't see it posted. If it was, sorry I missed it.

The day of reckoning draws near.
Find out more this weekend.

**Agamemnon2**

Kanluwen wrote:
And also, no it's not positive news. If it includes elements from the Guard, then whenever Guard get revamped...those stupid elements will have to stick around

Well, someting like Sentinel and, Chimeras are really not that likely to be done away with.

**Strat_N8**

gungo wrote:

Main points I wanted to include was ymargl don't exist anymore. (But GW can also do what they did with doom and just make a generic version but I doubt it)

They aren't available as a unit anymore, but they are still around in the background. The Tyranid codex included most of their fluff entry in the Genestealer section (restating how the Hive Mind refuses to absorb them and leaves them behind - not sure where you got the idea they were re-absorbed) and they were mentioned by name a couple times in a recent article on Genestealers from the White Dwarf that introduced the Lost Patrol board game.

Still, nothing more than speculation, though I expect the "metamorph" hybrids probably will have Ymgarl-like morphing abilities if nothing else based on that name and precedent.

**GoatboyBeta**

Davor wrote:
From Facebook. Didn't see it posted. If it was, sorry I missed it.

The day of reckoning draws near.
Find out more this weekend.

I was to young to realise it back in the RT days and they have been out of the game for so long I hadn't really given it much thought until recently. But the Stealer cults have a real Lovecraft vibe going on with there (uncaring)star gods and hybrid children.

**Davor**

GoatboyBeta wrote:
Davor wrote:
From Facebook. Didn't see it posted. If it was, sorry I missed it.

The day of reckoning draws near.
Find out more this weekend.

I was to young to realise it back in the RT days and they have been out of the game for so long I hadn't really given it much thought until recently. But the Stealer cults have a real Lovecraft vibe going on with there (uncaring)star gods and hybrid children.

So true. Before I didn't care but until seeing this, I am actually getting excited for this. I really hope GW doesn't drop the ball on this.

**MajorWesJanson**

Agamemnon2 wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
And also, no it's not positive news. If it includes elements from the Guard, then whenever Guard get revamped...those stupid elements will have to stick around

Well, someting like Sentinel and, Chimeras are really not that likely to be done away with.

If the Russ (or some variants of it) are included, it will be fine, as it can be fixed easily by updating the "Heavy" vehicle type.

Including something like Ogryns would be a lot trickier though.

And just because it is borrowed from the Guard does not mean it has to have the same rules. Call it a "cultist sentinel" or "cultist russ" and you can give it different rules, or just use cultist specific vehicle wargear options the way overcharged engines or daemonic posession change the same vehicles in different codices.

**BrookM**

Chances are the units ported over from the Guard codex will be minimal and simple choices to represent PDF equipment. So probably stuff like the infantry platoon, Chimera, Sentinel and maybe the vanilla Leman Russ.

**gungo**

Strat_N8 wrote:
gungo wrote:

Main points I wanted to include was ymargl don't exist anymore. (But GW can also do what they did with doom and just make a generic version but I doubt it)

They aren't available as a unit anymore, but they are still around in the background. The Tyranid codex included most of their fluff entry in the Genestealer section (restating how the Hive Mind refuses to absorb them and leaves them behind - not sure where you got the idea they were re-absorbed) and they were mentioned by name a couple times in a recent article on Genestealers from the White Dwarf that introduced the Lost Patrol board game.

Still, nothing more than speculation, though I expect the "metamorph" hybrids probably will have Ymgarl-like morphing abilities if nothing else based on that name and precedent.

the post patrol is a different timeline. The current Tyranid codex no longer mentions ymargl as existing and instead we now have the new the bio artifact of ymargl factor as in the hive fleet absorbed them and the mutated gene is now part of the hive fleet.

I expect the metamorphs not to have anything to do with ymargl and they are simply gene cult mutants like the aberrants since ymargl also can't become primarchs or grant the genestealer kiss according to lore either.
Furthermore GW is using the term metamorphs because they can't use the term mutant for a unit because marvel owns the rights to the word "mutant". Yea it's silly but true this is why none of the avenger movies call them mutant because fox owns marvels movie rights to the word "mutants" and xmen.

**Iron_Captain**

gungo wrote:
Strat_N8 wrote:
Hmm... Assuming those box names are correct, I wonder if the "metamorph" hybrids are somehow linked to Ymgarl genestealers (given their big thing in the Tyranid 5th edition book was being able to "morph" their bodies at will). I doubt they are linked to Aberrants as hypothesized since Acolytes are the 1st/2nd generation hybrids and don't really share any parts with the existing Aberrants. A new Genestealer kit would also open up the possibility of Ymgarls proper returning as well...

In any event, I can't wait for Saturday! All my Overkill hybrids are painted and eagerly awaiting reinforcements.

There are no more ymargl genestealers.
Fluff wise they were a mutation from an abandoned sect of genestealers that the hive mind didn't want to infect the brood and abandoned the very small subsect of genestealers.
However eventually one of the hive fleets took pity and ate thier biomass and instead of having anymore ymargl mutant genestealers we now have the ymargl trait instead.
However the point of the story is thier are no ymargl genestealers. They are gone.

Metamorph by definition are just various stages of mutation hence metamorphosis.
The current cult designation are just acolytes (hybrid 3/4) bald guys w wierd faces
And neophytes are (hybrid 1/2) showing the genestealer gene possessing multiple arms etcs
Abberrants are simply mutants
Then we got primus and magus w his familiars (these are part of the 4+ gen)
Patriarch and broodlords
First gen stealers aka stealers with lots of spikes and purestrains (those assault from 2in infiltrate stealers)
And basic gene stealers.
That's it no more cult members
Add In a few guard tranports and maybe ground vehicles but nothing from the navy or admech forgeworlds.

You got that the wrong way around. Acolytes are the 1st and 2nd generation hybrids showing many Genestealer characteristics, while the Neophytes are 3rd and 4th generation and look more human. Also, the Primus is 2nd generation, not 4th (note the additional arm and weird head)

**Mr.Church13**

So nid armies will finally have access to fully allied IG tanks, huh?

Makes you wonder why they'd even bother with IG after that.

Seems non Nid IG will be rather weak and pointless once the cults give Nids the full link to the imperial armory.

(God I hate the allies mechanics. Not the time or place I know, but still they just kinda drain the uniqueness out of having different factions)

**gungo**

Iron_Captain wrote:
gungo wrote:
Strat_N8 wrote:
Hmm... Assuming those box names are correct, I wonder if the "metamorph" hybrids are somehow linked to Ymgarl genestealers (given their big thing in the Tyranid 5th edition book was being able to "morph" their bodies at will). I doubt they are linked to Aberrants as hypothesized since Acolytes are the 1st/2nd generation hybrids and don't really share any parts with the existing Aberrants. A new Genestealer kit would also open up the possibility of Ymgarls proper returning as well...

In any event, I can't wait for Saturday! All my Overkill hybrids are painted and eagerly awaiting reinforcements.

There are no more ymargl genestealers.
Fluff wise they were a mutation from an abandoned sect of genestealers that the hive mind didn't want to infect the brood and abandoned the very small subsect of genestealers.
However eventually one of the hive fleets took pity and ate thier biomass and instead of having anymore ymargl mutant genestealers we now have the ymargl trait instead.
However the point of the story is thier are no ymargl genestealers. They are gone.

Metamorph by definition are just various stages of mutation hence metamorphosis.
The current cult designation are just acolytes (hybrid 3/4) bald guys w wierd faces
And neophytes are (hybrid 1/2) showing the genestealer gene possessing multiple arms etcs
Abberrants are simply mutants
Then we got primus and magus w his familiars (these are part of the 4+ gen)
Patriarch and broodlords
First gen stealers aka stealers with lots of spikes and purestrains (those assault from 2in infiltrate stealers)
And basic gene stealers.
That's it no more cult members
Add In a few guard tranports and maybe ground vehicles but nothing from the navy or admech forgeworlds.

You got that the wrong way around. Acolytes are the 1st and 2nd generation hybrids showing many Genestealer characteristics, while the Neophytes are 3rd and 4th generation and look more human. Also, the Primus is 2nd generation, not 4th (note the additional arm and weird head)

Yea I switched them by accident I said that already and the primus is 4th gen according to Lexicon and white dwarf
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Genestealer_Primus

**Imateria**

gungo wrote:
Strat_N8 wrote:
gungo wrote:

Main points I wanted to include was ymargl don't exist anymore. (But GW can also do what they did with doom and just make a generic version but I doubt it)

They aren't available as a unit anymore, but they are still around in the background. The Tyranid codex included most of their fluff entry in the Genestealer section (restating how the Hive Mind refuses to absorb them and leaves them behind - not sure where you got the idea they were re-absorbed) and they were mentioned by name a couple times in a recent article on Genestealers from the White Dwarf that introduced the Lost Patrol board game.

Still, nothing more than speculation, though I expect the "metamorph" hybrids probably will have Ymgarl-like morphing abilities if nothing else based on that name and precedent.
the post patrol is a different timeline. The current Tyranid codex no longer mentions ymargl as existing and instead we now have the new the bio artifact of ymargl factor as in the hive fleet absorbed them and the mutated gene is now part of the hive fleet.

I expect the metamorphs not to have anything to do with ymargl and they are simply gene cult mutants like the aberrants since ymargl also can't become primarchs or grant the genestealer kiss according to lore either.
Furthermore GW is using the term metamorphs because they can't use the term mutant for a unit because marvel owns the rights to the word "mutant". Yea it's silly but true this is why none of the avenger movies call them mutant because fox owns marvels movie rights to the word "mutants" and xmen.

No actually, the current codex specifically mentions that Hive Fleets will deliberatly avoid abosrobing Ymgarl Genestealers, going so far as to devour everything but them on a planet, and that all attempts to wipe them out have failed as they spread further across the galaxy. As for the Ymgarl Factor, it's described as coming across another beast that shares a similar trait but makes no mention of it's origin (probably best to thik of it as being another attempt from the Hive Mind at creating a similar organism) and it being a Bio-Artifact means that it's only ever been ecountered on a single beast once.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

Kanluwen wrote:
gorgon wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
If it includes elements from the Guard, that's good. Should be an interesting dex.

VERY positive news.

Where was there actually any news about it including elements of the Guard?

And also, no it's not positive news. If it includes elements from the Guard, then whenever Guard get revamped...those stupid elements will have to stick around

from the bolter and chainsword post

'- full army list with rules for all units including elements from the Astra Militarum. '

**Dryaktylus**

gungo wrote:

Yea I switched them by accident I said that already and the primus is 4th gen according to Lexicon and white dwarf
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Genestealer_Primus

Well, it was vice versa before, so it's not really an accident. The info in the Lexicanum was wrong, I deleted it (the Primus in DW: Overkill was indeed 2nd generation, but until the codex is out we don't know if this is the norm).

**Kanluwen**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
gorgon wrote:
Verviedi wrote:
If it includes elements from the Guard, that's good. Should be an interesting dex.

VERY positive news.

Where was there actually any news about it including elements of the Guard?

And also, no it's not positive news. If it includes elements from the Guard, then whenever Guard get revamped...those stupid elements will have to stick around

from the bolter and chainsword post

'- full army list with rules for all units including elements from the Astra Militarum. '

The only elements that better be in are Lasguns.

The AM book is bad enough; we don't need to get hamstrung with yet more gak being kept "as is" because they don't want to update the GSC book as well.

**Souleater**

Mr.Church13 wrote:
So nid armies will finally have access to fully allied IG tanks, huh?

Makes you wonder why they'd even bother with IG after that.

Seems non Nid IG will be rather weak and pointless once the cults give Nids the full link to the imperial armory.

(God I hate the allies mechanics. Not the time or place I know, but still they just kinda drain the uniqueness out of having different factions)

I think you're getting a little ahead of things - we've seen one picture so far and have no information on the level of access that GSC may or may not have to IG vehicles or units. As others have said, 'elements of...' probably means basic grunt units that. Possibly basic vehicle load outs for the kind of vehicles that a PDF might reasonably have.

Back in the day, GSC did have access to a very limited amount of IG gear to represent them having infiltrated the local PDF. So allowing them this has little to do with the current allied rules set

I wonder how easy it would be to kitbash together GSC and AdMech for ultimate cybered-up body horror Elder-Gods Worshipping Goodness.

**Kanluwen**

BrookM wrote:
Chances are the units ported over from the Guard codex will be minimal and simple choices to represent PDF equipment. So probably stuff like the infantry platoon, Chimera, Sentinel and maybe the vanilla Leman Russ.

That's pretty lazy if so.

It's long been the fluff that PDFs don't have that stuff, except on highly militarized worlds...y'know, the kinds of worlds where GSCs would not be able to thrive.

**BrookM**

Better that than a complete port, complete with Scions, Abhumans and the like, that would be lazy as feth.

I can see backwater worlds having access to the Leman Russ, Chimera and Sentinel, they are low-tech enough to be accessible to most of the Imperium. Or they could've been shipped in via a stockpile world a-la good old Vraks.

**Hulksmash**

Well considering the fluff had some planets modifying the Leman Russ to run on burning wood (this flexibility being one of the main reasons the Leman Russ is THE tank of the imperium. It's not the best but it's certainly the easiest to build/maintain) so yeah, I think most worlds pdf's have access to the 3 staple vehicles of the Astra Militarum (Sentinels, Leman Russ, and to a lesser extent Chimera's)

**Charax**

BrookM wrote:
Better that than a complete port, complete with Scions, Abhumans and the like, that would be lazy as feth.

Yeah, but that's not excluding the possibility of it actually happening though.
Heretic.
Astartes.
Psychic.
Powers.

BrookM wrote:
I can see backwater worlds having access to the Leman Russ, Chimera and Sentinel, they are low-tech enough to be accessible to most of the Imperium. Or they could've been shipped in via a stockpile world a-la good old Vraks.

The Sentinel is common enough to have logistic/support variants in the Powerlifter, and isn't the Leman Russ one of the few near-complete STCs? so you can basically make them almost anywhere, out of almost anything

**Uriels_Flame**

Will they have access to the Tervigon that can just keep producing Cultist instead of Gaunts????

Good times are upon us!

**MajorWesJanson**

Elements from the AM, I expect mainly vehicles to bulk out the Cultist list- Chimaera, Sentinel, Russ/Exterminator and maybe heavy weapon teams of some sort. That way GSC actually have a heavy support and fast attack section. Similar to how Deathwatch picked up Drop Pods, Land Raiders, and Razorbacks.

**kronk**

Uriels_Flame wrote:
Will they have access to the Tervigon that can just keep producing Cultist instead of Gaunts????

Good times are upon us!

Yes! It spores them out, complete with guns, goggles, and The Warriors outfits!

CAN! YOU! DIG! IT!

Indeed.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MajorWesJanson wrote:
Elements from the AM, I expect mainly vehicles to bulk out the Cultist list- Chimaera, Sentinel, Russ/Exterminator and maybe heavy weapon teams of some sort. That way GSC actually have a heavy support and fast attack section. Similar to how Deathwatch picked up Drop Pods, Land Raiders, and Razorbacks.

I was thinking it would be transports (Chimera, Taurox). Maybe Russ.

We'll see!

**Souleater**

GSC can thrive on militarized worlds - they are sneaky, asymmetrical warfare, types. They lay low and build up their power in secret until their Hive Fleet draws close.

If things go well they could have significant numbers of PDF in their thrall by then. .

In the previous GSC background the cults have sometimes existed for decades...slowly growing in power, insinuating themselves into positions of authority, passing down connections and influence from one generation to the next.

Or building up mass followings amongst the poor and down trodden.

**gorgon**

Kanluwen wrote:
BrookM wrote:
Chances are the units ported over from the Guard codex will be minimal and simple choices to represent PDF equipment. So probably stuff like the infantry platoon, Chimera, Sentinel and maybe the vanilla Leman Russ.

That's pretty lazy if so.

It's long been the fluff that PDFs don't have that stuff, except on highly militarized worlds...y'know, the kinds of worlds where GSCs would not be able to thrive.

Genestealer Cults could access IG/AM vehicles in their 2nd edition army list and in Tim Huckelbery's 3rd edition Citadel Journal list. There's precedent for that stuff being in the army, and I'm not sure why you keep voicing objections to that.

**MajorTom11**

gorgon wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
BrookM wrote:
Chances are the units ported over from the Guard codex will be minimal and simple choices to represent PDF equipment. So probably stuff like the infantry platoon, Chimera, Sentinel and maybe the vanilla Leman Russ.

That's pretty lazy if so.

It's long been the fluff that PDFs don't have that stuff, except on highly militarized worlds...y'know, the kinds of worlds where GSCs would not be able to thrive.

Genestealer Cults could access IG/AM vehicles in their 2nd edition army list and in Tim Huckelbery's 3rd edition Citadel Journal list. There's precedent for that stuff being in the army, and I'm not sure why you keep voicing objections to that.

Agree, there is precedent, just not in model form, but it was always part of the fluff and rules.

**godardc**

Indeed, Leman Russes are often depicted as IG only, and not for the PDF: they have older tanks, like the Malcador, or local ones.
But I can remember at least one story in which a planetary governor had hundreds, if not thousands, of Leman Russes, fighting Chaos insurgents until the Space Marines arrive and finish the work with Land Raiders.
So...

**Iron_Captain**

gungo wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
gungo wrote:
Strat_N8 wrote:
Hmm... Assuming those box names are correct, I wonder if the "metamorph" hybrids are somehow linked to Ymgarl genestealers (given their big thing in the Tyranid 5th edition book was being able to "morph" their bodies at will). I doubt they are linked to Aberrants as hypothesized since Acolytes are the 1st/2nd generation hybrids and don't really share any parts with the existing Aberrants. A new Genestealer kit would also open up the possibility of Ymgarls proper returning as well...

In any event, I can't wait for Saturday! All my Overkill hybrids are painted and eagerly awaiting reinforcements.

There are no more ymargl genestealers.
Fluff wise they were a mutation from an abandoned sect of genestealers that the hive mind didn't want to infect the brood and abandoned the very small subsect of genestealers.
However eventually one of the hive fleets took pity and ate thier biomass and instead of having anymore ymargl mutant genestealers we now have the ymargl trait instead.
However the point of the story is thier are no ymargl genestealers. They are gone.

Metamorph by definition are just various stages of mutation hence metamorphosis.
The current cult designation are just acolytes (hybrid 3/4) bald guys w wierd faces
And neophytes are (hybrid 1/2) showing the genestealer gene possessing multiple arms etcs
Abberrants are simply mutants
Then we got primus and magus w his familiars (these are part of the 4+ gen)
Patriarch and broodlords
First gen stealers aka stealers with lots of spikes and purestrains (those assault from 2in infiltrate stealers)
And basic gene stealers.
That's it no more cult members
Add In a few guard tranports and maybe ground vehicles but nothing from the navy or admech forgeworlds.

You got that the wrong way around. Acolytes are the 1st and 2nd generation hybrids showing many Genestealer characteristics, while the Neophytes are 3rd and 4th generation and look more human. Also, the Primus is 2nd generation, not 4th (note the additional arm and weird head)

Yea I switched them by accident I said that already and the primus is 4th gen according to Lexicon and white dwarf
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Genestealer_Primus

Then the information on Lexicanum is wrong. The datasheet clearly mentions the Primus being 2nd generation, which would also fit with his appearance. 4th generation can pass for human and does no longer have additional arms. That Primus most certainly would not be able to pass for a human...

**kronk**

I still want them to get a limo.

With guns.

**Goresaw**

I'm almost skeptical of the use of imperial guard stuff.

This almost seems counter to the whole 'if we don't make an EXACT model of it, we don't put it in our books'.