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Considering that they definitely were trying to set themselves up as a competitively rewarding game in opposition to GW back when it was a much more exclusively big game in town, IDK, think it was about a more personal thing, since they couldn't compete w/ the bigger guys, so it needed to be directly speaking to the audience, and I think it worked.

MarkNorfolk wrote:

So play like you've got a pair, or put down the metal and go find something made of plastic.

Sure, there's plenty of social reasons to cringe in the rest of the original page one, but the part that gets me every time is the part at the end about plastic, when they're producing so much cheap, soft plastic now.

Also, the bit about the rules being simple bothers me, because they encourage RAW rules-lawyer behavior, reading everything word-by-word, looking for loopholes. I don't think the rules are actually any "tighter" than GW - they just encourage people to read them that way. There's no room for common sense in Warmahordes rules.

In my opinion, as someone who's played the first edition, the remix, and second edition, but not third, is that the designers were never all that good at writing rules without crazy loopholes or event chains, or understanding probability. For balance they rely on having a few patterns that tend to have around the same point costs, and different special rules, and when things stray from those patterns they are rarely balanced well. But they had those nice pewter miniatures, and that attitude, and at least it was something different - a smaller game than WHFB or WH40K, but not so small that it has no character.

And they have to boorish behavior of actually answering any rules questions sometimes within hours. they write their rules using common American English and actually try to make the rules as clear as possible to most people. And you know those RAW rules sometimes you have to just ignore fluff and do things because it's a game mechanic and not a novel.

There's no room for common sense? Really? I mean really? Sometimes when you play a game somethings must be sacrificed for playability but just because it may not fit the picture in your mind doesn't mean it ignores common sense.

Yeah... I'm down on PP for a lot of things, but their rules clarity is still ahead of GW. They occasionally have weird gak, but compared to GW where IIRC it took until 6th to really use keywords and only recently started putting out FAQs quickly?

I mean, could you imagine the knockdown/gang interaction if it happened with GW, you'd be looking at hundreds of pages of arguing over RAI vs RAW, at least PP step in to sort out their cock ups.

PP faltered a bit with the new edition. It was likely released a bit too soon before it was fully baked (which is why Skorne had to be completely redone, the knockdown/gang fiasco and the balance issues). PP is slowly molding it into a well oiled machine. It will just take time.

PP just needs a shot in the arm to energize the community again. I think the new faction will do that in the short term.

Red_Five wrote:
PP is slowly molding it into a well oiled machine. It will just take time.

Had a small chuckle over this. Well oiled machine? When they are following in the footsteps of GW I can't see how they will ever be a well oiled machine. After all getting rid of their forums (if true) for people to discuss openly about Warmahordes and PP? Seems like something GW would do.

Davor wrote:

Red_Five wrote:
PP is slowly molding it into a well oiled machine. It will just take time.

Had a small chuckle over this. Well oiled machine? When they are following in the footsteps of GW I can't see how they will ever be a well oiled machine. After all getting rid of their forums (if true) for people to discuss openly about Warmahordes and PP? Seems like something GW would do.

I meant in terms of the rules and the move with the CID forum. I think PP is figuring the edition out and making it hum.

I agree, they are making a boneheaded mistake with the closure of their own normal forums but I understand why they are doing it. Facebook and other social media outlets are the natural place to promote the game, generate buzz and bury any criticism.

The sad thing is that much of the criticism has helped make the game better. PP's own self reflection and desire to make itself better is what set it apart from GW.

Well the new forum aren't out yet, let's at least wait until Sunday before we start complaining about them.

I... I dunno about that. Their forums were pretty much a hotbed of semantic arguments and fanboys/mods slapping down most criticism, at least while I was active there.

The faction forums were the place to be at, people used to just whine at the flavour of the month on the main forum.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:
I... I dunno about that. Their forums were pretty much a hotbed of semantic arguments and fanboys/mods slapping down most criticism, at least while I was active there.

They could be but there was a wealth of knowledge there as well. Every community has its vocal idiots.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Well the new forum aren't out yet, let's at least wait until Sunday before we start complaining about them.

It is hard not to be pessemistic when they were mass closing threads asking for more info.

Well I'm hoping they went silent because they realised they done pooped up and started getting around to fix it.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Well I'm hoping they went silent because they realised they done pooped up and started getting around to fix it.

Hopefully!

Forums are going to be different but who knows what that means. The actual forum software was really showing its age a year ago, and other companies have had similar downtimes recently to move to more mobile friendly software.

It remains to be seen what the new forums are like, but they're hardly going away completely and as long as the rules forums remain and get regular answers they'll be providing their most important advantage to the system.

As for the rest? Well, obvious things to cut are stuff like the List subforums and things like MonPoc (RIP ) forums. I'll be curious what we see out of L7 and Bodgers on that front as well. On the whole its needed a reorg for at least 3 years now, so there's nothing worth panicking about yet.

To me, the main forums they need are:

- General Discussion/Announcements
- A Forum for each faction with a sub-forum for lists
- A Warmachine/Hordes Rules Questions forum
- A forum for any other game they make (with a rule question sub-forum, if necessary)
- A modeling/Painting/Hobby Forum

That would be my "core" group of forums. Everything after that is frosting.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Well I'm hoping they went silent because they realised they done pooped up and started getting around to fix it.

I'm sure they went silent for most of a week because they have a HUGE database of posts they are transitioning in to a new style. It wouldn't surprise me if it was under a new system as well. Too which, it is easier to transition when someone isn't adding on to the pile at the same time.

Any statements of the forum dying is not but wishful thinking on the parts of some at this time.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Well at least my username is the same.

 Swampmist wrote:
Same here, and maybe the influx will bring this forum up the rungs a bit

Thirded... well... ya know, less the whole Mod part.

Also, fwiw, though i'm a mod over there, i have just as much idea as what's going on or what sunday / monday / whenever brings as you guys.

 welshhoppo wrote:
The faction forums were the place to be at, people used to just whine at the flavour of the month on the main forum.

Yeah I'll be sad if I lose my Minions forum

On the plus side, I'll finally talk about Warmahordes on Dakka . PP is crazy!!

Edit:

 Haight wrote:
Also, fwiw, though i'm a mod over there, i have just as much idea as what's going on or what sunday / monday / whenever brings as you guys.

Oh man, now that really is crazy! Hopefully it works out well for those of you really invested in it (although honestly, what PP gamer isn't, tons of knowledge was only on the forum).

It's nice to see some familiar names. Usually feels like a ghost town here.

Also, maybe we should make a dedicated thread for this topic, since we've diverged from what this one was originally about. Does someone want to make one, ideally with a copy of PP's announcement (I didn't save it, and my link leads to the forum maintenance page) about reworking their forums?

If you do, post a link here and then I'll lock this one up so we can discuss there. Thanks!

Edit: I've found the announcement and made a new thread for it, see here:

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/719651.page#9231952